Im going to sum up this thread.

 

No, I will sum up this thread.

Pugs: Ban Premades from solo queue

Premades: Friends, MMO

Pugs: Seperate queues

Premades: Not enough population

Bioware: NO

Summary. Pugs are tired of getting farmed by gangs of players on VOIP and want a queue devoid of same. Premades claim to be completely innocent of a desire to gain an advantage and let red herrings loose to protect their easy mode pug farming. They claim they want competition but they avoid playing other premades in ranked. They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.

The solution is some sort of matchmaking, but it's not gonna happen.

There were many reasons why ranked 8s failed, one of them being that it was a highly cliquey scene. you had to be noticed by other PvP guilds and be involved with their members in some way if you wanted to be a part of a team or wanted to start up one yourself. It was no easy thing to try and be a part of.

 

Other reasons included lack of x server and lack of dev support, but one of the reasons was because of how cliquey the community that participated in it was. Also many PvPers were already a part of a ranked guild or were an officer/leader of one.

Two simple reasons why 8 man Rankeds died.

There was no match-making system based on Team ELO that pitted teams accordingly, which was said to be introduced in Season 1 (which never came), so eventually most teams were expunged due to your above quote (bolded). If the Dev team had followed up on what they said they would give Rankeds, you would have seen more teams still giving Rankeds a shot. But without that ELO match-making, the system was garbage at best and the scene gave way to attrition (due to bleeding subs) and so on and so on. The second reason of course, which most agree with, is the cross-server functionality (which again was said to come with Season 1), but never happened.

The Devs, at the time Rankeds were being developed, understood what needed to happen to have this aspect be successful CLICK ME FOR EXAMPLE, sadly the game lost way too many subs and management/corporate wanted to go in another direction to keep subs from leaving, so PvP updates were literally left behind (AKA Pre-Season for over a year) and the F2P idea became reality. If they had gone with what they had planned initially (Match-making, cross-server w/Season 1), PvP in this game as far as population/quality would have been in a much better state in regards to 8 mans Rankeds. Sadly, this game has terrible management, so Devs were "let go" and not enough hands were left on deck to achieve some PvP balance.

Whomever is running the ship now, felt reducing the "high end PvP" to 4 mans as opposed to 8 mans would be the answer to all. Yet again failed, because they have no f'ing clue what players actually want, and those in charge of directing content are clueless beyond belief. I'm fine with Arenas, think it's something that should have been in the game since Day 1, but there is no reason both Arenas and 8 Man Rankeds should not have been able to co-exist. With such a shallow team running this train wreck now, there will NEVER be solid PvP content again. Period. Welcome to SWTOR, a total failure when it comes to PvP development. But how 'bout them voice overs?

There were many reasons why ranked 8s failed, one of them being that it was a highly cliquey scene. you had to be noticed by other PvP guilds and be involved with their members in some way if you wanted to be a part of a team or wanted to start up one yourself. It was no easy thing to try and be a part of.

 

Ya, we heard. It was sooooo Impossssssible to get 8 people together for ranked. (but of course pugs are admonished to "make friends" and make a premade. It's an MMO for gosh sakes !).

The latest is... Ohhhh we don't like the format QQ. as the reason 4v4 ranked sits empty. Of course the same premades that avoid 4v4 ranked will sync queue for solo ranked hoping to farm pugs there in their pursuit of easy wins and ranking.

Ranked failed because players always take the easiest route. And it's a lot easier and more fun farming pugs for easy wins in regs than it is to risk losing in ranked.

No, I will sum up this thread.

 

Pugs: Ban Premades from solo queue

Premades: Friends, MMO

Pugs: Seperate queues

Premades: Not enough population

Bioware: NO

 

Summary. Pugs are tired of getting farmed by gangs of players on VOIP and want a queue devoid of same. Premades claim to be completely innocent of a desire to gain an advantage and let red herrings loose to protect their easy mode pug farming. They claim they want competition but they avoid playing other premades in ranked. They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.

 

The solution is some sort of matchmaking, but it's not gonna happen.

Your tears are delicious, child.

Funny story, this entire time, you probably assume that because I am arguing with you, that means I premade all the time. Which I don't, I actually have a reputation for being a staunch solo queuer that only plays Imp side on my server.

So when you're done assuming VOIP or grouping with people you know gives you an unmatched advantage (I'm willing to bet you're too much of a thick headed twit to understand you really don't need an "inc" to know when a node is getting attacked lol), maybe you can admit your pathetic failure as a player and stop claiming it's unfair that you're getting farmed.

