At least we have some new voices in this discussion. Trouble is I've had to ignore three of the old ones that say the same thing over and over and over and over..... We all get it. You're never going to change your tune. And every one of these threads deteriorate into the same people going at each other over and over and over and over...

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......

You'd think that by now they would realize there's no point feeding the trolls, the ones who, as you said, say the same thing over and over...it does get old. I've never had anyone here on my ignore list, but there's one troll in particular that I'm close to adding to it.

And I will repeat myself, if people don't like populated servers then honestly they should not be playing an MMO. MMO's are meant to have high player population.

This statement sort of equates to saying "Your playstyle is wrong and mine is right". That is what is contributing to the toxicity that is developing and inhibiting any real discussion on how to move the game into the future. Its also why you see the repeats on protecting peoples playstyles that others feel are inhibiting the discussion. The game is an MMORPG and has both MMO elements and RPG elements. Neither playstyle is better than the other. Lets stop saying (from both sides) my playstyle is the most important and try and find the balance.

This statement sort of equates to saying "Your playstyle is wrong and mine is right". That is what is contributing to the toxicity that is developing and inhibiting any real discussion on how to move the game into the future. Its also why you see the repeats on protecting peoples playstyles that others feel are inhibiting the discussion. The game is an MMORPG and has both MMO elements and RPG elements. Neither playstyle is better than the other. Lets stop saying (from both sides) my playstyle is the most important and try and find the balance.

Thing is though, one of the playstyles needs support and the other doesn't. If someone is on a dead server and wants to play with others, there isn't much they can do except transfer off of it completely. If someone is on a populated server and wants to be isolated they can go to their stronghold, switch instances, put enough people on their ignore list, turn off chats, turn down the display limits on their graphical settings, and just not run any group content.

One style needs catering and support to even be possible. The other needs people to inconvenience themselves for 5 seconds. So anyone who's against mergers or transfers simply due to liking isolation isn't making much sense; they can remain isolated on a populated server, but groupers can't group on a dead server.

Thing is though, one of the playstyles needs support and the other doesn't. If someone is on a dead server and wants to play with others, there isn't much they can do except transfer off of it completely. If someone is on a populated server and wants to be isolated they can go to their stronghold, switch instances, put enough people on their ignore list, turn off chats, turn down the display limits on their graphical settings, and just not run any group content.

The thing is being isolated is not what people are talking about when they raise this concern. A lot of missions in this game are open world where there is a competition for objectives. High population does in fact impact the players running missions. Group players are saying it takes to long to get their content which is a legitimate concern. It is just as legitimate that people running missions don't want to stand in line waiting to get the objectives to complete their missions or have someone ninja the objective out from under them while they are fighting the mob in front of it. The only thing you listed that takes care of that is switching instances. Most planets, even on high population servers, only have one active instance. That is something that could be changed and has been suggested by the people concerned about this. Reduce the planetary limit for creating a new instance to a lower value (say 50). That however requires a coding change and is not quickly implemented.

The thing is being isolated is not what people are talking about when they raise this concern. A lot of missions in this game are open world where there is a competition for objectives. High population does in fact impact the players running missions. Group players are saying it takes to long to get their content which is a legitimate concern. It is just as legitimate that people running missions don't want to stand in line waiting to get the objectives to complete their missions or have someone ninja the objective out from under them while they are fighting the mob in front of it. The only thing you listed that takes care of that is switching instances. Most planets, even on high population servers, only have one active instance. That is something that could be changed and has been suggested by the people concerned about this. Reduce the planetary limit for creating a new instance to a lower value (say 50). That however requires a coding change and is not quickly implemented.

There's a risky way around that restriction though. You can just switch to PvP. On almost any planety that's not Gree Event Ilum, that's basically a guarantee that you'll be the one amongst like 2 or 3 people on the instance. And since it's segregated from PvE, you're never at risk of the instance shutting down.

I do have a question for the RPers...

