I believe in this cause, as tank your main goal is to protect the healer and a DPS would never take aggro off a tank if they would attack the same target as him (which is their responsibility).

Protecting the healer is more up to the DPS really ...

I don't think there's anything more pointless than guarding the healer. Most of the time when a healer gets aggro it's because some mobs are unnacounted for and he's only one having threat on those mobs. Lowering that threat won't do a single thing since he'll still have more threat than the others.

If the DPS make sure to target weak mobs first and to kill them quickly, then you have one happy healer. There's only so much a tank can do. If the number of enemies don't go down fast, he won't be able to keep stuff off the healer.

A DPS unleashing everything he has on a boss/champion and stealing aggro from the tank is much more problematic.

Nothing says "I'm a scrub" quite like putting guard on the healer.

Protecting the healer is more up to the DPS really ...

 

I don't think there's anything more pointless than guarding the healer. Most of the time when a healer gets aggro it's because some mobs are unnacounted for and he's only one having threat on those mobs. Lowering that threat won't do a single thing since he'll still have more threat than the others.

 

If the DPS make sure to target weak mobs first and to kill them quickly, then you have one happy healer. There's only so much a tank can do. If the number of enemies don't go down fast, he won't be able to keep stuff off the healer.

 

A DPS unleashing everything he has on a boss/champion and stealing aggro from the tank is much more problematic.

 

Nothing says "I'm a scrub" quite like putting guard on the healer.

While I agree with you, this debate will never end and any content hard enough for it to really matter will also need tanks that are experienced enough to already know it, so let's leave that for a different thread.

I believe in this cause, as tank your main goal is to protect the healer and a DPS would never take aggro off a tank if they would attack the same target as him (which is their responsibility). As long as I (tank) and the healer doesn't die, we'll be fine so

This needs addressing though since it often is a problem, DPS are supposed to kill from weakest to strongest to reduce DPS ASAP and keep them off the healer, while the tank goes from strongest to weakest making sure the golds are on him first before picking up any strong/normal/weak the DPS missed. Those weak mobs won't do any significant damage to the DPS killing them in the few seconds they take to die, and this way they're all kept off the healer and the tank can get more of it on him since he only needs 1-2 attacks or an aoe on each rather than having to compete with the DPS for aggro on a single gold while the rest goes unagressed and thus target the healer.

Duran'del here:

Last year, in a PUG Xeno run, I got a well-geared Merc with... no mods on her pistols.

Nothing on them. Just a +7 tech power crystal. It was wierd.

Level 41 Jedi Shadow tank decided to do Colicoid war games.

After waiting for 30 minutes for PUG i finally get matched with a sage healer trooper DPS and a Sentinel.

I inspect everyones gear and the trooper has several pieces with strength and endurance. I ask hm why and he replies "What do you mean?" I tell him troopers use aim not strength then he is quiet. We continue with the flashpoint and get to the turret part where the sentinel dies quickly but we manage it anyways.

I ask the trooper again why he uses strength gear and suddenly the healer leaves. I pull out Tharan for some healing and we proceed. When we get to the mobs the trooper CCs one and immediately after that the sentinel jumps on that mob. I tell him that he shouldn't attack CCed targets, no reply.

After wiping 5 times due to the sentinels constant attacking CCed target and the trooper with strength I leave and wait 90 minutes for another group. The run went smooth and everyone was happy.

Sorry guys, but I'd still prefer to see a DPS die from stupidity than my healer, so I'm guarding the healer until DPS show they know what they're doing and at the level I'm tanking (31) that's usually not the case. It reduces some of the damage and makes sure he doesn't get threat of mobs I've already hit, which no one else will attack.

I also can't say I've ever seen a DPS attack the weakest mob first, all they seem to die is do a struggle over who can take aggro from the Champion mob which the tank isn't targetting.

I just wish other tanks guarded me more when I'm healing as well, dieing each time on the first trash pack in Red Reaper gets boring after a while (though panic button saves me most of the time)

Ppl are so loveable when they are angry

Qued for hm 55 fb just bit ago and landed on mid mandalorian raiders. I was playing my toon dmgmerc so about 28 khp and they were half trough. After venting the mandalorians in the space i or someone agroed that turret mob and i got blown away.