Because it's not a problem. If you are willing to accept this pathetic standard of player and refuse to better yourself, you deserve every beat down you get. Competition is about trying to do as much as you can, not as little as you can.

Cry for matchmaking all you want as well, but no matter what happens, casuals will always lose to competitors. So as long as you think the competition should cater to you, you will always lose.

And it will be enjoyable, watching you cry everytime you get reminded of your place on the ladder. Don't like it, try climbing up instead of attempting to get off whenever the going gets rough.

I premade a bit, I run solo a bit.

Funny story most of the time when I am in a premade with voice, the last thing we are talking about is the game we are playing. It does not take a genius to figure out which node is being attacked, or where people are going.

Cheers,

Hobi

I premade a bit, I run solo a bit.

 

Funny story most of the time when I am in a premade with voice, the last thing we are talking about is the game we are playing. It does not take a genius to figure out which node is being attacked, or where people are going.

 

Cheers,

Hobi

In principle, I like to agree with the theory of the TO, that well organized pre-mades are killing the fun for pugs. From time to time, you are facing pre-mades that well organized that you really wonder, why these guys didn't queue for ranked. Especially if you are facing 8 chars from the same guild (1,2,3,queue).

But on the opposite site, this isn't happening as often anymore, and in addition many pugs are really competitive to pre-mades nowadays. If there are some experienced players in the pug, if they keep their eyes open, and if they have some practice in the BGs they can easily win (even agains TS premades).

I would say, in the past, it was a problem, but it isn't anymore. I still hope, that BW spend a little time and money to increase matchmaking, but not necessary because of the pug vs premades issue.

No, I will sum up this thread.

 

Pugs: Ban Premades from solo queue

Premades: Friends, MMO

Pugs: Seperate queues

Premades: Not enough population

Bioware: NO

 

Summary. Pugs are tired of getting farmed by gangs of players on VOIP and want a queue devoid of same. Premades claim to be completely innocent of a desire to gain an advantage and let red herrings loose to protect their easy mode pug farming. They claim they want competition but they avoid playing other premades in ranked. They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.

 

The solution is some sort of matchmaking, but it's not gonna happen.

Good Post, nail on the head/

I wish i had actually read this thread last 3 days ago as i would of saved myself the sub. I honestly thought they had got rid of queuing as a group (outside of ranked, with late night syncing unstoppable). After re-rolling to The Red Eclipse server i have seen nothing but pre-mades. GSF is full of republic pre-mades and ive yet to see a game even close, let alone win...just landslides with coordinated GS and fighter escorts etc. The WZ themselves, well granted it is a PvE server but some of the players are really bad, both sides with their VOIP. Keyboard turning, silly tactics but can easily see the coordination is done on VOIP (one group was trying to all hide under the stairs on huttball and then make a run for it, barely able to pass to each other and their stealth assassins opening with shock etc) just bad gameplay overall (which clearly would get rolled on say ToFN server ranked) but they still won 6-0 due to VOIP. I haven't seen such play since early access when everyone was just random.

For people saying VOIP isnt much of an advtantage dont talk complete rubbish. I've been using VOIP in FPS since roger wilco on counter-strike beta 6.5 and rainbow six, it is a MASSIVE advantage and common sense proves this, try doing anything that requires teamwork with someone else in the real world without talking or feeling the need to talk.

Anyway i saw a message on the fleet last night saying "apparently we are killing pug pve on this server with pre-mades lol". Couldn't be bothered to argue about it anymore, logged, unsubbed and then unfortunately saw this post after the original sub. 3 days in, not going to bother fighting it anymore when people think they're big or clever for winning with an unfair advantage. Won't be farmed by players that are unskilled but resort to unfair advantages. Not gonna ask the players to help their beloved game they defend so much.

So keep up the "sweet tears child" etc posts and enjoy your barren GSF/WZ, as i promise you it will happen and for many people this issue is one of the if not the contributing factor.

For people saying VOIP isnt much of an advtantage dont talk complete rubbish. I've been using VOIP in FPS since roger wilco on counter-strike beta 6.5 and rainbow six, it is a MASSIVE advantage and common sense proves this, try doing anything that requires teamwork with someone else in the real world without talking or feeling the need to talk.

