He is referring to PVE parsing...which is true. PVE Pyro Merc > PVE Pyro PT.

 

Like I said though, you simply cannot buff Flameburst without making PT Pyro over the top in PVP. Buff the DoT from Incendiary Missile for PT's, but not for Mercs.

They are going to have to buff some sort of damaging ability to help with PVE dps, there is pretty much no way around it. Powertech Pyro's dps in PVE is just too low to buff it through Set bonus' and rearranging abilities. I doubt they will buff the PT's IM damage and not the Mercs. Who knows at this point? lol.

Don't yell at me for this lol but, What if they Decrease the damage on Charged burst but buff different areas of pyro like the CGC dot. So then both Merc Pyro and Powertech Pyro will be at the same level with out having to buff a certain ability for each advanced class. Its not a bad idea if you think about it.

Tell me if I am being unreasonable. I just want to see the class succeed.

Let's not waste another question asking for a DCD that the devs have already said we won't get.

Issue 1: Vanguard or Commando Hammer Shot hits a target with 7 separate attacks. Powertech Rapid Shots hits a target with 5 separate attacks and Merc Rapid Shots hits a target with 10 separate attacks. I don't want to break out the math, but this gives Powertech's easily the lowest chance of any Pyro class to trigger CGC, and it gives PT tanks about a 10% lower chance to trigger IGC (lowering Heat Blast's CD) than Vanguard tanks. I would like to ask if they could set the cylinders up in a way that results in all of the final probabilities coming out the same.

As much as I know the community at large will disagree with asking this question because its not a "sexy" question and doesn't affect our pvp or pve dps but it needs to be brought up. A 10% chance on IGC is a very large issue and needs to be fixed.

AP could use a little bit of love without going over the top ridiculous, maybe something to help raise it's DPS a tad? The issue is this. AP can barely take a healer down, or any class getting occasional heals because of their lack of burst damage. Our highest damage is in a three second channel, and that's only 4k per second, which is average except for the fact that it's an AOE cone.

1. The prototype cylinder buff for high energy is a pathetic 1% damage increase. Can we please revisit that? Maybe 3% increase for fire effects or 2% all damage?

2. Now that the hybrid specs are dead with the loss of PFT, can we please get our bleed damage back on retractable blade?

AP could use a little bit of love without going over the top ridiculous, maybe something to help raise it's DPS a tad? The issue is this. AP can barely take a healer down, or any class getting occasional heals because of their lack of burst damage. Our highest damage is in a three second channel, and that's only 4k per second, which is average except for the fact that it's an AOE cone.

 

1. The prototype cylinder buff for high energy is a pathetic 1% damage increase. Can we please revisit that? Maybe 3% increase for fire effects or 2% all damage?

 

2. Now that the hybrid specs are dead with the loss of PFT, can we please get our bleed damage back on retractable blade?

I know at this point I'm probably sounding like the conductor on the A-hole Train, but AP burst is pretty damn good. You just have to realize that your burst is tied to your Shoulder Cannon cool down. After that, you are a utility player w/ great damage output.

But yes, Prototype Cylinder buff and DoT increase to Retractable Blade are both sustained damage increases, so I can agree with that.

I know at this point I'm probably sounding like the conductor on the A-hole Train, but AP burst is pretty damn good. You just have to realize that your burst is tied to your Shoulder Cannon cool down. After that, you are a utility player w/ great damage output.

 

But yes, Prototype Cylinder buff and DoT increase to Retractable Blade are both sustained damage increases, so I can agree with that.

Not for pvp they do not. If I can consistently get greater than 1500 dps in ap in warzones and arenas then none of these need any kind of buff. I wouldnt like to see that buffed if I played any other class.....no one can kill a good healer 1 v 1 in a warzone when they have all their cooldowns...it just doesn't happen....that problem is not unique to ap pt.

Please get off the pvp dps. FOCUS ON TANK AND PVE DPS ISSUES. Eg tank mez/more burst defense. Pve dps that WILL not affect pvp.....dot damage still affects pvp....so buffing it does not help imo

Let's jump off the train of giving the Combat Team idea's on how they should do there job, they very rarely ever listen.

Let's focus on writing question's on what we think are the weak point's for the class & why, and ask for there reason's for them & what can be done to correct these issues.

