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Empire or Republic?


khayyinx

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First, why do you play as Empire or as Republic?

What if all the sith emperors were good? What if instead of palpatine the emperor was a sith that just tried to make the galaxy a better place to everyone?

Think about it, all that is needed to make the galaxy the best place to live is a sith leader that is willing to fix things and knows how to do it. Palpatine could fix all the evil and problems of the galaxy if himself wasn’t crazy and evil.

Also, isn’t the republic almost as evil as the empire? Theoretically the republic is against slavery, but it does nothing about it. There are a lot of planets, like tatooine, that have slaves. Besides, the whole political system of the republic is corrupt and therefore evil. We see that in the movies, were they LET palpatine do whatever he wants because there are a lot of corrupt senators.

What I mean is, if one want to make a peaceful and prosper galaxy, isn’t a lot easier in a unified sith empire than a corrupted republic? In the empire just the emperor must be good, while in the republic all politicians do.

I’ll leave another question here. There is any famous light side sith? I know sith that later changed to light side, but left the order. And I know that the characters in this game can be lights side sith (mine is neutral). In Dromund Kaas there is a quest where a sith lord named Kel’eth Ur says about peace as a path the sith should follow. Besides him, there is any other?

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I'm a pub. I like good-guys.

 

And no; a Sith ruling would not be good for people.

 

A democracy is best for so many reasons. Yes, if you could somehow be guranteed that this Sith would be a kind and just ruler, then that'd be great. But history has prooved that giving all the power to one man just doesn't work best for the people.

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I play Republic mostly because i'm not on the 'evil is cool' bandwagon that seems to make up a lot ofStar Wars fans. That said, the Old Republic Jedi Order was a straight up cult and I much, much prefer Luke's Jedi Order.

 

I do plan to make a bounty hunter down the line though, as they've always been a very cool part of Star Wars lore.

Edited by LegendaryBlade
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A unifyed Sith Empire's problem is that it (like the Republic) is corrupt. It's better to have a collection of half-corrupt people then a single corrupted man. That's too much power and that one man WILL miss-use it. You have to limit rulers because they'll always miss-use their power. WIth that in mind, you've got to limit the governments power.
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The galaxy is so full of disparate factions, and the Republic is too corrupt. Only a heavy-handed Empire can crush the bloated Republic, root out the terrorist factions playing both sides for credits, and stabilize the galaxy. :D

 

The one-person rule thing is an...unfortunate side-effect. He should be overthrown and replaced with a People's Congress of some sort.

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The problem is, both sides lean towards opposite extremes. The Sith Empire is the epitome of intolerance with straight up specism. They believe the strong rule the weak and anyone who is not Human or Sith is a Lesser Creature who is only good as a slave or target practice. The only partial exception to this were the Chiss who worked out a deal with the Empire rather than fight them over who/what was better and just accepted Imperial Rule in exchange for allowing them to keep their government system in tact.

 

The Republic is not much better. They promote universal acceptance and try to bring in every sentient species into their collective government as they can. Which creates a bloated, unstable leadership with so many problems that it can't function properly. With populations too large and demanding with equal rights, it just breeds corruption amongst the upper class, where the Republic's Laws are bent and used to usurp power and financial gain, grinding all of the unfortunate sentients beneath them, regardless of what planet they're from. Worst of all is that Humans, for the most part, are still bigots and racist towards other species. Taris in KotoR pointed that out.

 

Oppression was evident in both sides, however for the Empire it was part of how the social hierarchy and government worked. With the Republic, it was just a side-effect of their own ruling government being incapable of doing anything more than Discussing problems instead of quickly dealing with it and cleaning up the aftermath.

 

Neither system is perfect. Both have their good points and their bad. But since they are at odds with each other, they'll never find a Middle Ground that would function and eliminate most of the problems the galaxy is plagued with.

