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Make Recruit Gear a Requirement to Queue


NDiggy

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I know how annoying this is, but don't forget that new 50's usually don't have the money to buy skills+mount+recruit gear when they ding, or might be unwilling to spend money on either one of those.

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That's really no excuse since you can get recruit gear from Outlaw's Den, There is even a PvP quest that sends you there.

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They could either not have the money or they do have the recruit gear and you just don't realize how low the HP is for it. Recruit gear is pretty useless. I constantly see people complain about 12-13k HP but that's full recruit gear HP.

 

If you have recruit gear, I will beat you 1v1. But it'll be a fight and you'll actually do some damage to me in the process.

 

If you have full rakata and 22k+ health and no expertise, I will faceroll you and you won't even scratch me.

 

I wouldn't suggest that recruit gear is required, but some form of gear combo (including the old champion, etc.) that adds up to 600+ expertise would at least bring people into the "viable" range, though they will still get beaten badly if caught by themselves.

 

300k might seem like a lot to those who have scrimped their way to 50 and just bought a pile of skills, but it isn't much to ask someone to do a WHOLE SINGLE DAY worth of daily quests to afford it. If we said TWO WHOLE DAYS of daily quests, then gosh, that would be asking too much.

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I'm sick of hearing about what people consider an "excuse." Like I said earlier, I progressed up the tiers of gear getting recruit and then BM in the process. I'm decent at PvP. But I do WZs. In fact, and you people that wanna flame me for what I'm about to say can save it for someone who gives a crap, but I have never been to, done, or even heard of Outlaw's Den until I started going into the PvP forums. Yet, I'm still BM'ed.

 

So maybe people new to PvP'ing in SWTOR and just starting out don't have enough information to start with to know which questions to ask to get that sort of knowledge.

 

You people really need to stop being all high and mighty and just get over yourselves. In case you haven't noticed, no one this thread applies to is apologizing to the great and powerful you(s) for not being your version of competent, skilled, or otherwise awesome at PvP. Seriously, get over yourselves.

 

People are not stupid, selfish, incompetent, or anything else you've deemed them to be just because for whatever reason they don't have recruit gear. They're just people, same as you, and TBH I'm shocked that you've QQ'd about it this long. Just get over yourselves.

Edited by -Requiem-
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I'm sick of hearing about what people consider an "excuse." Like I said earlier, I progressed up the tiers of gear getting recruit and then BM in the process. I'm decent at PvP. But I do WZs. In fact, and you people that wanna flame me for what I'm about to say can save it for someone who gives a crap, but I have never been to, done, or even heard of Outlaw's Den until I started going into the PvP forums. Yet, I'm still BM'ed.

 

So maybe people new to PvP'ing in SWTOR and just starting out don't have enough information to start with to know which questions to ask to get that sort of knowledge.

 

You people really need to stop being all high and mighty and just get over yourselves. In case you haven't noticed, no one this thread applies to is apologizing to the great and powerful you(s) for not being your version of competent, skilled, or otherwise awesome at PvP. Seriously, get over yourselves.

 

People are not stupid, selfish, incompetent, or anything else you've deemed them to be just because for whatever reason they don't have recruit gear. They're just people, same as you, and TBH I'm shocked that you've QQ'd about it this long. Just get over yourselves.

 

Yes they are. Every person I've met in WZs that are in crappy leveling greens and blues that I've told to buy recruit gear just tell me they're too cheap to buy it because "it will get replaced by BM in a bit". Hella selfish. They don't even have to buy the entire set. They can buy recruit pieces for all the slots they intend to replace last with BM gear. BM priority should be weapons and then 4 main armor pieces for set bonus.

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The fact in the end is this: You can PvP 10-49 with 0 expertise, but you get 1 experience point, dinging you to 50 and everyone expects you to have 500+ expertise. Put expertise on the lvl 20 and lvl 40 gear so people who PvP while they level (like me) know ahead of time that its a stat for PvP. Until I read this thread I didn't know jack about recruit gear, or that it existed. Don't get mad I'm not 50 yet, but to know that my currently favorite part of the game changes dramatically in a mere matter of seconds. Hell it could change by finishing a warzone!

 

Don't get me wrong I understand why you think someone should have gear, but at the same time no they shouldn't. I shouldn't have to nerf my primary stats to play a warzone, in fact - the idea should be to BUFF your primary stat for any type of game play (whether it be PvE or PvP). Yes I should be slightly gimped if I pvp in pve gear or vice versa, but I shouldn't be insta-gibbed in the best PVE gear there is when playing PVP or vice versa that's just absurd. What's going to happen when I hit 50? I'll choose whether to focus on PVP or PVE because they are two completely different sets of gear and one is useless for the other.