38 hp op was agroing worse than the mobs and i told him to chill a bit ... well other dude decided to combat rez me and that got him even more agitated and ranting... ofc i was "retard" allready on that phase and as i again told him to chill a bit i got kicked out reason "retard"

I would think ppl nearly 38k hp would have played enough to control their temper in sense "its only hm fb guys and **** happens ..."

[...]

 

After wiping 5 times due to the sentinels constant attacking CCed target [...]

They all do this.

Why do they all, always do this?

So effin' annoying, especially when it's my Merc/Mando CC-ability's waaaaaaay-too-long cooldown they just wasted.

My healer friend and I did HM Mandalorian Raiders the other night, and when we zoned in we saw that the juggernaut tank had 30k health, which of course prompted an inspect. The guy was wearing DPS PVP gear, no defensive stats whatsoever. I wondered if perhaps he was a DPS who had mistakenly queued as tank, but no, he leaps in and starts tanking the mobs, and he's using his taunts. And the mobs are absolutely shredding him, my poor healer friend had a terrible time keeping him up. His tanking style included running away from the mobs and leading them into the rest of the group, and this was a bit of worry when we had Braxx being tanked in the middle of the room right next to the hounds. Thanks to good heals and the DPS getting the mobs down before they did too much damage, we got through it. But it was very odd!

I've had so many bad experiences with maras who think they are tanks, that I now cringe whenever I see one join a pug, especially if I am healing. Of course, if I am healing I am always very tempted to let them die if they pull before the tank...... Part of the problem with this kind of gung-ho DPS is that their personalities and interaction with the group often matches their aggressive inconsiderate playing style.

As for under 50 FPs, I'm never too fussed if people aren't geared properly or don't know their class yet. Those low level FPs tend to be good fun regardless, as long as the players have basic social skills.

healer, hit gf 55 HM

" Flashpoint already in progress " 99% of the case this isn't good. You all know it.

Hammer station, pug has arrived at the Riflor's Champions, with bonus boss unlocked, but skipped.

Shadow tank very squishy. After champions got defeated gear checked, had pvp Focus equipped. Asked him where is his shield, he giggled. Asked him again, and tried to give me the bs of the " can't see the off-hand " bug, to no avail. started vote kicking, dps didn't want to wait for another tank, hence, it failed. Tanks rants and moans and attempts to pull, gets himself and the dps killed. Got told to f-ourselves by said " tank " and leaves.

Pull out treek tank, but can't micromanage and heal with kreshan's sweeping gunfire thingy, specially with dps standing in the way of it.

guildy tank comes in and saves the day. yay.

Well I'll be honest, lvl 48 PT spec AP and I tend to que up as TNK or DPS. I know the spec trees are different but I usually keep my toon geared with high endurance and absorption stats.

Majority of the time we do very well but I did have one person who knew I wasn't spec correctly and asked. I just kinda laughed but I knew they were right. During lower lvl FPs I don't find it much of a problem but once you hit max and move for HMs you need to be in your specified tree.

I think most issues come from those stubborn players who refuse to take advice when it is offered. In my experience most players are very genuine/mentoring when they give advice. I have never understood why people get offended in this game when they are corrected.

DPS does tend to be a problem considering I used to play a Mara and yes I thought I was king of the world...boy was I wrong. It's nice to have a guild of professionals though who can help you learn the correct way to play at max lvl.

I really enjoy reading this thread. After thinking to myself, I've decided to post some of my experiences.

Before 2.4, (during 2.3, I think), I queued for a FP and got False Emperor. Normally when I pug for FPs, there's little talking outside of boss and trash mob tactics. In this group, one person tried to pretend to act like a ninja looter. He or she said something about 'ninjaing' the loot. They 'failed.' I believe he or she tried to lighten up the mood.

Another FE experience (maybe the same one?), I remember using an invisible blaster in the final cut scene as my Sith Assassin. I pointed it out and it was somewhat surprising.

