I'm healing away, no one's even close to dying, the Sentinel who's tanking eats a scripted hit which I was already pre-casting to heal, and he hits the health pack on the ground and pulls the boss to the next one like I didn't even exist. This was earlier today, and similar situations to this have happened to me several times recently to the point where I'm really starting to wonder about the consideration shown for healers in tactical FPs.

 

On the one hand, it's perfectly reasonable and even quite good tank/aggro leader behavior for a healerless group. If the group is low and the healer can't keep up I also get it, but when you have a healer who's already bored to tears and the group grabs a health pack every time they drop more than 10% I find it quite rude. Perhaps it's not their intention behind it, but on some level there is no reason to touch the health pack unless you think you need it, ie you don't trust your healer.

 

My usual reaction is to mention it once, and if it happens again I quit healing and deal damage for the remainder of the FP or until the group asks me to start healing again and agrees to be more sparing with the health packs. Even laying all pride in my work aside, it's just no fun overhealing people who obviously don't want it when I could be contributing DPS. Am I being too harsh here? How do other healers react to this situation?

I no longer heal in Tactical FPs. I either queue as dps or immediately respec upon entering.

Should the group be a mass of low levels having difficulty managing their health then I may respec but I haven't run into that problem since early 4.0.

 

I too wish that roles actually felt needed in Tactical FPs. I hate facetanking when I'm running concealment, or getting pushback in IO. And by and large, no Tactical FP boss has enough health for me to get much farther than my opener before either invulnerable mechanics interrupt or the boss is dead.

 

I've more or less stopped queueing for Tactical FPs and only do 5 of them when double CXP is around.

an honest preference of mine would be to have group finder match 3 people (unless premade, then nothing changes) and whoever would not be present, tank, heal, dps would get a replacement 'god droid' for the last slot to supplement the party.

 

Invalidation of roles is bad, it bleeds into operations that *really* should have 2 tanks but are now tanked with one overstressed tank who didn't know what he was getting in to and one fauxtank scrub badmouthing everyone. (I exaggerate, granted. But that has been the majority of my more recent experiences)

 

TLDR: I hate vet fps, want the old trinity comps to come back and better incentives for Tanks/Heals to queue.

yeah, leveling as a healer used to be fun in the old sm flashpoints but now it's pointless. everyone just runs for the koltos as soon as they lose more than 2% of their hp. And now healers don't get to practise while leveling so there's tons of really bad healers everywhere. tactical fp are ****.

I feel your pain ... I invariably play as sage/sorc healer in all things but in vet fp's often wonder why ... the only time i feel useful is during trash mobs on the way to bosses with squishy dps's in the group, or occasionally in a low level group doing the sand storm boss in Czerka Core meltdown.

 

I've started running my imp healer as a lightning sorc just for ***** and giggles and get more "good heals" comments as that spec than when running as a heal spec ... go figure ...

 

when I run my tanks and get a "healer" I'll let them heal if they do ... if I'm not getting any heals from them I'll use kolto stations as needed and maybe say something if i can be bothered to. But generally if I have a healer in a group I'll let them do the heals and concentrate on dps/aggro holding.

 

What/why others do what they do is either not trusting or pig ignorance ... the first can be excused IF the healer isn't healing, the second can be cured ... lead injections work I'm told

I feel your pain ... I invariably play as sage/sorc healer in all things but in vet fp's often wonder why ... the only time i feel useful is during trash mobs on the way to bosses with squishy dps's in the group, or occasionally in a low level group doing the sand storm boss in Czerka Core meltdown.

 

I've started running my imp healer as a lightning sorc just for ***** and giggles and get more "good heals" comments as that spec than when running as a heal spec ... go figure ...

 

when I run my tanks and get a "healer" I'll let them heal if they do ... if I'm not getting any heals from them I'll use kolto stations as needed and maybe say something if i can be bothered to. But generally if I have a healer in a group I'll let them do the heals and concentrate on dps/aggro holding.