 

But what you all are saying is that you want me to spend either creds or time (or a combination thereof) to buy gear that apparently will only get used for a day or two? Seems like an utter waste to me. I'll stick with the gear I can get by 50 and that's it. I won't be spending my time and money on something that might not even last a day, what a waste. Call me selfish I don't give a F*** but I think yall are selfish if you think someone else should do something to appease you. In fact let's look at the definition: concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure. So you want other's to get gear to make you happy? If its not something they want to do, then guess what? YOU'RE THE SELFISH A*****E!

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Don't get me wrong I understand why you think someone should have gear, but at the same time no they shouldn't. I shouldn't have to nerf my primary stats to play a warzone, in fact - the idea should be to BUFF your primary stat for any type of game play (whether it be PvE or PvP). Yes I should be slightly gimped if I pvp in pve gear or vice versa, but I shouldn't be insta-gibbed in the best PVE gear there is when playing PVP or vice versa that's just absurd. What's going to happen when I hit 50? I'll choose whether to focus on PVP or PVE because they are two completely different sets of gear and one is useless for the other.

 

But what you all are saying is that you want me to spend either creds or time (or a combination thereof) to buy gear that apparently will only get used for a day or two? Seems like an utter waste to me. I'll stick with the gear I can get by 50 and that's it. I won't be spending my time and money on something that might not even last a day,

what a waste. Call me selfish I don't give a F*** but I think yall are selfish if you think someone else should do something to appease you. In fact let's look at the definition: concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure. So you want other's to get gear to make you happy? If its not something they want to do, then guess what? YOU'RE THE SELFISH A*****E!

 

Ever heard of keeping a PvP set and a PvE set?

You take of your PvE gear put it in either your bag or cargo hold then PvP...

Once you are done you switch your gear for PvE content.

 

Your stats shouldn't get buffed because if it were so I could go clear EV & KP and get a full set of rakata, then go stomp on people in PvP. I stomp on people in PvP without having done any PvP. Same goes vice versa, I can PvP and get full BM, Buffing my stats, Then I can go down the new raid on HM without have done any raids..

 

See the problem?

 

How hard is it to keep 2 different sets of gear?

 

It's gonna last longer than a day. It takes a few hours to get enough commendations in order to get a BM piece. But buying ONE BM piece won't make all the recruit gear go away..

 

The fact is that Recruit gear is rated 124, That's higher rated than the gear you get from 48-50 quests. You'd have to do dailies in order to get better gear.. But wait, Doing dailies is a waste of your precious time, but on the bright side dailies gear doesn't include expertise, so you can make life harder for your team mates.

 

You are still the selfish one because you refuse to spend some time in order to get gear designed for PvP play and in the process making it harder for your team to win.

 

Q: I don't like to get nerfed in primary stats..

A: Use two different sets of gear, one for PvP play the other for PvE.

 

Q: I don't have the money..

A: Either go do some dailies or got o outlaw's den and loot the chests.

 

Q: I cba with to buy teh gear, I can just play WZ's and get BM gear.

A: Your chances of winning are very slim and with BW's system you'll get much less WZ commendations for loosing than winning. So getting full BM in a week won't work. Youa re better off buying recruit gear and maximizing your chances of winning, getting more comms, getting BM gear faster.

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Ever heard of keeping a PvP set and a PvE set?

Since you missed the entire point of my post I'll just respond to your first sentence. I have heard of keeping both and I will have both eventually, however I have never heard of gear you PVP to get being useless for PVP and that was my point. If I can't use the gear I PVP'd for to pvp then *** is the point of it?

Edited by Derokorian
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recruit gear sucks

 

doesnt matter if you are in full greens or recruit gear you are still bringing the team down and are a wasted space...so you last 1 GCD longer being full recruit with 13k hps ,who cares you still die in just a few seconds compared to people in full BM..

 

honestly doesnt even mater if you buy it once you enter the warzone you probly lost just because of it.

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99% of the people in the forums have absolutely NO idea of what they're talking about

 

It does not take over 12,000 hitpoints to cap and/or interrupt an objective in voidstar or novare coast or to pass the huttball or to interrupt a node being capped in civil war

 

One or two people who are undergeared will not ruin the warzone if you AND the undergeared player know how to do the objectives, we're not playing call of duty, it's not team deathmatch. Learn to play and stop whining.

