Does the trooper character gets above Leutenant rank?

Does the trooper character gets above Leutenant rank?

 

 

 

I know in the air force, I have heard a commissioned officer refer to NCO's (mostly senior nco's) as sir, it's not an everyday thing but if the officer has enough respect for the NCO it's not too big of a stretch. Then again our cultures a lil weird compared to everyone elses, I've been referred to as sir by NCO's above me and visa versa

I gotta say, this Rank discrepancy is an abomination. I mean, an ensign calling a sargeant "Sir" is inexcusable even in a fantasy RPG that most likely was not designed and scripted by members of the actual real military. I might actually quit playing the game because I am so irked at the sloppy writing. I won't even be able to enjoy the game anymore.

 

Thanks alot, pedants.

 

**This is a troll post**

 

==========================================================

The deadliest weapon in the world is a Trooper and his Blaster. It is your killer instinct which must be harnessed if you expect to survive in combat. Your blaster is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills. If your killer instincts are not clean and strong, you will hesitate at the moment of truth. You will not kill. You will become dead Troopers. And then, you will be in a world of $*!+. Because Troopers are not allowed to die without permission! Do you maggots understand?

Thankfully, I'm not a military guy so this won't bother me when I level a Trooper. But I can understand it bothering people who were in the military.

 

What does bother me is seeing Troopers run around with the Captain title, like they're some kind of Smuggler or something! Who's ship did you steal to earn that title, huh?!

Edited December 28, 2011 by LaManoNera

I'm still waiting for the game to download, but the Ensign-deferring-to-a-Sergeant thing doesn't sound too ridiculous in my mind.

 

Ensign is a Naval rank. I see the Troopers as being either a Special Forces branch of the Republic Army, or perhaps an almost independent branch of their own under either the Republic Army or Navy, as the US Marines are to the US Navy.

 

So as entirely separate branches, the rigid chain-of-command system wouldn't really be there in a sense, although in the real world I believe NCOs of any branch are required to salute commissioned officers of any branch where appropriate, but it's not too crazy.

 

Also, as someone said, Ensign is the first commissioned rank. It's almost like a trainee rank, what you'd get straight out of the Academy until you've earned your way to Lieutenant. So it's not entirely ridiculous to think that a lowly Ensign, green out of the Academy, might defer to a grizzled, battle-hardened NCO of a specialist unit, outside of his own divisional branch. It might not be proper, but it's not completely unfeasible.

 

But, I agree, it wouldn't take much to get the rank structure right. I can work around it though.

I'm still waiting for the game to download, but the Ensign-deferring-to-a-Sergeant thing doesn't sound too ridiculous in my mind.

 

Ensign is a Naval rank. I see the Troopers as being either a Special Forces branch of the Republic Army, or perhaps an almost independent branch of their own under either the Republic Army or Navy, as the US Marines are to the US Navy.

 

So as entirely separate branches, the rigid chain-of-command system wouldn't really be there in a sense, although in the real world I believe NCOs of any branch are required to salute commissioned officers of any branch where appropriate, but it's not too crazy.

 

Also, as someone said, Ensign is the first commissioned rank. It's almost like a trainee rank, what you'd get straight out of the Academy until you've earned your way to Lieutenant. So it's not entirely ridiculous to think that a lowly Ensign, green out of the Academy, might defer to a grizzled, battle-hardened NCO of a specialist unit, outside of his own divisional branch. It might not be proper, but it's not completely unfeasible.

 

But, I agree, it wouldn't take much to get the rank structure right. I can work around it though.

 

Havoc Squad IS a Special Forces divison. They're actually the model that the other Special Forces is based off as well-- the elite of the elite. So, the lead character getting called sir by someone higher up could be plausible with enough respect for the group. These guys are the Navy Seals of the Republic Army.

 

As for an NPC calling another NPC sir... it doesn't really bother me. I'm not a military guy and it's a fantasy game set a long time ago in a galaxy far away. Maybe in their world, it's perfectly acceptable to call a lower rank sir.

Interesting read.

 

In my military I've actually seen an ensign calling a sergeant 'Sir', but our rank structure seems quite different to yours.

In Germany both ensign and sergeant are equal ranks, with ensign being a cadet officer rank (sergeants can't become officers). Sergeants tend to have more experience (and served longer), so it's not unheard of that a ensign calls a sergeant 'Sir' out of respect.

What is going on with these ranks? As a sergeant my trooper was demanding salutes, despite this not being an officer rank. Later in the Trooper line, an NPC ensign (the first officer rank in the Navy) calls a Sergeant (a mid-level non-officer rank in the non-Navy services) "Sir" and acts as though she is his superior.

 

It would be good if there was a codec entry for Troopers at the start that explained the rank structure, because as a member of the military IRL, I find the use of military ranks and terms in this game very confusing. It wouldn't be a problem if they were made up ranks, like some of the Imperial ranks, but using real world ranks in a non-conventional way with no explanation makes it seem as though it is a writing mistake.

