Jump to content

Involuntarily flagged for PvP as a 32 by a 50 on a PvE server.


Deyjarl

Recommended Posts

You said yourself you like to see open World PvP on a PVE server.

 

If you are playing on a PvP server, why should you care? If you are playing on a PvE server and want Open World PvP, plenty of PvP servers to choose from. No need to stay on a PvE one.

 

Read my post above.

 

The server(s) I play on have no bearing on my support for or against this issue.

Edited by daemian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 647
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

It's simple, really. You see, when you quote my comments out of context and completely ignore the post I was responding to, then it distorts the meaning so that it no longer makes any sense.

 

Onthe other hand, if you'd been following the conversation, you'd realize that I fully support the OP's position. Consensual PVP on a PVE server is not the problem, it's the mechanic that allows griefing and forcing players into PVP situations when they don't want to.

 

Just to clarify, when you say Open World PvP, do you mean designated areas where people could PvP? Because that's NOT what Open World PvP means in a MMO.

 

Open World PvP means all planets and territories are open to PvP, you cannot unflag yourself, and thus you are on perpetual danger of fighting both mobs and enemies. Some people like it for the thrill. Good for them, I play MMOs to relax and am NOT looking for any PvP whatsoever.

 

So if I misinterpreted you I apologize, but your sentence "I like Open PvP in a PvE server" sounded odd, especially because it contradicted your following sentence about being griefed, which I fully support of course

Edited by Ultrasroma
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to clarify, when you say Open World PvP, do you mean designated areas where people could PvP? Because that's NOT what Open World PvP means in a MMO.

 

Open World PvP means all planets and territories are open to PvP, you cannot unflag yourself, and thus you are on perpetual danger of fighting both mobs and enemies. Some people like it for the thrill. Good for them, I play MMOs to relax and am NOT looking for any PvP whatsoever.

 

Please read my posts, it will make it easier to understand them. ;)

 

I have no problem with mutually consensual PVP, in all its forms, on any server. And I fully respect your (and my own) right to relax and not have to PVP if you don't want to on a PVE server.

 

So if I misinterpreted you I apologize, but your sentence "I like Open PvP in a PvE server" sounded odd, especially because it contradicted your following sentence about being griefed, which I fully support of course

 

Yeah, it will make more sense if you go back and read it in context of the post I was replying to. It doesn't contradict at all.

Edited by daemian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the way it works on pve servers. You used a Area of Effect attack and hit a pvp flagged enemy in the process. It wasn't the mob he attacked, no it was your attack hitting him. He tricked you, sure but in the end it is your fault. Simply should not have used a AOE.

 

So don't use aoes because someone might step in them? You realize you could just roll a stealth class and stealth into aoes, correct? And that's the aoers fault still?

 

The way it works on pve servers, in every MMO btw, is that You cannot become a pvp flagged person if you do not set yourself to it. However there are exceptions to that rule.

 

1) Entering a PvP area, were you become automatically flagged

2) Right clicking your avatar and setting the PvP flag on yourself.

3) Attacking an Enemy player that is PvP flagged.

 

You fall in catagory 3. Though luck.

 

On pve servers in most MMOs, if you aoe and a flagged member of the opposite faction walks into the aoe, it does not hit them. Seriously go play wow or rift(though rift would bug out with some spells for a while) try to aoe a flagged person while you are unflagged, nothing will happen. That is why I would laugh when I would see unflagged people trying to unstealth rogues. Even on my rogue I would sit in hunters flares and other aoes and laugh at them, because it did nothing because they weren't flagged.

 

It is an exploit and should be fixed. I choose to play on pvp servers, those who choose to play on pve servers should not have to deal with douchebags as described in the OP. So please get off your high horse because you obviously have no clue.

Edited by Cyndelx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would really like to know who the lvl 50 is so I can congratulate him on a job well done. Pro!

 

I love stories like this, just so damn pro.

 

For the OP...take it like a man (or woman). You drew first blood. If you don't want to get flagged, don't attack members of the opposite faction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would really like to know who the lvl 50 is so I can congratulate him on a job well done. Pro!