Course it isn't, try operating in the real world in calling out every little detail and see how rapidly your business/competition fails. Things such as understanding that watching your teammates' life bars and understanding that any activity usually means the node is under attack are hard counters to VOIP planned out strats. Welcome to the better world, where somethings are better left unsaid and you should work on how you can support others over being told what to do every single second of the situation.

Cut out the rest of your post, considering how you saw tactics and gameplay beyond what a normal pug should do (which is nonsense, considering you don't need VOIP to understand how to gank a ball carrier) as "well coordinated" and how you are basically making up dribble without even having a clue what you're talking about (saying premades will get rolled in ranked when you've never even played in that queue)

I also find it funny how you also believe you know exactly what they are saying in VOIP or even if they use VOIP at all. Probably like the "haxor" defense mechanism bads use whenever they farm you, glad to see you deserved the beat downs you got.

Anyway i saw a message on the fleet last night saying "apparently we are killing pug pve on this server with pre-mades lol". Couldn't be bothered to argue about it anymore, logged, unsubbed and then unfortunately saw this post after the original sub. 3 days in, not going to bother fighting it anymore when people think they're big or clever for winning with an unfair advantage. Won't be farmed by players that are unskilled but resort to unfair advantages. Not gonna ask the players to help their beloved game they defend so much.

Stop crying that it's an unfair advantage please.

Sure, only average nobodies premade without ever entering the queue as a solo player. But premades are far from unbeatable, it's only the crybaby bads like yourself that believe they have an unbeatable advantage that make the matches unwinnable. When in reality, they have to deal with carrying people the same as you do sometimes.

The real problem, as I have stated before, is the fact that nearly every match, the good players are stuck carrying the bads. There is no middle ground, the match is one sided nearly all the time and is usually defined by "who carried their anchors better" or "who exploited the stupid better". And the problem doesn't get fixed when you take away the good players so the bads can feel better about themselves; it gets fixed when the bad players swallow their overwhelming ego, understand they aren't as BA as they think they are, and improve their game.

So keep up the "sweet tears child" etc posts and enjoy your barren GSF/WZ, as i promise you it will happen and for many people this issue is one of the if not the contributing factor.

Only for the nobody bads looking to blame their problems on others instead of taking responsibility for a change.

Good thing you're not playing this game anymore though. Trimming the bads one day at a time, whether it's by helping them improve into decent skill level players or making them quit altogether.

Bye bye, don't let the door hit your *** on the way out. The more of your type of personality leave the WZs, the more improvement this game will see.

Which, I guess, thank you for actually putting the needs of a competitive community before yours for a change. Glad to see you make a choice that isn't selfish for a change, even if you're probably too dense and empty headed to understand what it is you actually did.

EDIT, just noticed this post:

that...or maybe they actually match similarly skilled players with and against each other. you'd have to be masochistic or "seriously competitive" to queue up against the same butt kicking 10x a night while getting incrementally better, if at all, so that some time in the next 5 months, you team might -- might -- be able to give that other team a fight. I mean...yeah. you could say it's lack of competitiveness. I'd say it's lack of matchmaking which causes the population to dwindle quickly.

 

(this is all a rated discussion and has nothing to do with reg/premades stuff. carry on.)

There is no fair estimate/game mechanism they can place in matching skill to skill, match making will never be the answer because the developers have to look at mechanical indications to match players, such as specs, recorded wins and losses, etc. You can't make a system to balance the stupid and the elite to one side that makes sense and is unbiased.

Others will unintentionally or even intentionally circumvent that system with fresh and clean alts, and even then, a W/L record or a total kill count/rated WZ rating will never indicate where someone's true skill lies as you can easily get carried on superior teams or farm rating at off times. You can't give everyone the same hand, it'd be better if the devs stuck to their usual approach with regs and encouraged people to play with the hand they've been dealt over expecting to have the odds in their favor every time.

Either way though, I'll agree that the developers didn't do a very good job in creating a beginning system to build a healthy competitive player base. But any problem, imbalance, and change should always be fixable by a competitive mindset, so if the community was more competitive, it wouldn't be nearly as bleak as everyone says it is.

This thread is immortal. FYI, if you think you are posting something new and elightening that no one else has ever thought of, you're wrong and it was posted 40 pages back.

Whatever side you're on, please stop posting as clearly nothing is being changed. You can necro this thread in 5 years if this game still exists and Bioware put in cross server.

No, I will sum up this thread.

