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Pvp bolster not fixed. Hurry up Titan.


Gaucho

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It seems to me that the core problem with the 54 gear is it bolsters expertise too high.

 

This is, and has been, one of the main problems with Bolster since Beta. The Bolster is too strong to make any sort of gear progression in PvP relevant.

 

Sorry, but there is no good argument anywhere that level 54 gear should be qualitatively better than, or even equivalent, to level 55 gear in any way, let alone that crafted PvE gear be better than T1 PvP gear. It's stupid.

 

The problem is compounded by the fact that Rob Hinkle has admitted that the target for Bolster is Conqueror gear and not Partisan gear. This is why many of the PvE BiS issues are happening at all. The Bolster target should be the T1 PvP gear, not the T2 gear. It was true in Beta, and it's true now, unfortunately the Devs just don't get it.

 

So at this stage, unless you really are intent on min/maxing Conqueror gear, there is no reason to grind PvP gear at all. Just gear up in min/maxed Purple crafted gear at 55 and you will be in great shape for any PvP you want to do, except for some occasional OPvP (which only happens on one server anyway). This is precisely what I'm doing for my alts at 55 btw.

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Full Conq Augmented

Mainly PVE, missing 3 augments

These two pictures show pvp gear vs. pve gear inside a wz. The difference in expertise is under 4% damage loss while using PVE, yet certain stats can still be prioritized. You can see my surge and accuracy using PVE gear is better while sacrificing only a little crit but a lot of endurance.

 

The bolster "fix" did help level the playing field, but imo still has a ways to go.

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Yep, been saying this since pts testing. They just need to set base values that everyone should be at at level 29, 54, and 55 to be competitive for each set of WZs for all stats and just automatically put everyone at those stats. Pvp gear is the only gear whos stats count towards any stat totals outside of the minimum amount. Once you get enough pvp gear to get one or more of the stats to rise higher then the minimum then that value takes over instead of the minimum.

 

So simplisitcally you join a WZ. If everyone was naked every single person would have the exact same stats across the board (obviously with main stats and secondary stats being change around according to class). If every single person had Underworld maxed gear they'd all still have the minimum stats across the board. Those who had pvp gear would have whatever values they added up to over the minimums.

 

Or am I just over simplifying this?

 

Way too simple man.

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Bolster is such a fail... What was so bad about recruit gear anyways?

 

It was horrifically underpowered. It was like giving a sky diver a helmet and telling him he had to earn his parachute. An enemy in full war hero could go through it like it was made of paper while you're attacks were seemed to merely suggest that he take damage. It was just marginally better than the level 40 greens most PvP players were running around in before they just started handing it out at fifty. Anyone lamenting for the days of Recruit Gear hadn't worn any in months.

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Just for the record, Blizzard junked what they were doing on Titan, took many of their devs off the project and announced that they are redesigning it: it's not going to be playable for at least a few years if ever.
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Just out of curiosity, just how many of you here really has met this supposed "PvE bolster exploiter" in full conqueror/aug gear and really felt that the balance was so unreasonably off that it warrants the current level of relentless whining? :confused:

 

I mean, I've seen them, I've fought against them, sometimes even in just full Partisan/aug, and frankly, apart from the higher HP (which I admit I envy a little bit), they really weren't "OP" in anyway. Its basically no different from fighting someone in full partisan with a 50:50 green/blue-and-partisan... and in a bit more comparable conditions -- in full Conq/aug setup -- there's no real noticeable difference I've felt, at the receiving end.

 

Bolster needs tweaks -- I understand that.

 

But I daresay there's something really wrong with people that seem to portray Bolster as if it were some kind of behind-everything, evil incarnate that would unbalance and destroy PvP or something. In all honesty, the difference in performance is almost negligible than compared to effects of individual difference in player skill.

