Because bi people, of course, aren't on the LGBT spectrum... >.>

I think you're misunderstanding. There are are a few Bi characters on Makeb now, he's saying he's glad there is someone to fill another piece of the spectrum, rather than having all people just be bi.

Edit: Sorry you already made a reply about that, but still, I think the way you're reading him is not the way he intended it. He's just happy he was able to create a character in a way that he envisioned him and not had both characters happen to be bisexual. But hopefully next story expansion we'll get more variation in "the spectrum".

I think you're misunderstanding. There are are a few Bi characters on Makeb now, he's saying he's glad there is someone to fill another piece of the spectrum, rather than having all people just be bi.

See above.

Quote from the writer on Twitter: I'm still proud that he's gay instead of bi. We need more characters from the full LGBT spectrum!

 

So the answer is, because he just wanted it that way.

well I guess that puts an end to the possibility of herosexual companions.

well I guess that puts an end to the possibility of herosexual companions.

It does. A definitive end.

See above.

Likewise I edited while you replied.

well I guess that puts an end to the possibility of herosexual companions.

Why? that's just his personal opinion. And he's not even at Bioware anymore.

Why? that's just his person opinion. And he's not even at Bioware anymore.

Because if they're making characters that are exclusive to specific genders then they're not using the herosexual model. They're mutually exclusive for the most part, which is why herosexuality isn't the same as bisexuality.

Because if they're making characters that are exclusive to specific genders then they're not using the herosexual model. They're mutually exclusive for the most part, which is why herosexuality isn't the same as bisexuality.

Just because one ex-Bioware employee states on Twitter that he would prefer writing characters that fill in different orientations, doesn't mean there is a company wide policy on it. They could take a different path in the future.

Just because one ex-Bioware employee states on Twitter that he would prefer writing characters that fill in different orientations, doesn't mean there is a company wide policy on it. They could take a different path in the future.

Ye-es, but if the writer's written a specific orientation then he's been given leave to do so. Writers create characters for games under direction, not in a vacuum. Sure, things might change in the future but we can only use the information we have now and for the most part this is as good as a company policy statement as we're going to get (and a great deal better than we've had in the past).

Edit: Sorry you already made a reply about that, but still, I think the way you're reading him is not the way he intended it. He's just happy he was able to create a character in a way that he envisioned him and not had both characters happen to be bisexual. But hopefully next story expansion we'll get more variation in "the spectrum".

I'm really not misunderstanding. I do get what he meant. I just didn't gel with the way he phrased it and had a moment of Bitterness.

Well, we do know the overal lead writing direction from the beginning through Makeb was with Daniel Erickson, and he is gone. Alex Freed, whom I was quoting, is also gone (sadly, I love his writing). I think we've seen the last of the writing direction from the old team. What we get in the future is largely unknown territory.

PS - sorry for assuming you misunderstood the quote, I understand what you're saying and it even initially put me off a tiny bit, but I think Twitter just doesn't allow for much elegance.

Well, we do know the overal lead writing direction from the beginning through Makeb was with Daniel Erickson, and he is gone. Alex Freed, whom I was quoting, is also gone (sadly, I love his writing). I think we've seen the last of the writing direction from the old team. What we get in the future is largely unknown territory.

I don't have a problem with unknown territory, really. And while I do think this spells the death knell for herosexuality (which some people will be overjoyed by) I'm entirely happy to be wrong.

PS - sorry for assuming you misunderstood the quote, I understand what you're saying and it even initially put me off a tiny bit, but I think Twitter just doesn't allow for much elegance.

No, that's cool. My short response certainly looked like I was misunderstanding, I realise that now. My bad.

Because if they're making characters that are exclusive to specific genders then they're not using the herosexual model. They're mutually exclusive for the most part, which is why herosexuality isn't the same as bisexuality.

Now, I wonder if they would ever make a lesbian exclusive romance option.

For some reason, don't think they will.

It does. A definitive end.

Which I'm actually suprised about. I would have bet that's how they would have gone about it.

Now, I wonder if they would ever make a lesbian exclusive romance option.

 

For some reason, don't think they will.

I couldn't say whether they will or not but if they're going to make M/M exclusive romances they definitely should make F/F exclusive romances. I'll be incredibly disappointed if they do one and not the other.

I couldn't say whether they will or not but if they're going to make M/M exclusive romances they definitely should make F/F exclusive romances. I'll be incredibly disappointed if they do one and not the other.

It's why I was not surprised to find out the Lady of Makeb was bi, not gay. Yes, there's biphobia and bi erasure, but bisexual women seem to outnumber bisexual men in media (from what I understand) and there appears to be only one reason for that. It's the same reason all the (non-droid) female companions are fully scripted romance options. In this game, at least, there appears to be the message that the women are here for the men, not on their own virtue.

And that makes me wonder, a little, if the Lady of Makeb is bi because she is bi or if she's bi because otherwise the straight male character players would whine they couldn't romance her?

