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Can we talk about 258 gear?


kukumburr

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Here's what is currently on PTS:

  • Each piece of gear costs 4 masterwork shards (MWS), except for helm, chest, and legs, which cost 5. MH and OH are NOT available for purchase on the 258 vendor. All gear requires Hero rep except bracers and belt, which require Newcomer.
     
     
  • You can buy one MWS per week for 500 UCs. You can keep buying more but the cost is increased to 1000 UCs until the reset (not sure if this increases any further).
     
     
  • You can get one MWS per week from the Ossus weekly that requires you to do 4 Heroic missions.
     
     
  • You can get one MWS per week from the rotating Weekly mission. Only one I know of is complete 4 Master FPs. Presumably there will be some PvP related ones too.
     
     
  • MWS are bound to character, not legacy.
     
     
  • 51 MWS for everything on the vendor. Assuming you get 3 MWS a week, it would be about 4 months to get everything except MH/OH (not including the time it takes to grind rep).
     
     
  • To gear by MWS, you HAVE to complete all current story (assuming the daily area requires you to have completed the Ossus story). The only other option would be transferring armorings/mods across legacy (is this possible?).
     
     
  • Other options to get 258 gear: unassembled tokens which drop from NiM GotM (not sure about who drops what) or crafting which has insane CMT costs and likely expensive NiM GotM drops. Crafting would not require you to complete story. 258 MH/OH are currently available from crafting.

 

 

Now here are my issues with this:

  • I'm hoping this one is just a mistake on PTS, but MH and OH need to be on the 258 vendor. If the only way to get those is via super expensive crafting or NiM GotM, I will never be getting them. Please tell me this is not intentional as it is an incredibly bad idea.
     
     
  • BiS gear should not be BoE (via crafting). If getting BiS gear is a grind, it should be a grind for everyone. Only extremely wealthy players or the rare snowflake that does both NiM GotM and lots of ranked PvP will be able to get the crafted gear. Why can they bypass the grind? It sets a bad precedent and will encourage some people with too much disposable income to buy credits or flip stuff on the GTN (which I can only imagine is your intention with this).
     
     
  • You should not be required to be caught up on story to get BiS gear. You reach level 70 well before you get to current story arcs. Why should they be disadvantaged in doing harder group content just because they want to do the story at their own pace? I have a few characters that I do ranked PvP on who haven't gotten all the way through KotFE yet, but I do intend to get through it eventually. I don't want to skip it and have the game make choices for me. But now I have to rush through it so that I'll be able to get BiS gear again.
     
     
  • MWS should be legacy-wide. What does it matter what character I do stuff on? I'm still doing it. I don't know why you have this great system for alts but don't use it.
     
     
  • The grind is too long. Especially if you don't like doing PvE. If you only PvP, the UC cost is quite high, especially when the price goes up to 1000 per MWS. If this is how you plan on doing gear from now on please for the love of god bring back PvP gear. I don't mind having to do SOME grind, but I'd prefer to have the choice of WHAT to grind.
     
     
  • Why include a new complicated gearing system on top of an already complicated gearing system? Isn't this just making 230-248 gear pointless to go after? No one should spend UCs on them anymore since they have to hoard them for 258. There will be a greater gear gap then ever now that you can essentially jump straight to 258. I mean what's even the point of the 252 gear? Why would anyone waste 2 shards on each piece of those?

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We really need expertise back. That way, BiS pvp gear is obtainable by doing pvp and BiS pve gear is obtainable by doing NiM.

 

This is the only way to keep both gearing systems fair.

 

Until Bioware re-introduces PVP specific gear back into the game you are not going to be able to please both progression raiders and pvpers.

 

Loading into a warzone or solo ranked match and finding yourself on a team full of 119-122k hp players is pathetic, the concept of increasing this gear disparity is just insane.

 

Finally bolster, in it's current implementation, is simply not a feasible solution since it does not bolster tertiary stats, armor rating (unless this has been adjusted), or augments.

