Changes such as this are never requested by the community. However, it makes encounters easier to design around. Medpacs are the emergency, going to die, need health instantly type item. Being able to use them several times throughout the fight mitigates the encounter. This type of change was required for balance.

Why did they even have the ability to take more than one per fight in the first place then? Poor design?

So.. our mercs, snipers, tanks, dps operatives are all Nightmare geared and capable, our healers are all columi geared so they are hardmode geared. How is that right,? Should we just run hm ops. Because RNG is stupid?

There arent even options to purchase Rakata gear. We just keep running the zones and telling our healers "sorry" no loot for you again. And because of no loot for you, no progression for the guild.

Wait, so you're telling me your whole raid is mostly rakata EXCEPT your healers, who are all columi geared at least, and the medpacks are the diff between wipe and no wipe? Uhh I am a bit skeptical that that is the make it or break it element.

And yeah, run it in HM. What are you even getting extra in nightmare mode besides pride? An extra mount off the last bosses? lol

I'd just like to point out, firstly, I do not have a lvl 50 character. Not yet anyways. I play an imperial agent sniper, and have not yet gotten to Taris so I don't "Get" my healer companion. As well as a sith Juggernaught, {immortal spec} post act 1. So Yes, I have a few issues with the whole "medpac" nerfing.

Snipers do not get a heal. Period. We get to throw out DPS like no ones business, which is great, if we're grouped with a healer or another DPS'er and can close out the fight quickly. But I have seen fights drag on, and on, and on. I make regular use of medpacks because I AM still learning the game, and probably will continue to do so because their my one heal outside of using a dedicated healer companion.

So I guess I should just go **** off since I don't know how to play/am a casual player, and can't make use of an item designed to allow you to survive a fight?

I guess all sith warriors, jedi knights, imperial agent/snipers, and smuggler/gunslingers should just use their respective protocol droids until they get their dedicated companion healer, or never bother to solo anything. Since none of them get a "Heal" and it makes soloing near impossible if your not someone who's sunk thousands of hours into the game, and still generally learning the ropes.

What about level 1-10 players? What if they don't have a group? They don't even get their COMPANION. I've done the starting zones enough times to know that until I got my companions, medpacs were a constant for me, and I always made sure to have at least 5 on me.

This doesn't help the game in any way shape or form except for those hardcore chest-pounders who think not using medpacs makes them "Godlike" Which is all fine and dandy, unless you're a casual player. Pandering to one group over any other will just result in the death of the game, just look at what happened to SWG which pandered to the casuals over any other group.

A lot of the time I'm either on my sith warrior {juggernaught immortal} or my imperial agent, and paled up with a healer. And I still make use of medpacs and the healing companions if we're doing quests at our tier/above us because a medpac can equate the difference between wiping and surviving. Just because I chose to use a resource that increases my survivability without relying purely on a healer class, doesnt make me a bad player, it makes me a smart player.

Edit: One last thing, everyone seems to be taking into account if your 6+ levels higher then the zone your supposed to be in, if your grouped up and geared perfectly, or if your end-game. No ones taking into account new players, low level players who are still learning the ropes, solo-runners, people who are still trying to figure out how to play X-class. This change only hurts them, and add's "bragging" rights to the elitest top-tier players who have run through the levels so many times they know exactly how to do everything. But for a first time player, a few medpacs can be the game-changer that prevent a boss-wipe on the "Elite four" on Mandalorian raiders, who re-pop if you wipe.

I'd just like to point out, firstly, I do not have a lvl 50 character. Not yet anyways. I play an imperial agent sniper, and have not yet gotten to Taris so I don't "Get" my healer companion. As well as a sith Juggernaught, {immortal spec} post act 1. So Yes, I have a few issues with the whole "medpac" nerfing.

