Bioware's main marketing strategy for promoting this game is based around the concept of leveling multiple alts in an attempt to "buy time" as you will. With that said, I have yet to meet a majority of persons more interested in leveling an alt than that of the populace that's more interested in achieving max level (quickly) and playing end game. I have heard time and time, again and again by unbiased players, that they're not concered with a story line, it's the end game that's the beginning of the game. However, with Bioware's main focus as I stated before which is clearly centered around leveling and this story of theirs isn't going to last long at all. The only way this game will make it 5 years from now, is with a vast amount of end game content, less grinding of quests and a more PvP/PvE content.

I've broken it down into a more "explanatory" context for the players that are surely going to disagree with my statements, regardless of how true they may or may not be in your own opinions. With a casual player, we'll say they have roughly 3 hours of play time per day, averaging roughly 15-20 hours per week, at an average of 3-4 levels per week. And this is only if you wish to level every single class from 1-50 for both factions, meaning you're that diehard for a storyline.

(Based on casual players, that aren't glued to their computers 24/7 and actually listening to the story/side quests)

3-4 levels per week, with 15-20 hours playing time

3+ months per character

8 different story lines = 24 months of non-stop leveling alts

(optional leveling both sub-classes) 16 different sub-classes = 48 months

And that's to build a character only to stop at 50, rinse and repeat. Why on earth would anyone in their right mind look forward to leveling something to max (Which is the main goal in the first place). Only to stop and do the same thing all over again ?

I enjoy TOR, I think it's a great idea creating an mmo that's based around the idea of the star wars saga. However, no one regardless of how much you want to defend it, is going to level all these characters and enjoy this Bioware story for years. They'll play for few months, level 1-2 characters and quit. The only way this game will last in the long run, would be to cut leveling times, increase end game content and promote end game involvement. Bioware's strategy simply put, is shooting yourself in the foot.

Reasons I play SWTOR - (In order of importance to me.)

Story - I love the story lines. Being as there are 8 classes, and I consider myself a casual gamer (I've been playing almost 3 weeks and just finished Chapter 1 on my IA), I think I'll be fine for a while.

Space Combat - reminds me of the "way back" of X-Wing and Tie Fighter...

It's the best Sci-Fi MMO I've played.

It's freaking Star Wars!

<various miscellaneous reasons>

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End-game Raiding

PvP

Nice opinion, bro.

See, you went and made me bark a shrill laugh. Fortunately, nobody else saw/heard.

I see this game as having plenty to offer to both crowds. I quested HARD to get to 50, and now I'm doing it again, and loving it. At the same time, I have a lot of story/gear/pvp/titles/codex entries/exploration/crafting to go on my main. Every time I log on, I feel like I have a lot to do, whether it's my main or one of my six alts. Really, I think that's the most important aspect: feeling motivated to accomplish goals on any given character. That's just my opinion.

I have yet to meet a majority of persons more interested in leveling an alt than that of the populace that's more interested in achieving max level (quickly) and playing end game.

I have heard a few times that end game is the only game. OP, you state that most MMO gamers feel this way.

Sorry but I must disagree with that statement. I don't know where you get your ideas about most gamers (from the forums?), but every single gamer I know wants a rich MMO experience from beginning to end and beyond.

Personally, story/lore is very important to me. The journey is the most fun for me. When I reach "the end," even in a game with excellent endgame content, I feel the wind go out of my sails. I prolong the journey as long as I can.

To that end, since leveling is ridiculously fast in swtor, I have:

1. a level 41 imp op dps

2. a level 14 imp op healer

3. a level 26 assassin

4., 5, 6. some low level sith and a bh

and on another server

7, 8, 9, 10. a few jedi padawans and a lowbie smuggler waiting for my attention.

I do agree this alt push by BW won't work for long for many people, but not because the endgame is the only game. It will fail because many people like to focus on a main character. I'm the same, actually. I love alts, but as a side amusement. I attach myself to my main as we embark on our several-year long journey (not month long journey to the endgame).

Cut leveling times and focus only on endgame... why bother with leveling at all? Why bother with an MMO at all??