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We really need expertise back. That way, BiS pvp gear is obtainable by doing pvp and BiS pve gear is obtainable by doing NiM.

 

I tend to agree, the only issue I see that would likely lead to big discontent is that if the only way to get BIS PVE gear is NiM 90% of the player base won't be able to get BIS PVE gear which would lead to a ton of pissed off players.

 

I do think your suggestion is how it should be, but we need to consider the welfare of the game, since 4.0 BIS gear has been accessible not having to do NiM, that's what people have grown use to [wasn't that way before 4.0, it was as you suggest than mostly], and right or wrong we don't want to see a big player loss. Pandora's Box.

 

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Too late now :cool:

 

If the proposed system as on the PTS proves to be how things are when it goes live, I will be full 258 BIS geared out 10 minutes after 5.10 goes live.A sizable minority of PVPers are sitting on a ton of UCs [i have 60,000] anyone who does as well will join me. Yeah it seems like a 'good' thing, but it shouldn't be possible. That's way to fast and leaves the player in the exact same position as now.

 

I do feel BIS gear shouldn't be easy to get, or fast to get. While many don't have that many UCs saved, I tend to think probably 25% may very well be sitting on similar amounts. The might consider putting a limit on how many peices of 258 a player could get per week, 2 per week perhaps. That would extend the gearing up time and not leave the players with a horde of UCs having such an overwhelming advantage compared to the larger segment of the player base right out of the gate and thus still give purpose towards some time spent in order to get full BISed out.

 

Regarding the 258 off-hand/main hand, not being obtainable like the rest of the 258, on the one hand I can see how that would piss off a lot of players if the only way to get it was NiM or ridiculous amounts of credits from crafted source [bIS gear should not be craftable at all ever for any reason or anyone], but also give the nod to those players able to do the hardest content in the game. As much as I might see that perspective, 90% of the player won't ever get 258 mainhand and off hand, which quite honestly is that Grand poo bears of all gear as they have the highest increase of stat value out of all gear.

 

To be fair, people who aren't interested in PVE or PVP shouldn't be forced to play a content type they don't like/play. All BIS gear should be fully obtainable solely in each game type. If PVPers can't get offhand/mainhand doing only PVP they will lose their minds. - Which is why PVP gear is the best option for PVPers.

 

PVE and PVP shouldn't share the same gear. The Raider/PVPer mentality with regard to gearing can't be reconciled.

Edited by WayOfTheWarriorx
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Here's what is currently on PTS:

  • Each piece of gear costs 4 masterwork shards (MWS), except for helm, chest, and legs, which cost 5. MH and OH are NOT available for purchase on the 258 vendor. All gear requires Hero rep except bracers and belt, which require Newcomer.
     
     
  • You can buy one MWS per week for 500 UCs. You can keep buying more but the cost is increased to 1000 UCs until the reset (not sure if this increases any further).
     
     
  • You can get one MWS per week from the Ossus weekly that requires you to do 4 Heroic missions.
     
     
  • You can get one MWS per week from the rotating Weekly mission. Only one I know of is complete 4 Master FPs. Presumably there will be some PvP related ones too.
     
     
  • MWS are bound to character, not legacy.
     
     
  • 51 MWS for everything on the vendor. Assuming you get 3 MWS a week, it would be about 4 months to get everything except MH/OH (not including the time it takes to grind rep).
     
     
  • To gear by MWS, you HAVE to complete all current story (assuming the daily area requires you to have completed the Ossus story). The only other option would be transferring armorings/mods across legacy (is this possible?).
     
     
  • Other options to get 258 gear: unassembled tokens which drop from NiM GotM (not sure about who drops what) or crafting which has insane CMT costs and likely expensive NiM GotM drops. Crafting would not require you to complete story. 258 MH/OH are currently available from crafting.