 

Snipers do not get a heal. Period. We get to throw out DPS like no ones business, which is great, if we're grouped with a healer or another DPS'er and can close out the fight quickly. But I have seen fights drag on, and on, and on. I make regular use of medpacks because I AM still learning the game, and probably will continue to do so because their my one heal outside of using a dedicated healer companion.

 

So I guess I should just go **** off since I don't know how to play/am a casual player, and can't make use of an item designed to allow you to survive a fight?

 

I guess all sith warriors, jedi knights, imperial agent/snipers, and smuggler/gunslingers should just use their respective protocol droids until they get their dedicated companion healer, or never bother to solo anything. Since none of them get a "Heal" and it makes soloing near impossible if your not someone who's sunk thousands of hours into the game, and still generally learning the ropes.

 

What about level 1-10 players? What if they don't have a group? They don't even get their COMPANION. I've done the starting zones enough times to know that until I got my companions, medpacs were a constant for me, and I always made sure to have at least 5 on me.

 

This doesn't help the game in any way shape or form except for those hardcore chest-pounders who think not using medpacs makes them "Godlike" Which is all fine and dandy, unless you're a casual player. Pandering to one group over any other will just result in the death of the game, just look at what happened to SWG which pandered to the casuals over any other group.

 

A lot of the time I'm either on my sith warrior {juggernaught immortal} or my imperial agent, and paled up with a healer. And I still make use of medpacs and the healing companions if we're doing quests at our tier/above us because a medpac can equate the difference between wiping and surviving. Just because I chose to use a resource that increases my survivability without relying purely on a healer class, doesnt make me a bad player, it makes me a smart player.

 

Edit: One last thing, everyone seems to be taking into account if your 6+ levels higher then the zone your supposed to be in, if your grouped up and geared perfectly, or if your end-game. No ones taking into account new players, low level players who are still learning the ropes, solo-runners, people who are still trying to figure out how to play X-class. This change only hurts them, and add's "bragging" rights to the elitest top-tier players who have run through the levels so many times they know exactly how to do everything. But for a first time player, a few medpacs can be the game-changer that prevent a boss-wipe on the "Elite four" on Mandalorian raiders, who re-pop if you wipe.

Let's see....I leveled to 50 on an IA (my first - I was a new player then), including completing all class stories solo, and finishing total class story at 46 (dinged 47 AFTER making the final decisions and AFTER the final penultimate fight). Didn't use medpacks.

The only problems I had were trying to complete quests that were too far ahead of my level (misses) and the bugged chapter 1 boss fight that took me a few tries to figure out how to get past the bugs.

I've also leveled a SW to 40 with no problems.

Do I feel this makes me a great player or make me think I am 'god' like as you state? No.

I just play the damn game and don't do stupid stuff like stand in fire while doing smart things like using stuns, cc, interrupts while also leveraging terrain and LOS to my advatange.

So maybe it makes me a smart player, I dunno. I don't really feel like I am doing anything special.

But my point is that medpacks are not required to do anything in this game, and while I believe most everyone has the potential to deal with this, those that can't or won't probably should go play another game, because this one isn't difficult, and this change isn't really going to make it substantially more difficult.

And to the poster who said it was only the 1% or something that will be able to do hard / nightmare without medpacks, I seriously doubt that.

But I also have no problem with only players who pay attention and manage to the content mechanics being able to complete hard and nightmare mode. If you can't or won't step up your game play, story mode is for you.

hahaha this thread is STILL going?

/facepalm

I'd just like to point out, firstly, I do not have a lvl 50 character. Not yet anyways. I play an imperial agent sniper, and have not yet gotten to Taris so I don't "Get" my healer companion. As well as a sith Juggernaught, {immortal spec} post act 1. So Yes, I have a few issues with the whole "medpac" nerfing.

 

Snipers do not get a heal. Period. We get to throw out DPS like no ones business, which is great, if we're grouped with a healer or another DPS'er and can close out the fight quickly. But I have seen fights drag on, and on, and on. I make regular use of medpacks because I AM still learning the game, and probably will continue to do so because their my one heal outside of using a dedicated healer companion.