 

http://www.youtube.com/xkunxentertainment

http://www.youtube.com/kungaming

 

Braaxus Kun

<DJO>

Edited by BraaxusKun
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Since you missed the entire point of my post I'll just respond to your first sentence. I have heard of keeping both and I will have both eventually, however I have never heard of gear you PVP to get being useless for PVP and that was my point. If I can't use the gear I PVP'd for to pvp then *** is the point of it?

 

Of course you are supposed to use BM gear when you get it, But to get it faster and to make life easier for your team mates you should wear recruit gear. It gives you a boost in PvP combat, Healing, DMG reduction and damage done compared to if you had nothing.

recruit gear sucks

 

doesnt matter if you are in full greens or recruit gear you are still bringing the team down and are a wasted space...so you last 1 GCD longer being full recruit with 13k hps ,who cares you still die in just a few seconds compared to people in full BM..

 

honestly doesnt even mater if you buy it once you enter the warzone you probly lost just because of it.

 

Hp =/= Being helpful in PvP

Expertise = Being helpful in PvP

 

It Boosts damage done, Reduces damage taken and healing received.. It's better to have 10% DMG Reduced, Done, healing received and 13k HP than to have 0% Healing received, Damage reduction or boost in PvP and have 15k HP..

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I definitely think they should make a mandatory minimum on expertise to join a level 50 warzone. Something like 600.

 

Yeah cause that's what the game needs, something that actually makes queues even longer.

 

There's selfishness on both sides.

 

Wanting someone to invest their time and resources to help you win a WZ = Selfish.

 

Participating in a team event without tools = Selfish.

 

But at the end of the day it is a cost/benefit analysis, is it worth 350k for gear you're only going to wear for 3-5 days, and ONLY in pvp, that is only going to make a SLIGHT difference in your performance?

 

I can't fault the people who say "no". Heck I was kind of one of them, although to be fair I hit 50 with enough comms to get WH earpiece, and BM chest. But the only recruit gear I bought was relics and wrist/belt. Sorry just couldn't justify spending 30k on a LS that REDUCED my damage 49 pts per swing, while also lowered my STR and END, that I was going to use for realistically 10-15 matches total before I traded it in.

 

You want Recruit gear to be required, make it suck less, or cost less.

Edited by criminalheretic
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If you don't want to pay the money for gear you'll only use for a week, then don't join the warzones.

 

I'd rather wait longer, then get a 10 minute discount only to be surrounded by badly undergeared, ineffective teammates.

 

I'll never hear the tears of cost in this game either, you can spend 2 hours soloing dailies and clear 150-200k if you do it right. People just don't want to earn money in the game. Lazy, lazy, lazy.

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Yeah cause that's what the game needs, something that actually makes queues even longer.

 

There's selfishness on both sides.

 

Wanting someone to invest their time and resources to help you win a WZ = Selfish.

 

Participating in a team event without tools = Selfish.

 

But at the end of the day it is a cost/benefit analysis, is it worth 350k for gear you're only going to wear for 3-5 days, and ONLY in pvp, that is only going to make a SLIGHT difference in your performance?

 

I can't fault the people who say "no". Heck I was kind of one of them, although to be fair I hit 50 with enough comms to get WH earpiece, and BM chest. But the only recruit gear I bought was relics and wrist/belt. Sorry just couldn't justify spending 30k on a LS that REDUCED my damage 49 pts per swing, while also lowered my STR and END, that I was going to use for realistically 10-15 matches total before I traded it in.

 

You want Recruit gear to be required, make it suck less, or cost less.

 

Agree wholeheartedly with the highlighted. Recruit gear sucks.

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If you don't want to pay the money for gear you'll only use for a week, then don't join the warzones.

 

I'd rather wait longer, then get a 10 minute discount only to be surrounded by badly undergeared, ineffective teammates.

 

I'll never hear the tears of cost in this game either, you can spend 2 hours soloing dailies and clear 150-200k if you do it right. People just don't want to earn money in the game. Lazy, lazy, lazy.

 

Rebuttal:

 

If you don't wanna be surrounded by undergeared ineffective teammates, then don't join the warzones. (bet you sure don't mind playing against them though do ya?)

 

They would rather wait longer, then get a 10 minute discount only to be surrounded by WH geared players who are just going to blame their losses on them.

