Counting blue and green scrap tokens and CM Certs as having no value, and vendoring the rep tokens, I am getting the purple Java Junk for 1350-1600 credits each. So conservatively, my grade 11 purple mats are costing me 1500 (Midlithe Crystals) to 4500 credits (Adaptive Circuitry) each.

 

Perhaps for slicing, crew missions are competitive - you'd need to average a crit every 3 or 4 missions for that to be the case. But for Treasure Hunting and Diplomacy, the Slots are cheaper.

 

You misunderstood... The poster you replied to said "gathering remains the most cost effective way to gain mats"

 

Gathering, as in picking them up for free as you're playing the game walking around the world...

 

If you just play the game and take the time to pickup mats, that is free money just left on the ground...

The fix you need to make is simple, take grade 11 mats off of the jawa vendors.

 

The problem with that is then all the Jawa scrap from the cartel packs becomes largely worthless... well, for anything other than conquests mind you... which for most people, means worthless... (or perhaps you can sell mats on the GTN I suppose)

 

It also would make the slot machine nearly worthless.

 

Why people think there needs to be a "fix" is beyond me, prices were high, lower prices brings better gear to more of the player population allowing them to play more of the game.

 

The only people this is a "bad thing" for are the heavy duty crafters who were making millions and millions of credits.

The only people this is a "bad thing" for are the heavy duty crafters who were making millions and millions of credits.

 

Not only the crafters but the fact they put certs and rep into the game that you can now obtain with no effort whatsoever, spending close to no credits whatsoever as well. Certs & Rep items were exclusive to packs only for 2 years, but now that's gone so lot of people are not going to purchase anymore packs with CCs from now on, because they were mostly buying it for CM specific items only.

I remember being reviled and hunted in games, being put in "game jail", losing money, my possessions and XP when I was killed, having someone kill me and then LOOT me. I remember the days when you had to be aware of your surroundings....anything could happen.

 

It was like the real word in a way. You felt...on edge. And everything you had you worked VERY HARD for.

 

I fought for a long time against the tide, but eventually I took the "if you can't beat em, join em" approach and embraced casual play.

 

Yea, I remember those days as well... It is very tempting to say, "aww, the good 'ol days"... except, they weren't so good... Hours and hours of your life grinding away and someone could take it all from you...

 

It sucked, and it shouldn't return... the numbers speak for themselves... UO still exists... EVE Online exists, there is a market for that...

 

It is a SMALL market compared to the casual player who has no interest in it...

 

The market who wants it easier and with no risk is LARGE by comparison... If you want that old game, SWTOR isn't it.

I do think that the machine trumps crew missions.

 

I also think that some of the claims with respect to the machine are overblown for dramatic effect.

 

I do not think some of the results posted are typical. And I DO think Bioware does have the numbers and will judge accordingly.

 

It only trumps crew missions when going specifically for purple mats.

 

For green or even blue mats, crew missions is still way more effective (both time and cost).

 

Unless you only have one single character with crew skills...

 

Most crafting requires 2-3 times (at least) the number of greens and blues to the number of purples to craft.

And since you get roughly the same number of greens and blues as you get purples from the machine, you'll constantly be behind on greens and blues.

 

So unless you're just gunning for purples (presumably to sell), then no, it's not more effective.

Not only the crafters but the fact they put certs and rep into the game that you can now obtain with no effort whatsoever, spending close to no credits whatsoever as well. Certs & Rep items were exclusive to packs only for 2 years, but now that's gone so lot of people are not going to purchase anymore packs with CCs from now on, because they were mostly buying it for CM specific items only.

 

why is this bad for the rest of the game? you can get rep for the oldest packs out there..thats a loooong time to wait for a slot machine to come out.

It only trumps crew missions when going specifically for purple mats.

 

For green or even blue mats, crew missions is still way more effective (both time and cost).

 

Unless you only have one single character with crew skills...

 

Most crafting requires 2-3 times (at least) the number of greens and blues to the number of purples to craft.