 

So I guess I should just go **** off since I don't know how to play/am a casual player, and can't make use of an item designed to allow you to survive a fight?

 

I guess all sith warriors, jedi knights, imperial agent/snipers, and smuggler/gunslingers should just use their respective protocol droids until they get their dedicated companion healer, or never bother to solo anything. Since none of them get a "Heal" and it makes soloing near impossible if your not someone who's sunk thousands of hours into the game, and still generally learning the ropes.

 

What about level 1-10 players? What if they don't have a group? They don't even get their COMPANION. I've done the starting zones enough times to know that until I got my companions, medpacs were a constant for me, and I always made sure to have at least 5 on me.

 

This doesn't help the game in any way shape or form except for those hardcore chest-pounders who think not using medpacs makes them "Godlike" Which is all fine and dandy, unless you're a casual player. Pandering to one group over any other will just result in the death of the game, just look at what happened to SWG which pandered to the casuals over any other group.

 

A lot of the time I'm either on my sith warrior {juggernaught immortal} or my imperial agent, and paled up with a healer. And I still make use of medpacs and the healing companions if we're doing quests at our tier/above us because a medpac can equate the difference between wiping and surviving. Just because I chose to use a resource that increases my survivability without relying purely on a healer class, doesnt make me a bad player, it makes me a smart player.

 

Edit: One last thing, everyone seems to be taking into account if your 6+ levels higher then the zone your supposed to be in, if your grouped up and geared perfectly, or if your end-game. No ones taking into account new players, low level players who are still learning the ropes, solo-runners, people who are still trying to figure out how to play X-class. This change only hurts them, and add's "bragging" rights to the elitest top-tier players who have run through the levels so many times they know exactly how to do everything. But for a first time player, a few medpacs can be the game-changer that prevent a boss-wipe on the "Elite four" on Mandalorian raiders, who re-pop if you wipe.

I'm sorry to say this but you're probably just a bad player...which, I guess in a way, you freely admit. But keeping them in would be pandering to your class of players at the expense of tightening up endgame content for a lot of other players. You yourself said choosing one group of people over another is not great. Unfortunately, getting better at the game to not need a medpack more than once a fight is probably easier to do...

I have leveled characters, and I generally did content way earlier than I was supposed to. I needed medpacks at times for sure (well before having a healer companion), but not multiple times in a fight! That is quite rare. How do your general fights last more than 90 sec? Are you auto-attacking the whole time? lol

I don't care one way or another what BW does with medpacs here -- I am just shocked that so many people do lol. I could not have given it more than two thoughts. The game honestly is as easy as can be for leveling up. I hate saying this but L2P better -- not having the medpacs in the situation will probably make you a better player over time (faster). Learn to kite a little, let your companion take aggro first, do sidequests instead of skipping them, etc.

I'd just like to point out, firstly, I do not have a lvl 50 character. Not yet anyways. I play an imperial agent sniper, and have not yet gotten to Taris so I don't "Get" my healer companion. As well as a sith Juggernaught, {immortal spec} post act 1. So Yes, I have a few issues with the whole "medpac" nerfing.

 

Snipers do not get a heal. Period. We get to throw out DPS like no ones business, which is great, if we're grouped with a healer or another DPS'er and can close out the fight quickly. But I have seen fights drag on, and on, and on. I make regular use of medpacks because I AM still learning the game, and probably will continue to do so because their my one heal outside of using a dedicated healer companion.

 

So I guess I should just go **** off since I don't know how to play/am a casual player, and can't make use of an item designed to allow you to survive a fight?

 

I guess all sith warriors, jedi knights, imperial agent/snipers, and smuggler/gunslingers should just use their respective protocol droids until they get their dedicated companion healer, or never bother to solo anything. Since none of them get a "Heal" and it makes soloing near impossible if your not someone who's sunk thousands of hours into the game, and still generally learning the ropes.

