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How to Become a Contender: Supplemental(Bolster, PvP Gear, and You)


L-RANDLE

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Actually, no. There's an upper limit to the total amount you want. If you add (69 + 63 + 61), you get that limit; 193. At 66+66+66=198, you're 5 points over the bolster limit and your expertise begins to get nerfed (assuming you're talking about PvE mods).

 

This isn't entirely correct, is it? If it were a straight 193 cap, you could do a 78/78/37 could you not, or other such combos?

Edited by BuckeyeChris
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Hmmm, interesting. How many wzs did you try?

 

If you look at his screenshots, the blue 46s actually bolster the best. I think he was referring to the character level required or something rather than the mod level number when placed in gear.

 

I was hoping someone would try with purple 46s to see if that bolstered even better. I'm too lazy and too much of a cheapskate to try it myself and was hoping someone on the forums would do it for me :p

 

Those are my screenshots.

 

Regarding the purple 46s, they bolster worse than the blues.

 

Regarding my testing, I've done plenty of warzones with both but due to the constant variables in warzones I couldn't determine a trend. Therefore I created an experiment with some controls, I sat with someone in a warzone and arranged to test it (max expertise target, no proccing power relics, and multiple tests with the two different weapons). You hit significantly less using the blue 45 mods in all slots of the MH on weapon damage attacks than compared to the 69,63,61.

 

Despite the character sheet and ability tooltips displaying the 45s mods in all slots to be the best for MH weapon it does not appear this way after my testing.

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Those are my screenshots.

 

Regarding the purple 46s, they bolster worse than the blues.

 

Regarding my testing, I've done plenty of warzones with both but due to the constant variables in warzones I couldn't determine a trend. Therefore I created an experiment with some controls, I sat with someone in a warzone and arranged to test it (max expertise target, no proccing power relics, and multiple tests with the two different weapons). You hit significantly less using the blue 45 mods in all slots of the MH on weapon damage attacks than compared to the 69,63,61.

 

Despite the character sheet and ability tooltips displaying the 45s mods in all slots to be the best for MH weapon it does not appear this way after my testing.

 

You know... if there were any way to do it, and assuming we had enough mods available to swap out and test, I would love to get some folks together and devote a few days and maybe a few dozen warzomes to testing this.

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Actually, no. There's an upper limit to the total amount you want. If you add (69 + 63 + 61), you get that limit; 193. At 66+66+66=198, you're 5 points over the bolster limit and your expertise begins to get nerfed (assuming you're talking about PvE mods). Any PvP mods can total up to 201 (highest level PvP mods available at the moment; Obroan) and you're still okay.

 

Ok, so 66+66+61 would be ok? And purple or blue doesn't matter in this calculation?

 

 

Always loved that quote. Also liked, "Feed a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Feed him to the fishes and he'll never bother you again."

 

Very good :)

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As I looked into this further and saw what others have documented, I think it might have more to do with item rating versus item level. So in the case of same level items say 66 blue has an item rating of like 140, but the purple 66 is like 148, or something like that. In total to get full EXP, you can't go over like 460 item rating in one particular piece.

 

I also would not be surprised if the lvl 45 blues are another cutoff for bolster mechanics on weapons...

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As I looked into this further and saw what others have documented, I think it might have more to do with item rating versus item level. So in the case of same level items say 66 blue has an item rating of like 140, but the purple 66 is like 148, or something like that. In total to get full EXP, you can't go over like 460 item rating in one particular piece.

 

I also would not be surprised if the lvl 45 blues are another cutoff for bolster mechanics on weapons...

 

I asked for clarification on the item rating issue, and Tait brought brought back the developers' response as:

The post mentions an “item rating.” Is this an internal abstraction, or does this correspond to the actual item level seen in the item/mod’s description?

 

The item rating this refers to is the item rating that can be seen in the item’s description.

 

So, yeah, it looks like "item level" and "item rating" are two different properties, which makes sense, it would just be nice if the terminology was clearer. IIRC, not every item actually lists an "item rating", and "item level" doesn't always mean the level required to use the item, so it's kind of strange.

