Not sure what to make of the increase in cooldown on Sundering Strike. Was it just me or do we use that as a main focus generator.

 

Being that maintening decent focus is already hard, is this going to be a issue?

 

On top of that, they are removing the +1 focus from being hit in Sorensu and adding it as a passive to all stances......meaning basically tanks are the only ones that dont get an increase in focus, but do suffer a loss from the decent increase in cooldown on Sundering Strike.

 

Love eveything in the patch notes for 2.0......but this just looked a little strange.....

Not sure what to make of the increase in cooldown on Sundering Strike. Was it just me or do we use that as a main focus generator.

 

Being that maintening decent focus is already hard, is this going to be a issue?

 

On top of that, they are removing the +1 focus from being hit in Sorensu and adding it as a passive to all stances......meaning basically tanks are the only ones that dont get an increase in focus, but do suffer a loss from the decent increase in cooldown on Sundering Strike.

 

Love eveything in the patch notes for 2.0......but this just looked a little strange.....

 

I'm still probably about 5 hours from finishing downloading the PTS, so I haven't seen all the changes yet, but you have to consider with the buffs to the Defense tree, a lot more people are going to be specced into Cyclonic Sweeps, and full Defense has never had that many issues with Focus, its always been the Hybrid that was the most Focus starved.

 

Assuming Defense still has a penalty to Focus generation on Sunder and Strike, and assuming Victory Rush hasn't been changed, you'll gain 5 defense from Sunder. Previously you could Sunder 4 times in a 15 second period and generate 8 Focus from those Sunders, now you'll only have 2 in that same 15 second period but generate 10 Focus (however at 14 seconds, the old method of Sunder would have generated 8 Focus, while the new one would still only be 5).

 

The big difference will be the requirement to save Focus generators to make sure you don't waste Focus now, for example, starting a fight with Saber Throw, Leap and Sunder will require you to immediately use a couple big Focus dumps before you can mix in your Combat Focus. You'll also have to be more careful with Focus when waiting for Sunder to come off cooldown, you never want to be unable to use a Blade Storm, Sweep or Riposte when its ready.

 

The specs that will potentially be hurt more by this change are the DPS specs, which will have to find more time to mix in Strike into their rotations. For example Vigilance before could get by without ever using Strike in a prolonged fight, now with a little bad luck on Zen Strike procs, it will be necessary.

Edited February 21, 2013 by wadecounty

Thats true, though DPS get the visionary as a general focus buff......which will be of still decent use in PvE (dps obviously still take hits), in PvP its a great buff to focus generation they did not have before.

 

Meanwhile, tank just lose focus....over time. At least thats my understanding of it.....

 

I just hope not to be reduced to spamming Strike for focus, which would be pretty demeaning.

 

I guess it may turn out not so much as a nerf but more as a buff to the other stances that tank stance does not get.

Thats true, though DPS get the visionary as a general focus buff......which will be of still decent use in PvE (dps obviously still take hits), in PvP its a great buff to focus generation they did not have before.

 

Meanwhile, tank just lose focus....over time. At least thats my understanding of it.....

 

I just hope not to be reduced to spamming Strike for focus, which would be pretty demeaning.

 

I guess it may turn out not so much as a nerf but more as a buff to the other stances that tank stance does not get.

Visionary isn't really a buff to DPS, Vigilance in Shien already had that effect, and Focus in Shii-Cho were almost all spec'd into it. The only real change is that Focus no longer has to spend 1 skill point to gain that ability.

 

Anyways, you won't be reduced to spamming Strike unless you have poor Focus management (or you're in a situation where you aren't the active tank, those will be a bit more annoying).

edit, nvm Edited February 21, 2013 by SentinelDranoel

A little more math, with the old Sunder used on cooldown, in 1 minute, you'd generate 28 Focus (14 sunders multiplied by 2). With the new Sunder used on cooldown, in 1 minute, you'd generate 25 Focus (5 sunders multiplied by 5).

 

In 2 minutes, with the old Sunder, 54 Focus (27 times 2). In 2 minutes, with new Sunder, 45 Focus (9 times 2).

 

So yeah, in a long drawn out fight it does appear you're losing out with the new Sunder, assuming you set up your rotation to always use the old one on cooldown. Kind of interested to see how this plays on the PTS.

Ouch! That might really hurt over 5-10 minute fiights.

 

Interested to see how it plays...

You forgot that since you used less GCDs... you have more GCDs to spam strike and get more focus. This is a net focus gain.

You forgot that since you used less GCDs... you have more GCDs to spam strike and get more focus. This is a net focus gain.

 

That's true. If you use the same GCD's on Strike that you would have on Sunder its a gain in Focus although a loss in DPS. On the other hand if you consider you're gaining Focus, that in itself is a DPS increase.

 

Almost done downloading but from what my friend was telling me, overall it sounds like HUGE buffs to the tank tree. Saber Reflect lasting for 5 seconds, doing high threat and on a 1 minute cooldown? That is incredible, arguably better than Force Shroud now as a tank cooldown.

