TheAlopex Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Just curious, since I'm roling a Trooper soon. Two things have always seemed apparent to me: 1) Everyone complains that DPS Mandos are horrible in PvP. 2) Everyone complains (complained? Pre 1.4?) that Assault Vanguards were OP in PvP. Considering the Assault tree is the shared tree, what makes such a large difference between the two classes that the same tree, with the same purpose, is OP in one and UP in another? Why aren't Assault Mandos as threatening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dejavy Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Just curious, since I'm roling a Trooper soon. Two things have always seemed apparent to me: 1) Everyone complains that DPS Mandos are horrible in PvP. 2) Everyone complains (complained? Pre 1.4?) that Assault Vanguards were OP in PvP. Considering the Assault tree is the shared tree, what makes such a large difference between the two classes that the same tree, with the same purpose, is OP in one and UP in another? Why aren't Assault Mandos as threatening? Mandos HIB procs depend on chanel abilities like charged bolts and full auto, in vanguards case it's instant Ion pulse (spamable w/o cd). Vanguards utility is wider: aoe stun (you can consider it save ability), taunts, GREAT crit burst skill, harpoon and additional active ability - stock strike. Commandos have it too but never use it due to active distance difference. So, the vanguards melee burst is just amazing: AP, IR, HIB, IP, HIB, SS +(crit buff skill) = 3.5k+3.5k(dot)+3.5k+2k+3.5k = about 16k burst. So, in 10 seconds you blow up a recruit, in 20 seconds you blow up anyone else if you used your skill avoiding his save abilitties. Edited November 8, 2012 by dejavy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyronamics Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) The important thing is that Vanguards can do their attacks without any fear of interruption. Commandos have to cast to do real burst damage and casts are horribly vulnerable in pvp Stuns, blinds, knockbacks, someone popping stealth (you lose target) and actual interrupt abilities all screw with you. Instant attacks do not lose out like that. Left alone a commando can murder just as well as a vanguard but that just doesn't happen much. Nevertheless if you play it as it is you can still do well in damage if you play to the strengths and avoid packs of melee as much as possible. Edited November 8, 2012 by Gyronamics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheronFett Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) I answered this very question in the Bounty Hunter forums not that long ago. The issue is two-fold: 1) As already mentioned, the HiB proc for Vanguards is based on instant attacks (Stockstrike/Ion Pulse). For Commandos, it's based on channeled attacks (Full Auto/Charged Bolts). 2) Vanguards heavily rely on Ion Pulse, both for damage, and to proc HiB. This is a 4m spammable ability that does decent damage, and Commandos don't have it. This single ability is what vastly separates these two ACs in terms of damage potential and ultimately, survivability at melee range. There have been a ton of suggestions posted on how to improve Merc/Commando. If they were given Flame Burst/Ion Pulse, it would go a LONG way towards addressing the problems this class faces. Edited November 11, 2012 by TheronFett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurseDonut Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) In addition to the posts above, Vanguards get a 100% chance to trigger plasma cell with the ionized ignition talent. Commandos have nothing similar, and have to rely on a 16% chance. Edited November 8, 2012 by NurseDonut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerensk Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 A drawback with the Vanguard is you have to be under 10m for most of the heavy hitting attacks, you have to get used to being in the melee by choice. All merc attacks are 30m so you can hang out with the snipers. But currently the Jedi love to jump to you and eliminate that 30m buffer. That's why a merc's ability is highly dependent on not being noticed, blocking LOS, or kiteing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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