I love it when the bad players band together, exactly like madis gras, only they find each other online.

Give em hell shifty these bads no nothing of end game, clearly.

Trying to justify having the same gear as the elite? Face it, you don't deserve it bads thats why you love it

Okay maybe I responded in a huff, sorry about that. While I do get that you want to be awarded for your effort (of course everyone does) it's still a game that changes and evolves. Your example of being paid the same as someone else simply by showing up may piss you off, but it does occur in the real world. Following along that analogy, I think you should feel comfortable knowing that, even though these other folks can get their gear with less committed effort as you had put in, they will not have gained the experience you had. Which ultimately means, you should be better off then them when new (hopefully harder) content arrives.

 

MMOs aren't supposed to be stagnant things. You're on top because you got there first and beat the content, everyone else is playing catch up. BW just made it easier for folks to catch up.

 

There's a positive to this too. It means that when new content rolls out, you'll have many more geared players to do that content with, as opposed to having to do this "LFM HM:EC must be geared, blahblah" for an hour. The other positive is obviously for folks that are gearing up a second (or more) alt with campaign gear. It makes the whole legacy thing with alts viable without making people feel like it's an impossible grind to get their secondary characters up to snuff.

 

All I can say is, chill, try to enjoy the game and perhaps even help some of these folks get into EC since their gear will be better.

You raise some good points, but it is too early to make it easier to get and it still feels like a f***ing slap in the face to those of us that put the time and effort in.

As for gearing up alts, HM EC can be cleared in s*** gear, it's just a matter of learning the mechanics. If you have put the effort into doing this on your main, gearing up your alt is going to be easy.

It is fine to make good gear easy to get in preparation for new content, but don't make it the best gear in the game, that just leaves us fully geared with nothing to do for months, as if we're not going to move on to a different game when that happens.

I love it when the bad players band together, exactly like madis gras, only they find each other online.

 

Give em hell shifty these bads no nothing of end game, clearly.

 

Trying to justify having the same gear as the elite? Face it, you don't deserve it bads thats why you love it

Hahahahahaha!!! <3

Honestly it wouldn't be so hard for bioware to change the stats on the BH and Campaign armor to make it more of a difference at least I assume it wouldn't be that big of a problem since they have done it with pvp gear before. Honestly I'd love to be doing HM EC to get campaign gear if only for social armors and other unique looking gear to dress my characters however.

Exactly. Reduce every stat on BH gear by a couple, then there is still a point to getting Campaign. Although they'd have to itemise the Champaign a bit better for this to work.... But I guess if I had to get 8 Campaign helms to get the mods I wanted it would keep me busy for quite a while.

If the issue is that some people, depending on their class and spec, can get BiS or very near to BiS gear without setting foot in HM EC, then HM EC was obsolete the second it came out. Getting BH comms outside of HM EC has been possible since they released the content. The only issue now is the rate at which non raiders can get that gear, which is why the 5 BH comms should be changed to 6 BH comms and it should be changed to a weekly, except lets be honest that many of us would never queue for group finder if those 5 BH comms weren't the low hanging fruit that they are.

So lets be honest about the real issue here. Campaign was itemized badly.

As a gunnery commando anyway I feel absolutely confident in saying that I can get best in slot gear on everything but my mainhand, just by getting the pieces I need and doing some stat balancing. Ironically the only enhancement I can't get from BH is the high crit high accuracy enhancements, but I can get them for power/accuracy so I'll just get my accuracy from there and the implants, and then put power/surge or crit/surge everywhere else.

Otherwise I can get the high crit and high power mods from BH gear which are better than the 68 Aim/12 Power or 68 Aim/12 Crit mods in some of the campaign gear, and I can put high aim armorings in all but the body piece but even campaign can't help me there since I have to screw with set bonuses to get the 68 aim armoring from Combat Tech body.

This is just bad itemization on the part of BW, and so it turns out the only advantage there ever was to HM EC was getting that gear a bit quicker.

If the issue is that some people, depending on their class and spec, can get BiS or very near to BiS gear without setting foot in HM EC, then HM EC was obsolete the second it came out. Getting BH comms outside of HM EC has been possible since they released the content. The only issue now is the rate at which non raiders can get that gear, which is why the 5 BH comms should be changed to 6 BH comms and it should be changed to a weekly, except lets be honest that many of us would never queue for group finder if those 5 BH comms weren't the low hanging fruit that they are.