For you TL/DR types: To have a game be successful longterm, it can't rely solely on alts to keep people occupied. However, beginning middle and endgame are equally important.

Some people do nothing but level alts, even in WoW.

Even hardcore raiders will have more than one alt to ensure they can fill in missing spots for their raid groups, tank alts, healer alts, dps alts.

Your analysis is flawed.

That's okay, no one blames you. It's pretty difficult to meet the majority of 1.7 million people, after all.

It's funny, because this game doesn't have anywhere NEAR 1.7 million people playing. Sure, their subscriptions might be close (which I also doubt), but I'd hazard a guess that the number of people actually playing on a daily basis is under a million. I'm sure the fanboys will froth at the mouth and demand proof, but I have all the proof I need. I've re-rolled off of three dead servers and every person in my guild of 50+ people has quit. All of my real life friends have quit. That's the only proof I need.

It's funny, because this game doesn't have anywhere NEAR 1.7 million people playing. Sure, their subscriptions might be close (which I also doubt), but I'd hazard a guess that the number of people actually playing on a daily basis is under a million. I'm sure the fanboys will froth at the mouth and demand proof, but I have all the proof I need. I've re-rolled off of three dead servers and every person in my guild of 50+ people has quit. All of my real life friends have quit. That's the only proof I need.

Assuming your own personal experience can even be taken seriously as proof, you really think WoW has 10 million people playing now?

Your post is moot. OF COURSE there are not 1.7 million people playing everyday.

Assuming your own personal experience can even be taken seriously as proof, you really think WoW has 10 million people playing now?

 

Your post is moot. OF COURSE there are not 1.7 million people playing everyday.

Who's talking about WoW? I certainly never said anything about that game. Why is it that people defending this game always feel the need to bring WoW into the argument? Is it because this game can't stand against criticism on its own?

All I know is that a handful of servers with a good population and dozens of deserted wastelands doesn't bode well for any game. Bioware's continued incompetence only adds to the problem.

Funny how, in this crazy ol' world, not everyone is the same!

Alt-aholic, and have a blast. That someone can't understand that I enjoy it is, well, their problem, not mine. I am glad that BW has created a game where my alt-itis is a whole lot of fun (for me of course).

Can anyone explain to me how playing a different play-style through the same 90% of story for 10% class story is fun?

 

I leveled a sage, doing All but bonus series, listening to all conversations. I made a gunslinger alt pretty much while I waited for people to catch up, and by the time I got through Coruscant I had lost all interest in anything any of the quest givers were saying because I had heard it before and pvp + class story only leveled the toon.

I enjoyed the various class stories, diffrent play styles to each class, on quite a few alts, to each there own, simple common sense....

Can anyone explain to me how playing a different play-style through the same 90% of story for 10% class story is fun?

 

I leveled a sage, doing All but bonus series, listening to all conversations. I made a gunslinger alt pretty much while I waited for people to catch up, and by the time I got through Coruscant I had lost all interest in anything any of the quest givers were saying because I had heard it before and pvp + class story only leveled the toon.

I can explain. You assume everyone is like you. This will never be the case. It's most likely you are a young man or woman just starting out in the world and have yet to experience other people around you who do not share the same beliefs as you. This is ok. I used to be like that in my teenage years.

As you grow older, your life experiences will help you understand that everyone has different interests other than yours. It's quite shocking at first because you honestly believe that your way is the only way cause that's the most fun. But that's fun for you, maybe not for someone else.

For example, some people like to rollerblade. I can't stand it. Am I wrong? Are they wrong? There's no wrong answer. We are all built differently. One day you will "get it". Today is most likely not that day.

Can anyone explain to me how playing a different play-style through the same 90% of story for 10% class story is fun?

 

SmartArse Answer: Because they aren't you. Serious answer in two parts:

 

1. I found that all the quests do NOT give the same choices and there are variances based on class and, I s'pose, light/dark.

 

2. Kind of covered in SmartArse answer but some of us enjoy the game as it is, complete with some repeat. I get that others find this nearly incomprehensible but, and I mean this in a non-snarky way, that's their problem.