 

 

Now here are my issues with this:

  • I'm hoping this one is just a mistake on PTS, but MH and OH need to be on the 258 vendor. If the only way to get those is via super expensive crafting or NiM GotM, I will never be getting them. Please tell me this is not intentional as it is an incredibly bad idea.
     
     
  • BiS gear should not be BoE (via crafting). If getting BiS gear is a grind, it should be a grind for everyone. Only extremely wealthy players or the rare snowflake that does both NiM GotM and lots of ranked PvP will be able to get the crafted gear. Why can they bypass the grind? It sets a bad precedent and will encourage some people with too much disposable income to buy credits or flip stuff on the GTN (which I can only imagine is your intention with this).
     
     
  • You should not be required to be caught up on story to get BiS gear. You reach level 70 well before you get to current story arcs. Why should they be disadvantaged in doing harder group content just because they want to do the story at their own pace? I have a few characters that I do ranked PvP on who haven't gotten all the way through KotFE yet, but I do intend to get through it eventually. I don't want to skip it and have the game make choices for me. But now I have to rush through it so that I'll be able to get BiS gear again.
     
     
  • MWS should be legacy-wide. What does it matter what character I do stuff on? I'm still doing it. I don't know why you have this great system for alts but don't use it.
     
     
  • The grind is too long. Especially if you don't like doing PvE. If you only PvP, the UC cost is quite high, especially when the price goes up to 1000 per MWS. If this is how you plan on doing gear from now on please for the love of god bring back PvP gear. I don't mind having to do SOME grind, but I'd prefer to have the choice of WHAT to grind.
     
     
  • Why include a new complicated gearing system on top of an already complicated gearing system? Isn't this just making 230-248 gear pointless to go after? No one should spend UCs on them anymore since they have to hoard them for 258. There will be a greater gear gap then ever now that you can essentially jump straight to 258. I mean what's even the point of the 252 gear? Why would anyone waste 2 shards on each piece of those?

 

Well written and I support your conclusions. It’s why I’m also unhappy at the current system,

 

We need access to the 258 MH and OH at the vendor.

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We really need expertise back.

And half of the casual PVPing population gone this way. Yeah no.

 

As for the new gearing, it's a HOT MESS. Gone is the simplicity (yet another gearing currency, what was the point of streamlining the gear econoy Bioware?), nonsensical crafting mat requirements, lack of Main/Offhands etc.

Edited by Pietrastor
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I tend to agree, the only issue I see that would likely lead to big discontent is that if the only way to get BIS PVE gear is NiM 90% of the player base won't be able to get BIS PVE gear which would lead to a ton of pissed off players.

 

I do think your suggestion is how it should be, but we need to consider the welfare of the game, since 4.0 BIS gear has been accessible not having to do NiM, that's what people have grown use to [wasn't that way before 4.0, it was as you suggest than mostly], and right or wrong we don't want to see a big player loss. Pandora's Box.

 

Yeah, that's the only downside. But honestly, all those player mostly do heroics and SM ops where you don't need gear so it wouldn't change anything for them.

 

 

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Too late now :cool:

 

People always complain, so at least make they complain when fixing the gearing system, they'll get over it eventually ^^

 

If the proposed system as on the PTS proves to be how things are when it goes live, I will be full 258 BIS geared out 10 minutes after 5.10 goes live.A sizable minority of PVPers are sitting on a ton of UCs [i have 60,000] anyone who does as well will join me. Yeah it seems like a 'good' thing, but it shouldn't be possible. That's way to fast and leaves the player in the exact same position as now.

 

I do feel BIS gear shouldn't be easy to get, or fast to get. While many don't have that many UCs saved, I tend to think probably 25% may very well be sitting on similar amounts. The might consider putting a limit on how many peices of 258 a player could get per week, 2 per week perhaps. That would extend the gearing up time and not leave the players with a horde of UCs having such an overwhelming advantage compared to the larger segment of the player base right out of the gate and thus still give purpose towards some time spent in order to get full BISed out.