 

I have characters in both Empire and Republic, though I am mainly Empire. It wasn't about "Evil is Cool", though Imp classes are more aesthetically pleasing. However, many of my Imp characters were geared more towards Light/Neutral standings with ideas on Improving the Empire, rather than be caught up in the Imperial War Machine and just burn everything to ash in their path. Malgus had the idea to reform the Empire, however it was imperfect and simply trying to seize power and force the change only resulted in disaster. Such changes would require decades or even centuries to fully implement since these things need to be done Gradually, and generally start with Education.

 

The Empire's problem is that most Imperial citizens are taught that the Republic is evil and that they will massacre their families if given the chance. This belief was originally brought about by the events of the Great Hyperspace War when Naga Sadow forced them into war with the Republic, lost, and then in retaliation, the Jedi and Republic did in fact try to exterminate the Sith People and chased the remnants into the Unknown Regions. Darth Vitiate, who would become the Sith Emperor, engrained the belief that the Republic will forever try to exterminate their race and their way of life if they do not follow him and obey his teachings.

 

When it comes down to it, the Sith are not all bad nor inherently evil, and the Jedi are not all good nor is their wisdom in the best interest of the Republic, since it caries their prejudice of the Sith and the idea that the only Philosophy about the Force that is correct is their own and everyone else is wrong.

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Actually... If Sidious hadn't been defeated, his massive navy and elite troopers would have been ready for the Vong invasion. The death star would have been VERY convenient to have around to blow their moving home world away:rolleyes:

 

It was a very long time ago, so I won't be able to find the post, but someone pointed out that everything Sidious was doing before the Rebel Alliance appeared, was preparing for something. This person provided even more evidence that the thing Sidious was preparing for was indeed the Vong invasion. Why would you build a massive station capable destroying planets (Which the Vong planet doubled as their primary base), without anyone to fight? Sidious didn't need the death star to end the clone wars, and he knew that. He wasn't expecting the Rebels to appear either, so the death star was not built to fight an insurgency.

Edited by Amien
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My point is, i don't see the Republic turning the galaxy a perfect place to live in any situation, while for the empire all that it takes is a good and efficient leader.

 

Freedom isn't perfect, but it's still better than subjugation. "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." -C.S. Lewis

 

Plus, if there was no battle between good and evil in Star Wars and The Empire was simply another way to govern...Star Wars would get real boring real fast.

 

Oh, and I'm Republic, all the way. :sy_republic::sy_lightside:

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First, why do you play as Empire?

 

they have all cookies!

and red lightsabers too...

 

or as Republic?

 

To burn out the Galaxy for the Greater Good!

oh, it's another galaxy...

 

What if all the sith emperors were good? What if instead of palpatine the emperor was a sith that just tried to make the galaxy a better place to everyone?

 

there is only justice when everyone is equally unsatisfied!

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I mainly play on the Empire side for a few reasons, the majority of them are vanity reasons.

 

The first and biggest would be that my Sorcerer was my first 50 toon I had achieved and because of that I know more people on the Empire. The second is the animations, the animations for the Republic characters feel dry and empty to me, they lack the visual flare (I especially love lightning from sorcs :p). The third reason is playing through the Empire story multiple times and only playing the Republic toon once, I noticed there is a lot less corruption in politicians on the Empire side. I don't necessarily agree with the whole genocide hysteria the Imps have, but I appreciate the lack of corruption. I am also beginning to think that the people of the Empire themselves and not the Sith are not all that bad. Throughout the agent story line its the Sith and other force-users who seem to cause a lot of the problems the galaxy faces, take away the Sith, and the Empire is actually full of good people. Finally the biggest vanity reason is the ship design of Imperial ships. I hate the Republic Hammerheads more than anything else. With the more classic Star Destroyer designs of the Empire, I like to play them more.

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I play mainly Republic, but I have a few Empire characters as well. I will openly say that I am heavily Republic leaning in my play and personal philosophy. The only reason I play Empire at all is because of friends of mine who play that side that I want to talk to/game with.