Fast-forward to 2.4, I queued up for more FPs on my lvl 55 Sith Assassin tank. I got a HM FP (I don't remember the exact one). I had a lvl 55 sniper and 2 other guys (I can't remember their ACs) in the same group. When we completed the FP, we (the group) decided to queue for another FP instead of separating. We got FE HM and completed it. We enjoyed each other's company and friended each other.

A couple days later, I got placed in a Directive 7 HM with 2 of the same guys with a merc that I never met before. I was like deja vu for a little bit.

I never had that much fun in pugs. I'll look forward to pugging with those fun players again the next time I'm on the Ebon Hawk.

I really enjoy reading this thread. After thinking to myself, I've decided to post some of my experiences.

 

Before 2.4, (during 2.3, I think), I queued for a FP and got False Emperor. Normally when I pug for FPs, there's little talking outside of boss and trash mob tactics. In this group, one person tried to pretend to act like a ninja looter. He or she said something about 'ninjaing' the loot. They 'failed.' I believe he or she tried to lighten up the mood.

Another FE experience (maybe the same one?), I remember using an invisible blaster in the final cut scene as my Sith Assassin. I pointed it out and it was somewhat surprising.

 

Fast-forward to 2.4, I queued up for more FPs on my lvl 55 Sith Assassin tank. I got a HM FP (I don't remember the exact one). I had a lvl 55 sniper and 2 other guys (I can't remember their ACs) in the same group. When we completed the FP, we (the group) decided to queue for another FP instead of separating. We got FE HM and completed it. We enjoyed each other's company and friended each other.

A couple days later, I got placed in a Directive 7 HM with 2 of the same guys with a merc that I never met before. I was like deja vu for a little bit.

I never had that much fun in pugs. I'll look forward to pugging with those fun players again the next time I'm on the Ebon Hawk.

Do not underestimate the Finger Gun.

That would be an awesome blaster on the CM, along with an Arm cannon.

Do not underestimate the Finger Gun.

 

That would be an awesome blaster on the CM, along with an Arm cannon.

I wonder what stats it would have?

So, my first run on my new Jedi Shadow trying out the Esseles. I queued and got matched to a group already in progress. I zone in and they haven't even done the initial conversation. As I'm coming up there's a vote put up to kick me. Chat is scribbling along with one of the group members worried because there were apparently two healers in the group, prior to the kick that got me in I'm assuming. The one who voted to kick me is rambling about me queuing in as a tank but being in DPS stance. Go figure he'd have enough sense to check that but not get that the initial FP for both sides has been set for any type of group composition and that Shadows are set to both by default, similar to other dual specs. I explain this and am about to drop just because I want to avoid any nonsense, but I stick around.

So, about two minutes further in the one who initiated the kick quits out of nowhere. Nothing said, just leaves. Someone requeues us and we get a new member. There's some silliness in chat, but nothing crazy. We're almost through and right before the conversation that leads to heading back to the Esseles that newest member quits. Regardless, we finish and that's that.

A very strange introduction to what has to be the most boring, droll Flash Point in the entire game.

Do not underestimate the Finger Gun.

 

That would be an awesome blaster on the CM, along with an Arm cannon.

Is it wrong of me to imagine the Finger Gun from Dead Space 3? BANG!

Long story short. SM foundry, me (dps merc), guildie (heal merc), got assassin tank and another dps merc. Assassin tank doesn't taunt, doesn't seem to use discharge, doesn't guard, not sure if he used shock even though he got procs for it, doesn't use dark ward. Pug merc pulls before the tank, steals aggro from the tank (he was 6 levels above the tank and greatly geared, while the tank was...not), tries to cc when we only have 1 target we're all attacking, tries to cc HK-47, breaks cc when I'm ccing HKs adds and complains that my guildie is such a terrible healer that he must be in a dps spec (he's not the best healer, I admit it, but we never actually wiped, I have without any problems done heroic 4 quests with only the two of us, and he is heal specced.).

I was happy and surprised when we actually completed the fp.

I've had some really great experiences with group finder, but I think tonight I might have proved Murphy's law.