 

I use to be in the Air force and I too noticed Sergeants being called sir by officer's in this game. A sergeant is an NCO (Non-Commissioned Officer) who did not attend the academy or what I use to call it OTS (Officer Training school). An NCO in the real military in any branch would salute the officer first and keep their salute up until the officer saluted and brought theirs back down. This is respect and general courtesy in the military. Please Bioware, at least get the common realities in this game right.. even if it is a fictional game.

It's probably because we're havoc squad which is special forces which is whole different branch of the army that's higher up =P

 

This mostly. ^

 

Your basically given the respect of a LT, but you need to earn it.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Andrew_Waltfeld

I find it kind of ridiculous that everyone is expecting the use of a rank system in a video game to match that of the United States verbatim; here are what I believe to be several reasons why they shouldn't.

 

1: Its a fantasy game; i.e. everything is MADE UP.

2A: The game is not specifically "American" so why should they use the american version to begin with, as stated by previous posters the structure actually kind of resembles british/german equivalents.

2B: On the note that it resembles the british structure the game was developed by a company that started in Canada (a part of the British commonwealth) which is owned by another company that is headquartered in Canada (EA games)

3: Its a game with a HUGE variation of people playing and as such i would expect a low population of which know exactly how the ranking structure of any military works so its made to be less complex; like there are no commissioned or non commissioned ranks

4: The game is set "A Long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" is it too much of a stretch to think they may have done things differently

Personally I don't think Bioware researched far enough to modern armies when they did trooper.

 

You could see this in story things like how desertion was handled. I just think they didn't do very careful and detailed work with trooper story and all its concepts. Its like they didn't have anyone who would have been in army checking the story and details.

 

I'm only reservist and been sometime since been in army but even I cringe in few spots in story as many things just don't feel right.

I find it kind of ridiculous that everyone is expecting the use of a rank system in a video game to match that of the United States verbatim; here are what I believe to be several reasons why they shouldn't.

 

1: Its a fantasy game; i.e. everything is MADE UP.

2A: The game is not specifically "American" so why should they use the american version to begin with, as stated by previous posters the structure actually kind of resembles british/german equivalents.

2B: On the note that it resembles the british structure the game was developed by a company that started in Canada (a part of the British commonwealth) which is owned by another company that is headquartered in Canada (EA games)

3: Its a game with a HUGE variation of people playing and as such i would expect a low population of which know exactly how the ranking structure of any military works so its made to be less complex; like there are no commissioned or non commissioned ranks

4: The game is set "A Long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" is it too much of a stretch to think they may have done things differently

 

But they didn't invent special operations, ranks and even the way soldiers salute.

Its all borrowed from real world,. Galaxy can be fantasy as republic, but the many concepts they didn't create but instead borrowed from real world.

 

I think its natural assume that if you borrow something from real world you follow it logically too. Question here is about inconsistency which I think exist in trooper storyline otherwise too.

I find it kind of ridiculous that everyone is expecting the use of a rank system in a video game to match that of the United States verbatim; here are what I believe to be several reasons why they shouldn't.

 

1: Its a fantasy game; i.e. everything is MADE UP.

2A: The game is not specifically "American" so why should they use the american version to begin with, as stated by previous posters the structure actually kind of resembles british/german equivalents.

2B: On the note that it resembles the british structure the game was developed by a company that started in Canada (a part of the British commonwealth) which is owned by another company that is headquartered in Canada (EA games)

3: Its a game with a HUGE variation of people playing and as such i would expect a low population of which know exactly how the ranking structure of any military works so its made to be less complex; like there are no commissioned or non commissioned ranks

4: The game is set "A Long time ago, in a galaxy far far away" is it too much of a stretch to think they may have done things differently

 

Bigoted much? Your entire post is not only idiotic, but irrelevant. It doesn't matter which country's military rank structure the game was based on (if any), for one very simple reason. The game has a codex entry specifying the necessary information. First, that Havoc Squad is Special Forces, part of the Republic Army. Second, that Ensign is of superior rank to Sergeant. Third, "...the honorific 'sir' should be used when addressing any personnel of higher rank than oneself, regardless of the species, gender or position of the addressee."

 

The OP is correct, the ensign NPC should not have called the NPC sergeant 'sir'. The correct form of address would have been to simply call him 'sergeant'. You don't have to call a lower ranking person 'sir' in order to show them respect.

 

All that said, I'd just brush it off as the voiced over equivalent of a typo. The codex entry proves that BioWare put at least some thought into it.