 

I've noticed that most of the pro-Empire posts here have to insert hypotheticals or brush off parts of Imperial doctrine/culture that undermine their argument. IF the Emperor was good, IF the Sith were fair and noble minded. IF this and If that. They aren't; no amount of what ifs will change that.

 

The reality is that the Empire is rabidly xenophobic and genocidal, elitist to an extent that even humans who can't use the Force are second class citizens and can be slain on a whim by their Sith overlords, and that any social mobility is an illusion unless you're a Sith. Because even if you're a Moff, some punk Sith can still decide to part your hair with a lightning bolt and it's his right to do so. And even if you are Sith, you can be murdered by your fellows (who are encouraged to do so) if they want your stuff and it will be institutionally ignored. Playing Empire side, I've lost count of how many missions I've had to do that are all the result of Darth Ponderous or Lord Pretensor's grudge/pet project/cause being put forth and dozens/hundreds/thousands of lives and millions of credits wasted by the Empire. That seems pretty corrupt to me.

 

The OP also castigated the Republic for allowing slavery in other governments but the fact that the Empire openly enslaves hundreds of millions of people is all right somehow. There is no slavery in the Republic; it is illegal and those who practice it are criminals who are pursued and prosecuted when caught. If there is slavery in parts of the galaxy that are not part of the Republic, it is not their job to make other governments do what they want. They control their territory, their citizens, and their laws, not that of other people.

 

The Republic is flawed; there's no such thing as a perfect government of any kind but any one that is based on the activity and will of the populace will be as flawed as people are. The Republic as an institution is more fair, more open, and more capable of change and advancement. There will be corruption, because some people are corrupt but it's not the institutionalized and accepted corruption of the Sith Empire. The corruption can also be expunged more easily; in a democracy, the government can be overthrown whenever the populace wants it to be and change effected. If the people want it and are willing to buckle down and do it, all the structures and systems are in place to effect change. It's not that it is perfect but that it can be that way if the people try hard enough. Reformers in the Republic build support, win small victories and build on them, gaining momentum until change is effected. Reformers in the Empire are killed.

 

In the Empire, there's no reason to want to change anything and even if you did, there's no way to do it without a coup d'etat, the structure doesn't support that kind of thing. The more terrible parts of the Empire are, in fact, essential for it's functioning. The Empire needs slavery; it couldn't afford to do all the things it does if it had to pay for all that work/food/equipment. The Empire needs xenophobia because it keeps the ruling class from completely disintegrating into paranoid massacres that would fracture it immediately; it creates a boogeyman for them all to unite against. The Jedi and the Republic work the same way for that purpose. The Empire's evil is part of the institution and thus any attempt to change it would have to fundamentally remake the institution itself.

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Some people forget that not everyone in the Empire is xenophobic, homicidal and/or genocidal. There are a number of people whose views/beliefs differ than that of the rest of the Empire. This was seen very early on Dromund Kaas in the Dark Temple. You speak with the image of an ancient Sith Lord who followed the Light Side and who was killed by the Emperor for preaching teachings different than that of the Emperor's.

 

You have the General in the Black Talon flashpoint who turns against the Empire because he knows of the horrors that'd come about if another war happened. There's Elara Dorne the Trooper Companion who is an Imperial that defected to the Republic because her beliefs about the Empire and the Republic changed and she knew that senseless killings were wrong. And there are many more examples. Such as some Sith companions speaking of Apprentices in the Sith Academy focusing on the Light Side and looking for means to either leave and study freely or try and stay to help others see a different path. And these decisions were all made on their own without Jedi conferring with them.

 

The Agent storyline also shows us that there are entire groups in the Empire who are not xenophobic and who will willingly bring Aliens into their divisions in order to increase their numbers and efficiency. Imperial Intelligence has members that are not human and it is because they have skills that will help the Empire and are treated as Assets, not slaves.