And since you get roughly the same number of greens and blues as you get purples from the machine, you'll constantly be behind on greens and blues.

 

So unless you're just gunning for purples (presumably to sell), then no, it's not more effective.

 

Your math is fail.

 

1) Few schematics require more blues than purples. Due to missions ran for purples returning way more blues than are needed for crafting the purple items, most [top grade, at least] blues can be obtained from the GTN more cheaply than actually running a mission with the intent to receive a blue. [Other than pre-3.0 Diplomacy, but that was because most BioChem blues were BiS over the purples.]

 

2) Greens can be gathered for free, and prior to the patch most were already selling below the mission cost. In the current "new economy", you can still get enough greens cheaply enough that the greens jawa stuff can make up the difference.

 

Running green missions *will* pad your margins, but they are not currently essential to run to be profitable. They weren't before, but doing so made enough difference to make it worthwhile. I'm not going waste time switching characters for that small of a profit.

Edited January 20, 2015 by eartharioch

the market isnt stable because people had a LOT of jawa junk from conquest and cartel packs to use up. they need to give it a month to shake out. the mat barons are crying because their cash cow isnt making as much milk as they wanted it to.

 

^ This...

 

I suspect a lot of people had whole cargo bays fulled with Jawa junk/scraps/etc. from the CM packs over the past year...

 

It will take more than 1 week to sort that out... I know I saved about 30 full stacks worth for the Grade 11 mats, it was only a matter of time...

Greens can be gathered for free, and prior to the patch most were already selling below the mission cost.

What reality do you inhabit?

What reality do you inhabit?

 

The Bastion -- and just so we're clear, I'm discussing Grade 11s, since that is the market that was disrupted.

Edited January 20, 2015 by eartharioch

why is this bad for the rest of the game? you can get rep for the oldest packs out there..thats a loooong time to wait for a slot machine to come out.

 

^ This...

 

If you are a rep grinder (a lot of people aren't), then you either make the choice to wait 1 to 2 years for a new slot machine to come out, or you go ahead and buy packs to grind rep. Or you buy packs off the GTN and grind it that way.

 

This new pack is the first one that I've bought with CC in a long time, I had been waiting for the price to get cheap on the GTN and I bought those. Of course, they were still a sale to Bioware, so the CC was paid by someone.

 

This time, that someone was me.

General prices are going down. This is good, sometimes the prices of crafting are nonesense. By the other hand I think this is a way to push players to buy more CC and packs. Personally I have no problem with that if gear, mounts and the most things you can find in those packs are just vanity objects.

General prices are going down. This is good, sometimes the prices of crafting are nonesense. By the other hand I think this is a way to push players to buy more CC and packs. Personally I have no problem with that if gear, mounts and the most things you can find in those packs are just vanity objects.

 

Yes, yes, yes, why?

Why would you buy more cc? Slot machine is 3 millions on GTN, even on my overpriced server.

I bought one, and a good soul put one on the guild ship (I am in one of the biggest guilds on my server)

Just cooperate with your guildmates and put one on the ship.

Yea, the one I bought cost 3 mil. It was worth it IMO.

 

Something fun to do while I craft.

Yea, the one I bought cost 3 mil. It was worth it IMO.

Something fun to do while I craft.

 

Between me, my wife, and a friend, we acquired six machines, currently allocated as follows:

• Three-machine cluster in a stronghold that all three of us can access at any time,
  
• Single machine at one of my wife's strongholds,
  
• Single machine on the Flagship of the Imp guild we are in, and
  
• Single machine on the Flagship of the Pub guild we are in.
  

 

The three machine cluster is for serious grinding. The token vendor is within easy reach.

The other machines are for more casual use, like while waiting for an op or Q-pop.

We might get more :I think a four-machine cluster is optimal, and having more on the Flagships would be nice.

