We have one knock back which last 2 seconds bu tbefore that even happens you have to set up your cover so it is anything but instant. Leg shot is garbage. Leg shot someone on the run and by the time it hits them they are with'in 30 meters and are in range anyways, so NO range advantage, ever. It takes less than a second to cover 5 meters. Also leg shot is good for 2 seconds... enough for one snipe? Really? You get tossed in a WW so you use escape to break out... then you get shocked for 2 full seconds and take whatever damage for that two seconds they decide to dish out. Another senerio, some guys sees you and heads your way since your an easy target. You leg shot him ASAP when he is in range, he breaks that 'cc' by using a cd of his own and charges you. You pop cover plus to knock him back so then what? He uses sprint which breaks movement imparing affects and he is on you anyways. Your done.

This is a sniper class, where is the range advantage again? Why do we only have one single escape? You can spec into counter strike but that is usless when your force choked, you break it then your feared on the ground or just simply knocked back into fire of off a cliff. Sniper 1v1 is an absolute joke.

I'm valor 56 and I'm really really close to dropping pvp altogether with this toon. Everyone across the boards complain about to much cc.... well I promise snipers have nothign to add to that. Maybe they shoudl take some away from other classes and add just one more to snipers, or another escape or soemthing. I may even like the range increased to 40 since 35 is obsolete.

This one guy told me 'you have to pick your battles'. In other words... dont' start ANY fights with anyone, just help out other people, make their 1v1 a 2v1. If they see you first your done. I've played all specs and even a couple hybrid specs just for pvp. Pvp relies on mobility, period. So I have been using Lethality. I have been doing more damage but my 1v1 is still a joke when faced with someone of equal gear level.

Snipers have no sprints, leaps, pushes, pulls, charges... nothing. They walk. Someone mentioned snipers have so many tools to use? LOL No, they don't.

When I get into a WZ and I see other snipers, I know it will be a loss. Funny thing is though, when I see several sith warriors and inquisitors I know we have a good chance to win. Sniper pvp is just simply no fun and downright stressful.

I'm sorry but i respectfully disagree to several points in his/her post.

We have one knock back which last 2 seconds but before that even happens you have to set up your cover so it is anything but instant.

*Our Cover Pulse is an amazing ability. As a MM you have to be in cover to do any real damage, Cover Pulse is an instant that knocks everyone back that doesnt have a full Resolve Bar and roots for 5 seconds (Breaks on damage after 2 sec). it's also not on the GCD so if it's a 1v1 fight, Laze, Snipe, Leg Shot to keep them in place and start SoS or Ambush-FT/EP, which if talented has another knock-back.

Leg shot is garbage. Leg shot someone on the run and by the time it hits them they are with'in 30 meters and are in range anyways, so NO range advantage, ever.

*Leg Shot is amazing. Immobilizing any target, within 35m for long enough to get a 2.5 cast Ambush, assuming RF did not proc. It has uses both offensively and defensively.

I dont understand your argument about this ability. you state that shooting someone on the run and by the time it hits them they're within 30m anyway. it completely stops them from movement allowing your shots to hit them or if coordinate an attack with a teammate for a kill, or stopping them dead in their tracks in fire/acid traps for an amusing kill.

Another senerio, some guys sees you and heads your way since your an easy target. You leg shot him ASAP when he is in range, he breaks that 'cc' by using a cd of his own and charges you. You pop cover plus to knock him back so then what? He uses sprint which breaks movement imparing affects and he is on you anyways. Your done

* In this particular scenario you have a couple difference abilities to help things out, including Diversion which makes 40% of his attacks miss, Debilitate to stun him to get off another Ambush for a knock-back.

Basically i see it this way:

I'm an 'easy' target so he comes at me, Depending on distance I'll start a Laze-Snipe for RF proc if he's mid range from me. If he's already on me, Cover Pulse first, he pops (if he chooses to waste the ability) his CC break, my Ambush is immediately started as soon as cover pulse is used. knock-back another 10m and immediately leg shot. then SoS, he's on me again, Debilitate. Shoot an instant proc Snipe by exiting and entering cover. by the time he finally got to me and started dealing damage. he's 25%-50% dead. Finish him up and move onto next target. If you need extra range. Flashbang him get distance, start up Ambush/Sniper/SoS and start whole process all over again. With Entrench active, no one can much else but either range you, or deal damage. no CC, no knock-back. unless they're full BM gear. if i see them first. they're pretty much dead, and I'm nothing special.