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I've noticed that most of the pro-Empire posts here have to insert hypotheticals or brush off parts of Imperial doctrine/culture that undermine their argument. IF the Emperor was good, IF the Sith were fair and noble minded. IF this and If that. They aren't; no amount of what ifs will change that.

 

"Hypotheticals" are important to consider, because civilizations aren't static.

 

The reality is that the Empire is rabidly xenophobic and genocidal, elitist to an extent that even humans who can't use the Force are second class citizens and can be slain on a whim by their Sith overlords,

 

As someone else said, there are those trying to reform the Empire to change this. While there may be no outright massacres of aliens in the Republic, to say there's no xenophobia would be absurd.

 

and that any social mobility is an illusion unless you're a Sith.

 

If you're one of the millions (maybe billions) in Coruscant's undercity, or aren't part of the nobility on Alderaan, then your lack social mobility is all but guaranteed. In the Empire, if you prove your patriotism and ability to contribute, then you may advance (although there are obvious barriers to this as well).

 

Because even if you're a Moff, some punk Sith can still decide to part your hair with a lightning bolt and it's his right to do so. And even if you are Sith, you can be murdered by your fellows (who are encouraged to do so) if they want your stuff and it will be institutionally ignored.

 

Not exactly. The Empire has to put up a united front against the Republic on some level. You can't just go around slaughtering all the Moffs you want without consequences to morale etc., and while you are right about many of the Sith, they are capable of working together when necessary.

 

Playing Empire side, I've lost count of how many missions I've had to do that are all the result of Darth Ponderous or Lord Pretensor's grudge/pet project/cause being put forth and dozens/hundreds/thousands of lives and millions of credits wasted by the Empire. That seems pretty corrupt to me.

 

Not sure what you mean by this. The "pet projects" I've seen are of some benefit to the Imperial war effort. If they somehow hold it back for personal gain, they won't last long.

 

The OP also castigated the Republic for allowing slavery in other governments but the fact that the Empire openly enslaves hundreds of millions of people is all right somehow. There is no slavery in the Republic; it is illegal and those who practice it are criminals who are pursued and prosecuted when caught. If there is slavery in parts of the galaxy that are not part of the Republic, it is not their job to make other governments do what they want. They control their territory, their citizens, and their laws, not that of other people.

 

You mean "if" they're caught. Clearly groups like the Black Sun or the Exchange can and have operated under the Republic's nose. The Republic is also trying to win the Hutts' favour just as much as the Empire, and the Hutts are known slavers. There is also a moral argument to be made that "There is no such thing as an innocent bystander"---i.e. if the Republic doesn't even attempt to bargain with the Hutts to free slaves, but actually goes out of its way to ignore slavery when trying to win the Hutts' favour, they are complicit.

 

there's no such thing as a perfect government of any kind but any one that is based on the activity and will of the populace will be as flawed as people are.

 

Says you! Seriously, though, neither government is based on the will of the people. The difference is that the Empire doesn't pretend to be. Before you can have that kind of government, though, you need stability. The Republic is too bloated and corrupt, with too many different interests trying to pull its strings to be stable or effective.

 

The Republic as an institution is more fair, more open, and more capable of change and advancement.

 

It's not more fair or open to all of its citizens living in poverty. It's not more fair or open to those living under monarchies like on Alderaan or Naboo. The Empire is capable of change because it takes action. When the Republic takes action, it struggles to present a united front, as some worlds are simply abandoned to fend for themselves and ultimately are lost.

 

There will be corruption, because some people are corrupt but it's not the institutionalized and accepted corruption of the Sith Empire.

 

"Some people are corrupt" is just a meaningless platitude. Corrupt bureaucrats are corrupt because they have incentives to be corrupt in the system in which they operate. Corruption is not tolerated in the Empire. Certainly some beings become very powerful and murder/steal/etc., but anyone who holds back in the fight against the Republic or who cuts corners instead of ensuring efficiency is, well, removed. Incompetent or corrupt Moffs are removed, for example.