PvP - Shield Tech not stacking up to Assassin & Juggernaut in regards to Defensive's. With no push, a mez short & no 100% damage reduction CD.

PvE - Low DPS in both spec's.

Other - Gap Closer for DPS. Every other melee class has a much better gap closer then PT's.

the main problem I see with not increasing any dmg from any ability is, that only pve setbonus changes and heat management remain as options to improve PVE dps.

set bonus changes would need to be pretty significant and probably conflict with their design philosophies of how much impact they should have. they also only changed set bonuses in very few cases like the recent orbital strike adjustments. heck they even let most of them unchanged with the expansion.

Heat management is already very easy, especially in AP. any significant changes would more or less remove the resource outside of AOE situations, although that would fit their trend to reduce skill ceiilings in the patches since 2.0 in favor of reducing the possibilities to completely screwing you over if you made significant mistakes/don't know what you are doing.

I am not sure why everyone thinks giving PT dps jet charge would improve dps dramatically in PvE. Maybe like 20-50 dps? I just want to remind you that a) you should not be sitting at 30 meters, b) use RS or ED when you are more than 10 meter away.

Please focus on issues:

1- Tank effectiveness in PvP.

2- PvE damage.

the main problem I see with not increasing any dmg from any ability is, that only pve setbonus changes and heat management remain as options to improve PVE dps.

set bonus changes would need to be pretty significant and probably conflict with their design philosophies of how much impact they should have. they also only changed set bonuses in very few cases like the recent orbital strike adjustments. heck they even let most of them unchanged with the expansion.

Heat management is already very easy, especially in AP. any significant changes would more or less remove the resource outside of AOE situations, although that would fit their trend to reduce skill ceiilings in the patches since 2.0 in favor of reducing the possibilities to completely screwing you over if you made significant mistakes/don't know what you are doing.

In addition to what you mentioned regarding set bonuses, all PvE set bonuses can be used in PvP. If they have a set bonus per say increase flame burst damage by 15%, guaranteed AP will use it in PvP.

Not for pvp they do not. If I can consistently get greater than 1500 dps in ap in warzones and arenas then none of these need any kind of buff. I wouldnt like to see that buffed if I played any other class.....no one can kill a good healer 1 v 1 in a warzone when they have all their cooldowns...it just doesn't happen....that problem is not unique to ap pt.

 

Please get off the pvp dps. FOCUS ON TANK AND PVE DPS ISSUES. Eg tank mez/more burst defense. Pve dps that WILL not affect pvp.....dot damage still affects pvp....so buffing it does not help imo

Normally I'd agree with you Koozie, the problem is for AP that once you've blown explosive fuel and shoulder cannon to kill a healer, they're back 30 seconds later, and you can't remove them again for another minute and a half. This is especially true when they have a pet tank or even worse, another cross healer rubber banding their health.

The bleed nerf on retractable blade was unnecessary, and our HEGC prototype cylinder bonus is a laughingstock. Not that those will fix a burst problem, but it would alleviate some of the frustrations we have. I won't even get into the awkward flame burst spam rotation or the long CD on rail shot and immolate.

AP isn't pyro, if you added 1% extra damage to CGC, it would put Pyro over the top as it is.

Tanks haven't received any love since 2.0. It's far past time to look them over. They don't need any huge buffs, but they have some serious quality of life issues to address.

Normally I'd agree with you Koozie, the problem is for AP that once you've blown explosive fuel and shoulder cannon to kill a healer, they're back 30 seconds later, and you can't remove them again for another minute and a half. This is especially true when they have a pet tank or even worse, another cross healer rubber banding their health.

 

The bleed nerf on retractable blade was unnecessary, and our HEGC prototype cylinder bonus is a laughingstock. Not that those will fix a burst problem, but it would alleviate some of the frustrations we have. I won't even get into the awkward flame burst spam rotation or the long CD on rail shot and immolate.

 

AP isn't pyro, if you added 1% extra damage to CGC, it would put Pyro over the top as it is.

 

Tanks haven't received any love since 2.0. It's far past time to look them over. They don't need any huge buffs, but they have some serious quality of life issues to address.

