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Salvation/Revivification Discrepency (Sage/Sorc AOE Heal)


Ashkelon

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That heal... my HIGHEST ABILITY IN THE HEALING TREE... cost 3x resources, heals for less then a basic bounty hunter AoE that they get under level 20... That's completely sad.

 

Theirs only heals 3 targets. Yours heals everyone. You win.

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The extra 'large' heal at the beginning of Salvation was always unintended, and was removed as part of this fix. The 'double' tick at the beginning was corrected but still appears visually. This issue will be further corrected in an upcoming patch which should make the ticks read much more clearly and be more evenly spaced out.

 

The design intent of this ability is 11 ticks of healing over a 10 second period to all applicable taregts within the area (Which is also how Revivification works). Hope this helps clarify!

 

How is this correct if the tooltip obviously states otherwise?

 

The wording on the tool tip suggests an initial heal, and then a further over time amount of ticks? So either there is an error with how you've fixed the skill and are just claiming its unintended, or the tooltip has been wrong since beta, either of which is a bit thin on the ground for QA purposes.

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The ability is basically useless now. The heal it provides compared to the force cost, especially since it's our ONLY AoE heal, is completely unjustifiable... especially when compared to TTK and damage done in this game. (I know you won;t believe this but people die in 1-3 seconds when focused by any decent DPS)

 

Imagine that sith sorcerec was healing like this from the begining.

So stop whineing and lern to use it right.

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The extra 'large' heal at the beginning of Salvation was always unintended, and was removed as part of this fix. The 'double' tick at the beginning was corrected but still appears visually. This issue will be further corrected in an upcoming patch which should make the ticks read much more clearly and be more evenly spaced out.

 

The design intent of this ability is 11 ticks of healing over a 10 second period to all applicable taregts within the area (Which is also how Revivification works). Hope this helps clarify!

 

If this is in fact true, then please change the Sage cast animation of the spell as it makes no sense to have a BOMB of light that does nothing, then in the aftermath of the bomb of light there's healing.

 

I really doubt this was ALWAYS unintended, mostly because of the fact that the spell animation makes no sense without it, on top of that you have the tooltip as well, which also states that there's an initial heal.

 

So instead of going about saying it was unintended, say it like it is, we're not stupid, it is a nerf, not a fix, please just admit that rather than these flimsy excuses.

 

Obviously since both the sorc and sage tooltips state the same thing you're wrong in what you say, it wasn't unintended, but it was changed.

 

Theirs only heals 3 targets. Yours heals everyone. You win.

 

but ours have a long cast time to make up for the extra targets, we also have to invest a lot more points into our healing tree to actually get ours, and the commando one also have other abilities to increase its effect such as Supercharge cells.

 

So of course ours should heal more, but at this point it will mostly not end up doing that much more. The commando aoe heal also leaves an effect on the target (if you've taken the skillpoint for it) which increases healing done to the target.

 

So all in all I don't think the initial heal on Salvation was anywhere near overpowered compared to that example, they're used for very different situations though.

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I see sorcs basically spam their version of the spell and seem to never run out of force. And it seems to heal a lot even without the initial burst.

 

I'd rather see the initial heal amount taken out of the heal over time effect and then put in as the initial heal, I'd be fine with that, but the initial heal is really what makes the ability really really good, and I'm not kidding.

 

The thing is that without it people NEED to stay in the circle for pretty much the full duration or you've just wasted your time casting it, whereas if you have the initial heal it won't be wasted as much if people just move out of it.

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Honestly, I'm thinking force bending should apply an effect to it. Something like increasing the healing by 20%, adding the "big heal", or reducing the cost/cast time.

 

 

It's weird that a buff that affects all our heals doesn't affect revivification. It'd make us choose between an almost guaranteed force boost, or a lot of extra healing to the OP.

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It's weird that a buff that affects all our heals doesn't affect revivification. It'd make us choose between an almost guaranteed force boost, or a lot of extra healing to the OP.

 

Read the tooltip =O

 

=> Revivification : Force cost reduced by 30%

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I see sorcs basically spam their version of the spell and seem to never run out of force. And it seems to heal a lot even without the initial burst.

 

"Basically spam" you say? This ability that costs 100 force (70 if used with spec:ed Resurgence, 61 if Electric Induction is used as well) and a 15sec cooldown is "spammed"?

 

Regardless of this statement, this is a very useable skill. It's very good in PvE situations where you have people being able to stand still for larger amounts of time. It is not as useful in PvP - but it has its moments there as well. Usually when defending objectives, if you ask me.

 

With regards to the "always unintentional"-statement, I'd rather give them the benefit of the doubt, but the tooltip is pretty clear. It heals for an additional amount over 10 seconds.

