Since you're not a crafter or a GTN broker, you have no arguement.

I am both. I've made far more credits since the Cartel Market launched than I ever did before. All I did was change what segment of the market I focused on. I now sell stims, medpacks, armorings, mods, and enhancements all at a very rapid pace. The "competition" from planetary comm vendors is negligible. The fact that there's so much adaptable, modifiable armor now available to the players has increased the demand for armor mods beyond what I can supply.

I'm literally swimming in credits, thanks to the Cartel market.

Then you present a counterview to Blackavaar. I still believe him at his word. And you can NOT negate my opinion by de facto saying I have no arguement because I admit to being neither a broker or a crafter. I can still way in based on reason. Something that many forget in these forums. I wasn't arguing for or against just positing imperiacl observation based on what I have seen reported in this thread. If you had not started your post with the statement that you did, it would have come of as a nice counterpoint instead of being defensive.

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

Can we can any "specifics"? Is each customization (hair, eyes, bodytype..etc) it's own separate purchase? Is the purchase a 1 time only or is it a character/legacy unlock? I know it's early, but still any more details you are looking at would be appreciated.

Except the cartel market isn't 100% "purely" cosmetic, is it? Or with this statement, are you indicating that you will be removing everything that is not purely 100% cosmetic from the cartel market?

You miss the "non-game impacting features" part of the post?

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

This is spin Eric. The CM stipend was billed as a "loyalty reward" for subscribers. Now it is being used to fund things that should be part of the subscription instead of giving subscribers complete control over said stipend. You are now basically supporting a bait and switch. Instead of doing that if you are going to take our CM stipend back in the form of nickle and diming us for features, why not just simply do away with the stipend and give all the future features as part of the price of the subscription.

You miss the "non-game impacting features" part of the post?

That's an interesting clause, yes. Wouldn't it be fun to see their definition of "game impacting" and "pay to win"?

It's stuff like that made me quit LoTRO, and will make me eventually leave this game and go to whatever else that comes out that doesn't do this.

At this point I'm really looking forward to trying Elder Scrolls Online, or the World of Darkness MMO.

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

Hi Eric,

It's really what I've expected. I'm ok with paying CCs. But, I think part of my concern and probably others is with seeing *so many* things heading the cartel shop route, we start to wonder 1) are we just going to see less and less aspects of the game created to be achieved in game and more and more to be in the shop, and also 2) with more and more things that we want being in the cartel shop, as subscribers, the more we will want to spend our stipend, and the less valuable the 500-600 starts to feel.

In other words, the more content is created for the cartel market, the less valuable a subscription starts to feel. I feel like a point is going to come where we will probably need to see an increase in the stipend or else more ways for us to earn them in game.

Unless they expand the character creation (upcoming shop) then they may as well not even release it. Right now we are stuck with a stupidly limited system. Four body types, no adjustments can be made. No adjustments for facial features. You select a preset and thats it. Most hairstyles suck. Some species are even more limited. Zabraks should be able to choose their headbone formations seperate from their hair, uet they cannot. Twi'leks should be able to choose their marking design and color separate from their facial cosmetics, yet they cannot. Twis should also have a much broader range of skin colors, but they don't.

Then there is the fact that if you actually do want to use the shop you have to use cartel coins. Sorry, but this needs to be changed to credits. Not everything they add has to be in the CM and this should be one of those features we access with in-game currency. It's something the community has asked for well before they even thought about going free-to-play.

I don't see the barber shop doing too well if all it is is just the current character creation system. You already made your character the way you could with the few options you had. Unless you change your species (a stupid thing to allow) then why would you want to change anything else when you already know what few options you have?

I would like to know if the devs are planning to expand and deepen the creation system when the barber shop comes out. Can you get us that information, Mr. Musco? Can you please present the concerns I have pointed out to the devs as well?

Hi Eric,

 

It's really what I've expected. I'm ok with paying CCs. But, I think part of my concern and probably others is with seeing *so many* things heading the cartel shop route, we start to wonder 1) are we just going to see less and less aspects of the game created to be achieved in game and more and more to be in the shop, and also 2) with more and more things that we want being in the cartel shop, as subscribers, the more we will want to spend our stipend, and the less valuable the 500-600 starts to feel.