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It was horrifically underpowered. It was like giving a sky diver a helmet and telling him he had to earn his parachute. An enemy in full war hero could go through it like it was made of paper while you're attacks were seemed to merely suggest that he take damage. It was just marginally better than the level 40 greens most PvP players were running around in before they just started handing it out at fifty. Anyone lamenting for the days of Recruit Gear hadn't worn any in months.

 

while this was true, the solution would have obviously been to create a mk3 set of recruit gear that was better suited to allow new players to be competitive? not to come up with this ridiculousness that is bolster

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It was horrifically underpowered. It was like giving a sky diver a helmet and telling him he had to earn his parachute. An enemy in full war hero could go through it like it was made of paper while you're attacks were seemed to merely suggest that he take damage. It was just marginally better than the level 40 greens most PvP players were running around in before they just started handing it out at fifty. Anyone lamenting for the days of Recruit Gear hadn't worn any in months.

 

Yeah but the idea of it is much better than the idea of bolster. And by that I mean I think they should just give everyone a set of gear that sets a player's stats slightly lower than partisan.

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Just out of curiosity, just how many of you here really has met this supposed "PvE bolster exploiter" in full conqueror/aug gear and really felt that the balance was so unreasonably off that it warrants the current level of relentless whining? :confused:

 

I mean, I've seen them, I've fought against them, sometimes even in just full Partisan/aug, and frankly, apart from the higher HP (which I admit I envy a little bit), they really weren't "OP" in anyway. Its basically no different from fighting someone in full partisan with a 50:50 green/blue-and-partisan... and in a bit more comparable conditions -- in full Conq/aug setup -- there's no real noticeable difference I've felt, at the receiving end.

 

Bolster needs tweaks -- I understand that.

 

But I daresay there's something really wrong with people that seem to portray Bolster as if it were some kind of behind-everything, evil incarnate that would unbalance and destroy PvP or something. In all honesty, the difference in performance is almost negligible than compared to effects of individual difference in player skill.

 

The fact that non-pvp gear is better than pvp gear is terrible and a horrible move by the dev team. The developers haven't really done anything for the pvp community lately other than this and all it did was more damage.

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When you say crafted > conq&part mianhand damage, is that in comparison to fleet conq because conq & partisan mianhand and armor rating is bolster relative to highest pve teir. So crafted may not be as good as perceived

 

Also at this point the bolster bugs are like picking at specs, they are not giving any really noticeable change or boost

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The fact that non-pvp gear is better than pvp gear is terrible and a horrible move by the dev team. The developers haven't really done anything for the pvp community lately other than this and all it did was more damage.

 

The problem is obvious... even if pvp is slightly better it wouldn't be "good" enough to put the investment into pvp gear... though what else are you supposed to do with warzone comms as you don't need planetary comms and you've stacked 2000 of each stim.

 

The only thing you have to do for PvP gear is playing... and the more you play, the more you'll get. It has 0 to do with personal skill or challenge or achievment value as the only thing anyone did was playing a lot of pvp. Even crafting these 54 purple items will hold more achievement value than pvp gear because your greens and blues have to crit and it's not a given that they will, ever. There was more achievement in the random box system they had in the beginning than what we've got now and had since then.

 

I understand all this whining being more about Bioware not doing anything for PvP player than really having an immense effect on anyones pvp experience overall or at least since the last patch. We're talking about single digit numbers and for the record... I don't agree that purple crafted gear should net higher than pvp gear but pvp is not about gear at all. They'd rather add some ridiculous weapon and armor skins for pvp ranks only so we can stop worrying about pvp stats at all and leave it all to bolster.

Edited by Sziroten
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The fact that non-pvp gear is better than pvp gear is terrible and a horrible move by the dev team. The developers haven't really done anything for the pvp community lately other than this and all it did was more damage.

 

That wasn't my question. That's a repetition of what everyone is blindly chanting nowadays. My question was;; when one is in comparable gear -- as in conq/aug gear -- to the highest possible PvE combination for inducing bolster, just how large a performance gap do they perceive, to keep up this kind of relentless hatred towards the Bolster system.