Sniper 1v1 can be a challenge, that's the rewarding part. it's fun and definitely doable. As i said earlier when i go 1V1 unless it's another Sniper specc'd Lethality or BM i often times come up on top.

yes we have several drawbacks, lack of mobility, a disadvantage to heavy armor targets and our class needs tweaking a lot, but if used well we can deal massive damage and hold our own.

I'm sorry, but we have great versatility. it's just not what you like. i can hold my own often times. no we do not have sprint, leap or anything along those lines. we're not front-line characters. we sit in advantageous spots and rain down pain. i'm only lvl 50 Valor but from what I'm reading about your post. it's just a long complain. if you don't like the play style simply play something else.

Lastly, when i enter a WZ if i see another Sniper. we pair up and generally are extremely difficult to kill unless most of the team gets irate and gangs up.

Ive played just about every operative hybrid I can think of. If you plan on going past the third tier in the Medicine tree, already devoting that many points, see if you can't find something for your playstyle that allows you to have 22 point in the Medicine tree.

Talented [surgical Probe] changes everything for the operative. Suddenly you can go toe-to-toe with any class by using shiv to proc TA, then Surgical Probe on yourself (while having rolling hots on yourself of course) and beat people into oblivion. Also, if more than one enemy on you, can kite when under 30% with Surgical Probe.

All in all, this talent adds loads of versatility to your play, where otherwise you scramble to get back into stealth, this lets you enjoy the open world a bit more.

I personally enjoy 22/16/3

Though my friend says 24/16/1 works better for him.

Note: This is NOT a damage spec. This is a support role. Follow another operative around and supplement his 60% burst with yours and you will kill people before the get up from the conceal op's knockdown. Or stand healing in center, then turn and beat down individual melee that attack you.

If this is unwanted and you all wanted to call me names and such, please just don't respond. Act like I never said anything.

Lastly, when i enter a WZ if i see another Sniper. we pair up and generally are extremely difficult to kill unless most of the team gets irate and gangs up.

I saw this after I posted.

I am a hard target to kill as a hybrid op. Two entrenched snipers makes me run for the hills. I don't go anywhere near that. Very effective.

I had no luck at all with lethality sniper. Players on my server dispel and you are left with nothing to cull. I had to switch back to MM which is fine as it is a pretty powerful spec.

You will get targeted in WZs as a sniper because they know that you will do too much damage if left unchecked. You just have to be careful or you will die a lot.

Agree with this and the poster before. I just recently reached 50 as a MM sniper. I was having a blast until then, but once you get in the 50 only WZ, they focus on snipers because they are easy prey. There is also the gear inbalance where I have Cent gear at best and they are full BM.

I believe the Op's would at least have the ability to pick their fights. Sniper has no such luxury. I'm not sure if respeccing to lethality would even help since I'd still be the first one focused. Look like a sniper and you may as well paint a target on your back.

I hit 50 on my sniper 3 weeks ago, my operative is now level 37. It's pretty brutal. Prepare to see your damage go from good against other level 49 players, to painful against geared 50's. It gets a little better with PvP gear, but; not that much better.

Snipers are too reliant on "Weapon Type" damage. When you ambush a raid geared unguarded BH/Trooper healer in the 50 bracket with about 18k HP for 800 damage on the second ambush (first deflected) it will pretty much hammer home how useless you are. 10-49 a sniper is a DPS force to be taken seriously. At 50 they are a glorified damage add that can't really drop anyone else.

If you are fine with being a supporting DPS that's near useless in Huttball and incapable of holding off any other (similarly skilled, similarly geared) class 1v1, you might still enjoy it. I didn't. Displaying epic levels of skill to drop bad players doesn't make a class balanced. So, while a third party observing might have thought, "he's doing ok", I was painfully aware of how bad it actually was.