No one is suppose to be able to solo a good healer and never suppose to be able to solo a healer with a tank and another cross healer. Man I racked 2200 dps in a game like that and a guildie in ap did 2400dps and didnt kill ****. AP CAN DO 2400 DPS IN SUCH SCENARIOS. That is absolutely insane. I restate. ..the point of dps is not to solo kill the other team..that is just absurd. When the othet team has 3 healers and a tank sometimes u have to face stuff doesn't die easy. Most gamez are not like that.

No one is suppose to be able to solo a good healer and never suppose to be able to solo a healer with a tank and another cross healer. Man I racked 2200 dps in a game like that and a guildie in ap did 2400dps and didnt kill ****. AP CAN DO 2400 DPS IN SUCH SCENARIOS. That is absolutely insane. I restate. ..the point of dps is not to solo kill the other team..that is just absurd. When the othet team has 3 healers and a tank sometimes u have to face stuff doesn't die easy. Most gamez are not like that.

I disagree. A good DPS should be able to beat a good healer. A good DPS should be able to get the healer to blow his best defensive cooldowns, while saving his own CC, pull, and best burst for when it counts.

I just read that Operative healers are about to eat a nasty nerf on their healing, I'm thinking that alone may alleviate the 'nobody dies' problem. We're doing a lot of talking about 'healers' here, but let's be honest. AP doesn't have as much of a problem with sorc and merc healers.

I disagree. A good DPS should be able to beat a good healer. A good DPS should be able to get the healer to blow his best defensive cooldowns, while saving his own CC, pull, and best burst for when it counts.

 

I just read that Operative healers are about to eat a nasty nerf on their healing, I'm thinking that alone may alleviate the 'nobody dies' problem. We're doing a lot of talking about 'healers' here, but let's be honest. AP doesn't have as much of a problem with sorc and merc healers.

I am going to agree here, an average dps should be able to stalemate a healer and a good dps should be able to kill one. Then again it truly matters on skill, a good dps and a good healer in a fight the dps should evenutually win. AP only has that burst every time shoulder cannon and explosive fuel is up.

Grapple: Pulls pull-able target to pull location, 10-30m range. If used on non pull-able target then you are pulled to target location, 10-30m range. 45sec cooldown.

The skill needed to use this to the full is high.

PvE: Gap Closer in Boss Fights, while still a pull on adds/trash.

PvP: Either a Gap Closer or Pull depending when you use it & on what target. It's situation dependent, getting pulled into being overextended is death, while getting pulled to stop the ball carrier in huttball is a score stopper.

Lads if u can kill my sorc healer in a 1 v 1 I would be so so so very surprised. I consider myself a very solid pt and cannot kill the best healers on the bastion in a 1 v 1. Noobs and average joes yes. Not exceptional players unless u get lots of lucky crits

And you don't see this as a bloody problem? The better player should win, and you're a hell of a lot more than a 'solid' PT.

Luck needs a hand sometimes, that's what explosive fuel is for. :-D

Lads if u can kill my sorc healer in a 1 v 1 I would be so so so very surprised. I consider myself a very solid pt and cannot kill the best healers on the bastion in a 1 v 1. Noobs and average joes yes. Not exceptional players unless u get lots of lucky crits

Are you trolling? Seriously, unless those healers are amazing (the players), then I don't see how it's hard... They have force management issues, so even if you can't beat them right away, you WILL win.

As for the questions, seriously we need more damage. PvP is fine, but we NEED better damage in PvE. It's a joke right now, second worst class. Best way to do it is to buff hybrid specs, as no one uses those in PvP due to lack of survivability and burst.

Are you trolling? Seriously, unless those healers are amazing (the players), then I don't see how it's hard... They have force management issues, so even if you can't beat them right away, you WILL win.

 

As for the questions, seriously we need more damage. PvP is fine, but we NEED better damage in PvE. It's a joke right now, second worst class. Best way to do it is to buff hybrid specs, as no one uses those in PvP due to lack of survivability and burst.

No im not trolling you sport. I would love to see you try to kill the best healers on bastion 1 v 1. I am 100% sure I could kite you for hours on sorc heals (my healing class). No dps can solo a very good healer....they simply have higher hps than you can do dps and lots of dcds....I dont know what type of derp scrubs u guys are playing against? And if you can already do it then no need for a change.