 

Frankly, I don't see any difference at all. They don't overpower me one bit, they may have a teeney bit higher damage, and perhaps a bit of more HP, but honestly I've fought much worse odds back in those days when I'd be fighting EWHs with a recruit gear, and even then I didn't complain one bit. I'm not even sure the performance difference is even noticeable to most folk, and the most recent test/evidence posted about the patched Bolster suggests that the difference is even less.

 

So, then, just how much REAL difference do you notice, to perceive this as a problem??

 

I know I see none. Am I the only person here getting sick, tired, and skeptical of people just blaming everything on Bolster without any real basis, any real examples, any real AARs?? :confused:

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The way Bolster should work is by overwriting ALL your stats with a fixed predetermined set of stats if you want it to instead of messing around with every mod in every slot (or just go back to the recruit set system cuz bolster hasn't changed anything in terms of leveling the playing field or helping new players play better in my experience). That approach is just inviting disaster, and its track record has proven just that.

 

^this

Plus, bolster affects on talent trees. :eek:

Assigning Skill Points into multiple Skill Trees now bolsters players as intended.
/facepalm

 

Current bolster system is too complicated for Bioware coders/database programmers.

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It was horrifically underpowered. It was like giving a sky diver a helmet and telling him he had to earn his parachute. An enemy in full war hero could go through it like it was made of paper while you're attacks were seemed to merely suggest that he take damage. It was just marginally better than the level 40 greens most PvP players were running around in before they just started handing it out at fifty. Anyone lamenting for the days of Recruit Gear hadn't worn any in months.

 

bolster vs recruit gear is completely independent of the question "what is the proper gear gap to have between the lowest level PvP gear and the highest level PvP gear"?

 

Endgame bolster addresses the problem of "doh, that guy isn't even wearing recruit gear!"

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bolster vs recruit gear is completely independent of the question "what is the proper gear gap to have between the lowest level PvP gear and the highest level PvP gear"?

 

Endgame bolster addresses the problem of "doh, that guy isn't even wearing recruit gear!"

 

PvP fame shouldn't be about stat gear at all...

 

1. give everyone the same standart starter armor which has expertise on for free. (best pve gear is worse than this set)

2. make cosmetic items bound to pvp rank/ achievement based (rank 100 = gold blinking armor yay)

3. implement many more maps and make them unlockable via pvp ranks = next to gathering cosmetic items the second reason to pvp frequently

4. make unlocks legacy wide

5. implement leaderboards for virtual e-peen meassure

 

= no qq'ing about pve armor at all!

= no qq'ing about premades stomping randoms because of bolster

= 100% skill based pvp

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= no qq'ing about pve armor at all!

= no qq'ing about premades stomping randoms because of bolster

= 100% skill based pvp

 

There would be QQing still. the bolster isn't even that bad. The problem lies in the fact that many can't destroy as much as they used to. most can't even tell if someone is in full part/conq/pve gear at all due to oranges, its just assumed they got stomped due to bolster because of what they are wearing and not necessarily what their opponent is wearing. on another thread there is a complaint about being smashed for 9k while in full conq now the validity of the complaint could be there depending on a variety of circumstances, but it depends on the opponents level of gear, what tweaks are made to said gear, and what lack of gear tweaks made by the victim in full conq.

 

You are right the true answer is to strip out all stats and go "naked" into pvp and really see who is best, but that is far from what players truly, deeply want from the game. Gear is something I always felt was a stupid reward (why be given something to make you better at what you are already great at doing without it?) But since our character is essentially our trophy showcase, clothes are the trophy you get.

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1. give everyone the same standart starter armor which has expertise on for free. (best pve gear is worse than this set)

 

Many people keep saying that PvP should be about skill, not gear and i could agree. But the PvP'ers that only PvP should have something to aim for, some sort of progression. Since BW will not come up with anything i wan't the gear progression to be there and i wan't best PvP gear be better (even if just slightly) than any PvE gear in PvP environment.

