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What's the staus on Same-Sex Romances?


GregSJ

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It was announced at the beginning of the year, that we would actually see the implementation of same sex romance options in TOR. At the time it was a hot topic and evoked a lot of discussion all over the place. Since then I've heard absolutely nothing more about it, besides the occasional speculation and the long outdated comment that it's coming down the pipe. It's almost the end of the year and we have not heard or seen anything substantial in regards to this promised addition. To be honest this is the one big addition I've been waiting for, and it would help if I could find any recent piece of information regarding it. Any information on where they are with this; are they even working on it? Or has Bioware just randomly shelved the idea after all the hype?
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i dont doubt its coming. but making new dialogue and new characters to form relations with takes time. i expect it on spring once they actually announce more companions. but i kno they havent forgot about the subject. i aint a bioware game without a lil gay in it lol
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Go look at the 2500+ post thread* of this in story and lore section. No need to make another pointless thread here when bioware won't tell you when to expect it anyways.

 

I don't see why we shouldn't. For one, new players don't find it there. We have people come in there totally surprised to find that there has been a thread running since January.

 

For another, seeing new threads posted by players who have not been a part of that discussion demonstrates to the design team ongoing and continuous interest in same-gender content.

 

Also, how many threads are started on paid transfers, or chat bubbles, or the secret space project, or hood toggles that are not locked down and redirected? Why should the discussion of same-gender content be treated differently? That is a sincere question.

 

I have had a thread up these past couple of weeks attempting to confirm a statement by PvP Czar Gabe Amatangelo that he thought same-gender romance would be coming with other new story content in the future content patch which will feature the new planet, Makeb. Lead Writer Hall Hood tentatively confirmed that but then pulled his confirming statement without comment.

 

That is the only hint we have had regarding this content at all since last March. Given that it was initially announced in September, 2011, I don't think it is unreasonable to request an update.

 

Given that other anticipated pending content enjoys discussion in multiple threads on General, not in secluded sub-forums, I don't see why this thread would be out of place and out of line.

 

Edit – *that thread has run continuously since January 17th. It has been re-made six times by the Community Support team when it grows overly long in any one version. In total, it has had over 7,500 posts and over 500,000 views. Oh, and one non-informative BW reply. I think we can be excused branching out a bit, if that is the response we get for staying in our ghetto.

Edited by Uluain
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Always wondered why they would waste time on this. At most the recent figures are 8% of the folks are bent this way.

 

So they ignore the "5%"(their words) who have login problems. Or the 5% who can't stay logged on due to CTD's, or the 5% that get the 9000 error, but they will take care of the 8%?

 

I do understand that the majority(99.99%+) of those that want this are teenage boys.. but come-on... cater to them?

 

Weird.... :eek:

 

You underestimate how many male players play as female characters and want to romance female companions.

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I don't understand what the hold up is. Just enable both male and female romances for all characters regardless of gender. They don't have to add any new content.... It's disappointing this hasn't been taken care of yet.
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On hold with everything else till they put a dollar sign on everything in the game for FTP. :D

 

Really they could have done this quite easily if they wanted to. Very few if any of the "flirt" options specify what gender they are speaking to. They simply need to lift some restrictions on the conversations. I don't think they would even need to add any new voice overs. They say that it isn't in their (the companions) personality, but none of them scream "hey I am straight" anyway, and to say any one of them don't act homosexual is a but stereotypical to begin with. In fact sexual preference is almost never mentioned (think I heard it once and that was with a regular NPC) with any companion. So what about them makes them so straight already? Just lift the conversation restrictions and most people would be happy.

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For the sake of thoroughness, and because I have been keeping track, here is everything that we know of BioWare saying on this subject since its announcement a year ago last September. This doesn't tell us anything about the current status of the content. We have had no firm word of any kind since March.

 

Oddly, none of this was posted here on the Community Forums. (although the initial announcement by Stephen Reid has been reposted occasionally by various community representatives, and it has also had a long career as the stock answer given by Customer Support droids to any enquiry touching on same-sex romance). The Community Team have not offered any information of any sort regarding the status of same-gender romantic content since launch.