 

Pugs: Ban Premades from solo queue

Premades: Friends, MMO

Pugs: Seperate queues

Premades: Not enough population

Bioware: NO

 

Summary. Pugs are tired of getting farmed by gangs of players on VOIP and want a queue devoid of same. Premades claim to be completely innocent of a desire to gain an advantage and let red herrings loose to protect their easy mode pug farming. They claim they want competition but they avoid playing other premades in ranked. They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.

 

The solution is some sort of matchmaking, but it's not gonna happen.

Funny, I've been playing since early access and I've never once felt like I've been farmed in warzones and I solo more than group. You win some and you lose some and I certainly win more than I lose. Fact is people like you are trash at this game. For ****s sake yesterday I was in a huttball and some dude typed in general "damn over powered stun locking ops" and then at the end of the match I look at the scoreboard and the guy complaining about stun locks was playing a *********** assassin....Garbage.

Funny, I've been playing since early access and I've never once felt like I've been farmed in warzones and I solo more than group. You win some and you lose some and I certainly win more than I lose. Fact is people like you are trash at this game. For ****s sake yesterday I was in a huttball and some dude typed in general "damn over powered stun locking ops" and then at the end of the match I look at the scoreboard and the guy complaining about stun locks was playing a *********** assassin....Garbage.

it is a learn2shroud issue then:P

Funny, I've been playing since early access and I've never once felt like I've been farmed in warzones and I solo more than group. You win some and you lose some and I certainly win more than I lose. Fact is people like you are trash at this game. For ****s sake yesterday I was in a huttball and some dude typed in general "damn over powered stun locking ops" and then at the end of the match I look at the scoreboard and the guy complaining about stun locks was playing a *********** assassin....Garbage.

I mostly solo queue myself and whenever we lose to a premade almost always it is not because we faced a group but because my teammates just suck.

I mostly solo queue myself and whenever we lose to a premade almost always it is not because we faced a group but because my teammates just suck.

More or less =/

Not that it matters. All the good players are quitting this game so all the solo players will have their way soon in form of having no one to play with I'm going to miss swtor but I can't stomach the ignorance from both the developers and the players.

I mostly solo queue myself and whenever we lose to a premade almost always it is not because we faced a group but because my teammates just suck.

Nope, BW need to nerf friendships and guilds. And while they are at it ban good players from queing all together because its ruining warzones...

Nope, BW need to nerf friendships and guilds. And while they are at it ban good players from queing all together because its ruining warzones...

They don't need to ban them. They are all leaving willingly lol.

I mostly solo queue myself and whenever we lose to a premade almost always it is not because we faced a group but because my teammates just suck.

I find it odd how almost every match I have lost, this is usually the case.

I have around 2 losses and 10 matches in total from my little over 2 year experience with this game where I can say the sides were even and the weakest player on the team was "average". Out of those, probably half were actually intense, hard fought battles that I enjoyed whether or not we won or lost.

They don't need to ban them. They are all leaving willingly lol.

so BW actually addressed the issue, and intentionally made that FAQ and the recent balance changes to drive most of the better players out and thereby reduce the amount of PuGstomping premades. It would be an absolute brilliant move and BW would deserve credit for their subtlety.

the state of pvp is already bad in the average level of play....with all the remains of what are the more pvp focused players it will be outright horrible. A vicious circle even for those that might consider staying.

so BW actually addressed the issue, and intentionally made that FAQ and the recent balance changes to drive most of the better players out and thereby reduce the amount of PuGstomping premades. It would be an absolute brilliant move and BW would deserve credit for their subtlety.

 

 

the state of pvp is already bad in the average level of play....with all the remains of what are the more pvp focused players it will be outright horrible. A vicious circle even for those that might consider staying.

I was going to stay because overall I don't think swtor is that bad and I love SW, but last night I was sitting on the fleet, I didn't want to queue for pvp, I didn't want to do pve, I didn't want to do anything. I sat there and realized I had no reason to keep playing anymore. Any form of guilds and competitive play is completely gone and I just have no drive to keep playing and keep improving anymore, especially since most all of my friends quit and I literally just solo queue all the time now.

If F2P wasn't so ridiculously restrictive I may have left the game installed but really playing as preferred/f2p is really pointless.

Nope, BW need to nerf friendships and guilds. And while they are at it ban good players from queing all together because its ruining warzones...

I know you and I are not the only ones that find this thought ridiculous. That said I think the game could have more in place to encourage new players to group with and communicate with willing vets so they can begin to get better. Solo queuing from 10-55 can cultivate and encourage some really bad habits and perceptions of the game.