 

What about level 1-10 players? What if they don't have a group? They don't even get their COMPANION. I've done the starting zones enough times to know that until I got my companions, medpacs were a constant for me, and I always made sure to have at least 5 on me.

 

This doesn't help the game in any way shape or form except for those hardcore chest-pounders who think not using medpacs makes them "Godlike" Which is all fine and dandy, unless you're a casual player. Pandering to one group over any other will just result in the death of the game, just look at what happened to SWG which pandered to the casuals over any other group.

 

A lot of the time I'm either on my sith warrior {juggernaught immortal} or my imperial agent, and paled up with a healer. And I still make use of medpacs and the healing companions if we're doing quests at our tier/above us because a medpac can equate the difference between wiping and surviving. Just because I chose to use a resource that increases my survivability without relying purely on a healer class, doesnt make me a bad player, it makes me a smart player.

 

Edit: One last thing, everyone seems to be taking into account if your 6+ levels higher then the zone your supposed to be in, if your grouped up and geared perfectly, or if your end-game. No ones taking into account new players, low level players who are still learning the ropes, solo-runners, people who are still trying to figure out how to play X-class. This change only hurts them, and add's "bragging" rights to the elitest top-tier players who have run through the levels so many times they know exactly how to do everything. But for a first time player, a few medpacs can be the game-changer that prevent a boss-wipe on the "Elite four" on Mandalorian raiders, who re-pop if you wipe.

I think people are missing the point of the argument myself and others are making. We're not saying you're bad for using medpacs on CD. Quite the contrary (at least for me), I feel rather stupid for not having noticed before now that I *wasn't* limited to one per fight. What we're arguing is that the points being made by those in support of retaining multiple medpacs per fight are generally specious.

"I want to be able to do content that is higher than my level so Bioware is obligated to retain the game mechanic that has allowed me to do this." No they aren't.

"The game is full of bugs and therefore I can't complete content without being able to use medpacs on CD." Nope, many of us have, and not just uber-super-players. Casuals, like myself, who hasn't set foot in a HM Op.

"Content is currently balanced in such a way that using medpacs on CD is pretty much mandatory for HM/NiM Ops and Warzones." Again, many people are reporting this is not the case. However, even if it were, it's impossible to tell for certain until there is comparative data without medpacs usable on CD.

Again, no one is insulting people who want this mechanic to remain unchanged, we are simply arguing that we do not agree with your opinions which you insist on presenting as fact. Sorry, we're not going to either.

Wait, so you're telling me your whole raid is mostly rakata EXCEPT your healers, who are all columi geared at least, and the medpacks are the diff between wipe and no wipe? Uhh I am a bit skeptical that that is the make it or break it element.

 

And yeah, run it in HM. What are you even getting extra in nightmare mode besides pride? An extra mount off the last bosses? lol

Well as the tank on jarg in the jarg and sorno fight i can tell you that without medpacks which i count on as a cd i could not make it through. My healers who are skilled.. cant keep me off my 5 cd's one of which being the medpack. If you are skeptical then surely you do not know what kind of punishment jarg can put on a tank in Nightmare

As to why run nightmare, well we can run hm in about an hour because its way to easy and i barely get hit at all. Also we have to be able to run NM Karaggas to get Black Hole comms for 1.2

Here are the cd's i use

Medpack- Rakata

class ability shield

Class ability shield

Rakata Adrenal for armor

Relic that pops 300 defenss

interesting. wow made this change 4 years or so ago. people still seem to be clearing content over there though. funny that...

 

stay out of the fire and you'll be fine.

I tried it briefly before the last expansion. I got to level 3 and just didn't like the atmosphere of the game.

That aside I just enjoy the freedom of being able to use them if I want to. I like doing coteng under leveled. It's more fun.

