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Macros for pvp, respecing, grabbing huttballs. Legal?


PoliteAssasin

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Is it possible to grab the ball while you are rolling? Not after (at the end of the roll), not before, during the roll, when your character's head is on the floor? Because I have watched this player's stream and the macro field respec is a huge advantage. I'm just wondering if he's using a macro once he's taking the ball at mid... because if he is, it's almost as worst as using a combat script...
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Is it possible to grab the ball while you are rolling? Not after (at the end of the roll), not before, during the roll, when your character's head is on the floor? Because I have watched this player's stream and the macro field respec is a huge advantage. I'm just wondering if he's using a macro once he's taking the ball at mid... because if he is, it's almost as worst as using a combat script...

 

60 clicks per second. Nuff said. I was talking to a buddy that recently came back to the game and said I have cyclone slash on 6 on my naga, he just casually said oh that is my 60 click per second button for getting the huttball. Like no big deal man.

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I don't feel like this is as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. I really doubt anyone is switching specs 4 times per WZ, especially if there are gear/quickbar changes that have to be made. To me seems like changing specs like that would really be much more difficult than everyone is letting on. It takes me a while to get used to a new spec if I switch at the beginning, I can't imagine what it would be like to switch several times in a WZ. If someone is capable of seamlessly switching specs like that multiple times I say good for them.

 

Grabbing the HB sounds a bit shadier but if you can't keep them away form the podium I have news for you, you aren't holding mid. So if the match is decided by whoever can click the fastest at mid you may want to try a new strategy.

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I don't feel like this is as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. I really doubt anyone is switching specs 4 times per WZ, especially if there are gear/quickbar changes that have to be made.

If I ever implement my respec macro it will include swapping gear, changing stance and fixing the quickbar. If I can write a macro to click out a spec in a skill tree I can surely do all the other things. The whole point is to change spec (and everything associated with it) quickly.

 

To me seems like changing specs like that would really be much more difficult than everyone is letting on. It takes me a while to get used to a new spec if I switch at the beginning, I can't imagine what it would be like to switch several times in a WZ. If someone is capable of seamlessly switching specs like that multiple times I say good for them.

Respeccing more than once during an active WZ is probably uncommon. I agree that the advantage a quick respec macro gives is probably small.

 

In a huttball discussion thread, one RWZ player mentioned that his team has 1 of their 2 snipers respec marksman (for diversion) if and only if they see they are facing a particular team. In theory they might want to respec MM against another team if the other team started using the tactic they use MM to counter.

 

a quick respec in WZ in response to what you see from your opponent certainly has some value. This value depends on your ability to play multiple specs well and to recognize when a spec change would help.

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If I ever implement my respec macro it will include swapping gear, changing stance and fixing the quickbar. If I can write a macro to click out a spec in a skill tree I can surely do all the other things. The whole point is to change spec (and everything associated with it) quickly.

 

Respeccing more than once during an active WZ is probably uncommon. I agree that the advantage a quick respec macro gives is probably small.

 

That could certainly be done but it would a high susceptibility to errors. If something wasn't in the same slot as before the wrong abilities would get moved around. Especially with gear. Probably not an issue for peopel who keep their bags organized but it could get weird for people who mess that up.

 

In a huttball discussion thread, one RWZ player mentioned that his team has 1 of their 2 snipers respec marksman (for diversion) if and only if they see they are facing a particular team. In theory they might want to respec MM against another team if the other team started using the tactic they use MM to counter.

 

a quick respec in WZ in response to what you see from your opponent certainly has some value. This value depends on your ability to play multiple specs well and to recognize when a spec change would help.

 

I wouldn't debate that it has value. However I can respec my Commando from heals to DPS fairly quickly. All in all for a macro respec we are talking a difference of maybe 10 seconds for a full gear/quickbar/spec change (I have things setup so I know where the abilities I get in the trees will end up). So if it's coming down to that player being busy respeccing for 10 seconds agian your strategy might need some work.

 

However what happens to CD's in between respecs could be a problem. For instance in your Sniper MM example, diversion has a 1 min CD. What happens if you use it, wipe the team or get LoS so you can use your macro respec in safety, and respec right back into MM. Technically during your respec you forgot Diversion and relearned it, So does the CD get reset?

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However what happens to CD's in between respecs could be a problem. For instance in your Sniper MM example, diversion has a 1 min CD. What happens if you use it, wipe the team or get LoS so you can use your macro respec in safety, and respec right back into MM. Technically during your respec you forgot Diversion and relearned it, So does the CD get reset?

 

Clearly using respec to bypass a cooldown (if this works) is an exploit. Alas, that is a problem for BW.

Edited by funkiestj
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As mentioned before if BW wants to solve this issue, the logical thing is to not allow field respecs once the WZ has started.