The purpose of this game is focus fire and cc and teamwork not soloing a healer...seriously this thread is becoming pathetic because people are looking for dps buffs so they can solo healers ***....address the appropriate issues. Tanking and pve damage...no more talk of solo healers or needing to drop healers with tanks and cross healing....I dont mean to sound rude but it comes across as really noob to me. If u can solo healer s great if u cant dont worry ur not suppose to be able to. Moving on...

No im not trolling you sport. I would love to see you try to kill the best healers on bastion 1 v 1. I am 100% sure I could kite you for hours on sorc heals (my healing class). No dps can solo a very good healer....they simply have higher hps than you can do dps and lots of dcds....I dont know what type of derp scrubs u guys are playing against? And if you can already do it then no need for a change.

 

The purpose of this game is focus fire and cc and teamwork not soloing a healer...seriously this thread is becoming pathetic because people are looking for dps buffs so they can solo healers ***....address the appropriate issues. Tanking and pve damage...no more talk of solo healers or needing to drop healers with tanks and cross healing....I dont mean to sound rude but it comes across as really noob to me. If u can solo healer s great if u cant dont worry ur not suppose to be able to. Moving on...

What you've described above is a stalemate. That PT you're kiting is preventing you from healing your team, and if you make one mistake, he'll get you. That's what is comes down to on PoT5, waiting for the healer to make a mistake.

How exactly do we increase PVE damage? Best thing I can think of is to allow prototype flame thrower for CGC cylinder. That way the PVE guys have their hybrid spec back, which is complete garbage for PVP. Basically since 2.6 many people have shelved their PVE PT toons.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the retractable blade and prototype cylinder for HEGC, because I still think it wouldn't be OP by far compared to assassins or gore spec maras.

Many people apparently want to ask the combat team to increase our sustained damage in PvE. I don't think that asking for specific buffs like more damage through HEC or RB is the way to ask for this. We can make such suggestions of course, but the core of such a question should be that we need more sustained damage in PvE, not one or two specific suggestions how to achieve that.

Good point, let the combat team work around how to achieve our PVE DPS increase without it affecting PVP, it is their job after all. We need merely state we're under-performing, back it up with numbers, and provide them with stuff we don't want to see. Hopefully that way, we won't be surprised when stuff we don't like pops up, because it won't pop up because we told them we better not see it. For exampe, if I see Pyro Mercs getting buffed because of buffs meant for us, I will ...probably not quit playing but damn it I'll be mad

Good point, let the combat team work around how to achieve our PVE DPS increase without it affecting PVP, it is their job after all. We need merely state we're under-performing, back it up with numbers, and provide them with stuff we don't want to see. Hopefully that way, we won't be surprised when stuff we don't like pops up, because it won't pop up because we told them we better not see it. For exampe, if I see Pyro Mercs getting buffed because of buffs meant for us, I will ...probably not quit playing but damn it I'll be mad

This is actually a really good point and after thinking about it, probably our best course. We need to stress that we are GREAT in PVP but we need PVE increases that won't change anything about us in PVP. I am saying all this from a DPS standpoint.

Are you trolling? Seriously, unless those healers are amazing (the players), then I don't see how it's hard... They have force management issues, so even if you can't beat them right away, you WILL win.

 

As for the questions, seriously we need more damage. PvP is fine, but we NEED better damage in PvE. It's a joke right now, second worst class. Best way to do it is to buff hybrid specs, as no one uses those in PvP due to lack of survivability and burst.

The 1v1 healer is going too far. Everyone has there opinion, but this is not the goal of this thread, and defiantly is not what the game is balanced around. Also, I do not want BW to buff hybrids. This always have unintended consequences that result in a nerf afterwards, and is impossible for devs to balance every spec and all possible hybrids, so making full specs optimal is always better.

Duran'del here:

I'm going to add something. While we are in a good place in PVP, PvE is another matter.

DPS(PvE):

We could use a leap, especially since our "Gap closed" consists of either using grapple or berserker-charging them and spamming basic attack. Jet Charge would now be baseline, alon with Grapple, but be trained at level 45 instead.

Free rail shot would be an awesome buff, and bleed damage from RB should be buffed, plus overall damage from IM.

Prototype Cylinders for HEGC needs to be increased to 2%. Also, HEGC should have another effect that would make it a unique stance:

Increases tech and ranged accuracy by 3%. When your attacks critically hit, your tech bonus damage is increased by 1%, and the Cool down of Immolate and Rail shot is decreased by 1 second. Stacks up to 5 times and lasts 15 seconds.