A guildie and I decided to do story mode Hammer Station with his mara and my sin tanking. Took a while to find a healer, but we finally did and were off.

On the first pull, the other dps, another mara, pulls without even waiting for me to get there. I politely ask him to let me pull, since I'm the tank. He responds by cussing me out and telling me that it's my fault I can't hold aggro, and that the healer is getting attacked. This makes me mad, but I think "Sticks and stones" and decide to give him another chance.

When he does it again, I warn him that if he does it again, I'll kick him. He starts swearing at me again, this time choosing to blame me for "taking a break before each pull". I guess this was his way of describing the fact that I took a second to make sure everyone was at full health and resource before I started a fight, as well as to survey the pack ahead and make sure I knew what I was getting into.

After that warning, he quieted down a bit and stopped pulling in front of me. For a while. When he started it again, I initiated the vote kick on the basis of "rude and won't let me do my job". It passed, and he left in a storm of curses. After he did, my guildie and the healer both thanked me for kicking him. We got a new dps, a sin this time, in under a minute. This guy also started pulling ahead of me, but stopped after I asked him not to. Somewhere during this time, my internet also decided to randomly disappear, but my guildie knew that this happens to me sometimes and kept them from kicking me till I got back on (it took less than 5 min)

We got to Vorgan, but before we could start, the healer DCs. We wait close to 10 minutes for him, then decide to kick him and get a new healer. While we're waiting, both the dps go for a smoke break. We get a new healer (operative), both the dps return in a timely fashion, and we're off. Everything goes without a hitch until we hit the final boss.

We can't beat him. I know the blame lies at least partly on my shoulders, I'm not doing the greatest tanking job of my career, but it couldn't have been all me. Still not sure what the problem was, though. After the third wipe, the sin dps leaves, and since the gf replacement is still on lockout from getting the healer, my guildie decides to hop on his lvl 49 BH and get us through. When he does that, however, it is discovered that we can't invite people to a group finder group. The problem is finally solved by having both the healer and myself exit area, disbanding the group, and reforming it. Boosted by my guildmate, the final boss goes off without a hitch (though I didn't get any loot from the flashpont, except some non-moddable gloves), and when I left to go eat dinner, the healer that they could swithch to their main so that the guildie's mara could finish the fp too.

Anyway, that whole trip made me appreciate loyal guildmates and patient healers. Though what really sucks is that I forgot to put the first dps on ignore before I logged out. It still boggles my mind how people think they can get away with that sort of thing. At least I could add the healer to my friends list, and the guildie and I will have some funny stories to tell.

OK, this one is a 16 man ops run, no group finder but definitely weird people. My guild was preparing to do an 8 man SM Dread Fortress shortly after it came out. We were down a tank so were happy to accept an offer from another guild to join them and make it a 16 man run. We join their Teamspeak and find that they are a very social lot, there is much chatter from the guild members including a few who weren't in the ops with us, and a seeming lack of interest in actually getting the op started. Their ops leader sounds a bit drunk, and has much to share with us about his personal life. With a lot of prompting he starts the op and we get through Nefra OK.

By the time we get to Commander Draxus, the ops leader is really slurring his words and has become very loud, and is keen to share with us again his personal life story. We have tremendous difficulty with Draxus, there are people running all over the place, people aren't interupting or cleansing, and we wipe several times. Between each wipe, the increasingly drunk ops leader regales us with more of the same stories, and seems to have forgotten we are in an op. The more sober and experienced members of the ops group are pointing out why we are wiping, and offering strategies to avoid it, but no no, we are told that the reason we are wiping is because the ops leader has not brought his uber DPS toon into the group! Off he goes to save the day, switching to this epic toon, travelling to Oricon, then riding across the planet through hostile mobs because he hadn't unlocked the speeder..... He eventually arrives, but is distracted from the fact that there are many impatient people wanting to get on with op by the arrival in Teamspeak of a long lost guildie. This guildie decides he really needs to have a deep and meaningful with the ops leader, and doesn't seem too fussed by the other people in voice listening in as he shares intimate details about his personal health problems.

At that point, we left. I am not sure why we stayed as long as we did.