 

Personally I dont think field respeccing should be allowed at all in a PVP environment as some classes gain a lot more from respeccing than others (i.e. heals->dps) but I know a lot of people who rely on this feature, esp in maps like Voidstar where they turtle (dps->tanks, dps->heals) on defense and then switch back to dps when attacking. This is a major advantage over the 2 AC's (Snipers and Maras) that cannot switch. Have you ever tried to cap a door in voidstar with 4 healers and 2 tanks, not my definition of fun and then when it is their turn to attack the 2 tanks switch to DPS and 2 of the healers switch to DPS.

 

Also field respeccing can create imbalances like, operative healers dot their entire team, drop out of combat, use macro to respec and then act as DPS while there dots are still working as heal spec'd.

Edited by bsbrad
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If these people are not punished, that's mostly because they have to be reported, and what kind of proof or clue do we have to suspect people from using illegal means ? There is hardly some, and we can't start to report all people who respec just in case they macro'ed.

 

That's why you're true saying that they should take measures to avoid doubts and having trouble with the rule enforcing. Disabling respeccing during a WZ is probably the only avaliable way.

 

Exactly. A rule that is impossible (or very very hard) to enforce is a bad rule.

 

The ideal we strive for is not "report people for exploiting" but rather "there are no exploits". Sure, the perfect ideal of no exploits is not practical but it is what we should be aiming for.

 

either of

  • allowing respec macros
  • prohibiting respec after WZ playing field has been entered (i.e. the game blocks respec in this case)

satisfy the ideal.

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Exactly. A rule that is impossible (or very very hard) to enforce is a bad rule.

 

The ideal we strive for is not "report people for exploiting" but rather "there are no exploits". Sure, the perfect ideal of no exploits is not practical but it is what we should be aiming for.

 

either of

  • allowing respec macros
  • prohibiting respec after WZ playing field has been entered (i.e. the game blocks respec in this case)

satisfy the ideal.

 

all they need to do is just put a delay when respecing and drop all buffs/stances/stealth/healing dots, etc (but not debuffs) while in this delay. Make the delay 10-15 seconds or more. And if someone takes damage while in this delay, the respec immediately fails. boom, case closed. people can still respec at the rez point at the start (or if they die), and crafty ones can respec while in the zone if they find a safe place where no one is looking for them or comes across them.

 

If they want to get nasty about it, make the respec that all but 1% of their total health as well. That with the removal of the buffs and the delay, should remove in-combat 1-sec-macro-respecing idiots...

Edited by mulzii
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How to make quick respec macro. You probably won't do it with mouse/hardware macro firmware because they do not allow macroing mouse cursor position on coordinates. Need 3rd party programm, example: autohotkey.

 

Actually Autohotkey does not work with SWtoR. This is the evidence pointing to macros using mouse cursor location and screen output detection as being illegal. 95+% of such macro programs do not work in SWtoR. SWtoR specifically detects them and locks them out. A very select few macro programs are patched after SWtoR patches to allow them to circumvent SWtoR's macro detection protocols. This is a cat and mouse game between SWtoR and the macro programs. Activity which implicitly shows that such programs are intended to be illegal.

Edited by Macroeconomics
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Actually Autohotkey does not work with SWtoR. This is the evidence pointing to macros using mouse cursor location and screen output detection as being illegal. 95+% of such macro programs do not work in SWtoR. SWtoR specifically detects them and locks them out. A very select few macro programs are patched after SWtoR patches to allow them to circumvent SWtoR's macro detection protocols. This is a cat and mouse game between SWtoR and the macro programs. Activity when implicitly shows that such programs are intended to be illegal.

 

It works just fine lmao. There are at least 3 other programs that do as well.

 

Edit: Macro detection protocols LMAO, the only time a pixel reader program has problems running with this game is when they change up the thumbnails for the buffs.

Edited by Crawelc
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Ugh, I know how you feel, Neo. You can get the first goal or two against them and then never get the ball again no matter how much you outnumber them at mid. Just 3 or 4 of them can decimate an excellent team that doesn't cheat. They're are all very good players that have no need to cheat, especially in regs. I lost a lot of respect for them over the matter.

 

Pretty much yeah. Being able to speed up the click its pretty much impossible to beat those players especially if you don't do a good job of locking them down, which can be difficult with CC immunity abilities.

 

Can you explain how it could possibly affect the outcome of a huttball match that a player spends 7 seconds respeccing before the match begins rather than 15 seconds?

 

Oh please, just stop. You know very well that isn't the issue we're discussing. Respeccing at the beginning of a match is not the same as doing it mid match in 3-4 seconds with the push of 1 button. And the issue with huttball is speed clickers able to grab the ball every time no matter how many others are spamming for it legitimately.

 

the rules are not vague. its simple, using a macro to automate something to give yourself an advantage is not allowed. using a macro to respec before a WZ starts is not the same as recpecing multiple times during a WZ because your cheater macro can do it in a few seconds.

 

Basically this.

 

60 clicks per second. Nuff said. I was talking to a buddy that recently came back to the game and said I have cyclone slash on 6 on my naga, he just casually said oh that is my 60 click per second button for getting the huttball. Like no big deal man.

 

Exactly what screws over huttball.

 

 

Would love a developer response on this if at all possible.