 

The September Announcement and following remarks were made on or around September 12, 2011 on the pre-launch forums, which are no longer available. Daniel Erickson's remarks were made during the developer panel on the final day of the Guild Summit hosted from March 4-6, 2012 in Austin, Texas. Gabe Amatangelo's remarks were made at Gamescom 2012, held from August 15-19 in Cologne, Germany in an interview conducted by the folks at European fansite swtor-life.com. Hall Hood's retracted quasi-confirmation of those remarks were posted to his Twitter account on September 25, 2012.

 

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.

 

Stephen made a few additional posts at the time, addressing and clarifying this announcement:

 

First of all, this is definitely not an audience that consists of a 'couple of people' and we're aware of that. We take this decision very seriously.

 

Second, it's very important to realize that this is just one of many, many content additions that will be going into the game post launch. The vast majority of our content will be of interest to the vast majority of our potential audience.

 

However, one of the amazing things about MMOs is that over time we can get to add things that are exciting and interesting to smaller audiences. Normally, that's not something that's addressed too far ahead of time. In this case, we felt the addition was warranted and should be addressed early.

 

There will be plenty of content for all to play and enjoy.

 

and

 

We can't guarantee that a character you play at launch would have romance options 'unlocked' for an existing companion. It's something that will be taken into consideration when making design decisions. Not a promise it'll happen, but we'll take that feedback and relay it through to design.

 

We fully intend to do justice to the story in our storylines.

 

As you may have heard, we take story very seriously - this included.

 

Lastly for those of you who seem concerned that you will be 'tricked' into any romance arc in the game - all romance choices are clearly marked. You will be aware you're making those choices as you make them.

 

Although requests for an update on the status of same-gender content consistently made up about 10% of questions asked in the initial weeks of the Weekly Q&A on this forum, no new information was forthcoming until six months after Reid's announcement. Lead Writer Daniel Erickson finally offered the following:

 

[Given in reply to the player-submitted question, "Is there any update on same gender romance?"]

 

Is that a question people have? [laughter] This is an interesting one, because it sort of lit up and we honestly felt like if we give an update on it every single time – We've always said the same thing with it, which is that it's coming, and it's coming with story updates. And we totally understand when people hear "soon" – maybe I should have put TM next to it that says "writer soon" – but writers have a much, much larger lead time than you would expect, and we want to do any of this stuff right.

 

We heard suggestions, and we do read the stuff, and let's talk a little about the stuff that we were not willing to do. We were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling. When we do this, we want to do it right. We want to do it with the characters that it makes sense, that we always knew we actually wanted to do it for those.

 

So you guys know, when we talked about it before, it ended up being a budget and scheduling issue. There are romance arcs that we wanted to do that didn't make it into the game. We knew which characters – I'm not going to tell you... [laughter, suggestions of "Forex" and "Blizz" from audience] ...It's nice to know that somebody else was thinking of Forex, too. But, ah – so, the short answer is it's never changed, it's still coming. It's coming when full story comes. And when is full story coming? This year. So we are still on track.

 

Principal Lead PvP Designer Gabe Amatangelo gave this short statement at the close of an interview which was mostly about the coming Warzone, Ancient Hypergates:

 

[swtor-life.com interview at Gamescom 2012, August 15–19]

 

Um, the same-sex relationship stuff, there is – I think it is in Makeb? In the new update, I think there is some stuff in there. But I don't know exactly. I'm not, not a writer. That's sort of the aspect that I am farthest from. But it really comes down to just getting it on the schedule and getting that content into the game

 

Lead Writer Hall Hood was asked if he could verify that SGRs would in fact be coming with Makeb, and replied laconically:

 

[via Twitter, Sept. 25 2012]

 

Hall Hood @hallhood

(1 of 2) To all the folks who have been expressing interest in SGRs, here is the official word from Gabe Amatangelo:

 

(2 of 2) When I can share more information, I will let you know. Writing romances is one of my favorite things about working on SWTOR. :-)

 

Shortly after being posted, the tweet labled (1 of 2) was removed from Hood's Twitter feed without comment, but it had been seen and documented by multiple players who follow him. When I last checked, the tweet labeled (2 of 2) was still posted there and labeled as such.

