I haven't updated it yet, still working on determining some of the other classes having buffed themselves with Tremors, etc. Update coming with the weekend as usual.

 

*Looks at rules in OP* Nope, don't see anything against prestacking. And still don't see anything against cropping the front.

Ketupa - Shadow - Infiltration 5/36/5 - 2699 Time cropped within Torparse.com

 

Ketupa - Shadow - Infiltration 5/36/5 - 2700 Time cropped directly in the text file

 

Better gear than previously, did a test with more power and less crit. One shot parse, very lucky.

DG on-use power relic and an Arkanian power proc relic.

NO adrenals.

 

The hard crop explains the lesser APM.

*Looks at rules in OP* Nope, don't see anything against prestacking. And still don't see anything against cropping the front.

 

It's not spelled out explicitly, but cold-starting is implied by the rule that states specifically that endings can be trimmed. I think I've got the most to gain by going away from cold starts, but I'm fine with this board using that criteria. Once one reaches the understanding that it is a cold start, it is easy to expand that to mean, truly, a cold start and thus no pre-stacking.

 

I acknowledge that it's not in the original post, but these are pretty widely accepted rules for this thread.

Where does Airwolfe contend that Sythise pre-built focus/rage? I see in this post that he rightfully points out beastfury did. Did I miss something?

Not Slith i meant just the Beastfury. My bad. Edited June 26, 2013 by paowee

Ketupa - Shadow - Infiltration 5/36/5 - 2699 Time cropped within Torparse.com

 

Ketupa - Shadow - Infiltration 5/36/5 - 2700 Time cropped directly in the text file

 

Better gear than previously, did a test with more power and less crit. One shot parse, very lucky.

DG on-use power relic and an Arkanian power proc relic.

NO adrenals.

 

The hard crop explains the lesser APM.

 

no adrenals? very sexxy something to aim for when i have the time

 

wanted to ask what stats you are aiming for? always like to see peoples ideas of BIS

Edited June 26, 2013 by Sam_WarDragon

That wasn't offensive, no problem.

 

Well first, 5 parses to judge a gear isn't enough, neither 10 parses, but that's not the point.

If I look some of your parsing sessions, I can see that sometimes you have fight of 2-3 minutes length, I presume you're watching your dps live with a standalone client.

If so, it explains why you stop before the 5 minutes and why you can never observe a real bad luck parse.

You're the first one to tell me infiltration doesn't have a big gap, I know that my stuff is too crit-dependant, but I can't see the stats that will allow a max gap of 100dps, if you have unusual ratings, I'll be happy to know them

 

For the second part about being competitive, well I never talked about that, I'll attribute that to the fact you were drunk

 

5 parses has always worked well for me. I take that and then use it in a raid and see how it goes. 9 times out of 10 my findings prove to be accurate. As far as my parses are concerned, i dont parse for leader boards very often. I usually parse for 2 mins because thats when all our CDS come back up (except adrenals) and find that if i keep on my rotation I can predict where my parse will end up at. ITs just a faster way of testing. Pre 2.0 i never even posted 5 min parses because for me its rough on deception because we werent built to bang on something consistently for 5 mins str8. We are a burst dps class that excels in fights where you move around alot allowing our force to regen where we can unload every time on a boss. The only reason i ever posted on leader boards is because i was pushed to do it from guildies. For me its too damn expensive when you are using adrenals lol Makes me wish i was biochem I must say tho i do love these discussions because for so long i have been the only Sin dps my guilds have trusted in progression and its nice to see that there are people out there getting even better numbers then me. It pushes me to be better and honestly makes the game alot more fun considering the old recycled content was beginning to bore me.

A) These parses are not single 5 minute+ parses but 2 or 3 shorter parses combined in to 1.

 

If the parse was "clipping" itself without your knowledge due to lag or the way combat data is collected or some other issue, how can you be called a cheater? Cheating requires intent to deceive which, as i stated, i don't believe to be the case. If that was happening and it did affect your dps totals that would invalidate your parse IMO.

 

B) Both of these parsers have found an exploit in the way SWTOR and/or TORparse upload combat data

 

Using an exploit or bug in the game isn't (IMO) cheating (i.e. PvP SA relics double proc). It is not my job to validate parses and make sure the game is working as intended. Those are the jobs of Bioware and MisterMuse. When Bioware changed the relics, MisterMuse and the owners of similar leader boards re-validated parses and changed their rules accordingly. I would, however, be remiss in my duties as a participant in this thread and game, if i didn't point out something that i noticed that looked "off". IMO, getting the answers to these 3 questions:

1) Is this correct?

2) Why is this happening?

3) Is this OK?

goes hand in hand with pointing out a potential issue. That's exactly what I did. I assure you that if i was going to accuse someone of cheating 3 things would happen:

1) I'd be a grown man about it and call that person out directly.