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I asked for clarification on the item rating issue, and Tait brought brought back the developers' response as:

 

 

So, yeah, it looks like "item level" and "item rating" are two different properties, which makes sense, it would just be nice if the terminology was clearer. IIRC, not every item actually lists an "item rating", and "item level" doesn't always mean the level required to use the item, so it's kind of strange.

 

The way mod numbers work is a pet peeve of mine. I understand that there is a need for different numbers. Like class level needed to use the item vs level of the mod. But why is a level 28 mod identified as 66 when you put it into gear? Why not just identify the mod as 28 when you put it into gear. The number doesn't change whether it's green, blue, or purple. So changing the number to a different number makes absolutely no sense. What am I overlooking?

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The way mod numbers work is a pet peeve of mine. I understand that there is a need for different numbers. Like class level needed to use the item vs level of the mod. But why is a level 28 mod identified as 66 when you put it into gear? Why not just identify the mod as 28 when you put it into gear. The number doesn't change whether it's green, blue, or purple. So changing the number to a different number makes absolutely no sense. What am I overlooking?

 

Well, for the armoring slot item rating is more applicable anyway since that is what contributes to your total armor rating. That's one thing people need to keep in mind for those particular pieces. I think just having item rating alone is enough for us to be able to determine what pieces we should wear.

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Well, for the armoring slot item rating is more applicable anyway since that is what contributes to your total armor rating. That's one thing people need to keep in mind for those particular pieces. I think just having item rating alone is enough for us to be able to determine what pieces we should wear.

 

I didn't mention rating because that number is actually affected by the quality of the mod (green, blue, purple). So it sorta makes sense. But yeah, is all this unnecessarily complex? Could they have devised a system where we only need to know one number? I think they could have.

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Well, for the armoring slot item rating is more applicable anyway since that is what contributes to your total armor rating. That's one thing people need to keep in mind for those particular pieces. I think just having item rating alone is enough for us to be able to determine what pieces we should wear.

 

Like I said, I did a bit of testing, and it's not that simple. I'm not really set up for testing (since it requires lots of creds + access to expensive gear), but a quick check of my inventory showed me that:

 

Empty Armor: Rating = 8

Armor with a 69P Enhancement: Rating 8

 

So (when I get some time) I can check to see if they Bolster the same or not. Based on tests made in your post, I'm assuming that mod and enh values will have some effect on final Bolstered stats, even though the "item ratings" displayed are the same (this would directly contradict what the devs said).

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I didn't mention rating because that number is actually affected by the quality of the mod (green, blue, purple). So it sorta makes sense. But yeah, is all this unnecessarily complex? Could they have devised a system where we only need to know one number? I think they could have.

 

No.

 

According to the devs, each piece has a separate Item Rating, but what I discovered is that mod modifications and enhancements have *no* rating (at least in the sense discussed by the devs.

 

Empty Armor: Item Rating 8

Armor w/ 69P Enhancement: Rating 8

Armor w/armoring and 69P Enhancement: Item Rating = Armor Rating

Armor with armoring and nothing else: Item Rating = Armor Rating.

 

Thus, going just by Item Rating, nothing else should matter. But, as noted in LRANDLE's thread, it does.

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No.

 

According to the devs, each piece has a separate Item Rating, but what I discovered is that mod modifications and enhancements have *no* rating (at least in the sense discussed by the devs.

 

Empty Armor: Item Rating 8

Armor w/ 69P Enhancement: Rating 8

Armor w/armoring and 69P Enhancement: Item Rating = Armor Rating

Armor with armoring and nothing else: Item Rating = Armor Rating.

 

Thus, going just by Item Rating, nothing else should matter. But, as noted in LRANDLE's thread, it does.

 

I think they could have devised an easier system. If they got rid of green/blue/purple, the name of the armoring mod could just include the item rating (ie. reflex armoring 154). That's the name of the mod. When you pop it into your piece of gear, rather than showing (66) (or whatever the number is), it'd show 154. And then the rating for your item would be 154. I understand that only the armoring affects the item's rating. That's fine, doesn't change the way you name mods. If a current blue reflex armoring 28 piece was renamed to reflex armoring 154, then a blue adept 28 enhancement should be renamed to adept 154 enhancement.

 

There, done, I've created a gearing system where you only need to remember one number.

