It helps vs some classes (most noticably sniper/gunslinger that we can have some issues with if they do their stuff properly). The problem is that its starting to be less and less common in WZ those days. Teams consisting only knights/sages/troopers are starting to be nothing unusual and vs those clases oil slick is only helping us considerably against knight. Aginst decent marauders from my personal experience oil slick=death for us due to dps gap of non dps gcd. Their dps is insane and 20% acc debuff will make him miss once in about 5 weapon strikes, the fight usualy ends in less than 10 gcd.

As for the gear the best set for us is combat tech set that is atm buged braking carbonize.(while it might not sound gamebreaking it is already lost count how many times i lost 1v1 due to it) From implants/not set piece gear you should chose items with most beneficial stats for us. Usualy its eliminator the exceptions are battle master implants where we benefit more from medic implants crit/surge rating. You might also want to rip the mods from champ helmet when upgrading to battlemaster since its the only source of surge mods.

I truly enjoy reading these forums while bored and I've found it a common theme people compring this to that and the merits. I understand the conversations and its necessary to have them, but it really irks me when dpsers can't see past the big shiny numbers. Whether its IF or CP or some other variation of a tank hybrid its not about topping charts rather a teambased build.

Not to say all pyrotechs are Kb facesmashers just seems the majority won't understand why someone would want to not be blowing stuff up. Those of us that play these hybrids specs enjoy being able to dish decent damage as well as be a versatile part of the team.

Just out of curiosity because I didn't see it anywhere, what is your keybind set up?

Taugrim has a guide that's technically from Rift:

http://taugrim.com/2011/04/07/guide-to-strafing-movement-and-keybindings/

However it's still worth reading, especially if you aren't used to keybinding and strafing as there are some very good tips in there.

I know this is not a "DPS" build. More of an offensive tank.

But whats a good skill rotation.

I just switched to this form a 31pt AP spec. I dont really feel any "tankier" ( I used IGC even with AP) But I feel like I do alot less dmg.

Im sure its just me adjusting. But any help?

Right now I just leap in, RP, RS, explod dart, and FB till something is off cool down, all while following someone im guarding.

Even though an 8% increase on IGC is a modest increase on an already small number, it's something that is consistently hitting every single time we use our keystone ability, rocket punch. I'd rather take an extra ~1k+ every time I RP over 2 seconds off of quell's CD. Between stun dart, grapple, charge, carbonize, i don't really see interrupts as the powertech's Achilles's heal.

I take the two out and put it into prototype cylinders and shield vents, but the SV talent is more of a float talent. its better than 1% endurance and 1 second off quell.

I don't know if this was touched, but you mentioned that the heat management differences of this build compared to Parakeet is negligible. I'm not sure I agree with that.

This is my understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Opening rotation for both builds:

IF: Retractable Blade + Rail Shot = 32 Heat

CP: Incendiary Missile + Rail Shot = 32 Heat

In addition, FB and RP in CP builds have a 30% and 45% chance of proc'ing RS and venting 8 heat (which happens quite often), whereas Iron Fist has no way of venting heat. It seems to me CP has superior heat management here. Am I missing something?

no, you're not missing anything at all cp has better heat management. there can be no arguement about that if you're dpsing a single target or if your in a 1v1 situation.

the problem with cp is that you'll have to constantly be switching targets because for the most part they get blown up fast. each new target you'll want to reapply im. doing this alot will run your heat up quickly.

in cp you're basically spamming flame burst and using rocket punch on cooldown trying to fish for free rail shot procs. depending if you're lucky with rng you could have great heat management. if not...heat can be an issue.

there's no question with good rng cp has better heat management.

Even though an 8% increase on IGC is a modest increase on an already small number, it's something that is consistently hitting every single time we use our keystone ability, rocket punch. Also, it's energy damage (no armor).

Energy damage is mitigated by armor. Elemental and Internal is not.

Taugrim has a guide that's technically from Rift:

 

http://taugrim.com/2011/04/07/guide-to-strafing-movement-and-keybindings/

 

However it's still worth reading, especially if you aren't used to keybinding and strafing as there are some very good tips in there.

As I said in the video included in the Guide, the concepts are applicable to every major MMO game on the market.

I just happened to use footage from RIFT because that's what I was playing

What is it exactly that makes oil slick that interesting? From where I stand it looks like a rather 'meh' talent, especially considering pvp. I was wondering if I'm missing some crucial point here, or would do I just aswell if I invested that point into maxing out shielded vents?

Against Gunslingers / Snipers and Jedi Knights / Sith Warriors, it lowers their chance to hit with many of their bread-and-butter attacks.

it really irks me when dpsers can't see past the big shiny numbers.

Yes, I have noticed that on both the Vanguard and Powertech forums.

As I'm learning on the forms here, people who are fixated on damage over utility, CC, mobility, etc, do not really value anything but their damage.

That's fine, if people want to only play DPS, that's their choice.

I rolled a Powertech and Vanguard to be able to "tank" in PVP at endgame, and it wasn't until I started playing my Iron Fist build that I found what I was looking for: an offensive tank that has good durability, good DPS, good mobility, and good CC. The spec doesn't have the ranged capability of other specs, and that's the tradeoff.

In regards to this...

I don't know if this was touched, but you mentioned that the heat management differences of this build compared to Parakeet is negligible. I'm not sure I agree with that.

