great for you, I for example have just got to 600k today. Got all my columi so now have to work on getting Rakata.... with this new repair bill and my time difference (live in Russia) finding well geared people willing to run me through a HM OPS has become close to impossible

I can understand that. I suppose it depends on what you want to do when you play. Even gathering mats along the way, should that fit with your RP character, can generate a wealth of credits. My point was to highlight all of the means to earn credits - beyond just dailies - so that players upset by this can make it affect them less, and not allow it to infringe on their enjoyment, unless they'd rather stop playing all together.

your "suggestions" (seemed more like condescending assertions to me) are nothing new and does not address the main point - that having to do them takes time away from the things that I actually want to do

I like doing HM flashpoints and the occasional ops. I also sometimes buy stuff on the gtn (occasionally playi t for profit but not very good) and also like to be able to support alts in gearing so I dont have to re-play all the bonus missions on planets to have enough credits.

The point is - the way to make credits is to grind or WORK. Previously i could just do what i want and still make some credits. Now the repair costs mean that im spending more for repairs than im earning for running a FP. how is that right??

and stop constantly repeating that repairs cost more pre 1.2... so what? it is irrelevant!

they nerfed a lot of the credit rewards and loot drops since 1.2

and even if they didnt, the reason that they reduced costs in 1.2 was because they were ridiculously high in the first place!

its like having a car with 4 square tyres, changing them to round (1.2) then now suddenly changing them to hexagons (1.7)

your "suggestions" (seemed more like condescending assertions to me) are nothing new and does not address the main point - that having to do them takes time away from the things that I actually want to do

 

I like doing HM flashpoints and the occasional ops. I also sometimes buy stuff on the gtn (occasionally playi t for profit but not very good) and also like to be able to support alts in gearing so I dont have to re-play all the bonus missions on planets to have enough credits.

 

The point is - the way to make credits is to grind or WORK. Previously i could just do what i want and still make some credits. Now the repair costs mean that im spending more for repairs than im earning for running a FP. how is that right??

 

and stop constantly repeating that repairs cost more pre 1.2... so what? it is irrelevant!

 

they nerfed a lot of the credit rewards and loot drops since 1.2

 

and even if they didnt, the reason that they reduced costs in 1.2 was because they were ridiculously high in the first place!

 

its like having a car with 4 square tyres, changing them to round (1.2) then now suddenly changing them to hexagons (1.7)

OK we get it you want to play the game your way, not the way the developers intend it to be played. I'd like the ability to solo HM EC but I don't scream and stamp my feet.

your "suggestions" (seemed more like condescending assertions to me) are nothing new and does not address the main point - that having to do them takes time away from the things that I actually want to do

 

I like doing HM flashpoints and the occasional ops. I also sometimes buy stuff on the gtn (occasionally playi t for profit but not very good) and also like to be able to support alts in gearing so I dont have to re-play all the bonus missions on planets to have enough credits.

 

The point is - the way to make credits is to grind or WORK. Previously i could just do what i want and still make some credits. Now the repair costs mean that im spending more for repairs than im earning for running a FP. how is that right??

 

and stop constantly repeating that repairs cost more pre 1.2... so what? it is irrelevant!

 

they nerfed a lot of the credit rewards and loot drops since 1.2

 

and even if they didnt, the reason that they reduced costs in 1.2 was because they were ridiculously high in the first place!

 

its like having a car with 4 square tyres, changing them to round (1.2) then now suddenly changing them to hexagons (1.7)

It probably was condescending, as it would seem the forums lack a general rationality on occasion. To me, it's a simple thing to work around, and if I don't want to do it, I won't. So I can't relate, and thus offered suggestions, in case the individuals were struggling to find a means to generate credits.

This is a result of having played a few other MMOs, and in all of them feeling like I never generated enough cash. Whether their economies had just bottomed out, or it was an earnings:sinks ratio imbalance. With this game, it seemed as though (once I got on a sizable server) I had every opportunity to earn credits the way I wanted. I'm not super pumped about dailies, it's just a quick and simple solution for me personally. Perhaps tonight's maintenance will readjust the repair costs?

I think it may have some benefits, frankly - perhaps now, the in-game economy won't consist of selling 80% of items below vendor price, as people will want the credits. Which would result in increased earnings from selling goods/loot/etc, and less dependence on things like dailies.