 

I love stories like this, just so damn pro.

 

For the OP...take it like a man (or woman). You drew first blood. If you don't want to get flagged, don't attack members of the opposite faction.

 

Brilliant. :rolleyes: (and by that, I mean not really).

Edited by daemian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please read my posts, it will make it easier to understand them. ;)

 

I have no problem with mutually consensual PVP, in all its forms, on any server. And I fully respect your (and my own) right to relax and not have to PVP if you don't want to on a PVE server.

 

Okay there was a misunderstanding then. I agree with consensual PvP, if people enjoy it and you are in a consensual area, why not? :) :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would really like to know who the lvl 50 is so I can congratulate him on a job well done. Pro!

 

I love stories like this, just so damn pro.

 

For the OP...take it like a man (or woman). You drew first blood. If you don't want to get flagged, don't attack members of the opposite faction.

 

Two things: Either you are a Troll, well-played then.

 

Or you are serious. And then you have some issues at comprehending even the simplest concepts.

Edited by Ultrasroma
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless you're saying AOE shouldn't flag you if it hits another player on a PVE server? I don't specifically remember testing it in WoW, but I believe AOE will flag you for PVP in the same situation as the OP is describing.

 

No it didn't. You remember incorrect. It may have when the game came out but it got fixed.

Edited by Cyndelx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would really like to know who the lvl 50 is so I can congratulate him on a job well done. Pro!

 

I love stories like this, just so damn pro.

 

For the OP...take it like a man (or woman). You drew first blood. If you don't want to get flagged, don't attack members of the opposite faction.

Weak acting, poor writing, no suspense, plot easily figured out within minutes of opening credits.

 

1/10. Save your money and watch the trolls on the loot roll thread instead. Some of them are pretty good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would really like to know who the lvl 50 is so I can congratulate him on a job well done. Pro!

 

I love stories like this, just so damn pro.

 

For the OP...take it like a man (or woman). You drew first blood. If you don't want to get flagged, don't attack members of the opposite faction.

 

Post after post points out the problem yet people still don't get it (nor read for that matter).

 

I stealth as an Agent, I flag myself, then I waltz into a unflagged players AoE: bam they are flagged and now attackable. In no way, shape or form did that player actually attack me. I simply get hit by their AoEs and they are now open season.

 

This works for AoE heals as well: player that is flagged runs by me right as I cast an AoE heal, it will hit that player and flag me. There is NO choice in the matter.

 

I am fine with having to target a dude to get flagged but not when I don't do nuthin to them or vice versa.

 

People need to read first, then comment. This is an oversight in the flagging system and needs to be addressed asap. PvE servers are about consensual PvP which is currently not the case.

 

Yet again, you take WoW where I can AoE all I want on top of a flagged player and it will never touch them unless a) I manually flag or b) actually target and hit them. Rift went one step further with an option to never hit or heal flagged players ever.

Edited by fixit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read the whole thing and play on a PvE server. I like these options. I love the option to PVP and would be pissed if whining got it taken away. Also he was in the imperial side... People may try to kill you there. It's suprising he wasn't flagged for PVP when we went by the imperial side.

 

Yup, I'm still here. So...because you like it, everyone else should have to alter their playstyle to avoid griefers stealthing into their aoes?

 

Let me rephrase the deleted post. Please read the entire thread. We're not asking for them to remove pvp from pve servers altogether. At least not everyone is. We want the ability to avoid being auto flagged by someone against our wishes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I got one as well. So somebody has to be aware.

 

Erm, no. Mods here seem to just respond to /report and clean stuff up. I severly doubt any of this feedback is read by actual devs. They certainly never reply to issues like this, that's for sure.

Edited by fixit
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And that is a real problem... the lack of response on this issue.

 

I mean, where is the sense of proportion? They responded to an issue of people accidentally needing when they mean to greed an object and then being bound to it and unable to trade it to another party member. And while I have no problem with them trying to fix it so people can't make a mistake like that, such a mistake has VERY little impact on the actual game-play.

 

Meanwhile, allowing PVE players on PVE servers to be tricked into open world PVP rates no response at all?