 

So lets be honest about the real issue here. Campaign was itemized badly.

 

As a gunnery commando anyway I feel absolutely confident in saying that I can get best in slot gear on everything but my mainhand, just by getting the pieces I need and doing some stat balancing. Ironically the only enhancement I can't get from BH is the high crit high accuracy enhancements, but I can get them for power/accuracy so I'll just get my accuracy from there and the implants, and then put power/surge or crit/surge everywhere else.

 

Otherwise I can get the high crit and high power mods from BH gear which are better than the 68 Aim/12 Power or 68 Aim/12 Crit mods in some of the campaign gear, and I can put high aim armorings in all but the body piece but even campaign can't help me there since I have to screw with set bonuses to get the 68 aim armoring from Combat Tech body.

 

This is just bad itemization on the part of BW, and so it turns out the only advantage there ever was to HM EC was getting that gear a bit quicker.

Yes they did a terrible job itemising the gear and you've had to buy BH gear to strip for mods from day 1 (personally I kinda liked this cause it gave me more to do, but that's just me).

But HM EC only became obsolete with 1.3 because you couldn't get BiS gear without running it prior to that. You had to run it for the armorings so you can chuck them in orange critted gear so you could get the set bonus and an augment. Now you can just chuck an augment kit on to T/C/R sets to get the set bonus and an augment.

You keep coming back and stating over and over your original assertion. And in a sense, sure, it's true. But what you are apparently failing to fairly consider is the required time investment a person would have to make for it to be perfectly true. 2 months doing DF randoms every single day + 2 DF operations per week. Add in NiM KP and the Rakhgoul weekly and you can do it faster, but face it, at that point, you're not looking at some "casual scrub" anymore. You're looking at someone who would probably be a very real asset to your highfaultin' HM EC clearin' raid team.

And if you need to replace a loss to your raid team with someone new, wouldn't you prefer to have them in good gear? Because let's face it, you DO need good gear for HM EC. Or do you truly want your little elitist end game raiding club to become super inbred like happens in so many other games?

You keep coming back and stating over and over your original assertion. And in a sense, sure, it's true. But what you are apparently failing to fairly consider is the required time investment a person would have to make for it to be perfectly true. 2 months doing DF randoms every single day + 2 DF operations per week. Add in NiM KP and the Rakhgoul weekly and you can do it faster, but face it, at that point, you're not looking at some "casual scrub" anymore. You're looking at someone who would probably be a very real asset to your highfaultin' HM EC clearin' raid team.

 

And if you need to replace a loss to your raid team with someone new, wouldn't you prefer to have them in good gear? Because let's face it, you DO need good gear for HM EC. Or do you truly want your little elitist end game raiding club to become super inbred like happens in so many other games?

You can easily clear HM EC in rakata gear and as such I'm more than happy to recruit people in rakata for my elitist guild. In fact I'm happy to recruit people wearing greens, as long as they have skill, cause BioWare keep ruining the game and all the good players quit, so it's worth putting the effort in to gearing up that 1 in a thousand good player you come across.

Why do people get so upset about good players being proud of being good and wanting to be properly rewarded for it? Is it envy? Jealousy? Do you just want a pat on the back and told you're good too? Well you're not and you don't deserve to lied to like that.

You can easily clear HM EC in rakata gear and as such I'm more than happy to recruit people in rakata for my elitist guild. In fact I'm happy to recruit people wearing greens, as long as they have skill, cause BioWare keep ruining the game and all the good players quit, so it's worth putting the effort in to gearing up that 1 in a thousand good player you come across.

 

Why do people get so upset about good players being proud of being good and wanting to be properly rewarded for it? Is it envy? Jealousy? Do you just want a pat on the back and told you're good too? Well you're not and you don't deserve to lied to like that.

^ is kinda rediculous. I myself am a fine pve player got some rough edges, but my guild is casual and I'm fine with that good people. Sure I join some pugs for EC since everyone seems short of healers, but I'm just fine being in a casual guild of casual raiding (for now anyway), but seriously thats just insulting.

Besides properly rewarding players yes should come from gear or other unique items, but also titles!

Yes they did a terrible job itemising the gear and you've had to buy BH gear to strip for mods from day 1 (personally I kinda liked this cause it gave me more to do, but that's just me).