 

In other words, the more content is created for the cartel market, the less valuable a subscription starts to feel. I feel like a point is going to come where we will probably need to see an increase in the stipend or else more ways for us to earn them in game.

Excellent post that addresses the concerns that I think many of us have about the market.

I think the Cartel Market should sell Barber Shop Tickets or whatever you want to call it, that are tradeable on the GTN. A good compromise, no?

Then you present a counterview to Blackavaar. I still believe him at his word. And you can NOT negate my opinion by de facto saying I have no arguement because I admit to being neither a broker or a crafter. I can still way in based on reason. Something that many forget in these forums. I wasn't arguing for or against just positing imperiacl observation based on what I have seen reported in this thread. If you had not started your post with the statement that you did, it would have come of as a nice counterpoint instead of being defensive.

I never stated Blackavaar was wrong about HIS revenue stream going down, and HIS view of the GTN market being impacted. What I was trying to get across is that one must adapt to the current market conditions. Were you an active participant in said markets, you could see that while the demand for "Veracity Armor #34 with big stat numbers" has gone down, the demand for "Cool-looking armor with no stats" has gone up dramatically.

There was a time when mid level color crystals sold well and for great profits, but that time is now over. With the cartel market crystals being available at level 10, with the same stats as a crafted level 50 crystal, everything in between has lost a great deal of value. But the response I've chosen was not to stamp my feet and cry foul. I chose to shift my focus to another market segment: Companion Gifts and item enhancements. I adapted.

TL;DR- The Cartel market didn't kill crafting.

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

And there is your first mistake!! Do not design anything around the fact that we get monthly grants!! What is the point of giving them to us if you are going to help us spend them as well!! Leave them be!! Either that, or quadruple the amount or more so that we have enough to buy the things you are planning for us.. It is bad enough I already have to use them for rep..

There is your second mistake!! Other games have already set the stage here!! The barber shop does not belong in the Cartel Market!! In fact the less you do with it the better!! The cartel market is for the F2P players to buy stuff and buy their unlocks.. I am a subscriber.. My stuff belongs in the game!!! Not the cash shop that requires more of my money!! See the difference there.. I am a subscriber.. My money has already been paid.. My stuff belongs in the game.. Not on the cash shop..

If you are going to make me pay for a hair cut, then in game credits is what we should be using.. If you are going to make me pay for rep, then in game credits is what we should be using.. I am a subscriber.. I shouldn't have to pay for anything else.. That is why I am a subscriber.. That is the entire point of being a subscriber.. So we don't have to pay extra..

If you want to ditch the subscriber model, then let me know and I will be on my way..

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  

If you'd like to make sure subscribers have access to these things Eric, simply give subscribers access. There's no need to confiscate the monthly grant to allow access. That destroys the entire illusion of giving subscribers the grant to begin with.

Customization is HUGE in MMOs, everyone likes to be slightly "unique". I fear you guys are taking that ability to be different to an extreme level at times.

Excellent post that addresses the concerns that I think many of us have about the market.

 

I think the Cartel Market should sell Barber Shop Tickets or whatever you want to call it, that are tradeable on the GTN. A good compromise, no?

People who are buying stuff to resell on the GTN specifically buy the things that will make the most profit for how much they spend. I guarantee these will be like everything else, IE auth. etc. where you see a f2p spamming chat for hours because he can not find one on the GTN. They will be good for a little while then drop off the planet as people realize no ones willing to pay good credits for them.

It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.

 

-eric

I've just copied and pasted this quote in a word file on my PC.

I hope this file stays there, unused, and I hope I will not have a reason to pull those words out in a distant, or near, future.

Thank you.

I'm really hoping titan project from blizzard comes out soon ,those guys know how to make games, these guys, know how to make a mess, and not clean it up.

Exactly.

I am a subscriber.. I shouldn't have to pay for anything else.. That is why I am a subscriber.. That is the entire point of being a subscriber.. So we don't have to pay extra..

 

If you want to ditch the subscriber model, then let me know and I will be on my way..

