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Anyone else really miss standard Flashpoints?


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Just came back to the game after a long Hiatus (left before final SoR operation) and I find myself almost wanting to quit again due to the changes to how flash-points and other non-op content works.

 

So they added story more flashpoints, thats good, gives new players a chance to run the important flashpoints without people spamming SPACE BAR in the chat the entire time.

 

They added those tactical flashpoints before, which were a neat change of pace, I liked doing Kuat Drive Yards when that came out.

 

But now Im looking at the group finder and the only thing I can see is Role Neutral Content.

 

There is seriously no content pre-70 that has any role requirements? Did Bioware just decide that balancing these missions was too hard so they just made them all piss easy dps fests?

 

I leveled lots of toons just doing flashpoints, I spent hundreds of hours running new players through the early flashppoints and teaching them how to play there roles as intended.

 

I had no idea this wasnt even an MMO anymore, how are new players even supposed to learn how to play the game now? Does anyone even run OPS anymore? Am I wasting my time playing SWTOR as an MMO, im here to run OPS and other group content but if its 90% role neutral I dont see the point.

 

Im so incredibly disappointed in this change.

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Just came back to the game after a long Hiatus (left before final SoR operation) and I find myself almost wanting to quit again due to the changes to how flash-points and other non-op content works.

 

So they added story more flashpoints, thats good, gives new players a chance to run the important flashpoints without people spamming SPACE BAR in the chat the entire time.

 

They added those tactical flashpoints before, which were a neat change of pace, I liked doing Kuat Drive Yards when that came out.

 

But now Im looking at the group finder and the only thing I can see is Role Neutral Content.

 

There is seriously no content pre-70 that has any role requirements? Did Bioware just decide that balancing these missions was too hard so they just made them all piss easy dps fests?

 

I leveled lots of toons just doing flashpoints, I spent hundreds of hours running new players through the early flashppoints and teaching them how to play there roles as intended.

 

I had no idea this wasnt even an MMO anymore, how are new players even supposed to learn how to play the game now? Does anyone even run OPS anymore? Am I wasting my time playing SWTOR as an MMO, im here to run OPS and other group content but if its 90% role neutral I dont see the point.

 

Im so incredibly disappointed in this change.

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All ops (SM/VM/MM) and Master Mode flashpoints still require a "classic" role setup in the group. In some SM ops you can get away with just one tank as Story Mode doesn't really have many fights where 2 tanks are a must. You could also get away with just one healer if that healer is above average. Other than that, there is still plenty of content for a "classic" group.

 

The problem with having tank/heal/2 dps flashpoints on lower levels is that they will just never pop. The population isn't as big as before, and, more importantly, leveling is much quicker nowadays. Most people play at lvl70. Another thing is that a very small amount of people play heal/dps at all while leveling. Playing DPS is much more efficient. You would be waiting for a lvl15-19 Hammer station pop for over an hour, if it ever pops at all.

 

You might be happy to learn that developers are currently planning to scale all pre-75 content down to it's original levels in 6.0 expansion. So, when your group is inside, let's say, EV, all of you will be scaled down to lvl50 and so on.

Edited by Equeliber
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No need to post it twice in different forum sections :D

 

I guess I will copy my answer here as well.

 

All ops (SM/VM/MM), Master Mode flashpoints and Master Uprisings still require a "classic" role setup in the group. In some SM ops you can get away with just one tank as Story Mode doesn't really have many fights where 2 tanks are a must. You could also get away with just one healer if that healer is above average. Other than that, there is still plenty of content for a "classic" group.

 

The problem with having tank/heal/2 dps flashpoints on lower levels is that they will just never pop. The population isn't as big as before, and, more importantly, leveling is much quicker nowadays. Most people play at lvl70. Another thing is that a very small amount of people play heal/dps at all while leveling. Playing DPS is much more efficient. You would be waiting for a lvl15-19 Hammer station pop for over an hour, if it ever pops at all.

 

You might be happy to learn that developers are currently planning to scale all pre-75 content down to it's original levels in 6.0 expansion. So, when your group is inside, let's say, EV, all of you will be scaled down to lvl50 and so on.

Edited by Equeliber
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Yes, nobody does OPs anymore, and there are no groups forming at the fleet every 5 minutes every evening.

Yes, there is no such thing as MM FPs.

Yes, it's not worth returning, game is dead.

 

P.S. I understand that people are lazy and prefer to ask strange questions on forums instead of searching information on their own, but this is way too much apparently.

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Get to 70 ASAP (couple hours on naar-shadaa killing opposite side guards (pvp mode) during xp bonus).

Then u can start "classic" by rising hardness above normal, for FP it is master mode. However ...252+ geared tank can solo "old" MMs which were designed for levels prior 50 and some 50s as well, for example I could solo false emperor on illum (no bonus boss though).

Edited by alexzk
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You might be happy to learn that developers are currently planning to scale all pre-75 content down to it's original levels in 6.0 expansion. So, when your group is inside, let's say, EV, all of you will be scaled down to lvl50 and so on.

 

Don't get your hopes up there. I've been playing around on the pts and the level scaling has so far made the vet flashpoints even easier than they are on live.

 

Think of level syncing on the planets. A level 70 on coruscant has their endurance/mastery/power capped but everything else remains the same.

 

If you want actual role-specific flashpoints you have to do master mode. Best to find a large guild or some friends to run them with, since pugging is a hit or miss, and players don't learn any strategies in vet mode flashpoints anymore (for example: dps love to pull the boss, makes tanking and healing pug flashpoints a pita)

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There is seriously no content pre-70 that has any role requirements? Did Bioware just decide that balancing these missions was too hard so they just made them all piss easy dps fests?

