I thought I would just take a moment to vent a little tiny amount of rage that I've been experiencing lately due to the LFG tool. Let me preface this by saying that it's extremely helpful to have, but comes with a lot of baggage.

 

See, we've all been trained (more-or-less) by WoW's group finder tool to not consider the other players in our randomized group, because we would never see them again. However, this is not the case here. Oh no, I've seen many flame wars tear across gen. chat over perceived poor performance in random HM's. See, we've all gotta live together, and people will remember who you are. It's exactly like the olden days of WoW. If you create enough bad rep for yourself, your only real option is to pack up and leave town (especially with legacy names since you'll get found out sooner or later).

 

Therefore, for the sake of your healers: LEARN YOUR DAMN JOBS! I've grown sick and tired of a number of things, because they've come to be run of the mill in random groups and I'm tired of picking up everyone's (that's right, everyone's) slack.

 

Firstly, and this one is really just a matter of courtesy, please heal yourselves up after an encounter. It's one single button to push. However, time and again I will have to work overtime to keep those bars full. It's honestly getting to the point where I don't stop healing from start to finish in a dungeon. This is not fun for me. I'd like to be able to run along with everyone and have a nice time. But no. Healers are systematically forced to tie your shoelaces for you and smile about it the whole time.

 

Secondly, and this one is of dire concern, start learning kill order. It's not hard, it shouldn't even actually be a problem (though it does help to identify the scrubs). It goes Weak -> Strong -> Elite -> Champion. Why? Because your healer will pull aggro on all those weak enemies due to healing the tank while s/he, assumedly, holds aggro on everything (or at least the big bad). It is truly the mark of an uninvolved, unskilled dps who cannot take a few seconds to tab though all the targets and ferret out the weak ones first. Why is this of "dire concern"? Because if you don't kill them, the healer will spend more time keeping themselves alive than the tank, and that usually (read: always) turns out terrible.

 

And lastly, don't be so self-righteous when a healer asks you to do these things. It's really a bad state of things when we're having to point out that you're not doing your jobs. We're watching, the whole time. When you don't care for us, we don't care for you. I've already added a sizable amount of bad/lazy dps and tanks to my ignore list because I refuse to be kicked around any longer by their indifference.

 

So, please, don't carry your bad habits with you. Learn to carry your own weight, or tie your own shoelaces, because one day the people who grin and bear it won't be there any longer.

As a fellow healer I agree with all that you have said. Countless times i've been attacked by the weak mobs in HMs and although its no big deal since I can deal with it...I should not have to deal with it all the time. One other thing, for the love of god DPS will you please learn to interrupt mobs! I've lost track of the amount of times i've been in Kaon almost permanently stun locked by the mercenary mobs, because the group is too busy killing the other mobs <.<

While I agree with all your points (I play both mercenary and scoundrel healers) not everyone is perfect. People will make these mistakes time and time again and again, so my advice to you is either join a guild and always run with the same gang or just put more jelly in your donut, cause if you're gonna rage everytime a PuG does something that does not match your standard of gameplay, you're gonna be a very miserable person.

Sure, it might seem like an overreaction. However, this has happened literally every single PUG I've been grouped with since the group finder. I maintain this is all baggage carried over from WoW's group finder.

 

Anyways, healers, do you have any strategies for dealing with bad/ lazy players? Personally I make the simple requests (top yourselves off, keep the weak mobs off me) early then don't top them off between trash mobs. They don't want to take some responsibility for starting pulls at half health or lower; that's their problem. I'll still do just enough to keep them going, but that's about it.

 

Now, I do understand that not every player is a terri-bad. However, I hold myself to a certain standard of play, which is why I'm not one of the plebs. Really, the gap isn't that hard to cross, just put in a little more effort.

I've just quit using the group finder unless I already have part of the team made beforehand. Tired of putting up with tanks or dps not knowing their roles (and my friends are tired of the bad healers).

 

Note: I'm not referring to a lack of experience. I mean BAD players. "Why didn't you keep me alive?" Why were you standing in the fire when we warned you mutliple times before the fight?

 

I've had.. two good pug experiences since 1.3 came out. Everyone was geared, they communicated, and things went the way they were supposed to. Every other run there was at LEAST one person not pulling their weight. The only exception I have is for those players willing to listen to advice and pay attention to what is happening in the fights, which seems to be very few of the pugs I've run into.

I guess it also depends on which server you're playing. Jung Ma in my experience has very good PvE players (at least for T1 HMs) to the point where we regularly run PuGs completely silent and very smooth. Sure, there's also the ocasional bad PuGmate, but that's what the /ignore command is (LFG tool won't match you with a person you have on ignore)

I'm currently on Shadowlands (East Coast PVE). I dunno, my guild is sort of odd in that we don't seem to do too much together outside of raiding and random smatterings of PVP, so it's hard to get a group of good players I know together.