As long as you're segregated on your own server, doesn't that impact your ability to draw in new RPers? If it were an instance that I could load into, like a PvP instance, wouldn't that increase exposure to RP and potentially enlarge the RP playerbase?

I understand the fear of griefing...but that's why I think we need better policing of chat...I just don't quite understand how isolating RPers helps RP grow and attract new RPers. It doesn't effect me in the least, just as many people despise PvP, I have no desire to RP...but I would be curious to observe an RP server/setting...I just won't create or move a character to experience it.

So...how does segregating your community help in the long run exactly?

There's a risky way around that restriction though. You can just switch to PvP. On almost any planety that's not Gree Event Ilum, that's basically a guarantee that you'll be the one amongst like 2 or 3 people on the instance. And since it's segregated from PvE, you're never at risk of the instance shutting down.

True, but as you say it is risky and people do that but its a low risk now because of the "low" number of people on planets. There's not many people there now because the planetary populations are low enough that competition for objectives is not an issue but would increase as competition increases. Right now its not "profitable" for PVP griefers to hunt 2 or 3 people in those zones. If you would substantially increase the server population, how long before it would become "profitable". What if there were 20 people on that instance, or 30, or whatever. I know PVP griefers are a minority but all it really takes is one (sort of like toxic chat trolls - maybe not many on Harb but it really ruins the experience when one is around). One could say that moving off an underpopulated server to one with a higher pop entails no risk. If Bioware would implement a period of free transfers, would that satisfy the people who want to be on higher population servers (or maybe give every new character one free server transfer - though that would be riskier with gold spammers about)?

Back during the DvL event I levelled a toon on a RP server, the people were pretty friendly and it was very different from my server TRE. Honestly, if I was an RP'r I wouldn't want to merge either, it's like dumping trash into your own backyard.

That aside, nobody on the RP server wants to PvP and flash points take a lot longer too, suggesting to skip dialouge in FP's you've seen isn't appreciated either and they"in my experience" really won't. Merging an RP server with the rest won't make a difference, they're not interested in anything but RP'ing.

I even asked a handful of people what people usually do around here and they all explained my experience, either RP or nothing really.

If a merge ever happens, they should be left out, they don't want to be merged with us and it won't give us any more realistic players to play with.

Anyway that's my experience. Leave the RP'rs alone!!

Back during the DvL event I levelled a toon on a RP server, the people were pretty friendly and it was very different from my server TRE. Honestly, if I was an RP'r I wouldn't want to merge either, it's like dumping trash into your own backyard.

That aside, nobody on the RP server wants to PvP and flash points take a lot longer too, suggesting to skip dialouge in FP's you've seen isn't appreciated either and they"in my experience" really won't. Merging an RP server with the rest won't make a difference, they're not interested in anything but RP'ing.

 

I even asked a handful of people what people usually do around here and they all explained my experience, either RP or nothing really.

If a merge ever happens, they should be left out, they don't want to be merged with us and it won't give us any more realistic players to play with.

 

Anyway that's my experience. Leave the RP'rs alone!!

~cries profusely because he misses his (now dead) RP-PvP home server~

I don't understand what's so dificult in creating a new toon in a new server.

With server merges you lose your legacy, your character name, your guilds... all that. The same as if you create a new toon there.

There are people who chose their servers for a reason. I, for example, chose an RP server, for what it offers. But I also have a couple toons in a PVE server, when I want to focus more on such content.

Asking for a server merge is ultimatly selfish, because you force all the other players to start again, when they're perfectly happy with their server's population. If you're not happy with yours, then create a new toon in a new one. I'm completly against merging servers.

Thing is though, one of the playstyles needs support and the other doesn't. If someone is on a dead server and wants to play with others, there isn't much they can do except transfer off of it completely. If someone is on a populated server and wants to be isolated they can go to their stronghold, switch instances, put enough people on their ignore list, turn off chats, turn down the display limits on their graphical settings, and just not run any group content.