Edited January 20, 2015 by BuriDogshin

Anyone that says these new slots are not the best way for anyone to get mats either never used one or are in denial lol. Just look at what happened to the cost of the grade 11 advanced mats. If one new mechanic can lower the price of Midlithe Crystals from 40-45k to 6k in a few hours, there should really be no need for discussion on this subject. Is this a good or bad thing as far as the long run? That is yet to be seen. However in the short run I think this was a huge mistake. If they wanted the market adjusted as far as either price or demand of mats (and crafted items), they should do it over a period of time not in a few hours. Another thing I do not like about this is any lvl 1-9 (new players not alts) that have access to a guild ship or a guild members SH can now get and sell any grade 11 material.The lvl 10 and up players could in theory have their own SH with slots via Cartel Coins. So my thought is why have gathering skill levels at all any more. There is no longer any reason to spam low level runs on alts to access these materials. Just drop gathering all together and have 3 crafting skills (which I will do after a few months if nothing changes). I just feel that these slots changed way to much way to fast. In closing I feel that the cost of grade 11 mats and 186 crafted mods and gear are low right now, this could be adjusted easily either buy raising the cost of the chips, lowering the amount of jawa mat drops or raising the ratio of jawa mats to crafting mats received. But this is just an opinion I know alot of people that are happy with the new cost and alot that are very upset. Just my thoughts .

Anyone that says these new slots are not the best way for anyone to get mats either never used one or are in denial lol. Just look at what happened to the cost of the grade 11 advanced mats. If one new mechanic can lower the price of Midlithe Crystals from 40-45k to 6k in a few hours, there should really be no need for discussion on this subject.

 

Are you so sure?

 

The grade 11 mats were put on the Jawa vendors at the same time as the slot machine came out. Yet lots of people had stacks of Jawa materials from the CM packs stored up waiting for this to happen.

 

Are the low prices due to the slot machine, or due to a stockpile of materials?

 

That strikes me as worthy of discussion, even if you don't.

Anyone that says these new slots are not the best way for anyone to get mats either never used one or are in denial lol.

 

"to get mats".

 

You should probably specify that a bit more.

 

It certainly isn't the best way to get green mats.

Or even blue mats for that matter.

 

Purple, sure.

 

But green mats are still most easily gotten by manually gathering and sending crews on missions.

Blues are a tie, since you can easily get more if you have multiple characters, but it all depends on how many characters you have with the correct crewskill.

 

Of course, if you only have one single character at all, then the slot machine is better due to the simple fact that you can't send more than 6 companions out at the same time and that limits your max number of mats per hour.

 

But it certainly isn't the best way for everyone to get all kinds of mats.

Edited January 20, 2015 by OddballEasyEight

The more i think about this addition to stronghold in general the more i see how brilliant idea it was for Bioware to add credit sink. The more players use this slot machine the more credits will be gone from game. Sure you get something back in process but it is credit sink after all. The other aspect are rewards gained from this process. If you sell mats or use them in crafting and sell, then this doesnt generate credits but you take from other players.

 

They probably can change few winning percentage on some items but not much since if players see the outcome is not profitable, it will loose its purpose as credit remover from game.

The more i think about this addition to stronghold in general the more i see how brilliant idea it was for Bioware to add credit sink. The more players use this slot machine the more credits will be gone from game. Sure you get something back in process but it is credit sink after all. The other aspect are rewards gained from this process. If you sell mats or use them in crafting and sell, then this doesnt generate credits but you take from other players.

 

They probably can change few winning percentage on some items but not much since if players see the outcome is not profitable, it will loose its purpose as credit remover from game.

 

Even if this machines had no crafting rewards, players would still use them. The CM Reputation is reward enough for players to use them. This could be a credit sink without destroying crew missions.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Neglience

Let's see,

For 50k, you get a 100 tokens. I tried the machine yesterday for the first time and I think I got around 60 jawa junk for 400 tokens. So that means 15 jawa junk for 100 tokens, so for 50K. 15 jawa junk is 7 midlithe crystal.

So 7 midlith crystal cost around 50k. On my server, before this change, midlithe crystal were between 70k and 90k for 1.

So you are partially right, the main problem comes from the stockpiles. But the problem on the machine is quite real too.

With my example, you get a value of around 7k for a midlithe crystal if you don't gain any money. That's without counting blues and greens.