I'm curious as to what loot/rewards were reduced after 1.2? I know they changed the PvP dailies, but I didn't notice a change in other rewards at that point. Chests have always pretty much had garbage, but other than that, I have no idea.

They were ridiculously high. And they lowered them, not because they were high, but because they introduced a new credit sink (legacy). The issue is that the code failed to take into account the level/quality of mods, and as such, it is still effectively lowered.

It's like paying $2,000 for car repairs, getting a discounted invoice for $500, and then receiving a corrected invoice for $800, because the system bugged and didn't charge you for parts. Which are still discounted.

Or getting charged a 25% rate, then receiving a reduced rate of 8%, and then having it corrected to 12.5% because of an error that wasn't accounting for your account or property value. Or something along those lines. It's still a significant savings, and that's why I mention it. Had the error not occurred, the community wouldn't be in uproar over it, but would appreciate that they opted to make a reduction.

My point being, there are other ways to work around it. If you don't want to, don't. But for the vocal majority here, there are many who aren't upset about this. I don't know that it's going to change, as the announcement sounded pretty firm, so I suppose it's a question of whether you're willing to make an effort to find fun in other aspects of the game, and play in consideration of the consequences of death/significant damage, or cut your losses. I'm just not aware of any current major MMOs that are less punishing in terms of currency:sink balance.

Edit:

My repairs for running the Ilum world bosses 4 times were 3,000 credits in full Campaign gear.

My repairs for 16m SM Xenoanalyst, and 16m HM Xenoanalyst were 196 credits.

indeed on Ilum itself the repairs I had were low cost, not even exceeding a 1000 credits.

But I guess the point here is about raiding repairs.

Nevertheless, I have hard time to even accept the concept of credit sinks, time sinks, or any other sinks.

I just do not like it.

it disturbs the play experience.

I begin to understand MMOs have such features, but for what reason, it's a mystery to me.

Any other games rather don't have that features extended to that level, but again, i have never played any MMO before.

I just did my Dailies for my BH geared Commando. This does not include Heroics as I usually skip them unless I am helping someone else.

I started with my armor of both myself and my companion at 100% and with 31812 credits on this character. I didn't do any repairs until I finished the last quest on Belsavis and did my turn ins.

Ilum = 5 quests

Elapsed time from landing on Ilum to leaving it for The Black Hole = 27 minutes

Left with 91,298 credits

The Black Hole = 5 quests

Elapsed time from landing to leaving for Belsavis = 14 minutes

left with 136,468 credits

Belsavis regular dailies = 8 quests (yes I know there is another, I usually skip it as it's out of my fast tack path)

Elapsed time from landing to repairing my armor after everything was done = 37 minutes.

left with 222,775 after repairs.

Total cost of repairs: $5,182 credits.

profit: $190,963

Total elapsed time for all quests including travel to each planet as well as speeder travel time = 87 minutes from starting my dailies to finishing them.

Mind you, this was NOT doing what I normally do, which is kill everything that moves and loot every chest I see (I skipped all the chests and didn't scavenge any droids, which I normally nab and do). I kill only what I had to to complete the primary objective and get out to head to the next quest.

Again, this is a BH geared DPS Commando that tanks all the damage myself.

I used to pay about 1500-2000 total in repairs after all was said and done and usually it takes me a tad over 120 minutes simply because I farm as I go as well. I don't see the current increase at least for what I am doing, as exorbitant. Nor the time to make credits as difficult to accomplish or do as some of you are making it out to be.

OK we get it you want to play the game your way, not the way the developers intend it to be played. I'd like the ability to solo HM EC but I don't scream and stamp my feet.

Awww. You know, if devs intend for a game to be played a certain way and then end up playing it alone, I guess it should be called a success.....

I have enough credits to pay for repairs for the next year at these rates. But the rates are stupid.

 

I'm arguing on behalf of the rookie to flashpoints who shows up in level-appropriate greens, who before this change would have been allowed to stay but now gets votekicked instantly after a gear check. Or the person who misclicks once in a flash point and gets votekicked.

 

I'm arguing on behalf of the new player who wants to craft as he levels up, but quickly finds he doesn't have enough money to pay for that big level of training (like 30) because he's spent so much on repairs without even noticing it.