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You guys need to quit crying about this. You have the absolute best AoE healing in the game. You also have the best pre-emptive healing in the game. You have the best resource system in the game. You have the best burst healing in the game. You have the most effective bubble in the game. How you could want more is beyond me.
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You guys need to quit crying about this. You have the absolute best AoE healing in the game. You also have the best pre-emptive healing in the game. You have the best resource system in the game. You have the best burst healing in the game. You have the most effective bubble in the game. How you could want more is beyond me.

 

This. Srsly, anyone saying that sorcs healing in any aspect is either troll or izi modo kid.

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You guys need to quit crying about this. You have the absolute best AoE healing in the game. You also have the best pre-emptive healing in the game. You have the best resource system in the game. You have the best burst healing in the game. You have the most effective bubble in the game. How you could want more is beyond me.

 

Sorcs/Sages don't have the best burst healing, and long term healing isn't all that far from eachother tbh, this is taken from a pve standpoint. I do agree we have the best aoe healing, but it has harsh requirements compared to any other healing effect, especially now, because people need to stand in it to get the healing, and they need to stand there for some time to get it, on top of that it has a long cast time, where many other aoe heals (for example the commando/merc healing spell) are instant cast.

 

All the resource systems are fine enough if you just know what you're doing, if you know what you're doing you're not getting out of anything with any of the resource systems.

 

You also say we have the best preemptive you say and the best bubble? aren't these 2 the same thing? and sure I agree our bubble is very good, very very good in fact, but then I'd rather see a nerf to this than anything else (because clearly this is the most used and best ability we have in our arsenal). Oh and compared to our other abilities if we spam bubble on all people we will go out of force very very quickly.

Edited by Tinno
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Seems to be an awful lot of mis-reading and mis-understanding of tooltips here.

 

The Sage version of AoE heal was healing for *more* period. When compared to the Sorc version it healed *more*. They changed the disparity by removing the "Big" initial heal.

 

Hence the "tick twice" patch notes. The *first* tick of the AoE heal ticks immediately upon completion of the casting. That is your initial heal, it then ticks for a HoT in the area for the next 10 seconds.

 

Giving you essentially 11 "ticks". The sage version had 12 ticks with two "initial" heals instead of the 1. I'm not sure where people are confused about this or why they are complaining.

 

It's a perfectly viable skill and Sorc's have been dealing without the initial heal for awhile now. Sage's---quit whining and learn to play (heal) like the rest of the Imperial's have been for awhile.

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Sorcs/Sages don't have the best burst healing

They have much larger resource pool and regen mechanics that are independant of it, it allows them to screw up during a phase where some heavy healing is required while ops/mercs will have to deal with pathetic regen if they have 2min energy regen ability on CD. So they may not have a best burst (not sure about it) but they are allowed to burst.

 

 

Also, this nerf wont touch sorcs (because they werent bugged to begin with) so why bother.

Edited by Vesperr
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The ability is basically useless now. The heal it provides compared to the force cost, especially since it's our ONLY AoE heal, is completely unjustifiable.

 

That heal... my HIGHEST ABILITY IN THE HEALING TREE... cost 3x resources, heals for less then a basic bounty hunter AoE that they get under level 20... That's completely sad.

 

Sounds like it's more inline with the OP Medic AoE heal now, except two Op Medic talents still aren't working at all and one increases HOTs.

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They have much larger resource pool and regen mechanics that are independant of it, it allows them to screw up during a phase where some heavy healing is required while ops/mercs will have to deal with pathetic regen if they have 2min energy regen ability on CD. So they may not have a best burst (not sure about it) but they are allowed to burst.

 

 

Also, this nerf wont touch sorcs (because they werent bugged to begin with) so why bother.

 

This is actually fallacious thinking.

 

While Sorcs can burst heal "without consequence" they have a dedicated rate of regeneration which is really low; and in a situation where they are low on resources, they can only "life tap" to gain back force. In the situations where they life tap, they further reduce their regeneration. In a nutshell; they can burst heal, but if they deplete their resources and then still need to continue on, they can negate all of their regeneration of force.

 

With Ops/Mercs they both can't burst heal as easily, but if they DO need to burst heal, they can use Adrenaline Probe/Vent Heat to get back into the "sweet spot" of healing with optimal regeneration. Both classes also have a heal that costs no resources either; where sorc's don't.

 

In short, Sorc's can burst heal but they suffer from no reliable way to regain force if they deplete it in an emergency. Once they are out, they will continue to suffer if they "consumption" to regain force. And they can only consumption 4 times in a short period before they royally screw themselves.

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The extra 'large' heal at the beginning of Salvation was always unintended, and was removed as part of this fix. The 'double' tick at the beginning was corrected but still appears visually. This issue will be further corrected in an upcoming patch which should make the ticks read much more clearly and be more evenly spaced out.

 

The design intent of this ability is 11 ticks of healing over a 10 second period to all applicable taregts within the area (Which is also how Revivification works). Hope this helps clarify!

 

Since this issue was the only thing that gave Republic an advantage over imperials and you were able to reply to this post after only 3 pages, you think maybe a dev could wander on over to my 80 page thread and give a little comment on it?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=101553

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This is actually fallacious thinking.