 

What really makes the LFG tool gimped to me is that you can queue for Lost Island only for the BH comms and to work on the weekly. However, you're still drawing from the same pool of lazy hacks. Seeing as LI is Tier 2 because it's harder, what's the point? I'd rather rub my face against a brick wall for hours and hours and hours and hours and HOURS than put up with that.

 

Fun anecdote time! I was once roundly flamed by a tank for not helping on interrupts on the first LI boss. Except I'm a healer, so that's not my job (three people staring at the boss can't promptly interrupt one ability?). Also, I'm a mercenary, so... /awkward shrug. Needless to say, that tank is on ignore now.

Regardless of wether im healing or damage dealing, I have had very few negative experiences with the group finder, At first I was very cautious about using it, I have never been a fan of healing pugs, however my experiences have mosty been positive.

 

I dont mind in-experienced players, if I need to help a healer in I will do, its not a big issue & bad players just need to learn too, I generally dont like to critisize I prefer to adapt,,but lazy players should not be tolerated its just unfair on the rest of the group.

 

K.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Kaesoron

sometimes when someone pulls a leroy jenkins without even using their out of combat heal beforehand, I just let them die.

 

Also, I can't stand how stupid some other healers are. On my main republic character, there was a commando that only paid attention to the tank. kept spamming hammer shot while everyone else died, and the few times they DID try healing someone besides the tank (the tank actually didn't need healing most of the time), they would use hammer shot for it. at full ammo. when we're almost dead.

I wouldn't discount Rapid Shots (i.e. Hammer Shot). If used over the course of 3 GCD's, which is roughly how long most heals take to cast, it can do a good amount of healing. Also, it's great for spot healing-- like if a dps gets clipped by an aoe attack.

 

However, lazy healing like what you described is intolerable. If I find myself in a raid with a lazy healer, usually I'll make it painfully obvious who's better. Even if they can do better numbers than me, a proactive healer (even a tank healer like me) can make the difference between wipe and success with even just a little extra effort.

Note: I'm not referring to a lack of experience. I mean BAD players. "Why didn't you keep me alive?" Why were you standing in the fire when we warned you mutliple times before the fight?

 

I think it's important to make the distinction between players who are learning the game, and players who don't want to learn. I agree with pretty much everything up there, but if a level 17, first character, is forgetting to heal up after fights on a run through HS, I'm perfectly willing to give some advice and let it be. I have had the extremely good luck of never personally encountering an abusive PuG, but I've heard the stories.

I think it's important to make the distinction between players who are learning the game, and players who don't want to learn. I agree with pretty much everything up there, but if a level 17, first character, is forgetting to heal up after fights on a run through HS, I'm perfectly willing to give some advice and let it be. I have had the extremely good luck of never personally encountering an abusive PuG, but I've heard the stories.

 

True, we were all noobs at one point. I think it's important to be able to identify those players. But yes, there is no excuse for lazy players.

Sure, it might seem like an overreaction. However, this has happened literally every single PUG I've been grouped with since the group finder. I maintain this is all baggage carried over from WoW's group finder.

 

Anyways, healers, do you have any strategies for dealing with bad/ lazy players? Personally I make the simple requests (top yourselves off, keep the weak mobs off me) early then don't top them off between trash mobs. They don't want to take some responsibility for starting pulls at half health or lower; that's their problem. I'll still do just enough to keep them going, but that's about it.

 

Now, I do understand that not every player is a terri-bad. However, I hold myself to a certain standard of play, which is why I'm not one of the plebs. Really, the gap isn't that hard to cross, just put in a little more effort.

 

if your a sage/sorc healer you find the biggest and baddest AOE you can find and pull them into it and watch them suffer........

Secondly, and this one is of dire concern, start learning kill order. It's not hard, it shouldn't even actually be a problem (though it does help to identify the scrubs). It goes Weak -> Strong -> Elite -> Champion. Why? Because your healer will pull aggro on all those weak enemies due to healing the tank while s/he, assumedly, holds aggro on everything (or at least the big bad). It is truly the mark of an uninvolved, unskilled dps who cannot take a few seconds to tab though all the targets and ferret out the weak ones first. Why is this of "dire concern"? Because if you don't kill them, the healer will spend more time keeping themselves alive than the tank, and that usually (read: always) turns out terrible.

 

I had this same issue earlier. People would charge in and all attack the elite first, leaving the strongs and weaks unattended and their focus on me. It was annoying, but luckily their DPS was good enough to burn the elites down fast.