But HM EC only became obsolete with 1.3 because you couldn't get BiS gear without running it prior to that. You had to run it for the armorings so you can chuck them in orange critted gear so you could get the set bonus and an augment. Now you can just chuck an augment kit on to T/C/R sets to get the set bonus and an augment.

I disagree with this in a general sense, though maybe it was true for specific classes (I have no problem believing this was true for tanks).

Basically if your set bonus isn't tied to the right kind of armoring (high main stat vs high end) then the gain you got from the augment was at best very minor compared to the one you got from sticking a better main stat armoring in Rakata.

But ok fair enough. Technically you could call that a BiS situation, but then the issue ISN'T that people can get BH comms and buy gear with the same level mods. It's that people can get augment kits and make their rakata gear augmented.

I disagree with this in a general sense, though maybe it was true for specific classes (I have no problem believing this was true for tanks).

 

Basically if your set bonus isn't tied to the right kind of armoring (high main stat vs high end) then the gain you got from the augment was at best very minor compared to the one you got from sticking a better main stat armoring in Rakata.

 

But ok fair enough. Technically you could call that a BiS situation, but then the issue ISN'T that people can get BH comms and buy gear with the same level mods. It's that people can get augment kits and make their rakata gear augmented.

The issue is a combination of the fact that they can get 61 mods and augment rakata gear.

Either of these alone isn't a big deal. Being able to augment rakata gear but only having 58 mods in it would be fine or being able to put 61 mods in rakata gear but not being able to augment it too would be fine. Both these leave a situation where you can't get BiS gear without running the hardest content, which is how it should be. But when you combine being able to augment rakata gear with being able to get 61 mods for it, it leaves you with a situation where you can get BiS gear without setting foot in the hardest content. It's just stupid.

MMO'S Don't just cater to "hardcore" raiders without a "causal" player base most of these games would die in the as> and since where trowing labels around most of your problems come form your "elitism" attitude what do you really care you have your gear get over yourself

You do realise it's extremely easy to cater to both yeah? In fact pre 1.3 swtor did cater to both.

I can't really understand your horrible grammar, but I'll assume you were attempting to insult me for being an elitist. The truth of the matter is, I'm not actually an elitist, I just think everyone should be rewarded on their merits. Giving everyone the same reward no matter their skill/time/effort level is ridicules and I'm pretty sure if you had ever been good at something and the lazy/bads around you had been rewarded the same for it you wouldn't be happy about it either.

But that isn't even my main problem, I wouldn't care less if bads around me were wearing the same gear as me, as long as I still had something to do in the game. I'm upset by this patch because it eliminated any need for me to play it. I have cleared everything and have all BiS gear. I was fairly close to this before the patch, but I still had a 2-8 weeks to go, depending on how good my rolls were.

Sure, as a person that actually put the effort in to becoming a good player, it annoys me that bads get equally rewarded to me, why wouldn't it? But, like I said, it's not the main reason I'm upset.

If people around me are bad its because i have fail to help them improve,if your out of stuff to do in game that not other fault that's your own as for time and effort well not every one has the time so should they miss out or be left behind as for effort your right its nice to see other put in the effort u do so surround yourself with those that do. your complaints are just the fact your bitter that not every one has to do what you did (and many others your not special there) to get your gear. facts are fact this is a game if your this upset about a game RL must be hard for you

God this is incoherent, let me try to decode what you're saying.

"If people around me are bad its because i have fail to help them improve" I'm guess here you're trying to say I should waste my time carrying people and teaching them how to play?... I don't play games to hold noobs hands.

"if your out of stuff to do in game that not other fault that's your own" Ummm, are you trying to say me running out of content to run and gear to acquire is my fault?... I don't work for BioWare and they're the only ones in charge of content and gear, so it's 100% on them. If I had a say over what happens in the game, trust me, no one would be out of things to do.

"as for time and effort well not every one has the time so should they miss out or be left behind" No, but they shouldn't be equally rewarded either. In 1.2 they could get pretty damn near BiS gear, but they couldn't get actual BiS gear. That's the way it should be.

"as for effort your right its nice to see other put in the effort u do so surround yourself with those that do" I do... But there is no point in it any more.