 

I'm arguing on behalf of the people who want to raid in the game but don't have the time or patience or desire to WORK in a game just to get to the fun stuff.

 

I'm arguing to make the game better and more fun for a wide variety of players who aren't me, so this game can have more people enjoying it and live longer and grow and get better.

 

Someone has to do it, because EA sure as hell isn't.

 

Tell me... why do you think the in some cases 10-fold increase in repair costs is GOOD for the game?

You know eventually they will add vote kick cd like in wow so if you do kick a new player you might just get another new player and have no choice, but to keep them.

As for cost of repairs I always felt that for people to raid they shouldn't just show up in augment and raiding buffs like stims ect. Raiding should have a cost associated with failure in the form of repair cost. Before the changes the cost of repair seem too low, but the new repair amount is really high. The other day I died once and was at like 97 percent or some high 90's percent high and the cost of repair was like 12k-15k, which does seems high for being nearly at 100 percent in durability with gear.

Having said that a player who raids should be required to make equivalent or run about one or two quest daily hubs per week to support a raid for the week. Now it could be that the high repair cost was implement due to inflation in the economy or their data indicated that people overall game credits was increase beyond what they though was acceptable.

At what level are you guys seeing these skyrocketing prices? My level 36 sniper dies, 1k in repair costs. My level 11 assassin dies, less than 60 credits in repair costs.

to give you an adequate example, I pull form my own character list. Mizåti, Level 34 heal-spec'd Operative with orange flashpoint gear optimized with blue Cybertech crafted mods and armorings with blue Enhancements made by my Artificer. Prior to 1.7, my repair costs were so low I barely even noticed them, somewhere in the neighborhood of 300-400 credits from one death(or compiling up to about 2k-3k if I simply take armor damage to Yellow[20%] duriong standard combat without deaths). After 1.7, I try to do my daily flashpoint mission, unaware of the repair cost issue yet, and we wiped three times across the flashpoint(Which was Boarding Party if you're curious); my combined repair cost throughout the flashpoint(because I always make sure I'm 100% repaired before walking into a flashpoint) was 34k. My jaw dropped, being as that was more than 4x-6x the amount of credits i obtained form opening every chest, and killing very nearly every enemy in the instance, in ADDITION to the reward form the mission to do the flashpoint itself.

That specific enough for you?

then run dailies?

take an hour of of your time to do something instead of sit around on the fleet or on the forums complaining about something so small?

 

seriously, credits are NOT a problem in this game when you can make 400k EASILY in a day

 

HECK sell the crap loot from running those and you can have 600k

 

you people need to stop whining and play the game.

 

*EDIT*

and before people use the excuse, "I WORK" and "I GO TO SCHOOL"

 

So do I, now stop being lazy.

Well, I'm certainly glad that you don't need any sleep or have any other real life commitments while living in your mom's basement. I do have a full time job that requires travel and a family to support, and can only play on weekends. And I'm not about to waste that time on running dailies just so that I can do flashpoints and ops the following weekend. This is a game breaker for me.

Tell me... why do you think the in some cases 10-fold increase in repair costs is GOOD for the game?

Why do you think a 90% discount on repair costs for some players based just on the costume they are wearing is GOOD for the game?

I have not noticed much of a change in my repair bills, that is because my tank has a mix of Rakata/BH gear with the BH mods in all of them.

As the leader of my guild

 

I say, run dailies, open a guild bank, deposit credits, help guild out.

 

But then again, I trust my guild

 

and a few thousand more credits isn't hurting my wallet.

 

 

Does no one realize this was a bug that has now been fixed?

Who cares if it was a bug? It just means it took longer for this issue to come to light. You really think if this "bug" didn't happen and these costs appeared however long ago it was supposed to, people wouldn't have an issue with it?

Why do you think a 90% discount on repair costs for some players based just on the costume they are wearing is GOOD for the game?

 

I have not noticed much of a change in my repair bills, that is because my tank has a mix of Rakata/BH gear with the BH mods in all of them.

You still didn't answer my question. I have an answer for yours and I'll give it as soon as you answer mine.

I just did my Dailies for my BH geared Commando. This does not include Heroics as I usually skip them unless I am helping someone else.

 

I started with my armor of both myself and my companion at 100% and with 31812 credits on this character. I didn't do any repairs until I finished the last quest on Belsavis and did my turn ins.