...tbsly framed the issue well:

no, you're not missing anything at all cp has better heat management. there can be no arguement about that if you're dpsing a single target or if your in a 1v1 situation.

 

the problem with cp is that you'll have to constantly be switching targets because for the most part they get blown up fast. each new target you'll want to reapply im. doing this alot will run your heat up quickly.

That's my perspective as well.

In an extended fight against the same target, the heat efficiency of CP is excellent. But oft times you have to do fast target switches and apply IM.

One thing about IM I've noticed is that as it costs 25 Heat, it can drop you below a passive venting threshold. That is 25 + 8 is worse than 16 + 16 when you end up under a threshold during your first GCD. Not a huge difference but it's something to keep in mind.

I thought energy was elemental damage for tech users. My b

Attack type and damage type are often confused but they are separate concepts.

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/#attack-types

Attack types: Force, Melee, Ranged, and Tech

Damage types: Elemental, Energy, Internal, Kinetic

If you have a tooltip that says an ability does weapon damage, check your weapon for its damage type.

I know this is not a "DPS" build. More of an offensive tank.

 

But whats a good skill rotation.

 

I just switched to this form a 31pt AP spec. I dont really feel any "tankier" ( I used IGC even with AP) But I feel like I do alot less dmg.

 

Im sure its just me adjusting. But any help?

 

Right now I just leap in, RP, RS, explod dart, and FB till something is off cool down, all while following someone im guarding.

This is kind of my stance.

I see this build thriving more in "Group Play" more then anything else.

But to me, looking at the talents and how things are laid out I just can't see you coming out ahead in a 1v1 against a competent (and relatively geared) opponent. Minus the "lulz acid pit/fire pit" in Huttball.

If the aim is dealing with bad players in a 1v1 Situation, then yes, this build may excel. But then bad players will be bad players and falter to pretty much anything.

You just lack the extra dps tools other specs (and ST Variants) get to deal with these situations.

But to me, looking at the talents and how things are laid out I just can't see you coming out ahead in a 1v1 against a competent (and relatively geared) opponent. Minus the "lulz acid pit/fire pit" in Huttball.

I've had no problems taking out other tanks and DPS in this spec 1v1. I feel like I have the tools to match up against anyone.

Just uploaded a video overnight showing a fight against what is probably an equally-geared Juggernaut and a better-geared Assasin:

More 1v1s to come.

Question, with this build are you running the Supercommando or Equivalent in the vanguard that is? Do you run a generator or a shield with this spec?

he's wearing the 4 piece combat tech set with a shield in his offhand.

just wanted to post my build, it's a variant of the iron fist. my build gives up oil slick and supercharged ion gas for rebraced armor.

i would personally rather have the extra armor for pve tanking purposes. it gives almost no benefit in pvp but i dont feel like oil slick and supercharged ion gas are game breaking to give up to have more of a tanking build for pve.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301GRGR0MroMZMcrroZb.1

btw, iron fist is a beast pvp spec. i only have 4 pieces of champion gear considering i hit 50over the weekend but i already feel like im a reasonably hard target to burst down. im pleased with the damage aswell. i look forward to the damage and survivability when i get mostly champion gear.

ive been lucky so far with bags. ive gotten 4 pieces (1 dublicate) out of 11 bags. maybe that is close to arverage.

The biggest issue that Bounty Hunters are going to have with this build is that the 2pc still breaks carbonize, which for me is a deal breaker, if the bonus simply didn't apply I could live with it, but actually breaking carbonize is a no go.

So either I have to try and gather up the tank pieces and re-mod, or use the eliminator set, which is much less effective for this build.

Even though an 8% increase on IGC is a modest increase on an already small number, it's something that is consistently hitting every single time we use our keystone ability, rocket punch. I'd rather take an extra ~1k+ every time I RP over 2 seconds off of quell's CD. Between stun dart, grapple, charge, carbonize, i don't really see interrupts as the powertech's Achilles's heal.

 

I take the two out and put it into prototype cylinders and shield vents, but the SV talent is more of a float talent. its better than 1% endurance and 1 second off quell.

Quell is crtical particulary when fighting sages and comandos. Aginst 1st we need our graple/charge to stay on their faces, vs scond we need to save stun for when they pop their shield. I removed those points at some point when testing various version and those 2s actualy make a big difference vs those clases.

just curious taugrim, what main hand weapon are you using right now on your trooper. ive got 2 atm because i had a duplicate. i have the supercommando weapon and the combat tech weapon. i thought long and hard about getting the combat medic weapon instead of the combat tech weapon.

I'm using the Eliminator's Rifle.

IIFC the Combat Medic weapon is an Assault Cannon which you can't use anyway.

With this spec, I recommend using 4-pc Combat Tech for the set bonus, or alternatively 4-pc SC with the Defense / Shield mods swapped out for DPS ones.

The only piece of tank gear that is must-have is the Shield offhand, to leverage the free +15% Shield Chance from the tanking stance.

The biggest issue that Bounty Hunters are going to have with this build is that the 2pc still breaks carbonize, which for me is a deal breaker, if the bonus simply didn't apply I could live with it, but actually breaking carbonize is a no go.

 

So either I have to try and gather up the tank pieces and re-mod, or use the eliminator set, which is much less effective for this build.

Is the 2-pc set bonus only bugged for BH not VG? That sucks.

People are also running the 4-pc SC tank set and re-mod as you mention, that's also a very viable way of going about it.