 

I have like 500 UC now lol. It'll be a long grind for me :/

 

Regarding the 258 off-hand/main hand, not being obtainable like the rest of the 258, on the one hand I can see how that would piss off a lot of players if the only way to get it was NiM or ridiculous amounts of credits from crafted source [bIS gear should not be craftable at all ever for any reason or anyone], but also give the nod to those players able to do the hardest content in the game. As much as I might see that perspective, 90% of the player won't ever get 258 mainhand and off hand, which quite honestly is that Grand poo bears of all gear as they have the highest increase of stat value out of all gear.

 

Having 258 crafted being BoE is a stupid idea. You're giving an awful lot of power to people doing NiM which is less than 10% of the game. They'll become incredibly rich. I wish my guild wanted to do GotM NiM x)

 

To be fair, people who aren't interested in PVE or PVP shouldn't be forced to play a content type they don't like/play. All BIS gear should be fully obtainable solely in each game type. If PVPers can't get offhand/mainhand doing only PVP they will lose their minds. - Which is why PVP gear is the best option for PVPers.

 

PVE and PVP shouldn't share the same gear. The Raider/PVPer mentality with regard to gearing can't be reconciled.

 

I really don't think it should be possible to get BiS doing solo stuff. The whole concept of an MMO is to group with people.

 

And half of the casual PVPing population gone this way. Yeah no.

 

How would adding expertise back make half the casual pvpers go away ?

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How would adding expertise back make half the casual pvpers go away ?

Because getting entirelly separate set of gear just to be useful/not-burden in PVP is grindy & troublesome. Most of the casual PVPers will just drop, simple. And please, don't respond with "not that hard to get different set of gear and swap it". No, it's not, but it's still annoying (versus nearly the same PVE set as it is right now) and people just won't bother, like they didn't back in the day. PVP population and overall game population is low enough as it is, bringing back expertise will only seclude PVP experience and bring the population down even further

Edited by Pietrastor
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If the proposed system as on the PTS proves to be how things are when it goes live, I will be full 258 BIS geared out 10 minutes after 5.10 goes live.
Except you wouldn't because most of the gear pieces require Hero standing with the Ossus Reputation, which will take more than 10min to achieve, they also said during the 5.10 livestream that there will be a limit on the number of shards you can buy with UCs each week. They also said that each shard you buy per week increases the price of the next for that week. :D
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Except you wouldn't because most of the gear pieces require Hero standing with the Ossus Reputation, which will take more than 10min to achieve, they also said during the 5.10 livestream that there will be a limit on the number of shards you can buy with UCs each week. They also said that each shard you buy per week increases the price of the next for that week. :D

 

Is there an actual hard cap on UCs per week? I thought it was just going to increase by 500 every time but currently the first one is 500, the second 1000, and the third 1000. I didn't have enough to see what happens if you keep buying at 1000. I thought it'd be steeper every single time but now I don't know.

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Because getting entirelly separate set of gear just to be useful/not-burden in PVP is grindy & troublesome. Most of the casual PVPers will just drop, simple. And please, don't respond with "not that hard to get different set of gear and swap it". No, it's not, but it's still annoying (versus nearly the same PVE set as it is right now) and people just won't bother, like they didn't back in the day. PVP population and overall game population is low enough as it is, bringing back expertise will only seclude PVP experience and bring the population down even further

 

^^ this is exactly the pragmatic challenge with expertise on gear.

 

Does the PvP only crowd so easily forget about slow queues they have constantly griped about since basically launch, even on a busy server? You want fast queues and "fodder" for your PvP delight.. you need the casual crowd to queue.. and they are not going to grind out PvP gear when PvP is only a subset of their in game play.

Edited by Andryah
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^^ this is exactly the pragmatic challenge with expertise on gear.