 

I'm pretty sure we're gonna have a flood of mats that we won't be able to use. Supply will swamp demand and the economy will be shot.

 

Well good thing is everyone will have 186 gear now, there is no excuse any more.

Edited January 20, 2015 by shinkabuto

I've been itching to become more active in these Forums since I returned to SWTOR this past May (after a 2 year hiatus), but just haven't found the time because of my hectic schedule from all the daily drudgery of real-life issues. Even still, I've (thankfully) been investing plenty of time into the game itself (currently a Level 47 Bounty Hunter / Merc) and naturally felt compelled to chime-in regarding this whole 'Contraband Slot Machine' ordeal.

 

Anyhow, I must first tip-off my hat to the GENIUS minds at Bioware for creating the definitive interactive Star Wars experience. Considering the overall massive scope of this game, the sheer amount of content within, and the meticulous attention to even the smallest of details - SWTOR is (in my opinion) as close to "perfect" as a title can be. Seriously, there's very little I have to complain about, and even the relatively minor shortcomings can be over-looked because this MMO is "JUST THAT GOOD".

 

With that being said, my overall thoughts on this current 'Slot Machine' topic are as follows. First off, these devs clearly read my mind by implementing some form of "usable" Slot Machine into the Strongholds for players to enjoy. Since the Nar Shaddaa "Nightlife Event" only comes around a few times a year at best (instead of once a month like the 'Bounty Contract Week'), it provides access to "another" FUN activity at your Sky Palace / Homestead, and is DEFINITELY a welcomed addition.

 

While I certainly understand the slight controversy as to how this 'Slot Machine' could (and probably will) affect various aspects of this game, I'm just thankful it adds another ENTERTAINING layer to the grand scheme of things... plain and simple. Now, perhaps I'm feeling a bit biased because I somehow managed to score one of these 'Contraband Slot Machines' on the first Acolyte Pack I opened, instead of buying a Hypercrate or dropping millions of in-game credits (which I don't have) for one on GTN.

 

That's the thing however, individuals must somehow either acquire these Slot Machines with some effort involved - or otherwise, find some random Stronghold to play them on. Not to mention, these Cartel Chips still cost a whopping "500 Credits" a pop... not exactly cheap if your character's a lower level or their bank-roll is already dwindling from other expenses. Furthermore, the in-game rewards from playing these slots are still kept to a minimum - which in essence, is only a small fraction of the overall breadth of content included in SWTOR or found in Cartel Packs.

 

Granted, I've already seen a slight change in prices for certain items on GTN - but overall, everything has a tendency to balance itself out in different ways. Besides, now the excessive grinding in certain areas will be less daunting and more accessible to people - not to mention, more affordable for gamers who have limited time to play.

 

While I can understand why many sellers on GTN might be slightly perturbed at the change in their overall profits, they'll probably still benefit by purchasing other (random) items for a lesser amount. Plus, this should probably cut-down a bit on the greedy price gouging many of these jokers enjoy reveling in. Seriously, I often-times shake my head in disgust at what many of these people charge for certain content - while it's doubtful they even need the few extra credits to begin with.

 

All in all, this recent addition to SWTOR will hopefully be embraced by most of the Community, even if the minority of folks will continue to shun Bioware for providing another fun outlet to partake-in. Furthermore (because of the influx of whiners), the devs will most likely tweek these "in-game" slot rewards to some degree. Either way, I'm just grateful I have another interactive item to whittle away my precious time with on my Stronghold(s).

 

Bottom line, the Community will likely adapt to the necessary changes and everything will find a way to balance itself out. In my humble opinion, Cartel Packs and Hypercrates will still remain sought-after items in the Cartel Market and GTN. Again, it's such a small piece of the SWTOR pie, and will hardly interfere with the enjoyment most people extract from this AWESOME game.

Let's see,

For 50k, you get a 100 tokens. I tried the machine yesterday for the first time and I think I got around 60 jawa junk for 400 tokens. So that means 15 jawa junk for 100 tokens, so for 50K. 15 jawa junk is 7 midlithe crystal.