 

This is a VERY serious issue that could result in my entire guild leaving the game eventually, since none of us really like to PVP and we all hate open world PVP. Making it so that I *have* to participate in it is a game-breaker. And I'm not alone... dozens of people on this thread said the same. Yet there is not one dev response to this, not one, in all the hundreds of posts here?

 

Really BW needs to end the radio silence on this issue, and say something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would really like to know who the lvl 50 is so I can congratulate him on a job well done. Pro!

 

I love stories like this, just so damn pro.

 

For the OP...take it like a man (or woman). You drew first blood. If you don't want to get flagged, don't attack members of the opposite faction.

 

Thanks for the bump. Troll all you like. It doesn't change the issue and won't stop anyone from trying to get this changed. Or maybe your goal is to try and get the thread closed so the issue won't be getting so much attention.

 

Getting pleasure from someone else's discomfort, and in some cases actual hurt, is just plain sad and doesn't make you look like a "kewl dood." It just makes you look sad.

 

Our right to play the way we like on the server that is designated as supporting that playstyle, supercedes your right to interfere with our playtime. If Bioware decides that you should be able to do that, you'll soon find yourself without anyone left to do it to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your a PvE player with no interest whatsoever in PvP and your PvE quest line takes you into a PvE area then quite simply the mechanics of the game should give you an option to lock yourself as PvE and NOT ever be flagged for PvP.

 

They can do it in Rift and it works fine, there is no reason why PvE players who are forced to quest in mixed PvE/PvP area's should be tricked into getting flagged for PvP. The mechanic that allows this is just bad coding and it's lazy. If the story arc forces PvE players into shared zones then the game mechanic should give you an option to preserve your PvE status. No If's buts or maybe's about it. PvE players should not have to concern themselves about PvP stuff on a PvE server while pursuing a PvE quest.

 

:mad:

 

Get your act together Bioware, if Trion can manage it why can't you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's ridiculous as well.

 

Removing the PvP flag entirely from PvE servers solves this.

 

Probably the best way to fix the problem is to make it so that your aoe abilities have no effect on flagged players if you're not flagged (making it impossible for people to trick you into getting flagged), and make it impossible for you to cast any kind of heal or buff on friendly players that are flagged unless you first choose to flag yourself. I've already seen many posts stating that other games do it this way. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Erm, no. Mods here seem to just respond to /report and clean stuff up. I severly doubt any of this feedback is read by actual devs. They certainly never reply to issues like this, that's for sure.

 

What's really ironic is that the very people who would /report any of our responses in this thread are the ones who are supporting their imagined right to grief people in the game. lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hear hear from someone who's cowardly enough to play on a PVE server.

 

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to say here, so please understand that my response is based on how I interpreted your comment:

 

It is not cowardly to play on a PVE server for the purpose of avoiding PVP. It IS cowardly to flag your level 50 character in a PVE server and trick a lower level player into getting flagged by using an unfair exploit, and then kill that character. People who do that are cowards who couldn't stand a fair fight on a PVP server, so they take unfair advantage of an exploit to grief lower level players on a PVE server.

 

If you choose to make a character on a PVP server, then you have absolutely no right, reason or excuse to complain when a higher level person ganks you. On a PVE server, using an exploit to trick a lower level player into getting flagged and ganking him is griefing, and should be a bannable offense (if it isn't already bannable).

 

If I get ganked that way on my PVE server, I will most definitely put in a GM ticket to report that player for harassment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And that is a real problem... the lack of response on this issue.

 

I mean, where is the sense of proportion? They responded to an issue of people accidentally needing when they mean to greed an object and then being bound to it and unable to trade it to another party member. And while I have no problem with them trying to fix it so people can't make a mistake like that, such a mistake has VERY little impact on the actual game-play.

 

Meanwhile, allowing PVE players on PVE servers to be tricked into open world PVP rates no response at all?

 

This is a VERY serious issue that could result in my entire guild leaving the game eventually, since none of us really like to PVP and we all hate open world PVP. Making it so that I *have* to participate in it is a game-breaker. And I'm not alone... dozens of people on this thread said the same. Yet there is not one dev response to this, not one, in all the hundreds of posts here?