 

The corruption can also be expunged more easily; in a democracy, the government can be overthrown whenever the populace wants it to be and change effected. If the people want it and are willing to buckle down and do it, all the structures and systems are in place to effect change. It's not that it is perfect but that it can be that way if the people try hard enough. Reformers in the Republic build support, win small victories and build on them, gaining momentum until change is effected. Reformers in the Empire are killed.

 

First, the Republic is an oligarchy, not a democracy. Second, not all reformers in the Empire are killed. Those who openly declare their intent to act probably are, but even on Dromund Kaas itself a hidden Revanite camp exists.

 

In the Empire, there's no reason to want to change anything

 

This makes no sense.

 

and even if you did, there's no way to do it without a coup d'etat, the structure doesn't support that kind of thing. The more terrible parts of the Empire are, in fact, essential for it's functioning.

 

Same goes for the Republic. You can remove corrupt Senators who are caught being corrupt in order to keep up appearances, but the same bureaucratic games and monarchies and poverty and crime remain.

 

The Empire needs slavery; it couldn't afford to do all the things it does if it had to pay for all that work/food/equipment.

 

Sure it could. Besides, if the Empire needs slaves, it needs people in a good enough state to work. The Republic simply lets beings rot in the undercity of Coruscant or allows nobility on Alderaan to exploit others.

 

The Empire needs xenophobia because it keeps the ruling class from completely disintegrating into paranoid massacres that would fracture it immediately; it creates a boogeyman for them all to unite against.

 

Nope, and Malgus explains why this is wrong. For one, the Republic is a common enemy (not necessarily a "boogeyman"---regardless of who started the war, the Republic wants to destroy the Empire and hence is not a threat someone just made up), so you don't need to hate aliens. Regardless, xenophobia need not be permanent. Agents are constantly reaching out to other civilizations and groups on the Empire's behalf---a whole bureau called the "Diplomatic Service" is devoted to this.

 

The Empire's evil is part of the institution and thus any attempt to change it would have to fundamentally remake the institution itself.

 

If you can say that about the Empire, then you can say it about the Republic. But really, civilizations can and do change.

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The empire I agree with, if they had a few tweaks they would truly be great for the advancement of the galaxy. The republic with tweaks could work too..but they have more tweaking needed than the empire. If you want a good analogy of the republic check history and look up the actual IRL League of Nations....and how greatly they prevented ww2 from occurring. The mask of democracy and freedom can only take you so far, inherently for things to be accomplished and done 100% freedom is not possible w/o inviting anarchy. Keeping everyone on an even playing field also gets more difficult the larger the population. Saying republic=good empire=bad is taking he simple black and white approach to a grey issue. Just because a republic is a republic and we are TAUGHT to value what a republic means does not mean this REPUBLIC= our republic we are accustomed to in this present time.
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I myself am fairly new and play mostly empire. I enjoy the do-it-or-die challenge and brutal cunning and violence of sith and imperial anything in general.

 

However, this thread is sounding a lot more like irl politics than a game all of a sudden :sul_wink:

 

Would I want either of these for an irl government? I think not.

 

The Empire is evil. It is run by Sith, who are of the dark side, love war and violence, started this war that has killed needless thousands (even of their own), they are expansionist at heart, did I mention evil?

 

Now, if you were to replace all the sith with your hypothetical phlosipher king as you suggest, a sort of completely un-corruptable (didn't you mention that the senators couldn't resist their smaller ever-present lure of corruption?) who could out of the sheer goodness of his heart punish all the evil and leave only good. Yes, then you would be completely fine. However, if we are talking irl, I seem to not remember any fantasticly perfect dictators...

 

In the Empire, you can do whatever you want as long as it helps "the Empire". So if you're a slave, well I'm sorry, not only do you have poverty, little upward mobility, and poor conditions: here enjoy this slave driver, family destruction for convience, and zero freedom to decide at least how you will live your sad life.