 

P.S. The soldiers in the trooper story line salute in the fashion of the US military, not the British military.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Rhostadt

Sergent = NCO = Non-Commisioned OFFICER

 

An NCO is still an enlisted rank, at least in RL military. You would not be required to salute an NCO who outranked you, but would always be required to salute an officer of any branch that outranked you. Example: a LT in the navy outranks a LT in the army, name is the same but the naval is O-3 while the army one would be an O-1 or 2.

 

As far as the lore goes could be they salute you out of respect for your status in Havoc squad. Otherwise I agree that the rankings seem a tad confusing at times on Republic side.

Personally I don't think Bioware researched far enough to modern armies when they did trooper.

 

You could see this in story things like how desertion was handled. I just think they didn't do very careful and detailed work with trooper story and all its concepts. Its like they didn't have anyone who would have been in army checking the story and details.

 

I'm only reservist and been sometime since been in army but even I cringe in few spots in story as many things just don't feel right.

 

i steady of the military and being a military brat. i wanted to follow my family tradition. but being handicapped i couldnt. but yea im chptr3. and have cringed. i showed my dad, the part of general garza ordering you kill the civlies. he look at me and said she would of been relieved of duty in a heartbeat special forces or not.

Edited January 29, 2013 by dewayne

As an ex-marine myself I just smile, shake my head at the inconsistencies and move on.

 

It isn't limited to the Trooper story...

 

 

As an ex-marine myself I just smile, shake my head at the inconsistencies and move on.

 

It isn't limited to the Trooper story...

 

 

When you play as a Sith Inquistor you end up as a member of the Dark Council. When you play as a Sith Warrior you end up as the Emperor's Wrath, that is arguably "above" the Dark Council. And yet, when you are doing the dailies on Belsavis you have at least 2 Darths lording it over you, bossing you around and basically putting you on "latrine duty" (to use a military term). It makes no sense, but what are you going to do? You need the commendations.

 

Once a Marine, always a Marine. There is no such thing as an "ex-marine" haha

 

Semper Fi.

 

 

 

Anyways yeah this is just sloppy writing on BW's part in my opinion, there were so many times where I wanted to reach through the screen and punch another trooper square in the face, I won't even bother listing them. Not to mention, my trooper always called Garza "sir" ***?

Once a Marine, always a Marine. There is no such thing as an "ex-marine" haha

 

Semper Fi.

 

True.

 

Twenty years later and I still find myself looking at a landscape and analyzing avenues of attack and looking for ambush spots.

i steady of the military and being a military brat. i wanted to follow my family tradition. but being handicapped i couldnt. but yea im chptr3. and have cringed. i showed my dad, the part of general garza ordering you kill the civlies. he look at me and said she would of been relieved of duty in a heartbeat special forces or not.

 

Depending on the options taken in the story I got the impression that Garza is pretty far off the reservation and the reason she is not stripped of rank is not because the oversight committee doesn't want to - it's because they can't.

Even if this was based on Canadian/Commonwealth ranks as has been suggested above, it'd be completely wrong...Sergeants here are addressed as Sergeant both by those superior and subordinate in rank...that and they ignored the fact there are 3 NCO ranks superior to a Sergeant...even if that Sergeant was SOF, still a sergeant, still salutes Officers (not in the field, of course) and calls them "Sir". Extra points for saying it "SAAAAAH!"

 

PLUS, WHY IS ELARA THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS HOW TO PRONOUNCE LIEUTENANT PROPERLY?

 

Remember, this is Star Wars.

 

Rank is really just an indication of how dangerous the missions/tough the enemies are that you are expected to engage at close quarters. (Example: various Close Wars episodes, where in really critical situations, they throw three generals (plus their companies) into the front lines, while also sending a couple of senators in a sort of scout/secret agent role )

 

Havoc Squad - and other famously ******es - presumably get treated by non-Spec Ops as effectively higher rank than they are.

I guarantee that a programmer just programmed it that way and didn't bother to check to make sure it is correct. Just play and have fun don't read into it.

Well check the spoiler below as to why being saluted by an Ensign on Taris would not be surprising.

 

 

When your character leaves Ord Mantell you are giving the rank of Lieutenant in the story line, which out ranks an Ensign (though you can technically keep the Sergent title). So being saluted by an ensign would not be surprising by the time you rach Taris.

 

But then why does a captain salute you and say Sir if you are a LT?

Captains don't have to salute those below them, right?

But then why does a captain salute you and say Sir if you are a LT?

Captains don't have to salute those below them, right?

Fuss, fuss, yes they do, but the lower-rank is supposed to salute first. (My wife was in the USAF and ANG during the earlier part of the 1980s. She was quite clear on this point. It is also an important point in the original Manchurian Candidate film, where Marco salutes his superior when he is put on suspension, and won't let go of the salute until he gets one in return.)

 

And there is also the rule that *everyone* in the US military salutes-first a Medal of Honor holder who is wearing the medal, even if the holder is a private, and the saluter is the President. Well, that's what my wife told me, anyway.