It's why I was not surprised to find out the Lady of Makeb was bi, not gay. Yes, there's biphobia and bi erasure, but bisexual women seem to outnumber bisexual men in media (from what I understand) and there appears to be only one reason for that. It's the same reason all the (non-droid) female companions are fully scripted romance options. In this game, at least, there appears to be the message that the women are here for the men, not on their own virtue.

 

And that makes me wonder, a little, if the Lady of Makeb is bi because she is bi or if she's bi because otherwise the straight male character players would whine they couldn't romance her?

As a female player I can say that I don't mind not being able to romance Cytharat on my female toons. I quite like it this way, he's exclusively for my male toons.

I can't comment on your final question because I'm not male and not interested in a f/f flirt for my female toons (though I'll definitely watch the scenes on YouTube).

I don't mind, in general, what romance options are available for both genders and which aren't as long as they give me some options that are worthwhile (if they made Cytharat a companion I wouldn't ever need any other flirt option for my males but that's just me)

I found you on twitter as well as the messages you'd spoken of. There's been no answer from the current writers yet, has there? I don't know whether this is a good or a bad sign... Or did I overlook something? I'm not too familiar with Twitter.

Nah, hardly anyone answers me. I'm know

but they likely also aren't allowed to answer any question that isn't "Yay you have SGR in SWTOR!" and though I'd love to know the reasoning behind the faction-romance split and why all female companions are romance options and why so far the only SGR female companion is bi (reinforcing the idea that the women in this game are here for men), I know it's never going to happen, because it's a "hard" question.

There's no point in saying "Eric Musco" in front of the mirror three times at midnight, either, he'd just pop and go "Yes! We do have SGR in SWTOR. Yay!" and disappear again, all the while followed by a gang of angry and hyperbolic PvP'ers.

I couldn't say whether they will or not but if they're going to make M/M exclusive romances they definitely should make F/F exclusive romances. I'll be incredibly disappointed if they do one and not the other.

Firstly, I don't understand this reasoning: "Because X character is exclusively gay, they won't do herosexual characters any more."

1) Any bisexual character will almost always be perceived to be herosexual regardless.

2) Being herosexual is more than just being lesbian, gay, or straight in reflection of the PC's gender. Species, alignment, and looks are all factors also. Every romancable companion is available to every PC of compatible gender regardless of species, alignment, or looks. If we need to distinguish on sexuality, we need to distinguish on the basis of those other factors too. So no matter if the companion is gay, lesbian, bisexual, or straight, if they ignore all other physical traits they're still herosexual. (I am not saying this is a good or a bad thing, I am not complaining about anything thing here. I am simply presenting my point of view, and why I think that there is a hole in the logic as presented above. Also note the other problem - in order to cater to everyone, the number of romancable characters would need to explode exponentially, and no company on Earth has the resources to make that happen in any length of time short of infinity, let alone the computing power it would require. )

Secondly, to address your quote. I hate to say this, but we've seen it already. We have a gay short-romance on Imperial side, and a bisexual female short-romance on Republic. I don't know about the non-Makeb flirts, but that's strike one. I am not expecting to see a romanceable lesbian character in SWTOR any time soon, if ever.

It's why I was not surprised to find out the Lady of Makeb was bi, not gay. Yes, there's biphobia and bi erasure, but bisexual women seem to outnumber bisexual men in media (from what I understand) and there appears to be only one reason for that. It's the same reason all the (non-droid) female companions are fully scripted romance options. In this game, at least, there appears to be the message that the women are here for the men, not on their own virtue.

 

And that makes me wonder, a little, if the Lady of Makeb is bi because she is bi or if she's bi because otherwise the straight male character players would whine they couldn't romance her?

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing.

You definitely get my concern as my post was geared less towards "lesbian representation" (though that's important) and more towards the issue of "herosexuality" vs. "gender exclusive romances". Now, it just seems like, "Yeah, gender exclusive romances are great and all...totally the way to go over "herosexuality"...unless straight male PCs are excluded from romancing females...that's bad and stuff. Can't have that."

Firstly, I don't understand this reasoning: "Because X character is exclusively gay, they won't do herosexual characters any more."

 

1) Any bisexual character will almost always be perceived to be herosexual regardless.

2) Being herosexual is more than just being lesbian, gay, or straight in reflection of the PC's gender. Species, alignment, and looks are all factors also. Every romancable companion is available to every PC of compatible gender regardless of species, alignment, or looks. If we need to distinguish on sexuality, we need to distinguish on the basis of those other factors too. So no matter if the companion is gay, lesbian, bisexual, or straight, if they ignore all other physical traits they're still herosexual. (I am not saying this is a good or a bad thing, I am not complaining about anything thing here. I am simply presenting my point of view, and why I think that there is a hole in the logic as presented above. Also note the other problem - in order to cater to everyone, the number of romancable characters would need to explode exponentially, and no company on Earth has the resources to make that happen in any length of time short of infinity, let alone the computing power it would require. )

 

Secondly, to address your quote. I hate to say this, but we've seen it already. We have a gay short-romance on Imperial side, and a bisexual female short-romance on Republic. I don't know about the non-Makeb flirts, but that's strike one. I am not expecting to see a romanceable lesbian character in SWTOR any time soon, if ever.