 

Lastly, in the Empire, does it seem all that likely that someone who has the freedom to punish or kill their subordanates at will will really be nicer than someone held to standards of respect (not just effectiveness)? I seem to remember nazis having the same freedom, they were nice...

 

Now to the Republic.

 

The Republic has a decent representative system but as far as I can see lacks any real jusidial mechinisim. It has a representative main body, but each of those folks come from largely monarchical or other planets (which seems to be where you pointed to for a lot of your objections)

 

The Jedi Order you could claim are close to judges. Personally I don't want a cop and a judge to be the same person. That also has a nagging corruption tendacy. "This guys punched me in the face bring him in, I'm sure he stole that car too." Jouries anyone?

 

Also, the fact that there was no clear executive power in the Republic is what seems to have allowed the Palpitine to take over so easily when they (the senators) needed quick action. No, the Republic is very much a hob-gobled conglomoration of various systems held together by a few decent (not perfect) souls as well as a bunch of wannbe monarchs who ONLY seem half decent because they don't want to be thrown out and get away with whatever they can. (However, the idea of a representative system at least attempts to limit this). They certainly have poor, but you can't eliminate poor by force without just using up untold time and resources taking away from anyone who has more than someone else. The Republic and it's monkish cult of Jedi aren't up to standards for a real life government, but then again, nobody should expect them to be. It's an idle-ised story after all.

 

 

I would conclude by pointing out that empire-is-really-best-for-everyone folks seem to be looking for the exceptions (but there is this nice empire group over here, and look, this guy earned his rank with honor and effecency) (but this republic guy was so corrupt, look at this shadey deal!) while the republic-is-the-true-hope certainly make generalizations that are not, and can not be, always true.

 

I am confident that you all understand that this game has been carefully balenced to allow upperward mobility and power for all classes (a real sith empire could not be rated 18 or under, or within sane decency for that matter). These factions are the product of storywriting and of course the writiers will bring out very unlikely good elements from Empire and evil elements from Republic. That's good and not boring story. Niether of these factions should be concidered as slightly feasible irl. Light side dark side anyone? Keep it simple. It's fun.

 

Irl politics are confusing, messy and take more than hypotheticals. They take history, insight, and fundamental princiiples.

 

 

As for me: I play to continue enjoying and loving my sith inquizitor, who zaps everyone, schemes regularly, and generally does evil in a very PG and unevil, lulz way.

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I myself am fairly new and play mostly empire. I enjoy the do-it-or-die challenge and brutal cunning and violence of sith and imperial anything in general.

 

However, this thread is sounding a lot more like irl politics than a game all of a sudden :sul_wink:

 

Would I want either of these for an irl government? I think not.

 

The Empire is evil. It is run by Sith, who are of the dark side, love war and violence, started this war that has killed needless thousands (even of their own), they are expansionist at heart, did I mention evil?

 

Now, if you were to replace all the sith with your hypothetical phlosipher king as you suggest, a sort of completely un-corruptable (didn't you mention that the senators couldn't resist their smaller ever-present lure of corruption?) who could out of the sheer goodness of his heart punish all the evil and leave only good. Yes, then you would be completely fine. However, if we are talking irl, I seem to not remember any fantasticly perfect dictators...

 

In the Empire, you can do whatever you want as long as it helps "the Empire". So if you're a slave, well I'm sorry, not only do you have poverty, little upward mobility, and poor conditions: here enjoy this slave driver, family destruction for convience, and zero freedom to decide at least how you will live your sad life.

 

Lastly, in the Empire, does it seem all that likely that someone who has the freedom to punish or kill their subordanates at will will really be nicer than someone held to standards of respect (not just effectiveness)? I seem to remember nazis having the same freedom, they were nice...

 

Now to the Republic.