 

Does the PvP only crowd so easily forget about slow queues they have constantly griped about since basically launch, even on a busy server? You want fast queues and "fodder" for your PvP delight.. you need the casual crowd to queue.. and they are not going to grind out PvP gear when PvP is only a subset of their in game play.

 

I don't remember having long queues last time we had PvP gear. It's possible I'm misremembering though. Only queue times I've ever had a problem with are ranked. But since it's just gear for PvP it doesn't have to be a long grind for it, and as long as all you have to do is unranked PvP it wouldn't be difficult to get at all. It is tedious to have multiple sets of gear but I still think it's a better solution then this current method.

 

Honestly I would have had no problem if they even just kept gear the way it is now on live, but just added a new tier to GC. Reduce the UC costs for 236-248 and then add 252 and 258 at a reasonable increased price + the 248 trade in. And then have 252 and 258 also drop from crates. Maybe make it a little easier to rank GC up too. I mean I know a lot of people hate GC but I think in its current form it's not TOO bad. At least it lets you choose what you want to do. Just give NiM raiders some cool cosmetic stuff to go after or something.

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^^ this is exactly the pragmatic challenge with expertise on gear.

 

Does the PvP only crowd so easily forget about slow queues they have constantly griped about since basically launch, even on a busy server? You want fast queues and "fodder" for your PvP delight.. you need the casual crowd to queue.. and they are not going to grind out PvP gear when PvP is only a subset of their in game play.

 

Just stop. Separate gear sets always worked fine in this game. Casuals always played pvp even without pvp gear. Bolster gave them 1936 expertise in their gear opposed to 2018 that a pvp gear set had. The difference back then was that even a casual could have a full set of pvp gear in a couple of weeks and be competitive. Queues were never slow on Red Eclipse where i played. Never. Also lowbies were a thing too. The game was more healthy back then.

Lastly, can we stop pretending that you don't need 2 sets of gear now? I mean, for pve you need 110 % accuracy so you need to swap 1-2 pieces of gear anyway. The amount of time that you needed to get a full pvp set back in the days is a fraction of the time that you need get 2 different pieces of gear with unassembled components today.

So...why having 2 separate gear sets is a bad thing again?

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Just stop. Separate gear sets always worked fine in this game. Casuals always played pvp even without pvp gear. Bolster gave them 1936 expertise in their gear opposed to 2018 that a pvp gear set had.

Only if they those casuals happened to have incredibly ****** PVE gear, didn't do any Operations etc. Or did you already forget there was a cap on rating of bolstered armor pieces? Most of the casuals didn't even know about it lol

 

Famous time - KOTFE gets released, players que for Forex/Pierce missions. It was a capital MESS. Players like Swtorista ("I got my bolster gear set just for companion missions, I tried not to be a burden in actual matches") were rare. Most just lined up in whatever they had on their chars.

Edited by Pietrastor
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Only if they those casuals happened to have incredibly ****** PVE gear, didn't do any Operations etc. Or did you already forget there was a cap on rating of bolstered armor pieces? Most of the casuals didn't even know about it lol

 

Famous time - KOTFE gets released, players que for Forex/Pierce missions. It was a capital MESS. Players like Swtorista ("I got my bolster gear set just for companion missions, I tried not to be a burden in actual matches") were rare. Most just lined up in whatever they had on their chars.

 

I still don't see how having 2 separate sets of gear would kill pvp. It takes literally 10" to swap gear. I've done it for as long as I've pvp and it never stopped me from queuing.

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I still don't see how having 2 separate sets of gear would kill pvp. It takes literally 10" to swap gear. I've done it for as long as I've pvp and it never stopped me from queuing.

It would't kill it, but it would hurt it. Population is low as it is and PVP is a SIDE EXPERIENCE in this game for most, thats the reality.

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Reduce the UC costs for 236-248 and then add 252 and 258 at a reasonable increased price + the 248 trade in. And then have 252 and 258 also drop from crates.

 

I'll second this. Where is the trade-in option to get 252/258 by trading in your 248 shells?