So 7 midlith crystal cost around 50k. On my server, before this change, midlithe crystal were between 70k and 90k for 1.

So you are partially right, the main problem comes from the stockpiles. But the problem on the machine is quite real too.

With my example, you get a value of around 7k for a midlithe crystal if you don't gain any money. That's without counting blues and greens.

 

I'm pretty sure we're gonna have a flood of mats that we won't be able to use. Supply will swamp demand and the economy will be shot.

 

Well good thing is everyone will have 186 gear now, there is no excuse any more.

 

Like I've explained to so many before, this is operating under the assumption that everyone has a slot machine and everyone is running them all the time.

Not only that, but it also assumes that they will never switch materials they sell.

 

But they will.

So when the market goes down for one material, most people who use the slot machine explicitly for this purpose will switch to another material that has a higher price.

Thus the supply of the first material will dwindle again, and drive up prices again.

And so it will continue until an equilibrium is found and prices stabilise on all mats.

Well... as stable as they get anyway.

 

People seem to think this machine is some sort of money print. It's not.

You still have to play the market and the market adapts and changes with the ebb and flow of merchandise.

Like I've explained to so many before, this is operating under the assumption that everyone has a slot machine and everyone is running them all the time.

Not only that, but it also assumes that they will never switch materials they sell.

 

But they will.

So when the market goes down for one material, most people who use the slot machine explicitly for this purpose will switch to another material that has a higher price.

Thus the supply of the first material will dwindle again, and drive up prices again.

And so it will continue until an equilibrium is found and prices stabilise on all mats.

Well... as stable as they get anyway.

 

People seem to think this machine is some sort of money print. It's not.

You still have to play the market and the market adapts and changes with the ebb and flow of merchandise.

 

And what if the slot machines can generate enough mats to oversaturate all mats with value at once ? as far as i can tell everything on my servers which had a value before is going down. not just one mat.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Neglience

Like I've explained to so many before, this is operating under the assumption that everyone has a slot machine and everyone is running them all the time.

Not only that, but it also assumes that they will never switch materials they sell.

 

But they will.

So when the market goes down for one material, most people who use the slot machine explicitly for this purpose will switch to another material that has a higher price.

Thus the supply of the first material will dwindle again, and drive up prices again.

And so it will continue until an equilibrium is found and prices stabilise on all mats.

Well... as stable as they get anyway.

 

People seem to think this machine is some sort of money print. It's not.

You still have to play the market and the market adapts and changes with the ebb and flow of merchandise.

 

Well for now I didn't want to spend the time to analyze every violet mat from the GTN. But the midlithe went from 70k to 8k in 24 hours.

 

I wonder what it's gonna be when I come back later today. The main problem is that it is still profitable to sell these midlithe crystal for 7k with the slot machine. That's quite a drop compared to before. They became too easy to get. I'll try to buy 500 chips today and calculate exactly how much jawa junk I make and what it costs me after vendoring the rep items. That's enough sample size to be more or less correct. Would be better with something like 10k chips but well I don't have that money to burn and more importantly I don't have the time to put 10k chips in a slot machine.

 

Also, I don't have the slot machine, I'm using one in a public stronghold.

 

And to those who say it is a good thing that those *rare* mats are now available to those prices. I know CZ-198 gives 36k creds for the dailies. So with 1 day of 1 daily you can get 5 midlithe crystal (5*7k creds). With that you can get 2 enhancements, or a relic or 2 saber hilts. So I guess with a week of farming cz you would have everything you need from artifice. That's one daily, once per day. It takes around 20 minutes max to do it.

 

Isn't there a point where things are too easy? It is really easy to make money with dailies now, so it means that epic mats have almost no value anymore. I know I can make a few hundreds k without really trying, doing dailies and farming a bit around yavin for mats. I don't even blink when I buy a mount for a few hundred k in the GTN (acrid chemlizard for example lately). So well, 7k for rare mats is ridculous.

Edited January 20, 2015 by shinkabuto