That is not the problem, the problem is that in SWTOR the person that gets the first hit on a mob owns the kill. In ESO for example everyone that does at least 3% damage to a mob also gets credit for the kill so you can't "steal" kills from people and in fact more people at a World Boss or Heroic area is actually good. I don't want to be left alone, I want to be able to finish my missions.

That is actually a great suggestion! Thank you for saying that!

I agree, it SHOULD be that way. Thank you for putting it like that. Now I think I understand some people's perspectives a little better.

Dumb is paying to live in a city then complaining about there being a population. And I'm not sure where the forced grouping concept came from because the only content in this game that even suggests forced grouping is when someone intentionally queues for group content in Group Finder. Honestly, if a "just leave me alone" player is expecting a MMO to be devoid of players so they can just be left alone then MMOs are probably not in their best gaming interests.

What is dumb, is the constant use of the statement "It's an MMO" to denegrate concerns other players have. The original poster had an issue with being able to complete the content in a timely manner (not all that different from what group players were saying before the merges) and the response to him was that this is an MMO. The poster "pays" to play in this city too, so he has some right to believe his concerns should be answered as well. The problem is there is a very simple solution to solve his issue and that is simply to lower the number of players in an area it takes to trigger a new instance but as soon as that is brought up out comes the "It's an MMO" meme again..

You'd think after all these years this bickering about how an MMO should be played would've died out, but nooooooo.

 

There are many other things to do in an MMO aside from grouping up to combat. Socialising, crafting, exploring etc. This attempt to relegate those with a playstyle preference that is catered to (along with other styles) by the studio that created the game via the dismissive "go play a solo game" is really, really getting old. Like, literally, nearly 20 years old. Note, too, that the smart studios realised that they were missing a trick with the "must group" mentality and started working in solo/duo content which has been a nice draw for many players.

 

That said, in a sense there is nothing stopping them except for their preference in how to avail themselves of the content provided. Imagine, if you will, how you'd like it if all of a sudden you could no longer play in the way that brings you enjoyment. I rather expect you might be a bit put out.

Well, from what I can see it's not catered to. If it was, you wouldn't be having problems.

It seems to me that you are a person who benefited from low server populations because of your playstyle. They merged the servers now. Now populations are higher. And now you're having problems you may have had before because of that. If they endorsed your playstyle, they'd work a way to fix it. They haven't....doesn't that lead you to believe that maybe they don't endorse it?

And also I would like to say that the reason this argument keeps coming up over and over is because it has merit. I would be frustrated too if I had to keep elaborating --- for 20 years did you say? --- for something that needs to be constantly propped up because it can't stand on it's own.

OH....and one more thing: KOTET and KOTEF are basically single player. There's your answer. Go play that game......so yeah.....

I don't understand what you mean by no 'targets' available. Can you elaborate on that please?

 

And per your second point, you don't have to be all at the same point. I have grouped up myself with people who were just starting story missions, and I simply took ahold of my patience and sportsmanship and did it all over again with them. Most times, it turns out I'm a more experienced player, and they have asked me questions along the way about the game while I'm helping them. Can I ask, have you been playing the game a long time? A new player may benefit from this sort of short-term tutelage. Maybe try whispering them while they're moving along and specifically say something like, 'Hey if we group up together we can help each other out,' that way they know what your intentions are when you invite them. There are a lot of other ways you could put it too.

 

Grouping in this manner /does/ happen. I have experienced it firsthand from both perspectives.

 

 

 

If I had to guess, your experience sounds similar to the guy I quoted above. Try whispering these people, and simply ask, 'do you mind if I group with you? that way we can help each other do the mission(s).' I appreciate it when people let me know what their intentions are.

 

I have to agree with Galactic Keeper and Talon_Strikes on this one. This is a multiplayer game. What really would be the point of having all these things instanced if it's a multiplayer game? The very fact that they're not leads one to believe that it is. If someone doesn't like it, they can play KOTOR or KOTOR 2. OR....OR....They can be grateful they are able to play solo at all, even though obviously it has downsides like waiting on other people who exist in the world, instead of beeyotching about it like children.

As an example that I just completed on Tatooine. There are 5 infiltrators that you need to kill that are spread out all over Mos Ila. Since I have played this game a lot I know where they all are. Going from location to location I found that they had all already been killed and during that time did not see another person killing one of them. That is what I meant. As far as grouping at different points, yes it is possible but the likelihood of it occurring goes down the closer to completion people get. And as I said in response to Talon, it's all fine and dandy to say people should group but the fact is they don't and nothing anyone can do is going to make that happen. It just makes the game unpleasant to play. Personally I don't have a problem with the whole competing for objectives because I know the tricks. New players don't and they are the ones being impacted (and frustrated).

You mean ... like a MMO?

Right?! Perhaps multiplayer games aren't something the OP should be playing.