 

There are seriously master mode flashpoints and story mode operations that have role requirements and unlock in your group finder once you hit level 50. BioWare decided to make all the veteran flashpoints role neutral as to decrease the waiting times before a queue group pops for them. They are supposed to be quick leveling runs without the need for a coordinated group.

 

I leveled lots of toons just doing flashpoints, I spent hundreds of hours running new players through the early flashppoints and teaching them how to play there roles as intended.

 

You can still do that with veteran flashpoints if you intend to do so. There is no one stopping you from creating a balanced low level group yourself and run them.

 

I had no idea this wasnt even an MMO anymore, how are new players even supposed to learn how to play the game now? Does anyone even run OPS anymore? Am I wasting my time playing SWTOR as an MMO, im here to run OPS and other group content but if its 90% role neutral I dont see the point.

 

Im so incredibly disappointed in this change.

 

You had no idea, you don't see the point and you are incredibly disappointed because the things you complain about are very trivial and SWTOR remains an MMO even with the change of how veteran mode flashpoints work before lvl 50, because endgame content has rightfully been placed where it belongs, to the end. And you seem to underestimate the fact that there are quite a lot of players in SWTOR who don't like/want to do any group content at all.

Edited by Phazonfreak
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Get to 70 ASAP (couple hours on naar-shadaa killing opposite side guards (pvp mode) during xp bonus).

Then u can start "classic" by rising hardness above normal, for FP it is master mode. However ...252+ geared tank can solo "old" MMs which were designed for levels prior 50 and some 50s as well, for example I could solo false emperor on illum (no bonus boss though).

 

Actually, that's been nerfed.

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This game does not have a group content problem.

 

Grouped gameplay became the norm last December with the release of Ossus, which features a World Boss weekly which gifts ONE masterwork crystal for defeating TWO bosses. That is in addition to the timed weekly mission which also requires grouped play in the form of operations, flashpoints and pvp.

 

The term 'group content" was spammed regularly prior 5.0 - which gave us the 4-person "Uprisings" which no one plays (see also the predecessor Star Fortresses). I do not need to see the term again.

Edited by jimmorrisson
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Just came back to the game after a long Hiatus (left before final SoR operation) and I find myself almost wanting to quit again due to the changes to how flash-points and other non-op content works.

 

So they added story more flashpoints, thats good, gives new players a chance to run the important flashpoints without people spamming SPACE BAR in the chat the entire time.

 

They added those tactical flashpoints before, which were a neat change of pace, I liked doing Kuat Drive Yards when that came out.

 

But now Im looking at the group finder and the only thing I can see is Role Neutral Content.

 

There is seriously no content pre-70 that has any role requirements? Did Bioware just decide that balancing these missions was too hard so they just made them all piss easy dps fests?

 

I leveled lots of toons just doing flashpoints, I spent hundreds of hours running new players through the early flashppoints and teaching them how to play there roles as intended.

 

I had no idea this wasnt even an MMO anymore, how are new players even supposed to learn how to play the game now? Does anyone even run OPS anymore? Am I wasting my time playing SWTOR as an MMO, im here to run OPS and other group content but if its 90% role neutral I dont see the point.

 

Im so incredibly disappointed in this change.

 

Flashpoints before 5.0 took forever to get a group together by roles. without the role requirements it is much faster to get groups together. also because these flashpoints are generally easier now than before the level sync stuff, all that role stuff isn't needed any more.

 

I'm not sure what your issue is, because flashpoints aren't much different from before, and it isn't like DPS will always dominate a round, sometimes you might get a tank or a healer ini the group and dps groups can clear through mobs like a hot knife through butter or homer simpson through an all you can eat buffet.

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But now Im looking at the group finder and the only thing I can see is Role Neutral Content.

Perhaps you are too low a level to be offered any higher level FPs and OPs in GF. (I recently took a new alt through the story and only Veteran Mode showed up until I was a high enough level - but I don't know exactly what level that was.)

Only Solo and Veteran mode FPs are role neutral. I can assure you that GF also has Master Mode flashpoints that require a classic trinity - 2 DPS, 1 Healer, 1 Tank - (and possibly specific gear levels).

I'm not sure, because I haven't done any OPs in a long time, but I think OPs (at least at higher levels) also uses the "trinity" but perhaps 4 DPS, 2 Healers, and 2 Tanks. (8-player, even more for 16-player)

(I'm sure Steve will correct me where I'm wrong. :) )

Edited by JediQuaker
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how are new players even supposed to learn how to play the game now?

Role neutral flashpoints are no joke if most of the group is low level and you get the wrong ones. A skilled level 70 can carry lowbies to a point, but it will take some extra effort.

 

It sounds like maybe you jumped into a clean, speed run and took that to be the norm. They are not all that smooth.

 

On the other hand, if you haven't even tried queuing up for one yet, then I don't know why you're coming here to say it's bad first. Any run without a healer, unless you've got 4 mad DPS level 70s, is going to require some awareness, use of CCs, cooldowns, etc., to avoid deaths, along with smart use of kolto in boss fights. It may not be great prep for trinity, but it'll wake you up if you're used to having a companion healer keeping you alive through everything.

 

So if anything, I'd say it's a good shock to the system for people who are coasting through the game with a healer companion. I've personally observed people who seem newer and don't even seem to know how to use their out of combat heal, or have to be prompted about it first before they'll think to use it. A healer on hand would potentially shield them from that. Some healers will top people off in-between fights.

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