Or to make it really simple, the game itself can't tell if you're unattrative! And it's likely a lot more work for them to go about going "script this so this NPC won't go after any Pure Blood Sith with face tentacle, or are body type 4 males, or faces this through this"

You know, complicate things up, to the point that it creates a bug that has people whining it messed up some other part of the game, because someone accidently did this or that to the code.

Hello Ms. Green,

 

Though I know the SGR/A Discussion thread is not followed nor often read, but we are currently covering the fact that Lemda Avesta is bisexual and Lord Cytharat is gay. Now, this might not seem very interesting, however if you look at this within the context of the greater game, all female companions (SCORPIO being the one current exception, as she identifies female, but is a droid) are romance options for male characters, male characters get the greater majority of [Flirt]s options in the open and story worlds, it seems that the purpose of female characters is to be attractive to straight male gamers and to be perceived as - and actually - available to them in a romantic fashion.

 

Now, Mr. Musco did state, after the news of the faction restriction on the Makeb SGRs, that the romances will be created equally by faction and gender in the future. Notably, he did not mention sexuality, which implies that future female romances will either be straight or bisexual.

While we will never be told why the romances in Makeb were separated by faction or why Lemda must be bisexual, I feel it must at least be mentioned to you and the writers what impression this gives.

 

It is unfortunate that we cannot discuss anything with the writers - I know that Mr. Freed was involved in the project and left before it went live - as it would be interesting and, I would hope, helpful for both sides. However, I would ask that someone at least glance at the discussion occurring in the SGR/A thread currently. We know what we would like to see and how ti would be implemented, but because the thread is not read by anyone on the Bioware team, except for around the times Mr. Hickman decides to make an announcement, our ideas and concerns are going to go unheard.

 

The application of romances in Makeb are considered unfair - we've been getting anecdotal evidence, but apparently Lord Cytharat is the only option for gay male characters of either faction - and to continue that trend further would only harm this game and Bioware's reputation with the LGB* community, particularly if all female romance options are going to be straight or bisexual and if options for gay male characters are so drastically limited.

 

Look at this way: Mr. Musco said that [Flirt]s and romance options would be balanced across faction and gender, so say there are eight new romance options coming in an expansion and they're world romances - there would be four options for male characters and four options for female characters. Going by what has been done up until now, three of the four male options would be women and one would be male. For the sake of argument, the female options would be split 50/50, but the female-female romances would be with be bisexual females who are also available as male romance options. Now, this does not affect the individual story experience, but objectively, this says that gay male romances are rare and marginalized and that female NPCs should be made available to straight male characters/gamers, regardless.

 

And that makes me wonder, a little, if the Lady of Makeb is bi because she is bi or if she's bi because otherwise the straight male character players would whine they couldn't romance her?

 

I know we have yet to see any more SGR/A content, but it is going to be a very long way off, if Mr. Hickman's statements that companion romances are incredibly hard to do. It is a given that any romance done with current female companions will make those women bisexual - they are already herosexual**, but discriminate only on gender, something else that has been discussed in the SGR/A thread - but there is the likelihood that companion SGRAs will be done with new companions (something else that people are taking as a given, if only for that the fact that none of them believe Bioware capable of putting in new romances with current companions), which makes me wonder if any future female romance options will be made with the idea of being for male romancers first and female romancers secondarily.

 

And this is not to mention other problems this game has with female characters and their romances or the issue of armour, but that's going off on a tangent.

 

Of course I do not expect anything to come of this message, but if the notion could at least be entertained, that would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks,

Tatile

 

 

*I'd question whether the trans* community would feel represented in this game, let alone those who are outside the general gender binary

**I do wonder why herosexuality is only a problem when discussing in terms of sexuality, but not species or personality

Got a little distracted, so I wrote this up. I tried to make it so that it's my opinion on matters that are happening and the use of "we" is when the discussions in this and other threads are being brought up, but I tried not to appear as though I am some sort of magical spokesperson for all of this. Any (constructive) input would be gratefully received.

Of course I did also already send this off :x

Thanks, Stuffy. I figured at least one part of the conversation (or attempt) should be made available to the community and besides, I'm not very good at this words malarkey, so help there would also be appreciated.

The trans* thing didn't come off as a cheap shot or too snide?

Thanks, Stuffy. I figured at least one part of the conversation (or attempt) should be made available to the community and besides, I'm not very good at this words malarkey, so help there would also be appreciated.

 

The trans* thing didn't come off as a cheap shot or too snide?

Nah, and I think you are pretty good with words