 

Guarantee the majority of the players in this game use medpacks when they're low and haven't seen a heal from the healer. Oh**** moments happen, being a proactive player and helping shouldn't be removed because of "elitist" guilds that abuse the 90s on specific fights.

Exactly.

In my entire playtime in SW:ToR, I've never had to pop more then one medpack in a fight. So really this has to do with endgame mechanics and making the items much more strategic and less of a security blanket.

 

Good job Bioware, keep it up.

Did you ever challenge yourself trying to take on tougher mobs? I doubt you have if you have never had to use more than one.

I know several fights where I thought I'm going to try this anyway even though its Gold/white border. They were tough fights and a great challenge, and using multiple medpacks was necessary. It didn't diminish the content at all, it made it possible to for those of us that like to push the envelope be able to do so.

It also made it possible to do some things without having to rely on healer companions. Variety in how you do a fight instead of cookie cutter. I don't want to be forced to have the ship's droid out.

Georg, does this mean stealth classes can use their "get out of combat" CD, pop a medpack, then get right back to it? Seems like a real advantage for stealth classes.

Yeah I have to wonder if they forgot about this. In boss fights they'll still be able to do this unless the ability gets disabled somehow (which would be another terrible idea).

And the Cool down on those abilities isn't that long.

We are still in discussions to restore pre-level 50 medpacs to their previous condition to avoid negatively affecting the PvE game during the leveling process for people that heavily rely on medpacs.

Good. This was my concern. I rarely (if ever) use medpacks in endgame but I use them all the time while leveling toons.

Well as the tank on jarg in the jarg and sorno fight i can tell you that without medpacks which i count on as a cd i could not make it through. My healers who are skilled.. cant keep me off my 5 cd's one of which being the medpack. If you are skeptical then surely you do not know what kind of punishment jarg can put on a tank in Nightmare

 

As to why run nightmare, well we can run hm in about an hour because its way to easy and i barely get hit at all. Also we have to be able to run NM Karaggas to get Black Hole comms for 1.2

 

Here are the cd's i use

 

Medpack- Rakata

class ability shield

Class ability shield

Rakata Adrenal for armor

Relic that pops 300 defenss

That didn't really address my question

Did you ever challenge yourself trying to take on tougher mobs? I doubt you have if you have never had to use more than one.

 

 

I know several fights where I thought I'm going to try this anyway even though its Gold/white border. They were tough fights and a great challenge, and using multiple medpacks was necessary. It didn't diminish the content at all, it made it possible to for those of us that like to push the envelope be able to do so.

 

It also made it possible to do some things without having to rely on healer companions. Variety in how you do a fight instead of cookie cutter. I don't want to be forced to have the ship's droid out.

I did, and I also never had to use a medpac more than once in a fight. In fact, I was always 3-4 levels below each planet on my alts (due to skipping sidequests), which made some fights really hard. But it was fun -- I came up with creative solutions to beating them. So hey, if you enjoy challenging yourself for the hell of it and "pushing the envelope lol" ...and are sad that medpacs may not work that way anymore, well then rejoice! For now you may challenge yourself FURTHER in the same scenario and come up with even more fun, creative solutions to succeed. BW requires no thanks.

That didn't really address my question

I don't think you read your own question ?

here is what I wrote..

Originally Posted by Jholiday

So.. our mercs, snipers, tanks, dps operatives are all Nightmare geared and capable, our healers are all columi geared so they are hardmode geared. How is that right,? Should we just run hm ops. Because RNG is stupid?

There arent even options to purchase Rakata gear. We just keep running the zones and telling our healers "sorry" no loot for you again. And because of no loot for you, no progression for the guild.

Here's what you wrote

Wait, so you're telling me your whole raid is mostly rakata EXCEPT your healers, who are all columi geared at least, and the medpacks are the diff between wipe and no wipe? Uhh I am a bit skeptical that that is the make it or break it element.