 

To date, that's the official word as it has come out over the past year. No date for Makeb has been announced, but if Gabe Amatangelo's cautiously disclaimed information is in fact accurate, we should expect to hear at least something more on same-gender content closer to when that is ready for release.

Edited by Uluain
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I remember the devs saying something about actually crafting new dialogue to make it "fit" with the characters. To just change a few pronouns here and there "wouldn't be good writing."

 

Not sure how much I believe it though. At this point in time, a few changed pronouns closer to launch would've probably been better than waiting a year for what they consider "good writing."

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Darn it, Uluain, you ninja'd me :p

 

Sorry. I keep all of that in a text file for ease of reference. :)

 

I do also try to make myself useful keeping an eye on the Dev Tracker to point people to answers already given to the questions they ask, since I am going to be a pest about this anyway.

 

And yes, I do have a life, and there are larger concerns (I live in Ohio, I do vote) but I care about this.

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Truthfully, after over ten months, its more than fair to have another thread open on this subject. For one thing, it gets the topic back into the public eye (as it were.) Also, as it was stated previously, there is a ton of unlocked and duplicate threads on things such as hood toggles, ect.

 

It's not just the members of the LGBT community that want SSRs. There have been many different kinds of roleplayers that want this content, and have wondered why there has been no concrete word. Oh and trust me, it isn't all nerdy teenage guys looking for some female pixel-on-pixel action either. There is some ladies and some gents I know of that aren't teenage and are not looking at female companions. We'd like at least a direct confirmation by BW on the statements made by the PvP Developer Gabe Amatangelo.

 

Opposite Gender Romance is already in the game; Jade Empire and ME3 had SGR and players were promised it in ToR. If this content is coming with Makeb, this would be a good time to let the players know about it. Plus, datamining of Makeb has already begun and they'll probably need to squash some rumors. It would be a great time for BW to talk to the player base about confirming SGRs. We have been promised this year, and I'm holdin' them to it. ;)

 

Edit: Also the name of the thread is "Same gender relationships clarifications?" SGR is more commonly used than SSR. Last time I googled for SGR, the 3rd hit on the first page linked back to the Story and Lore thread on this matter.

Edited by natashina
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Truthfully, after over ten months, its more than fair to have another thread open on this subject. For one thing, it gets the topic back into the public eye (as it were.) Also, as it was stated previously, there is a ton of unlocked and duplicate threads on things such as hood toggles, ect.

 

It's not just the members of the LGBT community that want SSRs. There have been many different kinds of roleplayers that want this content, and have wondered why there has been no concrete word. Oh and trust me, it isn't all nerdy teenage guys looking for some female pixel-on-pixel action either. There is some ladies and some gents I know of that aren't teenage and are not looking at female companions. We'd like at least a direct confirmation by BW on the statements made by the PvP Developer Gabe Amatangelo.

 

Opposite Gender Romance is already in the game; Jade Empire and ME3 had SGR and players were promised it in ToR. If this content is coming with Makeb, this would be a good time to let the players know about it. Plus, datamining of Makeb has already begun and they'll probably need to squash some rumors. It would be a great time for BW to talk to the player base about confirming SGRs. We have been promised this year, and I'm holdin' them to it. ;)

 

Edit: Also the name of the thread is "Same gender relationships clarifications?" SGR is more commonly used than SSR. Last time I googled for SGR, the 3rd hit on the first page linked back to the Story and Lore thread on this matter.

 

Well said. I for one would like to hear an official word from Bioware over data mining rumours that will start popping up.

