Right now i have:

01) War hero relic of impereling serenity

02) Dread guard relic of ephemeral mending

Are they ok?

Thanks for your input.

Are they ok?

Yes. The DG heal proc relic is the absolute BiS relic for a Shadow tank, and the EWH passive PvP Defense relic is generally considered the best option for your second slot (some people prefer a use relic as a soft survivability CD whereas others, like me, just don't like PvP and use the DG absorb proc relic).

Yes. The DG heal proc relic is the absolute BiS relic for a Shadow tank, and the EWH passive PvP Defense relic is generally considered the best option for your second slot (some people prefer a use relic as a soft survivability CD whereas others, like me, just don't like PvP and use the DG absorb proc relic).

thanks for your answer what about rakata adrenals? absorb is the recommened one?

thanks for your answer what about rakata adrenals? absorb is the recommened one?

Yup; Absorb Adrenal and Fortitude Stim.

Yup; Absorb Adrenal and Fortitude Stim.

kk thanks yep im using both.

The healing proc dread guard and the defensive on use dread guard are by far the best option, depending on your defense stacking.

I don't think the defensive on use relic would do much good due to how hard DR hits defense rating once you're close to 28/29 percent. Anyone have the math on that?

I run with Elite War Hero Relic of Imperiling Serenity and Dread Guard Relic of Shield Amplification. I wouldn't mind grabbing a Dread Guard Relic of Ephemeral Mending and being able to pick and choose which 2 of the 3 I use depending on the type of damage received in the fight.

Well, yes, im getting almost the same damage as a dps with my current relics. maybe i should give a try to the shield amplification one. IMO the ephemeral mendion one sounds for sages...

I don't think the defensive on use relic would do much good due to how hard DR hits defense rating once you're close to 28/29 percent. Anyone have the math on that?

I did the math on it a while back, and over time the defense on use relic is definitely far inferior to both the proc absorb and the static (PvP) defense relics. However, situational usage pushes up the value of this relic by quite a bit, and in ways that are unfortunately hard to model. A good example of this is the Nightmare Kephess fight, where there are discrete, punctual spurts of very high weapon damage. On that fight, I swap the on-use defense relic in for my heal relic. For most of the fight, the heal relic is better, but I really need that third cooldown while tanking Kephess himself.

For the record, my defense chance spikes up to a hair over 34% when I activate the relic, which is a gain of more than 5% (additive) from my base defense chance. So, the DR is still reasonably roomy at this point in my itemization. Roomy enough to sustain a relic activation, anyway.

Well, yes, im getting almost the same damage as a dps with my current relics. maybe i should give a try to the shield amplification one. IMO the ephemeral mendion one sounds for sages...

You need to run with better DPS. :-) I don't see how a shadow tank in *tanking* gear is going to get more than 800-900 DPS at the absolute most. Kitru is itemized partially for DPS (trading endurance for willpower at every interval), and even he only gets around 800 on an average fight. I get between 750 and 800 with my build. If I pop on my Campaign-level DPS gear, I can pretty easily get 1200 DPS in tank spec and stance, but not much more.

By way of comparison, when my Sorcerer was in Campaign gear, she was maxing at 1750 DPS. My Sentinel pushed 1850 in Campaign gear. In top-tier, optimized gear, my Sentinel does 2-2.1k DPS, which is 162% more DPS than my top-tier geared and optimized shadow tank.

IMO the ephemeral mendion one sounds for sages...

Comically enough, the heal proc relics are actually *terrible* for all healers: you can't control who the relic will proc on and, unlike DPS, you're often called to do AoE or multitarget healing for a vast majority of fights (the passive power relics actually work out better than the damage proc relics for AoE since only one target gets hit by the proc but all targets would take more damage from the increased power), not to mention the minute size of the heal amounts to all of ~25 hp/sec, which is about a .75-1.5% increase in total hp/sec *assuming* it actually lands on a target that needs to be healed (which isn't guaranteed because it can proc off of your CC heal and end up healing your enemy; more commonly, it'll just proc on a DPS who you already topped off rather than the tank who needs constant healing). As such, you actually get *more* healing out of the power relics even under optimal situations for the proc relic because the coefficients on heals are high enough that you'll get *way* more than just 25 hp/sec.

In short, the only class/spec that actually *likes* the heal proc relic is Shadow tanks, wherein it's our BiS relic for a vast majority of fights (all except for Warlord Kephess when you're actually fighting Kephess). For everyone else, it's rubbish.

In short, the only class/spec that actually *likes* the heal proc relic is Shadow tanks, wherein it's our BiS relic for a vast majority of fights (all except for Warlord Kephess when you're actually fighting Kephess). For everyone else, it's rubbish.

This is part of why the itemization change between the Campaign and Dread Guard proc heal relics was so hilarious (trading Endurance for Power). BioWare was clearly trying to make the heal proc relics more attractive for, uh, healers, but all they actually accomplished is make the relics slightly less valuable (though still BiS) for the only spec that uses them.

BioWare was clearly trying to make the heal proc relics more attractive for, uh, healers, but all they actually accomplished is make the relics slightly less valuable (though still BiS) for the only spec that uses them.