And yeah, run it in HM. What are you even getting extra in nightmare mode besides pride? An extra mount off the last bosses? lol

Here's what i responded with, I have highlighted relevant responses for you.

Originally Posted by Jholiday

Well as the tank on jarg in the jarg and sorno fight i can tell you that without medpacks which i count on as a cd i could not make it through. ]My healers who are skilled.. cant keep me off my 5 cd's one of which being the medpack. If you are skeptical then surely you do not know what kind of punishment jarg can put on a tank in Nightmare

 

 

As to why run nightmare, well we can run hm in about an hour because its way to easy and i barely get hit at all. Also we have to be able to run NM Karaggas to get Black Hole comms for 1.2

 

Here are the cd's i use

 

Medpack- Rakata

class ability shield

Class ability shield

Rakata Adrenal for armor

Relic that pops 300 defenss

Also an idea I have to offer and something to think about.

They nerfed the Rakata Medpack twice already.

First time they dropped the overall effect of the medpack and added HOT

Second they took away the HOT and gave us a useless hp increase.

Now for a tank like me who sits between 23-24k hp , A 4,375 crit medpack is only 1/5th of my overall HP it is a small help at best.

Why not limit it to once per combat situation and give it a guaranteed 1/3 hp fill like the PvP medpack. It would scale appropriately based on class. My tank would get 7,666 and my Merc would get 6,300 hp or how about 1/4 of your total HP and a HOT of 2,000

I don't think you read your own question ?

 

here is what I wrote..

 

 

 

Here's what you wrote

 

 

 

Here's what i responded with, I have highlighted relevant responses for you.

I still don't see it (and my question was it was the difference between wipe or no wipe/death or not death is a fair replacement). Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by "can't keep me off my cooldowns."

And I remain skeptical that, even for Jarg nightmare mode, your ability to use the medpac an extra 2 times during the whole encounter is what is the difference between getting past it or not (maybe your skilled healers can just throw an extra heal or two to compensate).

I did, and I also never had to use a medpac more than once in a fight. .

What class are you? Which companions were you using? What mob level? I'm specifically talking about non-healing companions, on a non-healing character.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The way some Heroic 2+ missions are designed now, they are designed for this model on the bosses. Are they going to be adjusted? They are suppose to be done with two players, or challenging for 1 and a companion.

There are many now I don't see them possible anymore with 1 player and a companion even if the companion is a healer.

Seems this guideline no longer applies. If I couldn't find a group I'd at least try a lot of 2+s on my own. Now I not sure it is even worth the effort. And it will hurt people at lower levels more so as the average character level gets higher as the game progresses, and there are fewer people in the lower level areas.

This is one of the worst threads on the PTS forum. This change just simply makes sense. Using multiple medpacs in a single encounter leaves the door open for LoSing bosses, chugging medpacs, avoiding enrage timers, etc. etc. etc. etc.

And introducing this rule changes just leaves the door open for the exact same behavior in PvP using stealth mechanics. Overall this was not a well thought out rule change.

interesting. wow made this change 4 years or so ago. people still seem to be clearing content over there though. funny that...

 

stay out of the fire and you'll be fine.

The WoW medpacks actually heal 25-30% of your health, sometimes more. The rakata medpack heals like a crusty terd.

The WoW medpacks actually heal 25-30% of your health, sometimes more. The rakata medpack heals like a crusty terd.

25% if you're a priest in blues maybe...

Overall this was not a well thought out rule change.

Totally agreed. If it made HM FP and Operations trivial - they could add that rule only there and leave general PvE alone. Horrible decision.

how can they design challenging fights around players being able to just pop medpacks every 90 seconds

 

deal with it bub

I have played SWTOR alone since day 1. The long cooldown time for using pots makes some missions insanely difficult to play without a party. What can I say, most of the time I play alone. And I like adventuring alone without anyone telling me where to go. Now I am really stuck and I believe I must play the mission I have now to continue. If I cannot find aomeone to help me. I will quit playing altogether.