I just had a Kaon HM Pug run with an Assassin tank who used PVP DPS gear and a focus. The only thing he did right was being in tank stance. While he did try to tank all the enemies he never used skills like Discharge or Wither...which he apparently didn't have anyway since he was clearly DPS specced. We wiped two times at the bonus boss and one time at the final boss. The rest of the team wasn't geared very well either.

Pfah, HM flashpoint..

during gree event, on my marauder I joined Xeno SM and HM in pvp gear (only gear he has )

Thanks to augments he's at 30k health,

only thing I do is swap one set of trousers, and an implant for some accuracy.

The trousers and implant I actually got from the operation.

With stim, I still think I'm pulling my weight, since I'm often kiting the targeted mob (which means I pulled threat.. derp tank), or, as melee dps, clicking the buttons etc, with a ranged dps standing right in front of them.

Just before we started a HM someone else noticed one merc has 15k health. That was his best gear. Auwch.

Maybe if the group was overgeared, but with tanks with only 33k health, dps sub 30k etc.. er no.

I did have one derp moment of my own though: I'm used to Xeno looking green and friendly, I derp tossing snowballs around etc, running around like an idiot. (gotta pas time) Then I notice I can actually dual saber throw. Me thinking I've spotted a bug, I immediately throw. I didn't realize someone had already clicked the panel of course. However, some people were still AFK. It was HM. Being ever the alert one, I of course immediatly activated stealth, as chaos ensued.

Woops.

So, just to not confuse your local aggro-seekers, thank you for not activating the boss before the /rc

Leveling a vigilance guardian, doing the maestrom prison fp: tank is guardian too.

On one of the bossfights with a pet, I deliberately dont use saber throw/ sundering strike on the boss.

At the end of the fight, boss is still not 'armor-reduced'. (tank stayed on boss entire time. Moreover, at this level force sweep as tank should inflict 20% armor penalty)

In addition, tank mostly tunnels etc, got himself killed earlier on the laser-eye dude (no biggie, swap to soresu, fight takes a bit longer).

Anyway, after noticing the lack of armor pen, I type it into chat. I ask what his typical rotation is, that in soresu hilt strike does more threat and ask if he is using his taunts. (was stealing aggro from only mob he was hitting after other mobs were dead.. )

Reply: I simply use whatever is available.

I cringe a bit inwardly.

How do you get to level 37 without realizing sundering strike is far better than simply strike..

Healer was decent though, as long as I kept mobs of him.

Final bos, I say gotta LoS and move up.

Question back: which is it? LoS or move up?

I reply both .

Of course guardian tank slowly slogs through the center, and again after Kilran repositions.

Guardian tank dies, we beat boss, oh well.

Just before we started a HM someone else noticed one merc has 15k health. That was his best gear. Auwch.

Maybe if the group was overgeared, but with tanks with only 33k health, dps sub 30k etc.. er no.

Gree has been interesting this time round, I am guessing because of the holidays there are a lot more people playing right now and a lot of them are doing content they aren't necessarily ready for because the rewards for doing it are so appealing. There's usually a bit of a wait while forming up for Xeno so out of boredom I inspect people's gear and achievements. So many people with 0% ops achievements lining up to do a hard mode. People in green / blue gear with very low health, I am not sure if they believe that's sufficient or if they aware it's a problem but are expecting to be carried through. Can't carry anyone through if half the group are completely inexperienced and unaware of the basic mechanics, and don't even have gear appropriate for the story mode.

On a positive note the holidays seem to have got a lot of people doing the SM and classic ops for the first time, which is great. I grouped up with a random pug hoping for a quick S&V weekly. I noticed they were all a bit undergeared to be able to race through it as most groups are able to these days, which was fine, we've all been there and you don't exactly need best in slot for SMs. However, as it turned out I was the only one in the group who had completed the op before! A couple of the guys said they had tried to group for it in the past but had been kicked for never having done it before, or for making mistakes. So I stayed and we got through Dash'roode after some interesting difficulties - I've never seen the boss tanked half way across the desert before and I am not sure where they were trying to take the shield. Very amusing. Titan enraged before we were even close to bringing him down so after a few wipes we quit. But their enthusiasm made it a fun op, hope they all keep going with it.