2) I'd have proof to support my claim.

3) If i was proven wrong I would issue a public apology.

If you read my original post on this and felt like i was implying something more than what was written, that is on you, not on me. I hope this fully clears things up, as i now consider this matter closed and will not be posting on it again.

 

Examining the parse, i agree with Slith that the way DPS is calculated on TorParse seems to be... something... the 4s lull with no damage dealt seems to reset the DPS calculation (hence why the DPS spike is 10,880 and the Damage Dealt in that second is... 10,880).

 

I appreciate someone actually taking a look at this. Thank you.

 

Disregarding the spikes, if you take the total dmg done and divide it by the duration you get the same DPS.

 

3126 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/302905/tim...594/0/Overview

1276728 dmg done / 408 seconds = 3126 DPS

 

I agree, the numbers are not off and this appears to be some kind of hiccup in the way the graph is generated. Gratz on an awesome parse to both you and Roovin. I also consider this matter closed.

...

wanted to ask what stats you are aiming for? always like to see peoples ideas of BIS

That's a difficult question

In fact since combat log is available, I decide with dummy parses, like you but with an average of 10 parses per stats change. But on the other hand I keep saying that it's not the best way, yeah it's paradoxal , but sometimes luck (or bad luck) can distort the conclusion.

I'm curious and when I see other ideas I like to test them (when I have enough gear), high dps shadows like you or Aranelde or even pure math calculations like on the mmo-mechanics thread, but I have to do choices because I don't have enough gear to switch all the stats.

So short story : I don't know, I was a long time until recently with 25% of crit chance, under 98% accuracy and 72-74% surge, my latest parse was made with 21.76% crit chance for power gain. (I can give precise ratings if you want)

It's not sufficient for conclusions, I don't know for my next raid and so even less for 75 stuff.

 

I like too, that there are several good dps shadows so we can discuss and compare, before 2.0 it was more difficult with infiltration comparison.

I'm curious about your stats because your curve (in your 2672dps parse) is quite flat like you were less lucky burst dependant.

 

Sadly I made a gear choice that is not giving good result with balance, even if it's less fun now I think I do well with the rotation. During 1.7 I had one gear set for both specs, and it was perfect.

In real fights I'm missing perhaps something in FiB and DoTs optimisation, or perhaps a tank placement thing we have to discuss.

 

I do dummy parses since pre-2.0 because it was always useful for me, and it's always funny to have a goal to aim for.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2013 by a-n-i-k-i

Balance is super simple now. Make sure you'll have enough force to land FiB the instant it comes off cool down, also keep sever force and force breech up obviously but its better to reapply them like a quarter of a second after they call off than before so your not trimming the last tick, double strike to fill use saber strike when around 25% force blah blah blah. Useind crush when it get procced blah blah

 

Force in balance>sever force (if not already applied)>= procced mind crush>force breach (if not already applied)>double strike/saber strike to fill.

Balance is super simple now. ...

 

I was talking in a raid situation

Yes, the rotation is simpler than before, but I prefer to say it's less fun than before.

But great dps comes from details, and I miss those details during a raid.

As I said just before, I think I do well with Balance but only on dummy right now.

I improved my gear for balance since yesterday, but I don't know if it's the good gear for raid yet.

I made very few tries in raid with this spec (since 2.0), and I'm waiting to retest.

 

So I did some dummy parses this last hour, had luck for one parse.

(I don't know if I can post for two specs, I prefer to keep infiltration, previous page for infiltration)

 

Ketupa - Shadow - Balance 8/2/36 - 2698 Time cropped within Torparse.com

 

Ketupa - Shadow - Balance 8/2/36 - 2699 Time cropped directly in the text file

thats a nice balance parse,im convinced my gear is holding my parses back, still lots of 69's and all my enhancements are still high endurance, sinc ei main spec a tank my dps gear gets the sloppy seconds.

I am seeing that you Saber strike alot more than i do, at what percentage do you default to saberstrike as a filler rather than DS?

 

also what relics are you using ? underworld SA and a clicky power?

I am seeing that you Saber strike alot more than i do, at what percentage do you default to saberstrike as a filler rather than DS?

 

I use Saber Strike when I have to prepare Force for DoTs refresh and when I don't have a power boost at that moment, it's more a feeling in fact.

For the difference about our two parses, I don't know if we can compare because I just saw you don't use Sever Force. Is it really the case ?

4. Another player is not allowed to assist with Bloodthirst/Inspiration, armour debuff, etc during the logging.

 

Would it be possible to expain the reasoning behind this rule?

 

I guess it boils down to what the goal of this thread is. If the participants only see it as a standalone competition with no relation to 'real' operations scenarions then likely imposing such a rule does make sense as otherwise for top performance always outside assistance is required.