 

The Republic has a decent representative system but as far as I can see lacks any real jusidial mechinisim. It has a representative main body, but each of those folks come from largely monarchical or other planets (which seems to be where you pointed to for a lot of your objections)

 

The Jedi Order you could claim are close to judges. Personally I don't want a cop and a judge to be the same person. That also has a nagging corruption tendacy. "This guys punched me in the face bring him in, I'm sure he stole that car too." Jouries anyone?

 

Also, the fact that there was no clear executive power in the Republic is what seems to have allowed the Palpitine to take over so easily when they (the senators) needed quick action. No, the Republic is very much a hob-gobled conglomoration of various systems held together by a few decent (not perfect) souls as well as a bunch of wannbe monarchs who ONLY seem half decent because they don't want to be thrown out and get away with whatever they can. (However, the idea of a representative system at least attempts to limit this). They certainly have poor, but you can't eliminate poor by force without just using up untold time and resources taking away from anyone who has more than someone else. The Republic and it's monkish cult of Jedi aren't up to standards for a real life government, but then again, nobody should expect them to be. It's an idle-ised story after all.

 

 

I would conclude by pointing out that empire-is-really-best-for-everyone folks seem to be looking for the exceptions (but there is this nice empire group over here, and look, this guy earned his rank with honor and effecency) (but this republic guy was so corrupt, look at this shadey deal!) while the republic-is-the-true-hope certainly make generalizations that are not, and can not be, always true.

 

I am confident that you all understand that this game has been carefully balenced to allow upperward mobility and power for all classes (a real sith empire could not be rated 18 or under, or within sane decency for that matter). These factions are the product of storywriting and of course the writiers will bring out very unlikely good elements from Empire and evil elements from Republic. That's good and not boring story. Niether of these factions should be concidered as slightly feasible irl. Light side dark side anyone? Keep it simple. It's fun.

 

Irl politics are confusing, messy and take more than hypotheticals. They take history, insight, and fundamental princiiples.

 

 

As for me: I play to continue enjoying and loving my sith inquizitor, who zaps everyone, schemes regularly, and generally does evil in a very PG and unevil, lulz way.

 

Of course you need to go beyond hypotheticals. I was simply saying they can have a use (i.e. when they're hypotheses based on history, etc). It may take a lot of resources to root out that kind of corruption, but it's worth it (hence a whole branch of the Empire that is in a way partly devoted to it). Also, the Jedi are not a cult, and are held to high standards so as not to abuse power (and the Republic has courts---the Jedi are not the judges). :mad: Others might think it's possible, but I certainly never said anything about a benevolent dictator. There are decent people in the Empire who would arguably make a better government than either the Sith order or the Republic. Aside from that, those are all pretty good points.

Edited by BradTheImpaler
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I play both and enjoy the lore of both sides.

 

On the one hand, you have the Empire whose citizens for the most part would give their lives to protect their beliefs. And not all of them are fanatical individuals bent on destruction. However the majority are. But you do see insight into their culture. Crime rates are low. On Dromund Kaas in Kaas City, you ever notice how clean and aesthetically pleasing to the eye it is. The Republic on the other hand has more of a run down feel to it. The Sith are all about appearance and it shows. But when you get to their rulers, that's where my praise ends. The Sith are not 'nice' masters to have. They hate aliens, have slaves, and will kill at the first hint of incompetence. Even the military. The side mission you get where you have to kill the guys wife because she cheated on him. Or the paranoia. Fear is what truly drives this society and fear cannot be the one thing that unites people for the better good.

 

Then you have the Republic. Politicians will like out of one side of their face, and kiss their mother's right after. But in this case, it isn't the majority. You see individuals in the government who truly do care and want to help, but with so many freedoms comes people who will abuse those freedoms and find loopholes around anything they can to get their way. But the people are what really make the republic shine. And the Jedi. They give of themselves to the point where they face death, not for the politicians but for the people. Such a huge opposite of the Sith.