 

Btw if everyone was given "same standart starter armor which has expertise on for free" i wan't same starter armor for FP's and OP's, also for free.

 

I see no reason why PvE players should get things for free without working for anything and i shouldn't get the same for PvE.

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There would be QQing still. the bolster isn't even that bad. The problem lies in the fact that many can't destroy as much as they used to. most can't even tell if someone is in full part/conq/pve gear at all due to oranges, its just assumed they got stomped due to bolster because of what they are wearing and not necessarily what their opponent is wearing. on another thread there is a complaint about being smashed for 9k while in full conq now the validity of the complaint could be there depending on a variety of circumstances, but it depends on the opponents level of gear, what tweaks are made to said gear, and what lack of gear tweaks made by the victim in full conq.

 

You are right the true answer is to strip out all stats and go "naked" into pvp and really see who is best, but that is far from what players truly, deeply want from the game. Gear is something I always felt was a stupid reward (why be given something to make you better at what you are already great at doing without it?) But since our character is essentially our trophy showcase, clothes are the trophy you get.

 

There will never be no qq'ing... . It would just shift from one to another subject, in this way it would probably class "fixing".

 

Many people keep saying that PvP should be about skill, not gear and i could agree. But the PvP'ers that only PvP should have something to aim for, some sort of progression. Since BW will not come up with anything i wan't the gear progression to be there and i wan't best PvP gear be better (even if just slightly) than any PvE gear in PvP environment.

 

Btw if everyone was given "same standart starter armor which has expertise on for free" i wan't same starter armor for FP's and OP's, also for free.

 

I see no reason why PvE players should get things for free without working for anything and i shouldn't get the same for PvE.

 

That's why it is required from Bioware to put "Trohpies" in the game but rather than making it about stats, make it about visuals, titles, leaderboards. I guess someone truly successful in pvp would rather see his name on top of the list rather than having fully maxed out gear like everyone else. Even with gear... progression goes only so far and what we see for purely rated gear is afaik cosmetic differences.

 

PvE on the other hand is different. PvE is built up in a way that the game is throwing stronger and stronger enemies against you with more and more difficult scripts. Now you can also strip PvE players from a gear progression but, different from PvP, you don't face different mobs everytime you enter a zone. As soon as you managed to figure out the script it's a simple following of procedures rather than having to adjust your skills/ playes in a way to beat the encounter. This could only be achieved by having a large amount of different scripts for each individual mob.

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Hey guys,

 

Just wanted to let you know I am passing this on to the combat folks to look into. I will let you know once I have an update. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

 

-eric

 

Make sure you link this post in the stuff for your combat folks to look into, instead of the unsubstantiated and highly uneducated QQ that make up 99% of this thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6471948#post6471948

 

TLDR version: Conqueror > PvE crafted implants, ears, weapons right now. Working as intended.

 

Conqueror < Campaign weapons, primarily due to power crystals in the campaign weapons. Not working as intended.

Edited by ParagonAX
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Hey guys,

 

Just wanted to let you know I am passing this on to the combat folks to look into. I will let you know once I have an update. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

 

-eric

 

Thank you Eric.

 

It seems to be based on current evidence, the team DID dial back the bolster compared to pre-patch, but just not nearly enough. Just dial back the expertise bolstered value, and leave the rest untouched (if that's possible). I don't mind them having similar/equal stats to partisan, but it can't have similar expertise too.

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You are right the true answer is to strip out all stats and go "naked" into pvp and really see who is best,.

 

Does a focus guardian want the same stats as a vigilance guardian? Do all specs in the same tree work best with identical stats?

 

If you read the forums at all you will know that there is not universal agreement over what the ideal stats are for any particular class/spec. In other words, min/maxing is a mini-game.

 

It is possible to have the min/maxing gear mini-game with little or no grind.

 

If you want to reduce or eliminate the gear grind that is something I would discuss.

 

Above with your "naked bolster" comment you eseentially say everyone should have identical stats. I.e. the min/maxing mini-game should be eliminated. That I do not agree with.

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