 

What/why others do what they do is either not trusting or pig ignorance ... the first can be excused IF the healer isn't healing, the second can be cured ... lead injections work I'm told

 

That's funny, I got a similar comment running my concealment op and that was with another healer in the group (the others thanked me by name). Well, I felt bad because I main a healer and I wasn't trying to show them up, it was just...necessary (all I'll say about that)...so my instincts took over and that was that. It actually surprised me how much healing I could do while dpsing. But it was still annoying. If I wanted to heal at that time I would have been running my healer.

I, too, am annoyed by derpies pressing healing stations when I'm around healing.

 

Oh well, they took over my job, I take over theirs and start derping.

Honestly I already feel useless as a Tank in Tacticals so I can only imagine how Healers must feel. While I haven't played in a few months back when I was still queueing for Group Finder almost every group's DPS would jump before I did, I know it's a tactical but since you have a Tank let me do my job. Honestly I agree with lymurra on the invalidation of roles, Tactical was originally just KDY which is pretty easy to do with a 4 DPS group and doesn't require a full group. But some FPs like Red Reaper are an add nightmare if your DPS are low level and you have no healers.

It's funny thinking that this "burn through everyzthing by DPS" mentality was probably develoiped by PvP peoiple ( I hold this theory ), but in the other hand there are numerous PvP players whining that PvP hass become so much boring with a tank + healer combo involved ... Because seemingly unkillable ... And that Ranked PvP is not possible without that combo in their eyes ... Edited November 26, 2017 by AlrikFassbauer

It's funny thinking that this "burn through everyzthing by DPS" mentality was probably develoiped by PvP peoiple ( I hold this theory ), but in the other hand there are numerous PvP players whining that PvP hass become so much boring with a tank + healer combo involved ... Because seemingly unkillable ... And that Ranked PvP is not possible without that combo in their eyes ...

 

"Burn through everything by dps" is a terrible pvp tactic and, if it was developed by pvp players, it was not developed by ones that are good at it.

I'd say it's more likely developed by people just soloing stuff, since almost everything apart from the harder modes of chapters and Eternal Championship can be done by that.

At least there are some mobs that a healer still comes in handy on if a group doesn't cooperate with CC / LOS tactics (See hammer station, pull with the 2 big droids in the beginning). I play mostly tanks, want to feel useless run tacticals as a tank with no healer.

In most cases it's just a reflex. Appears in the following situations:

- lazy, weak or low lvl healer;

- healer geared in trash;

- healer decided that he/she is dps;

- 2 or 1 low lvl members take(s) agro, all the time on the verge of death;

- low lvl slow moving but fast dying tank.

All of this strengthens this habit, many many times. So try not to take offense at players, who automatically use kolto stations. Perhaps they were in hell before meeting you - an experienced, well-equipped player, of course, who knows mechanics and never forgets the role.

Edited November 27, 2017 by xRohanx

I'm healing away, no one's even close to dying, the Sentinel who's tanking eats a scripted hit which I was already pre-casting to heal, and he hits the health pack on the ground and pulls the boss to the next one like I didn't even exist. This was earlier today, and similar situations to this have happened to me several times recently to the point where I'm really starting to wonder about the consideration shown for healers in tactical FPs.

 

On the one hand, it's perfectly reasonable and even quite good tank/aggro leader behavior for a healerless group. If the group is low and the healer can't keep up I also get it, but when you have a healer who's already bored to tears and the group grabs a health pack every time they drop more than 10% I find it quite rude. Perhaps it's not their intention behind it, but on some level there is no reason to touch the health pack unless you think you need it, ie you don't trust your healer.

 

My usual reaction is to mention it once, and if it happens again I quit healing and deal damage for the remainder of the FP or until the group asks me to start healing again and agrees to be more sparing with the health packs. Even laying all pride in my work aside, it's just no fun overhealing people who obviously don't want it when I could be contributing DPS. Am I being too harsh here? How do other healers react to this situation?