OK, this one is a 16 man ops run, no group finder but definitely weird people. My guild was preparing to do an 8 man SM Dread Fortress shortly after it came out. We were down a tank so were happy to accept an offer from another guild to join them and make it a 16 man run. We join their Teamspeak and find that they are a very social lot, there is much chatter from the guild members including a few who weren't in the ops with us, and a seeming lack of interest in actually getting the op started. Their ops leader sounds a bit drunk, and has much to share with us about his personal life. With a lot of prompting he starts the op and we get through Nefra OK.

 

By the time we get to Commander Draxus, the ops leader is really slurring his words and has become very loud, and is keen to share with us again his personal life story. We have tremendous difficulty with Draxus, there are people running all over the place, people aren't interupting or cleansing, and we wipe several times. Between each wipe, the increasingly drunk ops leader regales us with more of the same stories, and seems to have forgotten we are in an op. The more sober and experienced members of the ops group are pointing out why we are wiping, and offering strategies to avoid it, but no no, we are told that the reason we are wiping is because the ops leader has not brought his uber DPS toon into the group! Off he goes to save the day, switching to this epic toon, travelling to Oricon, then riding across the planet through hostile mobs because he hadn't unlocked the speeder..... He eventually arrives, but is distracted from the fact that there are many impatient people wanting to get on with op by the arrival in Teamspeak of a long lost guildie. This guildie decides he really needs to have a deep and meaningful with the ops leader, and doesn't seem too fussed by the other people in voice listening in as he shares intimate details about his personal health problems.

 

At that point, we left. I am not sure why we stayed as long as we did.

Oh dear... sounded like a lot of fun, eh?

Had a most interessting Cademimu run today.

I was queueing together with a sorcdps guildy on my lowbe marauder sartunorin for cademimu SM. After sometime we got a pop and got ourselves a merchealer and powertechtank.

Everything went pretty smooth till the 1st bossfight. For some reason the tank ignored the droid and kept attacking the handler. When the droid got activated I noticed my guildy was positioned very badly and got cought by the box where you put the droid in. I guess that either the powertech was very good geared or my guildy helped him out since after some time the handler died which let to the droid exploding.

After the bossfight the tank typed in chat: "Nope" and he left the group. My guess is that he was a pvp'er (he couldnt stop moving around an add for 1 second during trashpulls) and he felt the group wasnt up to the task or something. We pulled out Khem and continued on our merry way.

Just before the wookyboss a jugg 'tank' joined in. When I inspected him I noticed he had only dps-gear equiped. I know around lv 30-ish there isnt much real tank gear, but my lowbees never wore critrating and high mainstat gear. After we succesfully killed the last boss a heavy armor piece dropped with high strengh on it. That moment **** hitted the fan and the juggtank started a debate with me

jugg: come on ..... its heavy armor dude

me: lol... dude, I rip out the mods/armoring/enhancements

jugg: ffs

me: we both can use it and you are a tank. This was a dps piece

jugg: u use medium armor and I dont care that u rip out mods. Dont need on armor u cant use

me: I can use it

jugg: <censored 18+ cursing>

The part which most intrigued me was that the juggtank got so angry about a DPS-piece which gimps his job of tanking. I could fully understand it if he was a juggdps (I would still roll need on the piece since I always ripout all pieces).

Duran'del here:

Czerka labs HM seems to hate me.

Tank is over geared, but EXTREMELY cocky. We kill the droid with no problems, when we get to the Security Chief, we wipe. Tank blames it on my gear(Campaign gear with some 162 and 156 pieces). I tell him its not my gear, and we kill the boss. As spoons as we get to the experiments, tank leaps in, not letting us regen. DPS died because of this. Tank doesn't even let us CC. When we get to Rams us, we wipe because tank releases all the adds, and I can't heal through the damage. DPS asks tank to play it safe. Tank ignores him and does it again. We wipe for the third time. We rezz, tank plays it safe, we kill the boss, and Tank gets ignored.