We also got 15 seconds shaved off combat focus, it's a little tough to tell atm, but the changes are better in some ways and lesser in others. The new DR on the stats is what is prove it all in the end, as well as the face that we can shield force/tech attacks. The bigger problem is that in 162 gear we only have about 40 percent shield and under 40 on absorb, and 16 percent defence with 600 points invested into it. Shadow/Vanguard had it easy now even with the hit they took for the fact the shield/absorb is so high and well ours is crap as well as Blade barrier still sucks.

I do have a Guardian (well, two) on the PTS.

 

First: Victory Rush has been changed, with two points in it Sundering Strike now generates two additional Focus. With Soresu's Focus penalty it means one Sunder generates 6 Focus - tried and tested, it is 6. Cyclonic Sweeps got changed, it is now a one point ability: in addition to increasing the frequency at which getting attacked generates Focus (putting that one point ensures Visionary's effect can happen every 3 seconds instead of 6), it also reduces the Focus cost of Guardian Slash and Blade Storm by 1 each.

 

Momentum is gone though: you can only get the free Blade Storm in Shii-cho form.

After playing it, I can say that while Focus doesn't seem to be an issue, it does radically change your rotation. I found myself instinctively hitting Sunder after every 2nd attack, which is no longer what you'll be doing.

 

I think a typical rotation on a trash pack would look something like...

 

Saber Throw (3 Focus) -> Leap (6 Focus) -> Sweep (3 Focus) -> Guardian Slash (0 Focus) -> Sunder (6 Focus) -> Strike (7 Focus) -> Strike (8 Focus) -> Blade Storm (with Courage hopefully costs 0, so still 8 Focus) -> Cyclone Slash (6 Focus) -> Sweep (3-6 Focus depending on stacks of Courage) -> Guardian Slash (2-5 Focus depending on stacks of Courage available for Sweep)... etc.

 

Also Guardian Slash's cooldown is only 12 seconds now.

Btw, a new issue with Guardian tanks that I did notice, we're getting the short end of the stick early on with mitigation changes. Firstly, Shielding now affects all Energy and Kinetic damage, including those that come from Force and Tech attacks. This is a buff to all tanks, but helps us the least as we are the tank that relies the least on shielding.

 

Second, we're losing Guard Stance from our skill tree. Well, it might have been reworked to have a different effect, I can't quite remember, but more importantly, we'll no longer have a 3 point skill that increases our defense in Soresu by 6%. Blade Barricade will be buffed to give a 5% increase with 2 skill points, but that's only 2% higher than it was, meaning a net loss of 4% Defense for Guardian tanks.

 

That being said, Saber Reflect gives us a HUGE boost in Active Mitigation, although from the wording on the tooltip, it sounds like it doesn't work against Melee white damage. Although even if that were the case, it would still act like a superior Force Shroud, you know, that cooldown that Guardians are all jealous of Shadows/Assassins for having?

Edited February 21, 2013 by wadecounty

They reworked quite a lot of things, itemization is very much different now. In the full stock Arkanian gear, my Guardian has the following stats (Defense spec, War Leader set):

 

- 33915 HP

- 9647 armour rating

- 46.80% damage reduction

- 15.08% Defense chance

- 41.05% Shield chance

- 35.25% Shield absorption

 

Make of it what you will. The mitigation stats are only very slightly lower in my 61/63 gear (on the PTS, not on the live servers) but the difference in Endurance and Strength is MASSIVE.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Siorac

They reworked quite a lot of things, itemization is very much different now. In the full stock Arkanian gear, my Guardian has the following stats (Defense spec, War Leader set):

 

- 33915 HP

- 9647 armour rating

- 46.80% damage reduction

- 15.08% Defense chance

- 41.05% Shield chance

- 35.25% Shield absorption

 

Make of it what you will. The mitigation stats are only very slightly lower in my 61/63 gear (on the PTS, not on the live servers) but the difference in Endurance and Strength is MASSIVE.

 

Wait, what the hell? As a low endurance mitigation stacked tank with 24.5k hp, 33% defense (without riposte), 50% shield chance and 50% absorb chance this worries me a lot.

Wait, what the hell? As a low endurance mitigation stacked tank with 24.5k hp, 33% defense (without riposte), 50% shield chance and 50% absorb chance this worries me a lot.

 

Yeah, I have very similar stats on the live servers in tank gear currently. Gonna check how my old gear works on the PTS.

 

It's 14.71% defense chance, 43% shield rating, 35.43% absorption, 27k HP. On live servers the same gear gives something like 24.8k HP, 28% def chance, 52% shield chance, 50% absorption. I think.

It's 14.71% defense chance, 43% shield rating, 35.43% absorption, 27k HP. On live servers the same gear gives something like 24.8k HP, 28% def chance, 52% shield chance, 50% absorption. I think.

 

Essentially we're going from optimized top tier gear (give or take) to columi/rakata stock gear (give or take, actually even tionese probably has over 15% defense chance) with a ton more HP, which is going to leave us a sponge on the healers' resource until we can optimize the new gear and hopefully reclaim our current stats. Won't this be fun... Seems though in the end "low endurance" is going to be several notches higher than it used to be, and extra strength would help with threat.