 

I leveled a sage, doing All but bonus series, listening to all conversations. I made a gunslinger alt pretty much while I waited for people to catch up, and by the time I got through Coruscant I had lost all interest in anything any of the quest givers were saying because I had heard it before and pvp + class story only leveled the toon.

Well, then, I guess this isn't for you. I've found differences which actually surprised me as I expected it to always be as you assert in doing various planet quest series. I got different choices and was able to make different responses between my sage and my 'slinger.

Can anyone explain to me how playing a different play-style through the same 90% of story for 10% class story is fun?

 

I leveled a sage, doing All but bonus series, listening to all conversations. I made a gunslinger alt pretty much while I waited for people to catch up, and by the time I got through Coruscant I had lost all interest in anything any of the quest givers were saying because I had heard it before and pvp + class story only leveled the toon.

Because it's FUN! I've played KoTOR 12 times, KotOR2 8 times, Mass Effect 4 times, and Mass Effect 2 3 times. All 100% the same.

What?! You mean to tell me I can replay, but 35%* is unique? And if I roll my second character as the opposite faction, then NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF CONTENT IS REPEATED?! Sign me up!!

*The curve actually is closer to about 32-ish%. The game starts out at 60% unique class content, then slowly ramps down to 10% at endgame.

Once I started playing alts and going through their story, my interest in SWTOR was completely renewed. Maybe I had made a bad choice in choosing sorcerer as my first character as its story is pretty lame in comparison to BH and warrior.

If youre skipping story and going to top as soon as possible, youre making a biiiig mistake.

ps. Playing PVP on alts helps me get lot of XP and speeds me past the planetary quests that I have already done greatly reducing the amount of repetition and I know how to avoid the most annoying quests (example, house of rist on alderaan, extremely long corridor stocked full with mobs spread around so you cant even run around them)

I have 14 characters. One is at lvl 36... Most are less than 20.

I'm probably not going to level my 36 again for a few months. End game doesn't really interest me. By the time I get there... there will be more stuff than I can conceivably do.

OP,

The hardcore/raiders are in the minority, you guys represent approximately 5% of the population. That figure comes from WoW data that shows less than 5% of guilds have downed Deathwing across all servers and less than 1% have slain Herioc Deathwing.

I understand that you do not care for their business model, but you have to understand that it is the best business model for them to generate maximum revenue. The truth is, the days of Everquest and classic WoW which was centered around end-game activities are gone.

You will find that every game that hits the market from now on whether it be Tera, Guild Wars 2, or the next WoW expansion will highly favor casual play.

You will get your end-game content but it will be slow and in small amounts. If you don't like that, you can quit. But I wouldn't plan on ever seeing another MMO game designer focus it's game design around end-game raiding again.

I love it! Thinly veiled contempt is refreshing!

 

I understand the concept people are different and enjoy different things. I know some people will watch their favorite movie again and again because they like the way the story is told, the message behind it, the emotions it compels...

 

What I fail to understand is how anyone can enjoy the core of the SWTOR story enough to put up with it a second or more time, with no real emotion, the only memorable characters being Grand Moff Kilran (because I loved poking fun at him on my smuggler but I can do that in hardmodes) and Satele because she appears so often as the FP quest giver.

 

oh... I see my wrong assumption, i am assuming people with alts actually enjoy that part, they are most likely trudging through it to get to the part they want from the alt.

That you fail to understand it doesn't change others' enjoyment of it. I'm not being snarky here. It is simply a difference in perspective. I don't get why PvP is such a big deal to people, I truly do not. But, I accept that it is and wish 'em well.

I am not "trudging" through anything, either. I don't pay a sub fee to "trudge". If I enjoy a game, I play it. If I don't, I go find something else to do.

Really, just accept that how you feel is fine for you and leave others the same courtesy. The "fail" that you are feeling is actually a huge WIN to many folks that play this game. For once, an MMO is NOT all about jetting to level-cap but far more about all that occurs getting there. This, for many, is GREAT!