 

I do hear the tears of cost in this game, because people who actually PVP a lot, hit 50 LONG before their class/planet dailies can net them anywhere near 150-200k. And they shouldn't have to jump ahead in their story to help you in a WZ. So again they are faced with the question: Do I spend 6 hours PVE'ing to get gear so I can spend 6 hours PVP'ing to get BM gear, or do I just spend 7 hours PVP'ing and go right to the BM gear?

 

See what I did there, I am saying that what you want is no more important than what someone else wants.

 

Furthermore, of the two sides, you are the only one's making demands of someone else. So in fact what you want is LESS important because you're asking someone to do something FOR YOU. (Don't pretend for a second you care about the gaming experience of these undergeared players)

 

But wait, aren't they asking us to carry them in WZs? Well I suppose if you were capable of carrying undergeared players, you'd be winning more and complaining less...

Edited by criminalheretic
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Rebuttal:

 

If you don't wanna be surrounded by undergeared ineffective teammates, then don't join the warzones. (bet you sure don't mind playing against them though do ya?)

 

They would rather wait longer, then get a 10 minute discount only to be surrounded by WH geared players who are just going to blame their losses on them.

 

I do hear the tears of cost in this game, because people who actually PVP a lot, hit 50 LONG before their class/planet dailies can net them anywhere near 150-200k. And they shouldn't have to jump ahead in their story to help you in a WZ. So again they are faced with the question: Do I spend 6 hours PVE'ing to get gear so I can spend 6 hours PVP'ing to get BM gear, or do I just spend 7 hours PVP'ing and go right to the BM gear?

 

See what I did there, I am saying that what you want is no more important than what someone else wants.

 

Furthermore, of the two sides, you are the only one's making demands of someone else. So in fact what you want is LESS important because you're asking someone to do something FOR YOU. (Don't pretend for a second you care about the gaming experience of these undergeared players)

 

But wait, aren't they asking us to carry them in WZs? Well I suppose if you were capable of carrying undergeared players, you'd be winning more and complaining less...

 

The difference is I have no choice but to join warzones if I want PvP.

Bioware killed/broke Ilum. I didn't touch a warzone for the first 2 months of my gaming life here.

 

Queueing as a pre-made is impossible, because my server is dead.

 

No one is good enough to carry more then 2 baddies in a warzone and only the very best PvPers could.

I'm not an all-star PvPer, and never claimed to be. However, it shouldn't be my job to carry the lazy and grossly undergeared. I don't care how good they actually are - if they are bad in the gear, then hey, we were all awful once.

 

I'm making demands of people to be responsible PvPers. Bioware makes the gear available, and most of it isn't expensive. If I can do it, so can you. Besides, trust me, you aren't replacing that recruit gear as quickly as you suggest. The servers are way, way too dead for that.

 

Also, the thing about spending that 6 hours PvEing to be able to make money is that it's something you should be doing REGARDLESS of whether you PvP or not. It's your gateway to easy (albeit tedious) money streams. I'm pretty confident everyone needs money at 50.

 

Besides, Bioware themselves put the recruit gear there so newbie 50's wouldn't be albatrosses on their team's chances at winning.

 

I appreciate your counterpoints though :)

Edited by islander
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Sorry but this is where you are off. Recruit is between champ and cent gear statwise and above champ when it comes to expertise, so yes you are infact more or less advocating 50 epics vs recruit.

????? You must mean Champ. No I am not advocating this, but there are some oranges that outclass champ pieces, namely belts and bracers, but you wouldn't know that...

You look at one class (sage/sorc) and go "derp derp too much stat difference". However, some classes gain alot more by picking their recruit pieces instead of modded level 50 orange gear.

Sorry try again. You have ALL stat options available by choosing orange gear, recruit you do not, regardless of class.

And we arent talking about 10% on a as you put it "10%: LOL... 10% on an attack of 1400..", its 10% less on every spell no matter what it does. The recruit gear will out damage you in PvP with those sets you compared, and thats the worst itemized set out there, the sage/shadow recruit set. When it comes to BH/Troop they have a significant power boost that comes with the expertise aswell. And all you get are a lousy 1k extra HP over the recruit gear.

I guess you failed to notice what 10% and tier for tier means. :rolleyes: Even on your best attack we are talking double-digit differences at this level where HP is well over 12K. Even if you could crit me 5 straight times it still amount to nothing. [EDIT] Even in WZ totals, is 165K a great improvement over 150K?