Fact is people like you are trash at this game. ...Garbage.

They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.

They constantly belittle the skill of others and use negative characterizations and name calling like "bads" to suggest that some players deserve to be mistreated which also underlines their lack of concern for others and the population at large.

is that any different from what you have been doing? Any time someone points out how not everyone even groups to "pugstomp" and that some people DO actually legitimately hang out with friends you go in and accuse us of pugstomping premades and accuse anyone practically who does defend grouping with other players and presents arguments for why a group only que would be ineffective instead of countering those arguments civilly you just say how apparently we are making excuses to keep "farming" pugs, please, do not pretend you are any better than who you think we are because you have been using negative characterizations and names yourself, in this post I quoted alone it shows you saying we "belittle others and call names" so please start offering logical arguments and we will listen and treat you with respect instead of bashing you.

and before you say something I do not even group often, and when I do its to screw around, in fact out of this month I have only grouped few times and most of them were for lowbie pvp leveling my alts with 2 friends of mine, and we lost 2/3 matches we played together before I had to log off.

Nope, BW need to nerf friendships and guilds. And while they are at it ban good players from queuing all together because its ruining warzones...

As has been pointed out many times in the this thread, no one is asking for grouping to be banned. What is being requested is that match making be instituted so that premades vs premades (or more precisely, competitive teams vs competitive teams) and pugs vs pugs.

Of course that is what is intended with the 2 existent queues, reg and ranked. However, when it comes to playing ranked and facing other teams that have the same advantages, friends apparently evaporate.

t's easy to conclude that "friends" are in abundance when it comes to easy mode wins vs pugs or sync queuing to gain an advantage in solo ranked, but are in very short supply when it comes to facing other teams on equal footing.

Pretending that match making would victimize grouping is just another specious argument.

As has been pointed out many times in the this thread, no one is asking for grouping to be banned. What is being requested is that match making be instituted so that premades vs premades (or more precisely, competitive teams vs competitive teams) and pugs vs pugs.

And how do you distinguish competitive team from a couple of non-competitive people who just happen to play together?

As has been pointed out many times in the this thread, no one is asking for grouping to be banned. What is being requested is that match making be instituted so that premades vs premades (or more precisely, competitive teams vs competitive teams) and pugs vs pugs.

 

Of course that is what is intended with the 2 existent queues, reg and ranked. However, when it comes to playing ranked and facing other teams that have the same advantages, friends apparently evaporate.

t's easy to conclude that "friends" are in abundance when it comes to easy mode wins vs pugs or sync queuing to gain an advantage in solo ranked, but are in very short supply when it comes to facing other teams on equal footing.

Pretending that match making would victimize grouping is just another specious argument.

and there are problems with that its not that simple. Not all groups are created equal, say I am returning from a long break from the game for example with a friend, we are literally in 55 greens trying out pvp again and decide to group up. In a group only que what would happen probably is that we would end up against guys in ranked gear and augs, then well that defeats the whole purpose behind your idea I mean didn't you say the whole point is trying to get rid of those "advantages". Matchmaking would solve this but without cross server that any matchmaking is in the gutter. B: what would be the motivation to group que then? I mean no special rewards, no nothing except maybe a slightly longer que time due to Bioware admitting the populations are kind of low or something like that. C: why do you keep using friends in quotation marks? are you serious? Is it so hard to believe that two friends can honest to god group together for fun? Have YOU ever grouped for fun before because if you have you would obviously know that, and D: they could just bypass group que by queing solo all at once if they saw no real reward in group que so that would create more problems.

Stop trying to make us all sound like bullies. If two level 10's grouped for pvp to try it out together for the first time would you ever make a claim that they were trying to victimize the pugs in there? Please stop pretending people can't do stuff without an ulterior motive, personally I just screw around with my friends half the time (on mumble when capping a node I will shout "like ohmigod YES I AM DOING IT< JUST A LITTLE CLOSER, YES YES YES, BOOM DID IT!!! LOL YES!!!).

And how do you distinguish competitive team from a couple of non-competitive people who just happen to play together?

exactly, his only response to that that I have seen is putting friends in quotation marks to imply we are making up excuses instead of actually giving us an answer, please, give us an answer to this without switching topic and without making defamatory claims or implications or assumptions toward us.

edit: now I got to go for an hour and a half please give a logical, concise response please.