I take offense to that. The added Power made me like it even more.

This is part of why the itemization change between the Campaign and Dread Guard proc heal relics was so hilarious (trading Endurance for Power). BioWare was clearly trying to make the heal proc relics more attractive for, uh, healers, but all they actually accomplished is make the relics slightly less valuable (though still BiS) for the only spec that uses them.

And which are the 2 you prefer? names please.

I take offense to that. The added Power made me like it even more.

I know it would make you like it. :-) It is a fact though that Endurance increases shadow survivability by a not-insignificant degree because of the TkT self-heal. In my current itemization, 18 points of endurance is worth about 14 points of shield/defense/absorb. I wouldn't trade a mitigation stat for Power, so why would I swap Endurance?

Don't get me wrong, I do like having the extra threat, I would just prefer a slightly harder-hitting self-heal.

And which are the 2 you prefer? names please.

I currently use:

• War Hero Relic of Imperiling Serenity (need rated coms, stat)
  
• Dread Guard Relic of Ephemeral Mending
  

I situationally swap in the Campaign Relic of Imperiling Serenity (swapping to Dread Guard as soon as I'm fussed enough to spend the daily coms).

Guys and which are the best augment for these relics?

advanced resolve augment 22?

advanced resolve augment 22?

Depending on whether you need more Defense or Absorb (you'll always have enough Shield unless you're gearing for Accuracy, which is just bad), you either use Redoubt or Absorption augs.

I'm intrigued here, because I keep hearing how the healing Relic is BIS. I currently use the Shield Amplification one, and the passive one, (absorbs x over x secs, cannot be activated more than whatever).

I don't really have any survivability issues, but I'm always looking to improve. I don't quite understand how the healing relic improves our build, though? Can someone explain it to me like I'm the idiot that I am? I much prefer having the bonus CD for enrages, (e.g. TFB final burn phase), to strap on and hold firm. But if there's a genuine reason, then I'm willing to change!

(worth noting - I know everyone says about PvP relics, but I don't PvP, so that's not an option for me, regardless)

Can someone explain it to me like I'm the

What's there to explain? It's fairly obvious.

If the class is played correctly (which not everyone does) a big part of Shadow tanks survivability comes from self-healing and this relic will significantly increase that healing.

Despite the somewhat misleading tooltip of the relic saying "healing an ally" it does not really need to be healing an ally, but it does in fact also work with self-heals too.

Shadow tanks have 3 important abilities that cause them to heal themselves, all of which can proc additional healing from the relic.

The healing relic is especially good on bosses that do mostly force/tech damage against which tanking stats (currently while we are not yet in 2.0) do not really help, but in theory it may be BiS for all fights.

Can someone explain it to me like I'm the idiot that I am?

Defense says..."Oh...I only took 300 dmg cuz I'm defense and I rock!"... healers heal you for 300

Mending says... "Oh yeah? I took twice that.... 600 dmg....but healed my self for 505 of it, screw you Defense, you're a wimp!" ...healers heal you for 95

Sorry...you said "like an idiot"...I couldn't resist....I'm such an *****!

It's continuous small amounts of healing...which is in essence the same as not having taken the damage at all.

While, yes, my choice of example numbers are arbitrary and out of proportion, they do make the point. In game the numbers are still enough so, that the self healing does in fact provide a bigger benefit than the mitgation stats would.

Depending on the boss fight (key words there)....the self healing can reach the equivilant of as much as 180+ defense.

(worth noting - I know everyone says about PvP relics, but I don't PvP, so that's not an option for me, regardless)

I frakking HATE teh PvPz. Alas....I sucked it up and knocked out a daily quest. Just one. That gave me enough for the WH relic. I did it in PvE gear. I'm sure my team mates hated me for it. Don't care.....will never see them again.

There is only about 7 defense difference between WH and EWH. Just grit yer teeth and get it over with.

Caveat:

Looking at the new relics. The self heal goes from 505 to 634 (a 25% increase)

My health pool jumped from 27.5k to 33.9k (a 25%-ish increase)

Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

And which are the 2 you prefer? names please.

EWH defense relic, DG absorb relic. Def 30, shield 65.4, absorb 58.5, 28.8k health fully buffed and stimmed. Haven't had any problems with survivability, healing or threat management.

I'm going to revive this thread for 2.0.

What are currently considered BIS relics for Shadow Tanks? Proc heal and on use defense?

I'm still using the defense War Hero relic but I hate doing that for PVE and the changes in 2.0 seems to kill that, atleast further on.

Another question is how do I calculate the relative value of endurance to defensive stats? I'm not good at maths and it would be good to have an approximate number. Currently I go with roughly

1 rating > 1 endurance > 0.75 rating

Hey Ru'rik btw

I'm so looking forward to seeing people worship the heal proc relic again while saying Expertise should be taken instead of Mental Fortitude.

Well, I advocate Mental Foritude, so don't look at me

The question has been answered (atleast partially, and there is an ongoing discussion) here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6167097

So I guess we can let this thread sleep again