 

This does remove the ability to wear higher rated gear at a lower level, but who cares. This really only has an affect when you're leveling, and do people actually obsess about green/blue/purple while leveling? The content is quite beatable without requiring the latest gear for your level.

Edited by gocard
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Bump to re-remind the devs that Obroan gear is not in fact the best-in-slot piece for many gear slots in pvp, and that this NEEDS to be fixed.

 

The list is short enough to enumerate, right?

  1. main hand
  2. off hand
  3. healing scouperative heals 2-piece set bonus?

 

Please amend the list as needed.

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The list is short enough to enumerate, right?

  1. main hand
  2. off hand
  3. healing scouperative heals 2-piece set bonus?

 

Please amend the list as needed.

 

Maybe be a bit more specific? I assume the list is of things that PVE is BiS over PVP? In that case, add Classic (61P) PVE Operative DPS 2-piece set bonus (+15% to Backstab)

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Maybe be a bit more specific? I assume the list is of things that PVE is BiS over PVP? In that case, add Classic (61P) PVE Operative DPS 2-piece set bonus (+15% to Backstab)

 

Go back and read the original post; essentially just MH/OH (or your "main hand" and "off hand").

 

PvE combinations for MH/OH are BiS for PvP. As much as it pisses me off something fierce, MANY PvE combinations are close/BIS for PvP on MHs/OHs. My surge and crit are pretty much the same across the board(19%/76%). As long as you don't sacrifice Bolstered EXP, these are more favorable than Obroan MH/OH. Here are some screens:

Crafted 58 Purples: Force Scream: 3008

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR58PurpleWeapon_zps3077d8fa.png

Classic/Crafted 61 Purples: Force Scream: 3010

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR61PURPLEWEAPON_zps4da5419c.png

 

I also assume Lvl 63 purples and/or a mix and match combo(69/63/61) will also be more favorable than Obroan MH/OH, but I think these screens are enough to know that Obroan weapons are not even as good as crafted 58 purples, which in turn, makes them useless outside of OWPVP. You can get crafted/classic purples at level 50 for these items and be so close to BiS, you won't have to change anything upon entry to endgame PvP.

 

 

Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, modifiable pieces. Outside of the MH/OH, Obroan does give a slight advantage in PvP, but with the cost of acquisition of Obroan, its not going to "kill you" not to be BiS, even for ranked. Please note, I switched back to my Obroan weapon to get back to my basis for a proper comparison.

Crafted 58 Purples: Force Scream: 2989

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR58PURPLEGLOVES_zpse9956ade.png

Classic/Crafted 61 Purples: Force Scream: 2987

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTOR61PURPLEGLOVES_zps6fa83840.png

 

Level 63 and possibly some other combinations might yield a similar number to Obroan, but again the number are so close, that carrying any of these are just as favorable. or you can just min/max Obroan and be done with it with no experimentation.

 

Obroan is BiS for PvP on non-weapon, non-modifiable pieces. I didn't compare Obroan on Ear piece, it is BiS, just barely again though (no screens, but I will if you want). I did however test Conq implants versus my Crafted Purples (which were on the basis build; Force Scream=2998). Please note, I switched back to my Obroan Weapon and Obroan Gloves to get back to my basis for a proper comparison.

 

Conq Implants(2EA): Force Scream: 2977

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh590/ldogg1579/SWTORCONQIMPLANTS_zps80e4309d.png

 

So these are a clear nerf to crafted purples like these: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/gear/50060-1012/expert-experimental-might-package

Which are what I have been wearing since 2.0.

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Go back and read the original post; essentially just MH/OH (or your "main hand" and "off hand").

 

? I was telling somebody who was making a list that being more specific might be helpful, I wasn't *asking* for specifics, I've been here for the whole thread (and well before that).

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Isn't the consensus that the PvE 2 piece set bonus for operative healer is BiS?

 

I'm not sure off the top of my head, but I know that the PVE 2 piece for Conc Op is BiS. But Bolster doesn't affect set bonuses, so unless there is actually a Stat advantage, we probably shouldn't include these pieces in a listing of PVE gear that is BiS *because of Bolster*.

 

In fact, my assumption was that using the PVE gear was a slight Stat *downgrade* justified by *how much better* the PVE set bonus is. I personally don't have the Obroan gear necessary to compare against the Bolstered PVE Stats.

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