I'm not wanting to be rude or anything - but did you miss the whole 'SWTOR' is free to play' thing? They have alreay ditched the subscriber model.

You're playing a monthly sub to get a few add-ons in a free to play game. We all are.

I wanted to pop in and address some of your concerns about our barbershop and its use of Cartel Coins and not credits. There are a couple of design implications that go into these decisions I wanted to highlight in the hopes that it makes our decision in this regard a bit clearer.

 

• We very consciously design these systems around the fact that subscribers get monthly Cartel Coin grants. Pricing, etc. has these monthly grants in mind to ensure that our subscribers have access to these systems.
  
• We want to set the expectation that cosmetic systems like these are where you are going to see us use the Cartel Market. It is our continued philosophy that we will not implement a form of pay to win so cosmetic systems and other non-game impacting features are our best opportunities to make additions to the Cartel Market.
  

As we continue to release more information about our barbershop please continue to give us your feedback.

 

-eric

This is one of those times you were better off not explaining anything than putting this out there. It's only throwing oil on the fire. What you say and how this will go over will not be the same with the MMO crowd.

I'm not wanting to be rude or anything - but did you miss the whole 'SWTOR' is free to play' thing? They have alreay ditched the subscriber model.

 

You're playing a monthly sub to get a few add-ons in a free to play game. We all are.

This is partly true. Yes, they changed their model. Anyone who is expecting that as a subscriber, it's going to be at the same level as WoW players, where they have 10 million subscribers and everyone buys a $40 box, then you are kidding yourself.

On the other hand, based on the words of the developers themselves, they specifically, repeatedly have said that they want subscribers to feel that they have the best deal and they get a good value for their money. I understand that in order for this model to work, they have to put a lot of stuff on the cartel shop. I just want to feel that statement about subscribers feeling "valued" be true, but the direction it's been going feels like it's pulling away from that. Maybe once Makeb comes along I won't feel that way, I'm just voicing my concerns, and that's what community management is there for, to address community concerns.

Except the cartel market isn't 100% "purely" cosmetic, is it? Or with this statement, are you indicating that you will be removing everything that is not purely 100% cosmetic from the cartel market?

It is purely cosmetic.

There is no overpowered gear or buff being sold on the cartel market. There is nothing that will give you a direct advantage over a player who doesn't buy things from the cartel market.

It is purely cosmetic.

 

There is no overpowered gear or buff being sold on the cartel market. There is nothing that will give you a direct advantage over a player who doesn't buy things from the cartel market.

Yet ...

It is purely cosmetic.

 

There is no overpowered gear or buff being sold on the cartel market. There is nothing that will give you a direct advantage over a player who doesn't buy things from the cartel market.

Damn your group sounds like a broken god damn record ^^

I said this once in my thread.

Since people are of the "I don't care unless it affects me mindset." I never felt the affects of 1.1 repair bills where they were 3x higher then the repair costs that happened in 1.7. So I say bring that back. It never affected me at all since I make bank, but **** everyone else right?

I'm really hoping titan project from blizzard comes out soon ,those guys know how to make games, these guys, know how to make a mess, and not clean it up.

Ah yes, the Diablo III development and release was an excellent example of perfect execution, to which all game developers everywhere should seek to imitate. Nary a single problem to be found anywhere. Oh how I wish all games could be as flawless as DIII.

Damn your group sounds like a broken gosh darn record ^^

 

I said this once in my thread.

 

Since people are of the "I don't care unless it affects me mindset." I never felt the affects of 1.1 repair bills where they were 3x higher then the repair costs that happened in 1.7. So I say bring that back. It never affected me at all since I make bank, but **** everyone else right?

EXACTLY!!! I have zero intention of changing anything on my toons, in fact, they all have the exact same features as each other, except for my Imp Chiss, but he's perfect the way he is. However...customization is a BIG thing in MMOs.

Sadly, every bit of customization in this game is going to the Cartel Market. It DOES matter to people and I feel that some basics need to be tossed out to subscribers for free. Hair and eyes and skin tones at the very least...things like race, gender or even body styles are fine for the market, but subscribers should get a few basics for free imo.