 

One style needs catering and support to even be possible. The other needs people to inconvenience themselves for 5 seconds. So anyone who's against mergers or transfers simply due to liking isolation isn't making much sense; they can remain isolated on a populated server, but groupers can't group on a dead server.

Go to their stronghold? That makes it difficult to do any "content", does it not?

Switch instances? Not possible most of the time, as there is all too often only one instance.

Ignore players? Ignore lists are only so big, and ignoring players in chat does nothing about players "stealing" open world objectives or the increased competition for those open world objectives.

Turn off chat? Why should Johnny have to turn off chat? Turning off chat also does nothing about players "stealing" open world objectives or the increased competition for those open world objectives.

Turn down graphics settings? Why should Johnny have to turn down any graphics settings? Turning down graphics settings also does nothing about players "stealing" open world objectives or the increased competition for those open world objectives.

Both styles need support, not just one or the other.

I do have a question for the RPers...

 

As long as you're segregated on your own server, doesn't that impact your ability to draw in new RPers? If it were an instance that I could load into, like a PvP instance, wouldn't that increase exposure to RP and potentially enlarge the RP playerbase?

 

I understand the fear of griefing...but that's why I think we need better policing of chat...I just don't quite understand how isolating RPers helps RP grow and attract new RPers. It doesn't effect me in the least, just as many people despise PvP, I have no desire to RP...but I would be curious to observe an RP server/setting...I just won't create or move a character to experience it.

 

So...how does segregating your community help in the long run exactly?

I don't mind the new people observing. My problem is not so much the "smart mouths" as I can ignore them. It is the ones that emote specific things that I have a problem with. I am patient up to a point but some people emotes can be a bit much. I love to have new people who are genuinely interested in watching.

In addition some of us actually roleplay in operations and flashpoints so my problem is when you join a group like that doing the roleplay in a flashpoint or operation you should be accepting of it especially if you are the only one not roleplaying and the rest are. I think most of us do not have a problem with having others on the server but having the server known as a roleplay server is a plus as we can tell them look you are on a roleplay server, while you are not expected to roleplay, you will have to accept that others do and you should be respectful of that.

Really, what is the problem with RP'ers keeping their own server(s) in case of merged servers? Can someone, for once, explain to me why players who DO NOT WANT to participate in PvP/OPs/raiding should be forced to move to a merged server? How will this add to the number of players available for PvP or group content? Such a move will only destroy the enjoyment of the game for the players who are forcibly moved.

I can only hope that Bioware (when the time comes) will consider the arguments of RP'ers (who, in general, seem to be happy enough where they are) in this thread.

Again, it is NOT the RP community that is asking for a server merge. There are several reasons for why they do not.

Go to their stronghold? That makes it difficult to do any "content", does it not?

 

Switch instances? Not possible most of the time, as there is all too often only one instance.

 

Ignore players? Ignore lists are only so big, and ignoring players in chat does nothing about players "stealing" open world objectives or the increased competition for those open world objectives.

 

Turn off chat? Why should Johnny have to turn off chat? Turning off chat also does nothing about players "stealing" open world objectives or the increased competition for those open world objectives.

 

Turn down graphics settings? Why should Johnny have to turn down any graphics settings? Turning down graphics settings also does nothing about players "stealing" open world objectives or the increased competition for those open world objectives.

 

Both styles need support, not just one or the other.

If Open World objectives being "stolen" is such a big problem, what exactly is Bioware supposed to do about it....

Open World objectives being stolen causes a respawn timer's worth of inconvenience.

Group content is literally impossible in every sense of the word if you play on one of the dead servers (like the old PvP servers).

In an inconvenience vs game-breaking problem situation, it's pretty clear one of the styles should be getting a lot more catering.

Back during the DvL event I levelled a toon on a RP server, the people were pretty friendly and it was very different from my server TRE. Honestly, if I was an RP'r I wouldn't want to merge either, it's like dumping trash into your own backyard.