 

If, however, the goal is to gain insight that will help to gauge the relative performance of the various classes and specs compared to each other that rule is detrimental as it clearly favors classes and specs that either provide an armor debuff themselves or benefit less from it than usual. Typical examples would be Arsenal Merc/Gunnery Commando vs. Pyrotech Merc/Tactics Commando (one has the armor debuff, the other does not) or Carnage Marauder/Combat Sentinel vs. Rage Marauder/Force sentinel (one spends 9 seconds out of every 20 hitting a target with no armor anyways making the armor debuff less essential, while the other due to 30% armor penetration would profit even more from the armor debuff). Not to mention it makes it harder to compare different classes. I personally would be curious to know how big the gap between a Focus Sentinel and a Focus Guardian is, but the Guardian's armor debuff skews that picture.

 

So why not allow at least the armor debuff? Bloodlust/Inspiration is trickier, as you would need one very specific class supporting you to pull this off. Also the flat 15% damage bonus it provides should benefit (or its absence harm) all classes and specs more or less equally. The only valid counterargument would be that this would make external help mandatory for top performance, which is a good point.

 

Just a suggestion.

I use Saber Strike when I have to prepare Force for DoTs refresh and when I don't have a power boost at that moment, it's more a feeling in fact.

For the difference about our two parses, I don't know if we can compare because I just saw you don't use Sever Force. Is it really the case ?

 

No I do use sever force, in my 18-0-28 hybrid though there is no sever force, you may be looking at that parse.

Would it be possible to expain the reasoning behind this rule?

 

I guess it boils down to what the goal of this thread is. If the participants only see it as a standalone competition with no relation to 'real' operations scenarions then likely imposing such a rule does make sense as otherwise for top performance always outside assistance is required.

 

If, however, the goal is to gain insight that will help to gauge the relative performance of the various classes and specs compared to each other that rule is detrimental as it clearly favors classes and specs that either provide an armor debuff themselves or benefit less from it than usual. Typical examples would be Arsenal Merc/Gunnery Commando vs. Pyrotech Merc/Tactics Commando (one has the armor debuff, the other does not) or Carnage Marauder/Combat Sentinel vs. Rage Marauder/Force sentinel (one spends 9 seconds out of every 20 hitting a target with no armor anyways making the armor debuff less essential, while the other due to 30% armor penetration would profit even more from the armor debuff). Not to mention it makes it harder to compare different classes. I personally would be curious to know how big the gap between a Focus Sentinel and a Focus Guardian is, but the Guardian's armor debuff skews that picture.

 

So why not allow at least the armor debuff? Bloodlust/Inspiration is trickier, as you would need one very specific class supporting you to pull this off. Also the flat 15% damage bonus it provides should benefit (or its absence harm) all classes and specs more or less equally. The only valid counterargument would be that this would make external help mandatory for top performance, which is a good point.

 

Just a suggestion.

 

I suggested in my last post a "Top 10" list where an amour debuff would be allowed to compare between classes but with no response. This list is more to evaluate parses within each class. Not allowing an armor debuff has become rather standard for DPS Boards in Swtor.

I agree with the above stated. Parsing without armor debuffs is a standard. It's also relatively simple to recalculate DPS with the assumption armor debuffs were present.

More interesting than armour debuffs would be below 30% hp. Wish there was a dummy that had constat hp at 29% or so. Edited June 29, 2013 by Berjiz

MisterMuse just post the category out there in your front page and i'm sure people will fill that space up. Particularly Marauders, Sorcs, PTs and the Sin DPS . I'm pretty sure a lot of us people have this thread subscribed to . I guess you can start by putting a Sniper/Slinger (non engineering/saboteur please..) Jugg and Arsenal/Gunnery parse on that category. Edited June 29, 2013 by paowee

MisterMuse just post the category out there in your front page and i'm sure people will fill that space up. Particularly Marauders, Sorcs, PTs and the Sin DPS . I'm pretty sure a lot of us people have this thread subscribed to . I guess you can start by putting a Sniper/Slinger (non engineering/saboteur please..) Jugg and Arsenal/Gunnery parse on that category.

 

Wait! I need BT first! hehe

Wait! I need BT first! hehe

i thot it was only armor pen for all classes not BT?

i thot it was only armor pen for all classes not BT?

 

well if we're gonna give one, might as well give all

well if we're gonna give one, might as well give all

 

Wait a minute....am I about to get a free license to make everyone else cry?

Nithnuro - Sniper - Marksman 36/3/7 - 3009.2

http://www.torparse.com/a/314166/2/0/Overview

Edited June 29, 2013 by LordCJK

Just discovered this thread

Its a shame with the PT/VG parses that are here, we are not that far behind the rest

Thoric - 2/22/22 - 2965

Edited June 29, 2013 by MoJozor