Edited February 21, 2013 by MyDarkSunshine

They reworked quite a lot of things, itemization is very much different now. In the full stock Arkanian gear, my Guardian has the following stats (Defense spec, War Leader set):

 

- 33915 HP

- 9647 armour rating

- 46.80% damage reduction

- 15.08% Defense chance

- 41.05% Shield chance

- 35.25% Shield absorption

 

Make of it what you will. The mitigation stats are only very slightly lower in my 61/63 gear (on the PTS, not on the live servers) but the difference in Endurance and Strength is MASSIVE.

 

Wait, what the hell? As a low endurance mitigation stacked tank with 24.5k hp, 33% defense (without riposte), 50% shield chance and 50% absorb chance this worries me a lot.

 

I came back for this?!? Yeah seriously WTH?!? My Guard isn't geared near as good as you and I'm (approx) 47% mitigiation 27% def (also without riposte) 42% shield and 38% abs. Yet another kick in the groin to Guard Tanks.

 

Here's hoping for TESO beta so I can cancel again.

Edited February 21, 2013 by ChicksDigHarleys

We also got 15 seconds shaved off combat focus, it's a little tough to tell atm, but the changes are better in some ways and lesser in others. The new DR on the stats is what is prove it all in the end, as well as the face that we can shield force/tech attacks. The bigger problem is that in 162 gear we only have about 40 percent shield and under 40 on absorb, and 16 percent defence with 600 points invested into it. Shadow/Vanguard had it easy now even with the hit they took for the fact the shield/absorb is so high and well ours is crap as well as Blade barrier still sucks.

 

We can't shield force/tech attacks, we can shield energy/kinetic attacks that aren't from direct weapon damage attacks. Also, given the fact that here http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/guardian/225/ you can see that we get CD reduc on sunder now as well as still getting a focus bonus to it means it'll CD in 12 seconds and generate SEVEN focus if you take these two talents.

We can't shield force/tech attacks, we can shield energy/kinetic attacks that aren't from direct weapon damage attacks. Also, given the fact that here http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/guardian/225/ you can see that we get CD reduc on sunder now as well as still getting a focus bonus to it means it'll CD in 12 seconds and generate SEVEN focus if you take these two talents.

 

We'll be able to shield all attack that do energy/kinetic damage. This means, melee, ranged, tech, force attacks that do energy or kinetic will be shieldable.

Um, don't tech/force attacks do tech/force damage?

Um, don't tech/force attacks do tech/force damage?

 

No, tech and force are the attack type. The damage type can be kinetic, energy, internal or elemental.

Wow, don't I feel silly now? Lol. Thanks for clearing that up.

After playing around with this on the PTS I can say I'm really happy with the changes. Took me a little to get used to the playstyle again since I'd retired my Guardian tank in favour of my Shadow but I think the changes will have me reversing that.

 

First of all, threat is a dream now. I jumped straight into SM S&V without even messing around on a dummy and I had no threat issues. This also coming from a retired Hybrid Guardian on Live. Trash was much easier to deal with thanks to the front loaded focus from Sunder 1+4 Guardian Slash and the cheaper Cyclonic Sweep.

 

Just like live, Focus management on a dummy is a PITA. Focus management when actively tanking is fine. I was swimming it.

 

Mitigation feels fine for SM S&V, I didn't feel squishy at all the healers weren't having issues healing me. The lower CD on Saber Ward and Warding Call felt really good. Between those 2, a clicky relic and an armour adrenal I always had a CD for when I wanted one. I also liked the Riposte CD reduction when Saber Ward is active, I don't think it's necessary and I often found I was waiting for the proc to use it rather than the CD to run down but its fun.

 

Saber Reflect is awesome fun. I'm still working out how to use it as a defensive CD rather than a bunch of free threat but its very interesting.

 

Rotation feels much more natural now. Instead of Sunder -> Filler -> Filler we have pretty much everything on a 12s CD:

- Sunder

- Guardian Slash

- Blade Storm

- Force Sweep

With that in mind I was finding a Rotation along the lines of:

Sunder -> Guardian Slash -> Blade Storm -> Filler -> Sweep -> Filler -> Filler -> Repeat worked pretty well.

 

Only real downsides for me where Purifying Sweeps being useless outside of Sudering trash and having to choose between PvP talents because I needed more points to reach the top of the tree.

They reworked quite a lot of things, itemization is very much different now. In the full stock Arkanian gear, my Guardian has the following stats (Defense spec, War Leader set):

 

- 33915 HP

- 9647 armour rating

- 46.80% damage reduction

- 15.08% Defense chance

- 41.05% Shield chance

- 35.25% Shield absorption

 

Make of it what you will. The mitigation stats are only very slightly lower in my 61/63 gear (on the PTS, not on the live servers) but the difference in Endurance and Strength is MASSIVE.

 

Would you quit generating false hysteria? We all know that the character sheet when displaying stats are out of whack right now. For example, it was showing my Gunslinger on PTS having 14.78% accuracy in basic level 55 gear. But tested on Operation dummy, I know for sure it is closer to 98%+