Tank(PvP and PvE):

Power techs are not viable for NiM. We lack the arsenal of DCDs that Juggernauts have and the sheer mitigation of Assassins. An idea for a new CD that would take the place of Jet Charge(This ability would now be baseline) is Shield Overload. This ability would last 15s, and give the following effects:

-Shield Chance Increased to 100%. Automatic criticals would deal normal damage.

-Internal damage decreased by 25%.

-Armor increased by 50% for 5s after Shield Overcharge ends. All armor-decreasing debuffs would be removed and none could be applied for the remaining time.

I cannot speak for PvP except that we deal pitiful damage.our hardest hitting ability hits like a wet noodle. The damage dealt decrease in IGC should be changed to 2%. The Prototype Cylinders talent would be changed to increasing our shield and absorb by 5%.

Duran'del here:

 

I'm going to add something. While we are in a good place in PVP, PvE is another matter.

 

DPS(PvE):

We could use a leap, especially since our "Gap closed" consists of either using grapple or berserker-charging them and spamming basic attack. Jet Charge would now be baseline, alon with Grapple, but be trained at level 45 instead.

 

Free rail shot would be an awesome buff, and bleed damage from RB should be buffed, plus overall damage from IM.

 

Prototype Cylinders for HEGC needs to be increased to 2%. Also, HEGC should have another effect that would make it a unique stance:

 

Increases tech and ranged accuracy by 3%. When your attacks critically hit, your tech bonus damage is increased by 1%, and the Cool down of Immolate and Rail shot is decreased by 1 second. Stacks up to 5 times and lasts 15 seconds.

 

Tank(PvP and PvE):

Power techs are not viable for NiM. We lack the arsenal of DCDs that Juggernauts have and the sheer mitigation of Assassins. An idea for a new CD that would take the place of Jet Charge(This ability would now be baseline) is Shield Overload. This ability would last 15s, and give the following effects:

 

-Shield Chance Increased to 100%. Automatic criticals would deal normal damage.

-Internal damage decreased by 25%.

-Armor increased by 50% for 5s after Shield Overcharge ends. All armor-decreasing debuffs would be removed and none could be applied for the remaining time.

 

I cannot speak for PvP except that we deal pitiful damage.our hardest hitting ability hits like a wet noodle. The damage dealt decrease in IGC should be changed to 2%. The Prototype Cylinders talent would be changed to increasing our shield and absorb by 5%.

PT tanks not viable for NiM? PT tanks everywhere laugh at you.

the idea for storm replacement is way OP also, be realistic, chances are in 3.0 we may gain another general def cd but atm we are fine.

We have absolutely no trouble with our PT tanks, if you seriously think that because we dont have as many def cds as a jugg or sin that makes us bad then L2P, passive mitigation for a PT is great if you want another cd use a clicky relic.

each tank class performs differently, so we cant have the passive mitigation a sin has but we dont take their spikes, we have better passive mitigation than a jugg so in return they have a better def cd suite. the thing about PTs def cd suite is the uptime you can have on them when rotating them all including adrenals.

As for dps, PTs still need some love, majority of the melee classes are pulling 10% more dps than the pure PT dps trees.

A quick way to fix PT dps is a roll back on all the nerfs we got because of the hybrid since its not viable anymore or at least rollback on "some" of the nerfs.

we have no "real" gap closer and perform equal lowest dps for melee in both dps specs, so something in the way of a gap closer of some kind would be nice.

our PT players in guild have been discussing lately about how a gap closer could be put into the dps specs.

A modification to and existing ability we have like how the threat dump for juggs was reworked could be possible.....

Storm - seems the obvious choice to make this a general powertech ability, but its so ingrained into the tank tree it shouldnt be touched.

For AP - modify torque booster to also increase the speed of hydraulic overrides up to 60%

For Pyrotec - modiify and existing in tree or add a new ability in tier 4 or 5 - grapple - if target is immune to pulls, you are pulled towards the target. otherwise target is pulled towards you.

i also think that. HEC needs some sort of change, atm it is only a 5% dmg increase, which is partly why you see the PT skank tank in pvp.