" your complaints are just the fact your bitter that not every one has to do what you did (and many others your not special there) to get your gear." Wow it is actually a lot easier to ready your **** when I break it up. You know, like '.' and ',' would if you spent 5 minutes paying attention in class and learnt about them. Also learning the difference between 'your' and 'you're' would help you out a lot. Your (hahahaha I make me laugh) kind of right here, that is one of the things that is bugging me; but as I stated before, my main complaint is the fact that they removed any reason for me to play the game.

" facts are fact this is a game if your this upset about a game RL must be hard for you" Fact are facts? Really?!?!?!? This is a game, your facts are facts are spot on there. I don't know if RL is hard for me though, I haven't bothered with it in many years.

it was clearly coherent enough to decode what i said

if its so bad offer an alternative

I never said carry people i said help big difference but i doubt you would understand that since your where born pro

you are you're your i forgot every ones grammar Nazi with spell check

In 1.2 they could get pretty damn near BiS gear, but they couldn't get actual BiS gear. That's the way it should be.

Fact are facts? Really?!?!?!? This is a game, your facts are facts are spot on there. I don't know if RL is hard for me though, I haven't bothered with it in many years

i hope this wall of txt is space far enough apart for you now

Yes, you have. Many of them. You just disagree. You do realize that it's highly likely that by the time anybody who doesn't fit your very narrow definition of deserving of this stuff can get it, NiM EC will be out, and it will no longer be BiS. Your personal benefit to doing HM EC is that you get two things. First, you get it way, WAY sooner, so you have that much more time to feel superior. Second, you have more choices by having access to that Campaign gear. Enjoy it instead of raging that somebody you don't feel lives up to your standard might eventually be able to get gear that is equivalent.

If NM EC is out in the next 6 weeks I will retract everything I have said on this post. But having cleared HM EC in rakata gear, I'm sure you'd be able to clear NM EC in BH gear which you could get without doing HM EC prior to 1.3.

HM EC was the first time they made PvE challenging in this game, but they still didn't make it anywhere near challenging enough. 4 bosses? And most of them learnable in less than a night? Ridicules.

I don't know if my definition of deserving is narrow, clearing the hardest content to get the best gear only seems logical. Do you disagree with this? If so, why?

This is what I don't get: who PvEs just for gear? I PvE to beat the content. I don't care if some people have gear that's almost as good as what comes from HM EC. I'm doing HM EC for my own personal benefit. Should I care that someone is decked out in level 61 mods but haven't done HM EC or Nightmare Pilgrim? It's their loss, not mine.

You people seem to be making this purely about what other people are wearing, that's only a tiny part of the issue. The key reason I'm pissed off is cause now there is no point in running HM EC. I still needed gear from there, then over night they removed any any need for me to run it.

Sure it was a hell of a lot of fun running the place for the first few weeks, but once you have it on farm the fun that comes from it is getting gear and talking **** on Vent with your mates. Remove the getting gear and you're left with something you can do on any other game and no reason to play this one.

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You people seem to be making this purely about what other people are wearing, that's only a tiny part of the issue. The key reason I'm pissed off is cause now there is no point in running HM EC. I still needed gear from there, then over night they removed any any need for me to run it.

 

Sure it was a hell of a lot of fun running the place for the first few weeks, but once you have it on farm the fun that comes from it is getting gear and talking **** on Vent with your mates. Remove the getting gear and you're left with something you can do on any other game and no reason to play this one.

But what you harp on, over and over and over, is that anyone who isn't doing HM EC can, right now, get gear that's roughly equivalent, though over a far longer timeframe. How the "bads" (not sure if you've used the term or not, but someone trying to lend support to you has, at least) shouldn't be getting the same gear. How THIS specifically has taken away the reason to do HM EC.

As if your only real goal is to get the gear. So what I'm suggesting to you is that maybe you're in it for the wrong reasons. Shouldn't you be fully geared up by now anyway, what with HM EC being out for as long as it is? So how does the fact that you can get full BH gear in a few months impact your reason to do HM EC after EC has been out long enough to be fully geared anyway. Ignore what BH comms you've gotten, or only use it to gear up companions. Or shelve that character and bring out another one. If you haven't figured out that the quantity and quality of content is only good for someone with a ton of time by doing it with multiple alts, then you should probably take a good hard look at the overall game design.

Admittedly, you might not require a ton of time, but generally people who don't, are part of long term hardcore raid forces that have been together for years, and you can't design raiding in a game's early life to be challenging for those folks.