 

The new currency is annoying enough, but if they gave a cheaper option (say 1 MW crystal plus a 248 shell) for trading up then it would make the Ossus-only grind look a little less tedious.

 

I still wouldn't have full 248's for my secondary specs without trading in 236's and 242's. (To be clear: I only have 248's for the shared armor sets, and am still running with 246's for a lot of left sides. Grind is boring, boring, boring.)

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Only if they those casuals happened to have incredibly ****** PVE gear, didn't do any Operations etc. Or did you already forget there was a cap on rating of bolstered armor pieces? Most of the casuals didn't even know about it lol

 

Famous time - KOTFE gets released, players que for Forex/Pierce missions. It was a capital MESS. Players like Swtorista ("I got my bolster gear set just for companion missions, I tried not to be a burden in actual matches") were rare. Most just lined up in whatever they had on their chars.

 

Anything less than 200 rating gave you 1936 expertise while anything above it gave you less...for obvious reasons, stat pool increase duh.

Casuals never knew much about the game, what kind of argument is that? I remember sentinels equipping aim cause they thought it increased accuracy and they would aim better lol. Are you implying that the old gearing method was complicated and the one we have now and the one that's coming will be more simple???? Lmao.

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It would't kill it, but it would hurt it. Population is low as it is and PVP is a SIDE EXPERIENCE in this game for most, thats the reality.

 

You're greatly underevaluating the ability of casual players to swap gear. Sure some will complain in the beginning, but they'll eventually get over it. And for those who didn't get the memo and still come pvp in pve gear, the problem has always been around.

The thing is, putting expertise back in to the game would solve the big gearing problem we have now.

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I'll second this. Where is the trade-in option to get 252/258 by trading in your 248 shells?

 

The new currency is annoying enough, but if they gave a cheaper option (say 1 MW crystal plus a 248 shell) for trading up then it would make the Ossus-only grind look a little less tedious.

 

I still wouldn't have full 248's for my secondary specs without trading in 236's and 242's. (To be clear: I only have 248's for the shared armor sets, and am still running with 246's for a lot of left sides. Grind is boring, boring, boring.)

 

yeah rigjt. looking forward to the hundreds of threats from people complaining that they sold their 248 shells since there was no use for them prior 5.10.

 

the idea is good, but its simply not possible to implement that system without even more outrages.

 

there could be a way with turning in the 248 armorings, but i highly doubt the devs would/could change the current PTS system untill december.

Edited by mrphstar
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I bought the 258 belt with MWS on PTS and the mods definitely do require being placed into the same type of gear piece. I was only able to put it in another belt, and it even says on the mod that it's for a belt. Also the set bonus is the same as now but apparently they don't combine pieces. I had one piece of 240 set bonus gear and the 258 belt on and it didn't give me the 2-piece bonus. Not sure if that's a bug or if they're planning on giving new set bonus, but it wouldn't really make sense for it not to count the same if it's the same set bonus.

 

Has anyone been able to make a crafted piece? I'm curious if those mods are also slot bound.

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Tyth has only been killed this weekend so not sure if people got enough stuff to craft a piece.

 

Yeah... they need to put up a vendor on PTS for the materials so players can actually test crafting before it goes live.

 

That won't solve the materials cost curve issues that appear to be present on the crafted gear currently, and might even mask it some... but if we cannot fully explore crafted gear before the patch goes live.. that's a problem.

 

But it IS a phased PTS this time around.. so maybe they don't want crafted gear in the mix in testing on PTS yet... hence no materials vendors yet.

Edited by Andryah
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They should probably make the jawa scrap vendors give out free mats too. Just to make the testing easier.

I did multiple live > PTS character copies and have about 20k of each type of jawa scrap...but it was a long winded way to do it.

 

Also, the auto leveling terminal only takes your crew skills up to 500 (at least before Tuesday's patch anyway).

Edited by Darevsool
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