So, can you still kill other players that don't play as well as you? Yes, you can. However, if you are playing against people on your own level, the weaknesses are pretty glaring. I ignored lethality spec because it's a joke against a team with even marginally competent healers or players.

When you ambush a raid geared unguarded BH/Trooper healer in the 50 bracket with about 18k HP for 800 damage on the second ambush (first deflected) it will pretty much hammer home how useless you are.

I have experienced this quite a bit lately.

I thought snipers were supposed to be the top end DPS class? We don't get escapes or cloaking or force maneuvers, etc, so I thought that was our big selling point. Against geared 50s snipers are not that powerful.

I have experienced this quite a bit lately.

 

I thought snipers were supposed to be the top end DPS class? We don't get escapes or cloaking or force maneuvers, etc, so I thought that was our big selling point. Against geared 50s snipers are not that powerful.

You'd think it'd be a simple fix, change at least one of the attacks (perhaps followthrough) to do internal damage, and change cull/takedown to kinetic. The fact that every high damage attack does weapon damage is really what kills sniper at 50. Yeah, expertise is cool and all, but if that is equal and someone has massive mitigation from armor and shields (BM/rakata mix is the worst), plus has a chance to deflect any single one of your major attacks (to take 0 damage) since they are all WEAPON DAMAGE type; it just doesn't work out too well.

My 50 sniper is shelved until they get around to making it more viable and fun in end-game PvP. Love the class though, and it was a blast in the lower brackets.

I'd just warn anyone looking for a burst DPS class not to fall into the trap of thinking it's the same class 1-49 as it is at 50, it's not.

You have a whole line of gear especially for PVP. That should be THE best gear for PVP and the raid gear should be a tier or two down (in PVP). This will drive people who aren't big raiders insane. Given that only PVP gear has expertise, this is a potential FIX to the problem.

I have really enjoyed the game, but I don't have enough time to do a lot of raiding to get Rakata gear. I spent a lots of time to get to level 60 valor so that I could start wearing BM gear and now I am facing players that deflect the first blow or two and my biggest damage dealer is reduced to somewhere aroung 800. When it takes me more than 18 shots to kill someone that can kill me in 5, well that just makes me want to smash my mouse through the desk. Not much fun when it starts getting like that.

Different specs should pick different targets.

As MM, when all of your attacks use Weapon or Kinetic damage, fight other IAs, Marauders, and Sorcerers. As EngiLeth, you can fight anything. Also, remember to use your Shatter Shot.

Even as EngiLeth, i use Ambush and Series of Shots often to great effect. Perhaps its a gear thing, but remember to utilise all of your abilities and pick your targets.

Also, in PvP, MM isn't really optimal anyway.

Edit : @Shyox.

I hate to sound trollish or dickish but if your in BM gear, or even full Champion gear, and your still feeling useless then the problem is not with the class. Experiment with some different builds, try some new things, and look at how your playing and which abilities you are and are not using. The Sniper class isn't weak, especially when geared.

@Midgey

No, you dont sound trollish at all. I just got to 60 valor, so I have about half champ gear and the rest cent gear. I don't feel useless, but good teams will single you out for an easy kill and it does get frustrating when I am using all I got and I can't crack this Merc in Rakata/BM gear. I do use shatter shot.

I have experimented with the skill tree a lot and for me it is hard to beat MM in PVP. I had no luck at all with the Danitah Eng/Leath build on my server. The dots are dispelled by the time I get to the cull, so I am left with cluster bombs and a lot less energy after the cull. I watched videos of people playing this build and they are playing in groups with other really good players, so they have lots of support. My guild has left the game mostly, so I have to queue solo most of the time, then it is hit or miss (I know I need to find another... thats a whole different issue ;-)).

I don't feel useless, just there are times when it is incredibly frustrating. Thanks for the input and tips and keeping it constructive.