 

In an FP the group usually wants to get through as fast as possible - well in any content that is the case tbh. I play both healers and dps chars and in both cases I will make use of the heal stations when needed. As a healer I will often do it too, as I try to dps as much as possible, just to feel a bit less as a dead weight on the group.

 

And yes as a healer with a competent group tacticatls are not much fun, you are mostly a very, very poor dps. On the bright side it does give you the opportunity to practice dps'ing with a healer but that is it.

 

Now tacticals are not very challenging for any class if the group is at least somewhat skilled. (except for a few which are notably harder... the pair in and the extra boss in umbara, the one boss in depths of manaan and jos and valk come to mind). For the most part I would say that if you want to enjoy and feel needed as a healer run MM flashpoints or Operations / PVP.

 

Bottom line: don't take it personally. Most of the content in these FP's is quite old and people have done them many, many times so they want to get through them for the cxp as fast as possible.

Bottom line: don't take it personally. Most of the content in these FP's is quite old and people have done them many, many times so they want to get through them for the cxp as fast as possible.

 

well they would be getting through a lot faster if they focused on dpsing instead of just running from one kolto station to another

well they would be getting through a lot faster if they focused on dpsing instead of just running from one kolto station to another

 

Not true, add in that they give like a heal to full on almost all no matter whether they are stacked or not, ranged dps mostly doesn't even need to move to click them and the downtime if they are mistaken and the healer doesn't heal sufficiently and they die. The risk/reward is heavily in favor of using the stations with an unknown healer. Even with a good healer they can make sense.

 

For frustrated healers I would really recommend giving the mm flashpoints a try... no stations there.

For frustrated healers I would really recommend giving the mm flashpoints a try... no stations there.

 

Tbh I'm too scared to try those. Due to how happy people are to click the stations, I have no idea how good my healing is. When someone clicks a kolto station, I don't know if I would have been able to save them myself, and my ops success seems to vary from group to group. Sometimes no one drops below 70%, sometimes dps are dropping like flies while I'm spamhealing the tank.

Tbh I'm too scared to try those. Due to how happy people are to click the stations, I have no idea how good my healing is. When someone clicks a kolto station, I don't know if I would have been able to save them myself, and my ops success seems to vary from group to group. Sometimes no one drops below 70%, sometimes dps are dropping like flies while I'm spamhealing the tank.

 

I understand the feeling. I alternately have no idea how good of a dps I might be because I almost always end up in groups with no healers, no tanks, and I'm the only one watching the kolto stations. I also end up "tanking" more often than not ("tanking" even on non-faketank classes. Extremely squishy). I have also had a lot of ops runs lately where healers have never heard of a cleanse and/or I end up doing a lot of offhealing because the healers can't keep up.

 

I spend very little time dpsing on my dps toons lately. I main a healer so I have the instinct to help and not expect help from others, but I'm not above helping the group out even if I can't play the way I'd like on other toons.

Tbh I'm too scared to try those. Due to how happy people are to click the stations, I have no idea how good my healing is. When someone clicks a kolto station, I don't know if I would have been able to save them myself...

 

So you want a failsafe for your role, but if other players are using failsafe tactics you get angry?

 

A hint for you - if you are sometimes losing players in Vet FP, you most likely won't be able to heal PUG Master FP.

So you want a failsafe for your role, but if other players are using failsafe tactics you get angry?

 

I don't want a failsafe for my role. I hate the kolto stations as healer, and I dislike veteran FPs. What I want is to get the old story modes back (or something like that) so I can make sure I can easily heal those without someone clicking some failsafe mechanic as soon as someone takes damage due to standing in stupid before I move to master mode. However, that is not going to happen, so I'll settle to just healing SM ops and whining on the forums.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Seireeni

It would 've been more sensible to make the heal stations give a buff to compliment the team makeup - Extra heals when you have none, some extra DPS for low-level for fewer than 2 DPS or a damage mitigate and taunt buff for non-tank makeups.

 

They manage varying buffs in the Star Fortress, I don't see why this wasn't applied in the FPs.