That aside, nobody on the RP server wants to PvP and flash points take a lot longer too, suggesting to skip dialouge in FP's you've seen isn't appreciated either and they"in my experience" really won't. Merging an RP server with the rest won't make a difference, they're not interested in anything but RP'ing.

 

I even asked a handful of people what people usually do around here and they all explained my experience, either RP or nothing really.

If a merge ever happens, they should be left out, they don't want to be merged with us and it won't give us any more realistic players to play with.

 

Anyway that's my experience. Leave the RP'rs alone!!

That would depend. Our guild does pvp, (well my boyfriend lol), flashpoints, uprisings, and sometimes an operation but we also rp in those. We do not just stand around and do nothing but since we have a guild we normally group with each other. Occasional when we need an extra person we will join group pickup to get another person but we do like the cut scenes unless we have seen then a million times but then we ask if everyone has seen them and if we all have then we will skip them but if one person hasn't then we do not skip the cutscenes even if it is just one person. We want the other person to be able to see the cutscenes and we don't worry over a few extra minutes.

If Open World objectives being "stolen" is such a big problem, what exactly is Bioware supposed to do about it....

 

Open World objectives being stolen causes a respawn timer's worth of inconvenience.

 

Group content is literally impossible in every sense of the word if you play on one of the dead servers (like the old PvP servers).

 

In an inconvenience vs game-breaking problem situation, it's pretty clear one of the styles should be getting a lot more catering.

One suggestion for dealing with it was reducing instance size, but as I said, that is a coding issue that won't be solved quickly. With the reduced populations now it is not as big a problem as it was when server populations were much higher. Creating instanced areas for more mission objectives could also be done but once again that is a coding change that is not quick to implement.

Respawn timers for some are quite extensive. To give an example maybe people are familiar with since there was a whole thread dedicated to it at one point. The bonus mission in the Heroic Face Merchants on Coruscant is kill 15 Black Sun. The area that is applied to contains 15-20 NPCs that count. On a typical weeknight, even on JC which some would classify a low pop server, there are 4-6 people (most of which refuse to group up) in that area waiting for the mobs to respawn (respawn timer there is something like 2 or 3 minutes). If you are lucky you can get 3 or 4 NPCs per respawn cycle before they are all gone again. So it can easily take you in excess of 20 minutes just to gather those up assuming you are lucky enough to get one set in each spawn cycle. That is one where all of the spawns are close together. Now think about the slave collar mission on Coruscant where the objectives are spread all over a fairly large map and you have to run around trying to find one that hasn't been taken. I have heard a number of people complain that waiting more than 5 minutes for a WZ pop is unacceptable but these same people are fine with someone waiting 15-20 minutes to complete one mission objective (and many missions are affected by high population). Another that comes to mind is Mutations on Taris (the respawn timer there I think is in excess of 5 minutes and requires you to kill 6 - I think - in an area containing only 7). While the heroics are "optional" content they are illustrative to this discussion because due to the CXP payout they are currently heavily played and thus are somewhat indicative of what a higher population server would experience with open world objectives.

As far as the old PVP servers go. I don't recall anyone saying these should not be merged. It's possible but I don't recall it and those that are "opposed", and I'll use that term lightly, to server merges on those servers have grave concerns about assets as has been said many times so I will not go into it further.

If Open World objectives being "stolen" is such a big problem, what exactly is Bioware supposed to do about it....

 

Open World objectives being stolen causes a respawn timer's worth of inconvenience.

 

Group content is literally impossible in every sense of the word if you play on one of the dead servers (like the old PvP servers).

 

In an inconvenience vs game-breaking problem situation, it's pretty clear one of the styles should be getting a lot more catering.

I have a trick with open world objectives, I send my companion to fight and I go click the item. The only time I have a problem is the heroic on Balmorra with that one bug but by the time I have killed the bug the console is ready. Most of the time I have to laugh at the people when my companion is fighting and I click the item I need. It is so funny to watch them thinking they were going to get the item and then I click on it.