Oh you mean the ones you invite that decline. Yea that really works doesn't it. I have always been the type to send out an invite for someone in the area, especially on DK, Cor and Taris, to join my group and when we were on Ebon Hawk it worked but now hahahahahahahahahaha they decline.

The problem is there is a very simple solution to solve his issue and that is simply to lower the number of players in an area it takes to trigger a new instance but as soon as that is brought up out comes the "It's an MMO" meme again..

That's not a bad suggestion. I can see reasoning in that. It would help those who prefer to play that way, or if they have no patience, or maybe they're on a time limit.

Right?! Perhaps multiplayer games aren't something the OP should be playing.

I can see it now. Keith will come back with "C'mon people ... you griped mightily about low server populations, so we merge the servers ... and now you want us to add additional instances so you can avoid the increased server population you asked for? You really have no clue what you want do you? Okay then ... this will be the last time we listen to your sorry asses!"

That's what happens when you have a 50/50 split in what the population wants.

That's what happens when you have a 50/50 split in what the population wants.

As an example that I just completed on Tatooine. There are 5 infiltrators that you need to kill that are spread out all over Mos Ila. Since I have played this game a lot I know where they all are. Going from location to location I found that they had all already been killed and during that time did not see another person killing one of them. That is what I meant.

Okay, thank your for elaborating. I see what you mean now. Could you not just wait, or keep moving from location to location until you find one? I experienced this on Alderaan the other day doing a kilik heroic; I had to kill a certain amount of kiliks for one of the objectives and someone else was there. I had to move around to different spots where I knew the mobs would be. Took longer than I would have liked, but I got it done.

As far as grouping at different points, yes it is possible but the likelihood of it occurring goes down the closer to completion people get. And as I said in response to Talon, it's all fine and dandy to say people should group but the fact is they don't and nothing anyone can do is going to make that happen. It just makes the game unpleasant to play. Personally I don't have a problem with the whole competing for objectives because I know the tricks. New players don't and they are the ones being impacted (and frustrated).

It does happen. I promise it does. I do it. I've done it. Try whispering them and be specific about your intentions. Ask them to group. You will find some people are arse-wholes but some aren't. That's the nature of humanity. Maybe these new people could benefit from your experience. Sometimes you'll be spoken to rudely, other times not. That's a fact of life, in dealing with other human beings.

Would love to see those analytics ...

Sure seems like there are an equal number of people now complaining about crowded instances and were complaining about empty instances.

Sure seems like there are an equal number of people now complaining about crowded instances and were complaining about empty instances.

A lot of people come on here specifically only to complain or to argue. How many great job, BW threads have you read lately? I bet the number is very small compared to those that are arguing or complaining.

Personally looking at that wouldn't really tell you either way, in my opinion. But I just think this game's real, target , at least in it's original concept, is multiplayer-based with some single-player stuff.

Well, from what I can see it's not catered to. If it was, you wouldn't be having problems.

 

It seems to me that you are a person who benefited from low server populations because of your playstyle. They merged the servers now. Now populations are higher. And now you're having problems you may have had before because of that. If they endorsed your playstyle, they'd work a way to fix it. They haven't....doesn't that lead you to believe that maybe they don't endorse it?

 

And also I would like to say that the reason this argument keeps coming up over and over is because it has merit. I would be frustrated too if I had to keep elaborating --- for 20 years did you say? --- for something that needs to be constantly propped up because it can't stand on it's own.

 

OH....and one more thing: KOTET and KOTEF are basically single player. There's your answer. Go play that game......so yeah.....

Wow...surly much?

It is catered to as can be demonstrated by comparison to, say, UO, EQ, DAoC etc. In fact when WoW came out and did away with a lot of the mechanics from prior MMOs (including the NEED to group) well, we all saw how that helped mainstream MMOs and cater to playstyles other than "must group to get anywhere".

Obviously they do cater to solo players. That you don't see that is rather bemusing. It's one of the playstyles supported along with duo/small group, large groups and OP sized groups. Class stories, FPs, Heroics, most all can be solo'd at "story" level. Looks like catering to me.

I don't understand the need to be snarky. Why do some folk who aren't into soloing/duoing have the need to denigrate those who are? MMOs are pretty diverse these days. MMOs also are works in progress. So when the pendulum swings one way, it'll be sure to swing the other eventually.

We're arse to cheek just now with the merges and those who don't like that aren't best pleased whereas those who've been begging to be plopped into populus servers are. Time passes, we'll see how this shakes out. I'm pretty darn sure that BW has the numbers and realise that the solo/duo types make up a large percentage of their customer base.

I can see it now. Keith will come back with "C'mon people ... you griped mightily about low server populations, so we merge the servers ... and now you want us to add additional instances so you can avoid the increased server population you asked for? You really have no clue what you want do you? Okay then ... this will be the last time we listen to your sorry asses!"