 

Really BW needs to end the radio silence on this issue, and say something.

 

 

Is this guy for real?. You probably have a 0.1% chance of this happening to you. If it does the n you'll have to wait the 3 seconds to respawn and you'll be wiser about your aoe usage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It obviously depends on their definition of consensual. For example, attacking another player indicates that you wish to engage in PvP. If you use an attack while targeting another player, you become flagged for PvP and the attack goes through.

 

Just because you claim you didn't "want" to attack them doesn't mean that you didn't do it. Someone can make a post saying "I accidentally clicked on someone and attacked them, but I didn't want to participate in PvP! You should only be able to attack other players when you manually set your PvP flag!!!!"

 

This is the same, just for AOE attacks. You choose to use an AOE attack with another player in the radius - you chose to participate in PvP. Complain about stealth players all you want, it's the same thing.

 

And thus, Bioware never lied. The description on the server matches reality.

 

Ah, the Bill Clinton "It depends on the meaning of 'is'" defense. No one bought it when he tried it, and no one here is going to.

 

Consent "to give assent or permission (to do something); agree; accede" (Word English Dictionary).

 

If you target another player, you are engaging in a PvP act. You are, by any definition, giving consent to PvP when you choose to engage in PvP. When you engage in a PvP act, your AoE should hit other players who have likewise consented to PvP. However, we are not talking about someone targeting another player and complaining that their AoE damage affected a third, are we?

 

We are talking about an unflagged player, one who has not declared any intent to PvP, attacking an NPC. The attack is a PvE act. The only consent you have a right to construe from that is that the player consented to PvE. The fact that an AoE from an unflagged player directed at a PvE target can affect a flagged player, whether they can see that player or not, and drag the unflagged player into unconsensual PvP clearly contradicts the stated intent of the server rules set. That makes it a bug, not some means of expressing consent.

 

Besides, your own words utterly destroy your own premise.

 

You choose to use an AOE attack with another player in the radius - you chose to participate in PvP

 

You do not get to pretend that a person being stealthed is irrelevant. How can you "choose to use an AOE attack with another player in the radius" if you cannot see that player? How can it be your choice when someone runs into your radius, someone that was not present when you started the fight, such as if they were off screen at the time, or were not flagged when the fight started?

 

The fact is, you cannot choose to do that if you cannot tell they are there or if they were not there before you started the fight. If the choice was not present, you cannot claim that there was an act of consent. Even if that were not the case, there is simply no logical reason that an AoE attack from an unflagged player directed at a PvE target should affect a flagged player. Or what? Are you going to tell us that the preferred method of getting into PvP now is to attack NPCs?

 

Basically, what you are saying is that no PvE player who wants to avoid PvP should ever be able to use any AoE attack in the open world because the simple act of using the attack is consenting to PvP even when you attack an NPC and even when there is no PvP flagged player visible. Even if that convoluted logic remotely made any sense, someone else's choice to engage in PvP by flagging themselves and their choice to stand in your PvE related AoE cannot remotely be construed as you making a choice to engage them in PvP. In other words, the problem is not that attacking a PvP flagged player can flag you. The problem is that there is simply no reason in the world why an unflagged player's attack on a PvE target should affect a PvP-flagged player in any way.

 

I will say it again. The only reason to argue in favor of this mechanic is if you want to be able to force people into PvP without their consent. There simply is no other reason. Preventing an unflagged player's AoE from affecting a PvP flagged player does absolutely nothing to stop an unflagged player from flagging themselves or directly attacking the player. Again, I doubt people are running around looking for flagged players standing next to NPCs just so they can attack the NPC with an AoE and flag themselves.

 

The fact that you would go to these absurd lengths to justify an obvious bug is beyond comprehension. Even if you will not accept the clear intent of their statements as proof that this is a bug and that people using it are exploiting, someone has already spoken of at least one person who was warned and then banned for doing so.

 

I am done wasting my time arguing with you about this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...