 

Ilum = 5 quests

Elapsed time from landing on Ilum to leaving it for The Black Hole = 27 minutes

Left with 91,298 credits

 

The Black Hole = 5 quests

Elapsed time from landing to leaving for Belsavis = 14 minutes

left with 136,468 credits

 

Belsavis regular dailies = 8 quests (yes I know there is another, I usually skip it as it's out of my fast tack path)

Elapsed time from landing to repairing my armor after everything was done = 37 minutes.

left with 222,775 after repairs.

Total cost of repairs: $5,182 credits.

profit: $190,963

 

Total elapsed time for all quests including travel to each planet as well as speeder travel time = 87 minutes from starting my dailies to finishing them.

 

Mind you, this was NOT doing what I normally do, which is kill everything that moves and loot every chest I see (I skipped all the chests and didn't scavenge any droids, which I normally nab and do). I kill only what I had to to complete the primary objective and get out to head to the next quest.

 

Again, this is a BH geared DPS Commando that tanks all the damage myself.

 

I used to pay about 1500-2000 total in repairs after all was said and done and usually it takes me a tad over 120 minutes simply because I farm as I go as well. I don't see the current increase at least for what I am doing, as exorbitant. Nor the time to make credits as difficult to accomplish or do as some of you are making it out to be.

So basically you're saying that, aside from paying $15 a month to play the game as all the raiders do, they should also be required to grind 90 minutes worth of dailies per operation they have on farm and a large multiple of that 90 minutes when they want to progress?

Yeah, that's fun worth paying for!

While I understand and somewhat agree with your sentiment I think there couldve been a better way to go about it. There are all sorts of money sinks people have been asking for for some time now. Some more I've seen pop up more recently. Pazzak games that can be bet on, speeder racing that can be bet on, hell one that I really liked was a section set up in the fleets where people could watch random huttball games on screens and bet on them. There have been a bunch of ideas (some good some not so much) floated out there that I find it impossible to believe that the devs saw.no other way to go about this. For the record I'm not opposed to evening out the repair costs between people in the standard end game affair and those with oranges with end game mods but the price should not be quite where its at now either.

As someone pointed out earlier, repair costs is a credit sink that affects everyone. None of the "suggested" alternative ones do. Some may choose not to buy that new speeder, play pazzak or bet on hutball. If they implement gambling into the game, how would that qualify as a credit sink? While some credits would be lost, there would still be credits created and added to the economy.

As someone pointed out earlier, repair costs is a credit sink that affects everyone. None of the "suggested" alternative ones do. Some may choose not to buy that new speeder, play pazzak or bet on hutball. If they implement gambling into the game, how would that qualify as a credit sink? While some credits would be lost, there would still be credits created and added to the economy.

Repair costs are still largely controllable by the player, it's just a bit less direct than not buying a speeder.

For example, because of the repair costs I've stopped doing flash points and I'm sticking to questing content that I significantly outlevel. Yes, I'm still incurring repair costs but because I'm also using my tank pet and he's in green gear, they're about the same as they were before the patch.

Similarly, you see posts that entire raiding teams (8 at a time) are quitting the game. Yes, that effectively takes whatever credits they have on them out of the economy, but it also removes all their subscriptions as revenue (raiders are all certainly subscribers) and it removes them as players with whom other players could have interacted in all the ways we interact in MMOs.

When you look at it that way, how effective is the repair cost "fix" at making the game BETTER?

Wouldn't it be more effective to bring back million credit crystals and add some million credit speeders and outfits that some people will buy, but wouldn't alienate most of the people who are paying subscriptions and participating in the community?

As someone pointed out earlier, repair costs is a credit sink that affects everyone. None of the "suggested" alternative ones do. Some may choose not to buy that new speeder, play pazzak or bet on hutball. If they implement gambling into the game, how would that qualify as a credit sink? While some credits would be lost, there would still be credits created and added to the economy.

You seem to be under the impression I'm saying to get rid of repair costs when I'm not. I don't hold issue with having repair costs but instead or raising them to the level they are now is not the right way to go about creating more of a money sink. The fact is though if you give people more ways to burn their money and they will get used, and used voluntarily. And with that will come the balancing out of the in game.economy. Hell there are casinos on Nar Shaddaa, make them functional and you'll see people pissing away money faster than BW can shake a stick at. The point is there are other ways to go about achieving the same goal, that don't so negatively impact the player base and potentially BW's bottom line with subs. They need to be smarter with their decisions than this.