 

While Sorcs can burst heal "without consequence" they have a dedicated rate of regeneration which is really low; and in a situation where they are low on resources, they can only "life tap" to gain back force. In the situations where they life tap, they further reduce their regeneration. In a nutshell; they can burst heal, but if they deplete their resources and then still need to continue on, they can negate all of their regeneration of force.

 

With Ops/Mercs they both can't burst heal as easily, but if they DO need to burst heal, they can use Adrenaline Probe/Vent Heat to get back into the "sweet spot" of healing with optimal regeneration. Both classes also have a heal that costs no resources either; where sorc's don't.

 

In short, Sorc's can burst heal but they suffer from no reliable way to regain force if they deplete it in an emergency. Once they are out, they will continue to suffer if they "consumption" to regain force. And they can only consumption 4 times in a short period before they royally screw themselves.

 

 

Wrong. The free heal that sorcs get in the middle of their tree is the best free heal in the game. A BH/Op will need to spam their free heals and spend many GCDs more to get the same effective healing as the 1 GCD sorc heal every few seconds. Their resource mechanic also isn't as flawed as you try to make it seem. Their lifetap doesn't screw them over that much considering they get free lifetap procs. They can also just lifetap 2x during a lull in damage to get their force back up to max. Sorcs are hands down the easiest and best healers in every single situation. Top guilds aren't stacking sorc healers because their purple/gold circles look cool. They outclass everything else by a mile.

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This is actually fallacious thinking.

 

While Sorcs can burst heal "without consequence" they have a dedicated rate of regeneration which is really low; and in a situation where they are low on resources, they can only "life tap" to gain back force. In the situations where they life tap, they further reduce their regeneration. In a nutshell; they can burst heal, but if they deplete their resources and then still need to continue on, they can negate all of their regeneration of force.

 

In short, Sorc's can burst heal but they suffer from no reliable way to regain force if they deplete it in an emergency. Once they are out, they will continue to suffer if they "consumption" to regain force. And they can only consumption 4 times in a short period before they royally screw themselves.

 

This stops being true in the mid-30s for sorc/sage healers.

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LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL at them fixing the one major mirror issue that is in favor of Republic, but not the 30+ that favor Empire.

 

Go ahead and list them for me. All 30 of them.

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The free heal that sorcs get in the middle of their tree is the best free heal in the game.

 

Their resource mechanic also isn't as flawed as you try to make it seem.

 

Their lifetap doesn't screw them over that much considering they get free lifetap procs. They can also just lifetap 2x during a lull in damage to get their force back up to max.

 

First, free heal? you just mean instant cast? Cause no heal we have is free.

 

Second like they said above if we have to go heavy heals we lose a majority of our energy and have no way to really get it back effectively amidst healing and GCD's. Scoundrel's for one get a 50% 2 min CD return of energy? or a 45 second buff that returns 3% every 3 seconds? As far as our 'lifetap' it's a 8% return that stacks a debuff on our natural regen, so I don't know where you think this 2x during a lull = full force? We can only stay at max (not saying its hard) if we strictly stick to our rotation and don't have to 'emergency heal' people.

 

As for ops taking Sage/Sorc healers? That has everything to do with the aoe heal over time effecting everyone in its area.

 

I guess I just feel that the healer classes just seem not on an even scale? Maybe intended maybe not, but my sentiment is they should be. Nerf our AoE heal and give us better regen or buff other's aoe and get rid of their regen capabilities?

Edited by cpeabs
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Devs look. Why don't you do EVERYONE a favor and cut this first tick then periodic tick AoE bullcrap.

 

Just change the AoE heal to heal for the full amount as soon as the effect is applied and be done with it. This tick crap is honestly stupid in a game where DPS is apparently king. I'm sure my level 50 friends in warzones would appreciate a 3.6k heal at one time rather then a crappy 10 second tick.

Edited by Brittaany_Banks
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Innervate is such high healing for such little cost that I refer to it as a "free" heal at times. It also procs free consumptions which end up giving you a net gain in force. My bad. My point still stands that Sorcerers have the best of everything. 50% of operative energy is good for maybe 3-4 heals in total if they use their weaker heals. You guys seem to think of those 50% insta-regen cooldowns in terms of sorcerers. Imagine you had ~200 force in total. That's about as good as the 50% insta-regen cooldown gets for the other healers. If you really can't heal after this tweak then might I suggest Hello Kitty Online Adventure? I hear you don't even have to faceroll(which is what sorc healing is right now comparatively), you just sit on the keyboard and wiggle around.

 

Edit: Sorcs don't have regen issues unless they spam stupidly. Healing is never done in a "rotation" you use abilities intelligently or you will fail. I really think you guys need to try the other healers to see how far their "superior regen mechanics" are getting them. You might just learn to keep quiet so they don't nerf you hard. It's what most of the good sorcs are doing right now.

Edited by Tumri
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