Face it, no matter what spec you use, you are the weakest pvp class out there. In a 1v1 match with anyone, I would bet the other class without a second thought. I love playing a sniper in pve but in pvp it is no contest. Without a doubt, ANY other class is better. ESPECIALLY in Voidstar with everyone ducking and hiding around all the various corners and columns from one end to the other. Garbage pvp that needs a lot of work. Your in for a ton of stress doing pvp. IF, and I do mean IF ALL your cd's are ready, you can take someone 1v1 but if even one is out, you are out. Utterly dissapointing. I have a lvl 50 assasin and it is so much better in ALL aspects. In pvp movement is master. 'Oh no, look. A sniper. I'll go this way and take him out of the equation 100%.' LOS is all there is to beating a sniper from a distance. I'll go from a steady 250k-300k dps in huttball to about 100k in Voidstar, maybe 200k in Civil war because two of the points are on elevated ground so in order to shoot people up there.. you have to go up there and that is immediate melee range.

I'm sorry but I really do have nothing positive to say about sniper pvp. People talking about getting the vantage point and blah blah blah. This is SWTOR not BF3 or COD. The only advantage they give you is 35 meters instead of everyone elses 30 meters. I know all the tricks I do all the tricks and it isn't enough.

Face it, no matter what spec you use, you are the weakest pvp class out there. In a 1v1 match with anyone, I would bet the other class without a second thought.

This is pretty much it. Having old RL friends and my wife playing I've been able to try out many characters at 50 and at various gear levels; the sniper performs barely adequately if you keybind everything and burn all your cooldowns, Assassin, Operative, Mercenary, Sorcerer (only ones I could try at 50) all perform better in end-game even if you aren't too familiar with the class and under utilize abilities. It makes me a bit sad because my sniper was so much fun before end-game, but it is what it is.

I suppose I haven't spent time QQ'ing on the PvP boards or forums much because I just don't care that much and I'm not sure what the best possible fix would be, because I don't PvE and changes to one side of the gameplay can imbalance the other. Someday perhaps my sniper will come out of retirement.

Until then, I'll get my operative alt to 50 and start PvP gearing him (So very much wish items were bound to account instead of character); and roll an Assassin for alt times.

Yeah, I realize operative isn't the "best class" in 50 PvP but it's not broken either, which means it won't be on a nerf lineup anytime soon. It could use a gap closer, or some limited short duration knockback immunity triggered by tactical advantages; but it's playable even as is in both brackets.

Good, then it's not just me feeling Sniper end game PVP is more frustrating and no where near as much fun as pre-50. Makes me wish I could have stopped leveling at 49 and stayed in the kiddie-pool.

Like stated , I believe the biggest problem is are damage is largely mitigated by high level armor.

i been playing the sniper class and its damage capablity sucks its the worst class there is in this game . it takes to long to get off one shot the shields and bunker shilds is useless i been trying to make a dent in anyone and its pethatic no buffs no heavy damage on hits were just easy kill points for anyone i personley rate this class as a crapy -100% useless.

This sounds more like pvp rage to me, yesthe sniper lacks end game dps but i suspect afix is on the way

i been playing the sniper class and its damage capablity sucks its the worst class there is in this game . it takes to long to get off one shot the shields and bunker shilds is useless i been trying to make a dent in anyone and its pethatic no buffs no heavy damage on hits were just easy kill points for anyone i personley rate this class as a crapy -100% useless.

I don't think so. my sniper is level 20 and hits 3-4k on squishy classes while doing 2k+ on the rest except tank spec guardians

This sounds more like pvp rage to me, yesthe sniper lacks end game dps but i suspect afix is on the way

Don't hold your breath.

Snipers have some of the highest damage numbers out of any class in the game.

You obviously haven't seen one that is just that good.

And to the person you responded to.

L2P

There are only 2 classes in the game that can drop you to 1/2 health in 3 seconds.

1. Sniper

2. Conceal.... oh wait n/m forgot about the 4 nerf's.

Pretty good thread, I have to say, as I currently have a L46 GS and just started an OP. Even sub 50 my GS gets primaried. If i pick my fights well enough and get good support from my team mates i can rule the field. But I can get much more from my operative as im not totally dependent on my team mates not being numpties and leaving me without support (which happens a lot).