Not sure this had much to do with what the players wanted. Think it's more to do with bottom line/expediency.

A lot of people come on here specifically only to complain or to argue. How many great job, BW threads have you read lately? I bet the number is very small compared to those that are arguing or complaining.

 

Personally looking at that wouldn't really tell you either way, in my opinion. But I just think this game's real, target , at least in it's original concept, is multiplayer-based with some single-player stuff.

Daniel Erickson: When we said, hey, we’re going to do our first MMO, the obvious [pillar] to talk about first, even though none of the pillars can stand without the rest of them, and none of them are more important than the rest of them, we’re talking about story first because story is the delta. It’s the thing we’re doing that other people have not done.

 

We’re approaching it the same way we’ve always approached storytelling in games, which is that you need to have a heroic, unique experience, with choice that affects what you do.

Okay, thank your for elaborating. I see what you mean now. Could you not just wait, or keep moving from location to location until you find one? I experienced this on Alderaan the other day doing a kilik heroic; I had to kill a certain amount of kiliks for one of the objectives and someone else was there. I had to move around to different spots where I knew the mobs would be. Took longer than I would have liked, but I got it done.

I did keep moving because I knew eventually I would find one but imagine if you are new to the game and have no idea where they spawn how frustrating that can be (everywhere you look - and the target circles for that mission in particular are huge - there is nothing). It's easy for us, the experienced players, to say what's the big deal because we either don't remember how it was to be new or have become so ingrained in our tiny little world we can't conceive of why someone would have an issue. The old time players are not the ones being negatively impacted. If you look at the posts about "crowded" instances, it is almost always a new face that posts the original post. The old timers then get involved and argue back and forth (which in itself is a negative for the new player) but the fact remains it is clearly troubling to at least some of the new player base and that is where the concern is. Old time players are here to stay and will work their way through just about anything (prior to the merge I had no trouble find groups to play content with and after the merge I will have no problem) but new players that become frustrated leave the game. Tie that with the attrition of old players that is normal for an MMO and you have a dying game not a resurgent one. That is why I think you cannot take these players concerns lightly.

I've said this before and I'll continue to say it until Bioware gets the idea.

1.) Open tap mobs.

2.) Higher respawn rate in high traffic areas- I bet anyone reading this can picture which ones I'm talking about in their mind's eye.

That alone would solve a lot of problems and make other players in an area seem more helpful than hindering.

It's ridiculous to expect people to group up to complete content that can easily and more pleasantly be completed solo.

You don't need to be BFFs with the other person waiting at the spawn point. Toss out an invite or accept theirs and be on your way faster. Why is that so hard?

You don't need to be BFFs with the other person waiting at the spawn point. Toss out an invite or accept theirs and be on your way faster. Why is that so hard?

It isn't, but you'd be surprised, I think, by how often the invite is declined or ignored.

It isn't, but you'd be surprised, I think, by how often the invite is declined or ignored.

I get that rarely. You get the d-bag that declines the invite and starts spamming AoEs. I've had that happen once in the last 4 or 5 months it's so rare. I decline invites when clearing trash mobs in an area but never at spawn points for bosses.

I get that rarely. You get the d-bag that declines the invite and starts spamming AoEs. I've had that happen once in the last 4 or 5 months it's so rare. I decline invites when clearing trash mobs in an area but never at spawn points for bosses.

Unfortunately my experiences differ and I just don't bother any more. Then again, I can't even get into the game so it's all pretty moot.

You don't need to be BFFs with the other person waiting at the spawn point. Toss out an invite or accept theirs and be on your way faster. Why is that so hard?

The main reason people don't group, which is actually counter-intuitive, is that it is faster to do most content solo as weird as that sounds. This game is now all about rushing through everything (xp/hr, CXP/hr, credits/hr). I don't know about your experience but my personal experience on group requests is about 80% no answer or decline. That is the fundamental flaw in the whole "just group up" idea. The best example is still Face Merchants on Coruscant. There can be 20 people standing around waiting for one spawn but they will not group. I assume a lot of them don't group because the plan on skipping the bonus anyway and doing the bonus would "just slow them down". There certainly is a middle ground to be had.

The main reason people don't group, which is actually counter-intuitive, is that it is faster to do most content solo as weird as that sounds. This game is now all about rushing through everything (xp/hr, CXP/hr, credits/hr). I don't know about your experience but my personal experience on group requests is about 80% no answer or decline. That is the fundamental flaw in the whole "just group up" idea. The best example is still Face Merchants on Coruscant. There can be 20 people standing around waiting for one spawn but they will not group. I assume a lot of them don't group because the plan on skipping the bonus anyway and doing the bonus would "just slow them down". There certainly is a middle ground to be had.

You've run across 20 morons then.

You've run across 20 morons then.

Sadly, you are correct. There seem to be a lot more of them now.