You seem to be under the impression I'm saying to get rid of repair costs when I'm not. I don't hold issue with having repair costs but instead or raising them to the level they are now is not the right way to go about creating more of a money sink. The fact is though if you give people more ways to burn their money and they will get used, and used voluntarily. And with that will come the balancing out of the in game.economy. Hell there are casinos on Nar Shaddaa, make them functional and you'll see people pissing away money faster than BW can shake a stick at. The point is there are other ways to go about achieving the same goal, that don't so negatively impact the player base and potentially BW's bottom line with subs. They need to be smarter with their decisions than this.

This.

We've seen how utterly foolish people are about spending IRL money on the cartel gambling packs. It is unimaginable that they wouldn't send themselves broke in two shakes of a Bantha's tail if they were able to gamble with ingame credits.

I guess Toyota customers weren't entitled for the bug in their breakes to be fixed.

You miss the point, entirely. Expecting a bug in you brakes that causes unnecessary wear or risk to t he driver and occupants is fine. Expecting a bug in the electronic door opener which allows it to also act as a remote engine starter not to be fixed would be entitled.

Not entitled-Toyota, please fix the bug in my brakes, and also the one in my electronic key fob.

Entitled-Toyota, please fix my brakes, but don't touch my electronic key fob.

Now, let's look at another example. Toyota fixes the bug with the brakes. To do this they use a newer brake pad which is more expensive, so everyone costs go up for brake repairs down the line. Each Toyota owner has at least 3 options to deal with the increased cost:

A-Take car to Toyota dealer, pay increased dealer costs.

B-Take car to another mechanic to have brakes serviced, pay less than dealer.

C-Buy parts and do brake service themselves, or have a friend do. Cheapest method.

They can also refuse to use either of the aforementioned options, choosing instead to demand that Toyota fix their brakes, and everyone else's, for the cost of the bugged brake pads, while still using the newer more expensive brake pads.

Not entitled-I'll just have to pay a little more for the factory service, or I'll give up some time on a Saturday afternoon to change my brake pads and save a few bucks.

Entitled-It was cheaper with the bad brake pads, Toyota. I expect that you will lower the cost for me and everyone else to what it used to be. I refuse to pay more even if the brake pads are more expensive.

Ah, there we go, this is actually a decent argument.

 

Repair costs are a traditional gold sink in games, as are auction house/gtn fees. In both cases, the mechanic works...and this is important...as long as the amount taken through repairs and fees isn't exorbiant. If the price gets too high people will engage in fewer activities that lead to repair bills and will sell fewer items.

 

Where the "too high" bar is will vary from person to person. When meeting this cost becomes burdensome to a significant number of players, then you have a negative impact on the game. From my observations of the forums and chat in-game, this change is creating just that scenario.

 

Now, the good news is that repair costs are only one potential gold sink in a game economy. Putting very highly priced mounts or pets in the game is an effective way to get large amounts of credit out of the system.

 

In short, the positive effects of using repair costs as a gold sink are replicatable through other methods and the negative effects appear to be significant. Which is why I would like to see them cut repair costs across the board (for both moddable and unmoddable items) to what moddable items used to be.

Again, high priced mounts and pets are NOT universal credit sinks. Some will choose to buy them and some will choose not to buy them. Repair costs are universal.

The real question is why does it have to be that expensive?

Really, how does it serve the game to have such exorbitant repair bills?

If only they made crafters to be able to repair gear cheaper, effectively creating a new sector in the economy, making those previous sink credits to flow amongst players... But no, they just raised the Sink Tax for no apparent reason.

Sometimes I wonder who is behind all those fantastic (sarcasm) decisions we've been having since forever.

The Happy Valentine's Day from Gree post has a inmediate response from BW/EA admins, and the hunderd of pages and 5 star threads related to repair prices, don't have even a view from admins, that's the point of view of BW/EA about his customers.

Someone who has no clue whatsoever how the forum admins work. They can't comment on crap like this. This issue will take time to sort out, since there will need to be data obtained.