I have to agree, the Sniper / GS is the hardest class to pvp.

I prefer the running and gunning style of play, so Ive put some of the dirty fighting (IA Lethality) tree into its spec. Probably going to re spec at 50 to fully dirty fighting to get that all important mobility.

Its still early days yet, so not fully decided on my operative, but probably going to put a bit into the lethality tree and the concealment tree. Like i said, i enjoy running and gunning, so would like the option of being able to do this to try and cover me a bit for when my opener is finished. So de-cloak, CC, dot, back stab, shiv, power shot... RUN AWAY. See how that goes, of course the dot will at some point negate the CC but i should be able to get my opener in before it does its first tick. See how we go, all part of the fun experimenting with it all. :-)

Got to say im loving the operative right now.

There are only 2 classes in the game that can drop you to 1/2 health in 3 seconds.

 

1. Sniper

 

2. Conceal.... oh wait n/m forgot about the 4 nerf's.

Wrong.

I have a 45 Operative and a 25 sniper. I personally play the operative differently than most after reading this. I started out in concealment spec till i saw an operative pull 300k using lethality and I have never gone back. As lethality spec I am always the top dps in wz's. I do over 300k dmg in almost every wz cept the 1 with turrents. I have manged to go through a few Hutta Balls games with 300k dmg and no deaths.

I am rarely in stealth mode personally, i am to busy running around throwing poison grenade and darts out on everyone. I keep my range unless i see a helpless person at which point i will get into melee range to hit them with a weakening blast and then cull. Lethality operative has enough ranged dps that they dont have to get in close unless they want to. That being said I am not killing 1 person at a time like a sniper is i am spreading my dmg out across everyone on the battle field.

I have played my operative as a healer and in a WZ the last thing i was looking at on people was cleansing debuffs mainly because they are so hard to see on a friendly target. So most of my poisons run there full course on a person unless they are a healer or agent and smart enough to cleanse themselves.

Side note Operatives are beast in the 2 none Hutta Ball WZ's. The power of posions to keep a person from activating a turrent or remove or set a bomb is so key in winning those 2 types of matches. You can throw a posion on everyone near a turrent and stealth and give your allies a good 10 seconds to show up and help out. Add to that the ability to snake a turrent from anyone in the game if they are solo guarding it. As mentioned before simple walk up hit them with a sleep dart. Start stealing turrent when they use CC breaker just stealth wait a few seconds for the debuff of CCing to wear off hit them with flash bang and steal the turrent. Or do it the other way around both ways work. I personally open with the sleep dart and finish with the flash bang because if they get a dot on me i cant cleanse the sleep dart is useless second as you cant get and stay in stealth mode.

My operative can kill almost anyone 1v1 warriors are the easiest with kiting and poisons. clip their tendon and just stay out of melee range keep posions up and shoot your gun.

As for my sniper. I have found that it required me to pretty much set up shop in 1 area and wait for enemies to come to me. They are great at keeping targets away from them and dishing out masive burst dmg from afar. But i've found snipers are less helpful to the group in all 3 of the wz's over an operative.

I give the operative the heads up over sniper for utility, versatility, and overall enjoyment to play. If you want to run around and kill people operatives give you the best of both worlds from being melee and ranged.

Honestly, lvl 50 PvP is just not fun anyway compared to 10-49. I have a rank 50-ish (think I'm 53 now) Pyro Merc and when I joined my first Huttball, everyone was moving in one giant mass with the ball carrier. There was no melee in the center, no 1v1s in the corners, etc. Was it more strategic? Sure. But it was boring. And, walking in with a fullset of 40ish greens, my damage wasa crazy subapr. But even with the better gear, it was just boring. You've got to work SO much harder to kill people due to the added HPs and Expertise reducing damage (on top of natural armor increases reducing physical damage).

So, I'd say that it isn't so much the Sniper having issues as it is just PvP at lvl 50 is that much more difficult due to the layers of defense. Are Snipers lacking due to everything being ranged and not tech/internal? Definitely and I wno't dispute that. But, you're a half a step behind going in due to mechanics while trying to catch up with the gear curve. That is asking a lot.