 

Another thing is CC, I wish people used their 60 second mezzes more, and if by miracle they do, I wish people would watch their AoE's so as to not break it. As a healer I find myself CCing everything. Throwing a stun and using a project on a weak mob to pick up the slack of everyone else.

 

EDIT: And i'm sure we all hate the clueless ones that can't speak English. I joined an Esseles group last night that was already in progress. I could understand why their healer had rage quit. There was a shadow as dps who was using tank stance and wouldnt change it even after me bringing me it up several times. He'd also pop all of his CD's (resilience/deflection) at the start of a fight even though the tank was being targetted. I decided to soldier through it and it was only after we finished I bothered to inspect his gear... He had gear with strength and aim. It wasn't pretty.

 

Thankfully the ignore feature prevents you from grouping with people. I didn't ignore him as a person, but I had to ignore him so I didn't get grouped with him again.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Ashania

twice today, I had the same problem with healing. There was a sith juggernaut (different one for both times) in a heroic that claimed to be a tank, despite using shii-cho form, and not being able to hold ANY aggro. Apparently, when everyone but the 'tank" is taking heavy damage at once, any deaths are because merc healers suck.

 

On the bright side, I teamed up with a random powertech for the alderaan civil war warzone. At the end, not only did we blow away the other team as far as capturing turrets, but we both had about 45 kills- 0 deaths. First time i was ever "unbeatable"

Edited August 9, 2012 by bobmcbo

The group finder makes PUGs. If you want people who don't suck, make friends and join a guild.

Anyways, healers, do you have any strategies for dealing with bad/ lazy players? Personally I make the simple requests (top yourselves off, keep the weak mobs off me) early then don't top them off between trash mobs. They don't want to take some responsibility for starting pulls at half health or lower; that's their problem. I'll still do just enough to keep them going, but that's about it.

 

I tank rather than heal, but my strategy dealing with those players is usually to let them die. If they're being overzealous and repeatedly leaping into/pulling groups before I do, I won't do anything until that player is dead. If they won't listen to you, I think that's the next easiest thing to do to send a message.

 

I tend to mostly run with healers I know though so it's a bit easier for me, but I've had plenty of PuG healers ask me to let someone die, and as long as that healer is halfway competent I'm happy to oblige.

There's a difference between learning a fight and blatently standing in aoe damage. Making a healer's *** scramble to keep promode-joe alive is very inconsiderate. You are not the only person the healer needs to heal buddy.

 

Although, if you're running hard modes you should have the jist of how each fight goes down from running it in story mode so maybe this is a moot point.

First of all I do random groups daily with both a Smuggler Sawbones and a DPS Shadow Infil. I have never put anyone on my ignore list nor have I kicked anyone from a group. Once a shadow tank that wasn’t a tank at all got booted from the group, but the other two gave him/her the boot, not me.

 

That said, I mostly agree with the original poster. First thing anyone should do when joining a group is determine the groups make up. If you have 3 BH geared Tanks and DPS and a fresh 50 healer, then please don’t just run and gun through the entire thing. Top off heals between fights, use CCs, make weaks the priority, stay within range of the healer and give them a moment to regenerate energy between fights. If the healer is well equipped, then you can get away with some of that, but with the lower end game gear even the most well skilled healer just isn’t that great without some help from the rest of the group. Same thing goes for anyone just not yet completely geared up or fresh doing their first few HMFP, do stuff to help them and the group manage the fights. It is way faster to take a moment to CC something or kill the adds first rather than for the entire group to load back in after the healer and the tank die.

 

I’ve been getting instant groups with my healer lately and most of these groups have been in progress. I love them because I am just there for BH Comms, but usually I can spot the problems the group was having within a few mins. The Original Poster pretty much hit the nail on the head, the group does not heal between fights, does not use defensive cooldowns, does not get out of AOEs and does not kill stuff that kills the healer first. 90% of the time or more I can heal a group through these mistakes, but it isn’t because I am a more skilled healer than the one they booted…It is because I am geared for it and I have done most of the HMFP 10 times or more times each so I know what to expect and when. A new or under equipped healer is not going to be able to do the same things. When I had their gear the group would have died too.

 

Personally I could care less if a group heals between fights, I have no problem toping them off if it means we can move on faster, but please make sure you and the group is topped off before a boss fight starts. Also in a sawbones case, make sure they are ready and by ready already have at least one stack of upper hand, 2 if they are not overly well geared, before jumping into a boss fight.

 

Of course we all know the people that need to read this thread are too lazy or in too big a hurry to read this thread.

i hate it when people don't heal after the fight. There was a sorcerer with under half their health left at the end, and to try to keep them alive, i was healing them nonstop. Wasn't a good idea, because they died anyway, and I overheated.