The people saying RP will get killed if they do server merges are VERY wrong. How does a larger playerbase on a server equal RP dying off? It makes no sense, because a larger playerbase will mean more people to recruit to RP guilds or to enlist in RP events.

 

And I will repeat myself, if people don't like populated servers then honestly they should not be playing an MMO. MMO's are meant to have high player population.

It has been repeated in at least a dozen posts on this single thread why merging traditionally RP servers with non-RP servers would stifle and kill off the RP community. Please don't make us keep repeating ourselves instead of availing yourself of the opportunity to read what multiple people have already explained.

Thing is though, one of the playstyles needs support and the other doesn't. If someone is on a dead server and wants to play with others, there isn't much they can do except transfer off of it completely. If someone is on a populated server and wants to be isolated they can go to their stronghold, switch instances, put enough people on their ignore list, turn off chats, turn down the display limits on their graphical settings, and just not run any group content.

 

One style needs catering and support to even be possible. The other needs people to inconvenience themselves for 5 seconds. So anyone who's against mergers or transfers simply due to liking isolation isn't making much sense; they can remain isolated on a populated server, but groupers can't group on a dead server.

Ebon Hawk is not only an RP server, but it is the server with the second highest population in NA. This is not a case of 'well, you're on a dead server so that proves your playstyle doesn't need support'. There are a lot more RPers out there than you are giving credit for! Stop acting like our populated server doesn't exist!

The people saying RP will get killed if they do server merges are VERY wrong. How does a larger playerbase on a server equal RP dying off? It makes no sense, because a larger playerbase will mean more people to recruit to RP guilds or to enlist in RP events.

 

And I will repeat myself, if people don't like populated servers then honestly they should not be playing an MMO. MMO's are meant to have high player population.

Because some idiots want to merge Ebon Hawk with Harbinger when there is no need to do so. And forgive me I made a toon on Harbinger and tried to rp and was told to shut up and not very politely. When you merge a RP server like Ebon Hawk with a server like Harbinger RP are told to shut up and go away and told that it is not a RP server. Yes I do know what I am talking about, that has happened before

Furthermore, you seem to think Roleplayers want to recurit everyone. They don't. Roleplay guilds are normally very selective as the person or persons coming into a roleplay guild are expected to respect the roleplayers. That doesn't mean they have to roleplay but they have to be willing to accept that guild chat can and has been used for roleplaying. While it is nice to have more people it is not always the best idea just to recruit people without some sort of selective screening for a roleplay guild.

Furthermore, there is no reason to merge Ebon Hawk, we have a good population.

I don't mind the new people observing. My problem is not so much the "smart mouths" as I can ignore them. It is the ones that emote specific things that I have a problem with. I am patient up to a point but some people emotes can be a bit much. I love to have new people who are genuinely interested in watching.

 

In addition some of us actually roleplay in operations and flashpoints so my problem is when you join a group like that doing the roleplay in a flashpoint or operation you should be accepting of it especially if you are the only one not roleplaying and the rest are. I think most of us do not have a problem with having others on the server but having the server known as a roleplay server is a plus as we can tell them look you are on a roleplay server, while you are not expected to roleplay, you will have to accept that others do and you should be respectful of that.

As expected, you have a great reply Casi...thank you!!!

I can see where RPing in a "speed run" FP would get a bit annoying for non-RPers, and conversely, where non-RPers would be equally annoying. What if we added that as a "check box" for GF's and such? Meaning, if you check this box, you're agreeing not to interfere with RP and are expected to be respectful of those who are. It doesn't mean you're participating, but you're agreeing that you're not going to purposefully interfere (Bioware would need to back this up with actions too).

Alternatively, what if RP had their own instance and secluded chat from the rest of the server? In the RP instance, you would only see chat from that instance, not like it is now where you see everything...would that help? Basically, you'd be on the same server as others, but you'd be separated by your instance choice. If you elected to go to the PvP or PvE instance, you'd see that chat but not RP chat.