 

I play both sides though because the characters we create are based on iconic figures in movies, books and comics. Obviously I love playing my Jedi Knight/Consular but I've had a lot of enjoyment from my Smuggler and Bounty Hunter class as well. The Sith toons have been harder to play because I feel you have be evil to play a Sith and I can never bring myself to fully embrace the dark side. I'm usually neutral or light. I do lean more towards the Jedi tho.

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I say again, if the empire was minus dumb sith..they'd be the superior force. Maybe its just me and I see that irl "democracy" isn't so democratic and society is always one group or groups outplaying the other. The empire is just upfront about this. I think other than the dumb sith and wanna be righteous jedi... neither side is bad. (ok and repub need to execute those corrupt politicians).
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Freedom isn't perfect, but it's still better than subjugation. "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." -C.S. Lewis

 

Plus, if there was no battle between good and evil in Star Wars and The Empire was simply another way to govern...Star Wars would get real boring real fast.

 

Oh, and I'm Republic, all the way. :sy_republic::sy_lightside:

 

^^ You summed it up there. A democracy is far from perfect, but it is the best thing we've got.

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I play mainly Republic, but I have a few Empire characters as well. I will openly say that I am heavily Republic leaning in my play and personal philosophy. The only reason I play Empire at all is because of friends of mine who play that side that I want to talk to/game with.

 

I've noticed that most of the pro-Empire posts here have to insert hypotheticals or brush off parts of Imperial doctrine/culture that undermine their argument. IF the Emperor was good, IF the Sith were fair and noble minded. IF this and If that. They aren't; no amount of what ifs will change that.

 

The reality is that the Empire is rabidly xenophobic and genocidal, elitist to an extent that even humans who can't use the Force are second class citizens and can be slain on a whim by their Sith overlords, and that any social mobility is an illusion unless you're a Sith. Because even if you're a Moff, some punk Sith can still decide to part your hair with a lightning bolt and it's his right to do so. And even if you are Sith, you can be murdered by your fellows (who are encouraged to do so) if they want your stuff and it will be institutionally ignored. Playing Empire side, I've lost count of how many missions I've had to do that are all the result of Darth Ponderous or Lord Pretensor's grudge/pet project/cause being put forth and dozens/hundreds/thousands of lives and millions of credits wasted by the Empire. That seems pretty corrupt to me.

 

The OP also castigated the Republic for allowing slavery in other governments but the fact that the Empire openly enslaves hundreds of millions of people is all right somehow. There is no slavery in the Republic; it is illegal and those who practice it are criminals who are pursued and prosecuted when caught. If there is slavery in parts of the galaxy that are not part of the Republic, it is not their job to make other governments do what they want. They control their territory, their citizens, and their laws, not that of other people.

 

The Republic is flawed; there's no such thing as a perfect government of any kind but any one that is based on the activity and will of the populace will be as flawed as people are. The Republic as an institution is more fair, more open, and more capable of change and advancement. There will be corruption, because some people are corrupt but it's not the institutionalized and accepted corruption of the Sith Empire. The corruption can also be expunged more easily; in a democracy, the government can be overthrown whenever the populace wants it to be and change effected. If the people want it and are willing to buckle down and do it, all the structures and systems are in place to effect change. It's not that it is perfect but that it can be that way if the people try hard enough. Reformers in the Republic build support, win small victories and build on them, gaining momentum until change is effected. Reformers in the Empire are killed.

 

In the Empire, there's no reason to want to change anything and even if you did, there's no way to do it without a coup d'etat, the structure doesn't support that kind of thing. The more terrible parts of the Empire are, in fact, essential for it's functioning. The Empire needs slavery; it couldn't afford to do all the things it does if it had to pay for all that work/food/equipment. The Empire needs xenophobia because it keeps the ruling class from completely disintegrating into paranoid massacres that would fracture it immediately; it creates a boogeyman for them all to unite against. The Jedi and the Republic work the same way for that purpose. The Empire's evil is part of the institution and thus any attempt to change it would have to fundamentally remake the institution itself.

 

Preach it!!

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