 

You also missed the fact that I went one tier below you on all items. I had 1k advantage with gear a tier lower than your champ/BM. I would effectively double that if I went tier for tier. Recruit gear is not vastly superior to ANY gear 49/50 and a joke in any other case.

Edited by L-RANDLE
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Pro's of Recruit gear:

 

~ You gain 10% damage increase in PvP

~ you gain 10% damage reduction in PvP

~ You gain 7% increase in healing received in PvP

 

Cons:

~ You loose 2k HP

~ You loose 1-2k Primary stat (If geared with 50 mods, You actually gain some primary stat if wearing corellia armor)

 

Pros of wearing PvE gear in a WZ:

 

.. There are none

 

Cons of PvE gear in a WZ:

~ You take anywhere from 10 - 30% more damage from players

~ Your damage against enemy players can get reduced anywhere from 10-30%

~ You gain no bonus in healing received

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????? You must mean Champ. No I am not advocating this, but there are some oranges that outclass champ pieces, namely belts and bracers, but you wouldn't know that...

Sorry try again. You have ALL stat options available by choosing orange gear, recruit you do not, regardless of class.

I guess you failed to notice what 10% and tier for tier means. :rolleyes: Even on your best attack we are talking double-digit differences at this level where HP is well over 12K. Even if you could crit me 5 straight times it still amount to nothing. [EDIT] Even in WZ totals, is 165K a great improvement over 150K?

 

You also missed the fact that I went one tier below you on all items. I had 1k advantage with gear a tier lower than your champ/BM. I would effectively double that if I went tier for tier. Recruit gear is not vastly superior to ANY gear 49/50 and a joke in any other case.

 

There are no oranges that outclass champ pieces, never were, because you would need them fully modded with cul mods to get even close, at which point you would still have an inferior armoring aswell as no set bonus or expertise. You dont have all stat options with orange gear, you miss the most important pvp stat, expertise. And modding a full orange gear at 50 is more of a waste of credits than getting a full recruit set for PvPing. Because there wont be an expertise stat on it and you just wasted the same or more credits upgrading inferior gear for PvPing. All you gain is a slight stat boost.

 

You still havent clarified which gear you used, I have no clue about the look of PvE gear, certainly not pub gear. You also compared your epic gear to recruit gear, not my champ gear.

 

You would still hit me for 10% less in PvP with all attacks, making your 1k extra HP obsolete. Fine you can go in with higher PvE gear, doesnt help your situation more than vs the worst pvp geared players, the ones in recruit. You are still dead meat vs any type of pvp gear above than, and vs most recruits.

 

150k vs 165k. No because those types of damage values make me laugh hard. Bad will still be bad, no matter the gear. It also ends up with you dying alot more because you die that much faster against everyone. You miss 16% extra abs for 1k more HP vs recruit gear. Then comes the BM gear and flatlines you in 2 seconds, while the recruit can atleast put up a fight. As a comparison, my merc aswell as PT, both pyro, pulled around 350k, or more at times in full recruit gear, besides weapons and relics at 50. My PT used the WH gun and my merc used two BM guns, rest was recruit gear. This is very easy to obtain directly after hitting 50. I didnt go out of my way to get the damage, I played objective based in all BGs. I picked all parts I could that added power to my gear fromt he recruit sets, wasnt very hard. Sadly not all classes have this option, some recruit gear is gimped, but expertise is still more important than other stats.

 

You just dont seem to get what a huge boost 18% extra damage and 16% extra abs is as a fresh player in PvP. It turns that 22% BM damage bonus into a 6% damage bonus and his 20% abs into 2% more abs. The biggest difference between recruit and BM comes down to the stats. But vs the PvE gear they will always have that 22%/20% edge over the PvE geared player, even if the PvE stats are slightly higher, it just wont make up for a 20% damage difference. For you dps to increase 20% above BM gear in PvP you would need astronomical stats on the gear.

 

Again, you didnt compare to my champ BM gear, where my sorc was lightyears ahead of you. I'm not gonna post the stats again. Next time, read through your posts before making things up as you go. You were 1k HPs ahead in PvE gear vs Recruit, which is in between champ gear and cent when it comes to stats/rating, but a wee bit higher expertise. I suspect you were wearing tio gear, roughly the same level as recruit gear and you fell behind 10% on damage.

 

Sorry for the long post, just posting what I have time for when I post, still very busy having fun in Diablo 3.

 

Also, since you seem to have no trouble with running around in orange modded gear in PvP, could you put one together and compare it to a recruit set so we can see that "huge" stat difference? Also, keep track of the price please for a full set.

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