There are ways for us to all coexist that don't include having your own server, which I understand the desire for, but I don't believe that's the best way to handle consolidation at this point. I'm fine if it is kept separate, but I think long term, a serious reduction is needed.

I do have a question for the RPers...

 

As long as you're segregated on your own server, doesn't that impact your ability to draw in new RPers? If it were an instance that I could load into, like a PvP instance, wouldn't that increase exposure to RP and potentially enlarge the RP playerbase?

 

I understand the fear of griefing...but that's why I think we need better policing of chat...I just don't quite understand how isolating RPers helps RP grow and attract new RPers. It doesn't effect me in the least, just as many people despise PvP, I have no desire to RP...but I would be curious to observe an RP server/setting...I just won't create or move a character to experience it.

 

So...how does segregating your community help in the long run exactly?

I can see your point on this. It is true that I have met people who rolled on Ebon Hawk without intention of RPing (mostly to get away from the toxicity they reported on Harbinger and other servers), who then saw people RPing and decided to join in and found out they liked it. So that definitely does happen. However, in my experience, the incidence of that happening is a lot smaller than the incidence of people rolling on an RP server just to harass/troll/grief RPers. If harassing RPers became as easy as just shifting instances, that problem would increase! Therefore, I'd rather have at least one server designated as the RP server so that anyone who is inclined to RP can go there and have a server culture that is tolerant of RPing even if not everyone there RPs themselves.

If EAWare properly moderated and policed in-game behavior in this game (like Square Enix does with FFXIV and their zero tolerance policy), then I would be far less opposed to the idea of RP servers being merged with non-RP ones. However, EAWare has traditionally done little to nothing about harassment of players (even to the point of doxxing them with links to their real world ID in chat), so I have zero faith in the idea that they could just give us an RP instance on a merged server and everything would be fine.

If Open World objectives being "stolen" is such a big problem, what exactly is Bioware supposed to do about it....

 

Open World objectives being stolen causes a respawn timer's worth of inconvenience.

 

Group content is literally impossible in every sense of the word if you play on one of the dead servers (like the old PvP servers).

 

In an inconvenience vs game-breaking problem situation, it's pretty clear one of the styles should be getting a lot more catering.

It's pretty clear to me that some do not acknowledge the concerns that many have with regards to server merges, and only see their desires to have the servers merged.

Ebon Hawk is not only an RP server, but it is the server with the second highest population in NA. This is not a case of 'well, you're on a dead server so that proves your playstyle doesn't need support'. There are a lot more RPers out there than you are giving credit for! Stop acting like our populated server doesn't exist!

I think you misunderstand me, I am entirely against forcing RPers to merge. I meant the objectively dead servers like the old PvP servers. And maybe even the subjectively dead servers (some say JC and Shadowlands are dead, others say they're thriving). In any of those cases, "I like my server to have a lower population!" is a moot point because it basically just means "my inconvenience at OW loot is more important than the fact that you literally can't play the group content at all!"

I would never suggest a merger for RP servers, there's enough harassment of RPers as it is. Until proper policing of chat is done its best to let RPers stay on separate hubs, whether dead or alive.

I think you misunderstand me, I am entirely against forcing RPers to merge. I meant the objectively dead servers like the old PvP servers. And maybe even the subjectively dead servers (some say JC and Shadowlands are dead, others say they're thriving). In any of those cases, "I like my server to have a lower population!" is a moot point because it basically just means "my inconvenience at OW loot is more important than the fact that you literally can't play the group content at all!"

 

I would never suggest a merger for RP servers, there's enough harassment of RPers as it is. Until proper policing of chat is done its best to let RPers stay on separate hubs, whether dead or alive.

Ah, okay, I did in fact misunderstand you! I'm sorry for my confusion! I guess I'm just getting a little defensive, seeing so many people posting "there aren't enough RPers around to justify their own server" over and over in their zeal to push for megaservers and shave a few minutes off their queue pops. My apologies, we're good! *offers cookies*