 

On the flip-side, none of the Tactical FPs really needed any heals or buffs. -Unless you were very low-level or completely noobish. It just encouraged lazy playing and dependency on a get-out-of-jail free card.

 

Now there are so many of us on new merged servers, Tac FPs should be allowed to die, and real MMO-ing can take place- okay every now and again you get a bad group, but TBH I've never encountered one in all the time I've been Pugging away from my guild, so the occurrence must be pretty rare....

I don't heal in tactical FPs either like the other guy said. There's kolto stations. The FPs are built for any mix of classes including all DPS so no need to heal.

well tbh I sometimes use them as a lazy way 2 get aggro

 

if a bunch of adds pop then u can click kolto and mostly they come 2 attack u

 

I get that its annoying for ppl wanting to practice healing tho and I get why ppl r nervous about trying MM FP with the way some ppl talk in here :rolleyes:

 

if ure on malgus and want 2 try healing a MM FP with a tank that's rly not going 2 rage then msg me on here or in game :)

 

most MM FPs r rly ez, just a couple 2 avoid if ure not sure

Edited December 2, 2017 by CheeryCola

You aren't being rude, your teammates are being inconsiderate, and yes it is annoying. If they're going to try and fill the role you queued for by spamming the kolto stations they should say so at the start of the flashpoint so at least you know not to waste heals and just DPS.

 

It happens for two reasons:

 

1. People get used to running tacticals without a healer and some get stuck in the habit of spamming the kolto station, forgetting that they don't need to now that a healer is present.

 

2. DPS get used to solo content that is now mind-numbingly easy, paired with healbot companions that combined with weak enemies in solo content, that results in them never dipping below 95% health. Those players now panic once they step into group content and actually lose some health for once. Not infrequently it's paired with that DPS also ignoring mechanics (ex. standing in stupid) because they don't need to pay attention to mechanics when running heroics with their healbot. "OMG! My health dropped to 93%! I better spam kolto NOW before I die! Healer, there's no time!"

Edited December 3, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco

As a healer I get that people click the Kolto's, they're used to doing it as soon as they break a nail.

 

It happens, and it always will if only because most people don't trust the roles that the vet group finder throws up simply because a lot of people don't know how / can't be bothered to change their default role when queuing.

 

Having said that, the thing that really pees me off... I'm a healer, I queued as a healer, I am lvl70 and geared as a healer, I have been healing your arse through bosses and trash, you're still tapping kolto's, fine, whatever....

 

But if a party member drops at the last boss... don't summon your goddam comp to fill a role AND KEEP IT ON HEALING MODE!

 

*chews table in frustration*

Edited December 4, 2017 by tuulem

But if a party member drops at the last boss... don't summon your goddam comp to fill a role AND KEEP IT ON HEALING MODE!

 

*chews table in frustration*

 

Agreed. That's like the ultimate insult. Fortunately, that hasn't happened to me.

As a healer I get that people click the Kolto's, they're used to doing it as soon as they break a nail.

 

It happens, and it always will if only because most people don't trust the roles that the vet group finder throws up simply because a lot of people don't know how / can't be bothered to change their default role when queuing.

 

Having said that, the thing that really pees me off... I'm a healer, I queued as a healer, I am lvl70 and geared as a healer, I have been healing your arse through bosses and trash, you're still tapping kolto's, fine, whatever....

 

But if a party member drops at the last boss... don't summon your goddam comp to fill a role AND KEEP IT ON HEALING MODE!

 

*chews table in frustration*

 

If I'm on my Sage and someone dc's or drops and we use a companion as a replacement, I immediately ask them to set the companion to DPS. People have always gone along with it when I've asked, but if they didn't I would probably drop.

 

As annoying as kneejerk kolto spamming is, at least I can understand why that happens. It's like Pavlov's dog. The average tactical flashpoint is four DPS who need the kolto. Bringing out a healbot companion however when you have a healer in the group would just be insulting. Intended or not, you might as well be telling that healer that you don't trust him or her to do the role they queued for.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Aeneas_Falco