Edited by PoliteAssasin
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Pretty much yeah. Being able to speed up the click its pretty much impossible to beat those players especially if you don't do a good job of locking them down, which can be difficult with CC immunity abilities.

 

Oh please, just stop. You know very well that isn't the issue we're discussing. Respeccing at the beginning of a match is not the same as doing it mid match in 3-4 seconds with the push of 1 button. And the issue with huttball is speed clickers able to grab the ball every time no matter how many others are spamming for it legitimately.

.

 

No one uses huttball speedclickers --- except possibly you, given your history with projection. If you let it get to a click-off, people with lower ping always win. (Which is why, as a 100ms ping player, I try not to let that happen.) If you're struggling to pick up the ball, though, I suggest that your first priority should learning to position yourself at mid when the ball spawns --- I never see you there. Gotta learn to let go of the scores you can't prevent.

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Seriously though does anyone know if the CD resets on an ability you lose/gain back through a respec into the same tree?

 

If a Guardian could respec every time he scored to reset Warding Call that would be pretty bad.

 

It keeps the CD timer (Skill comes back with the same CD amount). 100% sure, I tested it last night. Doesn't matter how, where, what tree, etc that you respec in. This is at least true for juggs, not sure on the other classes. So really the third party hacks are the only way to reset CDs.

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It keeps the CD timer (Skill comes back with the same CD amount). 100% sure, I tested it last night. Doesn't matter how, where, what tree, etc that you respec in. This is at least true for juggs, not sure on the other classes. So really the third party hacks are the only way to reset CDs.

 

Good to know. Thanks for the confirmation.

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  • Dev Post
Hey guys I had a question, and hopefully a developer can chime in as well. There is a guild on my server, who shall go unnamed, that uses macros in warzones both regs and rateds in order to respec in literally 3-4 seconds, speed click the huttball on the pit, and other things. I was under the impression this wasnt in compliance with the TOS, but one of the members linked a message where he interpreted Bioware saying its ok for quality of life to mean he can do these things in pvp. Obviously this gives them huge advantages in warzones. Doesn't matter how many people you have at mid if one of them are there they will always grab the ball, and as I said, and did not exaggerate, they can switch between dps and heals, or tank and dps within a matter of 3-4 seconds while walking through a warzone.

 

So basically, is this against TOS or is it ok to do these things? One of the reasons we are hesitant to do rateds with them is because of the huge advantage this brings, and we don't want to do it as well to simply end up banned, just for the sake of being on equal footing. So please let me know, and if a Bioware employee could shed some light on it I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Chiming in....

 

I'll be as clear as I can be.

 

Automation of the game in any way is against the ToS. This includes macro'ing in order to respec during Warzone matches.

 

Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.

 

Hopefully that doesn't leave room for 'interpretation'. If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no :jawa_wink:

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if it does, ask a binary question and i'll give a yes/no :jawa_wink:

 

0100100101110011001000000111010001101000011010010111001100100000011101110110100001100001011101000010000001111001011011110111010100100000011011010110010101100001011011100111010000111111

 

(trans: Is this what you meant?)

Edited by mydogclimbstree
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Chiming in....

 

I'll be as clear as I can be.

 

Automation of the game in any way is against the ToS. This includes macro'ing in order to respec during Warzone matches.

 

Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.

 

Hopefully that doesn't leave room for 'interpretation'. If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no :jawa_wink:

 

What about the software that comes with the SWTOR Razer Mouse. That is specifically build for Macroing. I think this is a bit confusing for folks who forked over $100 for the hardware and software based on this exact feature set.

 

Now you're saying that it's illegal to use the features of a product, which is specifically co-branded with SWTOR, that you marketed for this purpose?????

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What about the software that comes with the SWTOR Razer Mouse. That is specifically build for Macroing. I think this is a bit confusing for folks who forked over $100 for the hardware and software based on this exact feature set.

 

Now you're saying that it's illegal to use the features of a product, which is specifically co-branded with SWTOR, that you marketed for this purpose?????

 

^ What happens when marketinging/sales/branding people don't talk to operations people before running with great ideas. Ooops.

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0100100101110011001000000111010001101000011010010111001100100000011101110110100001100001011101000010000001111001011011110111010100100000011011010110010101100001011011100111010000111111

 

(trans: Is this what you meant?)

 

010000110110110001100101011101100110010101110010

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Chiming in....

 

I'll be as clear as I can be.

 

Automation of the game in any way is against the ToS. This includes macro'ing in order to respec during Warzone matches.

 

Remapping keys on a keyboard (or Nostromo or Logitech) device so that one key press == one click or ability cast within the game is fine. Using a programmable keyboard or software macro so that one key press == multiple clicks or ability casts in the game is not.

 

Hopefully that doesn't leave room for 'interpretation'. If it does, ask a binary question and I'll give a yes/no :jawa_wink:

 

Thanks for the information. However, With the mouse that you guys partnered with Razer to sell. There is a Macro window. I have not used it but at times I have been tempted to look into it. Is there anything official on that?

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