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They said "we were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling." Where in the current writing and good story telling is any reference to any companion or NPC being heterosexual? What in any of their stories references them as any sexuality? It's not like you get the option to "flirt" them and the reply with "sorry, that's not my thing" (ok I think this happens once in the whole game), you never even get the option to try. I just don't understand what writing they are talking about.
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They said "we were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling." Where in the current writing and good story telling is any reference to any companion or NPC being heterosexual? What in any of their stories references them as any sexuality? It's not like you get the option to "flirt" them and the reply with "sorry, that's not my thing" (ok I think this happens once in the whole game), you never even get the option to try. I just don't understand what writing they are talking about.

Exactly, I felt the same way when they said that. I see no way that "retrofitting" stuff = "bad writing."

Maybe they're thinking of things like Mako's previous hetero relationship, which is made clear before the Bounty Hunter even gets her as a companion. However, that doesn't mean she can't be bi.

Edited by Stenrik
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They said "we were not willing to go in and just change all the dialogue to work for the other gender. That is not writing. That is not good storytelling." Where in the current writing and good story telling is any reference to any companion or NPC being heterosexual? What in any of their stories references them as any sexuality? It's not like you get the option to "flirt" them and the reply with "sorry, that's not my thing" (ok I think this happens once in the whole game), you never even get the option to try. I just don't understand what writing they are talking about.

 

They never really set it in stone, probably because the romantic interest of the companion will to some regard be in response to the player choosing to [Flirt]. Maybe some will then decline (although I know of no opposite-gender companions who respond that way to [Flirt] prompts with no option to possibly continue).

 

But what I think that what they were trying to say is that they wanted to create unique, specific dialog for those instances. Erickson spoke of writer lead-time. You don't need that much time to tie pronoun changes to a gender-check, although it can be a tedious process. Creating new content adds replay value to existing classes and companions, something they really want to build on and encourage with Legacy etc.

 

So maybe you already have gotten to know Kira Carsen romantically with your male Jedi Knight. If you choose to level another, say a Sentinel rather than a Guardian, you'd have a new look at that companion if you chose to make a character of the other gender and follow a romantic course with Kira again.

 

(I refer to Kira just as an example – we don't yet know which companions will be available as same-sex romantic possibilities, or even that they'll be available to all classes, although I do notice that in the recent Companions 101 profile, discussion of romance with Kira was gender-neutral).

 

Anyhow, that's what I think they mean, and why I think they see that as the more appropriate course in creating new story possibilities.

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Exactly, I felt the same way when they said that. I see no way that "retrofitting" stuff = "bad writing."

Maybe they're thinking of things like Mako's previous hetero relationship, which is made clear before the Bounty Hunter even gets her as a companion. However, that doesn't mean she can't be bi.

 

Very true, but like I said I haven't heard every single companions dialogue. Even if 1 or 2 of the companions do happen to have some dialogue that makes them very hetero, there are allot of them that don't. Besides not EVERYBODY needs to be be bi or homosexual, just a few options would be nice.

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Truth be told, I haven't heard any companion's romantic dialogue. Just as I am sure many players won't have any interest in exploring the same-gender content, the existing scenarios aren't of any particular interest to me. On the other hand, I can see that in time, having explored same-sex options, I may be curious to see just what is different. In that regrad, writing separate stories does tend to encourage and support replay.

 

As far as "a few options", how would you determine which? Should the Jedi classes be omitted because it is less in keeping with their overall philosophy? Why, if Nadia and Kira are already romantically available? What about Smugglers? They are a free-wheeling bunch, but the male smuggler is presented in existing story as something of a ladies' man (based on the high volume of opposite-gender [Flirt] options one sees). Should players rolling a character of that class not have the option of taking their character in another direction? What is a sensible limit there?

 

We know that these are questions that the design team must have faced already and considered. If in fact the content really is still coming this year, then those decisions must have been made. It's not unreasonable to want to know what decisions were made, and how they were arrived at. Devs discuss this sort of thing in regards to other content all the time – both present and pending. It's looking more than a little shabby that this topic is the exception.

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The short answer to the title is that barely anyone cares. Therefore, Many many many many other things are more important before this. See A Thousand Papercuts thread in suggestions tab. Those are far more important, needed, and wanted.
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