Selenial Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 How about the Hutt Cartel? Pitting one Hutts powerbase against another would be a very interesting one to do.... Although it'd have to be a sub section, not called kaggaths, as i really cant see Jabba or Karraga thinking it'd be cool to fight each other by the ways of an ancient sith tradition..... Maybe it could be called "Underworld Arena" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Query: How many Mandalorians in Pre Vizla's Death Watch do you think there were? 100? 200? More? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Pitting one Hutts powerbase against another would be a very interesting one to do.... Although it'd have to be a sub section, not called kaggaths, as i really cant see Jabba or Karraga thinking it'd be cool to fight each other by the ways of an ancient sith tradition..... Maybe it could be called "Underworld Arena" Neither would many previous combatants really (e.g. G0-T0) - its just a set up. I would like to include some Hutts, but getting info on their powerbases is tricky. I will try by best though (with the new 'battleground' format, I'm planning on specifying numbers and forces etc in detail.) 'Underworld Arena' sounds cool though... hmmm, interesting. Edited February 22, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Sigh, double post. Edited February 22, 2013 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Query: How many Mandalorians in Pre Vizla's Death Watch do you think there were? 100? 200? More? Definatly more, I'd say before the rift caused by Bo Katan and Vizla's death, his Death Watch army spanned to around 1000.... Just judging by the sheer numbers we see in some scenes and a few refferences and size of forces needed to take over what they did... Youd need a hell of a lot of soldiers to take on the Black Sun, barge into the Hutt Palaces etc like they did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Definatly more, I'd say before the rift caused by Bo Katan and Vizla's death, his Death Watch army spanned to around 1000.... Just judging by the sheer numbers we see in some scenes and a few refferences and size of forces needed to take over what they did... Youd need a hell of a lot of soldiers to take on the Black Sun, barge into the Hutt Palaces etc like they did... Hmmm, but on Mustafar Maul basically did all the work and there was not really any battle. And on both Nal Hutta and Tatooine the Hutt's where not heavily defended. All they had where bounty hunters and thugs, which Maul & Savage made short work of. And then on Sundari they basically tricked the people into helping them... I'd say all the above are achievable with less than 200 (deadly) soldiers. Bearing in mind that the Kenobi's 212th Attack Battalion consisted of only 660 soldiers, and they invaded Sepratists bases etc. Then we've got the fact the Nite Owls may well as been the "twelve former Death Watch members" that formed with 200 Mandalorian police to form the Mandalorian Protectors. Some likely died in the Battle of Sundari - but they can't have numbered in any more than 30. We also never see any more than 20 on screen at any given time, and they often 'occupy' small spaces e.g. the abandoned mines on Concordia where Vizla prepared his entire force to invade Mandalore, and the camps on Carlac and Zanbar. Sorry for the overload of info there, but I've been spending time (too much time ) researching this. I'm still unsure though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Another idea: Czerka Cooperation Or another Cooperation. There are neutral powers in the SW Universe which aren't part of the Underworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Another idea: Czerka Cooperation Or another Cooperation. There are neutral powers in the SW Universe which aren't part of the Underworld.Building on that (because pitting corporations against each other on their own is difficult) give them an ally, or give a combatant them as an ally/supplier - to make things more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maaruin Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Building on that (because pitting corporations against each other on their own is difficult) give them an ally, or give a combatant them as an ally/supplier - to make things more interesting. I wouldn't necessarily put cooperations against each other, but against other powers, for example political powers. Maybe KOTOR (I+II) Czerka against Darth Baras' power base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird_of_Thunder Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Baras vs. Thanaton. This needs to be settled. There's a thread about Thanaton vs. Baras in Story and Lore, but it just doesn't seem as formal as a Kaggath. So we need to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Has Darth Vader been considered as a Kaggath combatant? He has a squadron of Star Destroyers; the 501st is his personal legion, Vader's Fist; numerous apprentices have been trained by him and could be used as part of his powerbase. Also, Darth Krayt vs. Darth Malgus would be a good matchup. Other potential considerations might include the Thursus Sun Guards, the Mystral Shadow Guard, Wraith Squadron (or Rogue Squadron), the NJO (circa 20 ABY) vs. the Jedi Covenant. Edited March 10, 2013 by Ventessel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Has Darth Vader been considered as a Kaggath combatant? He has a squadron of Star Destroyers; the 501st is his personal legion, Vader's Fist; numerous apprentices have been trained by him and could be used as part of his powerbase.So Death Squadron and Vader's Fist? Good call. I'm also considering Obi-Wan Kenobi and the 212th Attack Battalion/Utapau invasion Force. Just need some matchups, I could put them together but I think there forces are two similar. Well, Vader's force is basically an upgraded version of Obi-Wan's in every respect. Any suggestions are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) So Death Squadron and Vader's Fist? Good call. I'm also considering Obi-Wan Kenobi and the 212th Attack Battalion/Utapau invasion Force. Just need some matchups, I could put them together but I think there forces are two similar. Well, Vader's force is basically an upgraded version of Obi-Wan's in every respect. Any suggestions are welcome. Not to mention that Vader and Obi-Wan are almost identical as personal combatants on top of that. What about Darth Caedus? His flagship, the Anakin Solo would make a good matchup for the Executor. Other elements from the Galactic Alliance Navy could make up the rest of Caedus' fleet (they're MC80 cruisers, Endurance fleet carriers, and Nebula-class Star Destroyers for the most part). Throw in Garen Malek as Vader's apprentice and Ben Skywalker as Caedus' and this could get interesting. Caedus also has the Galactic Alliance Guard, his personal secret police and intelligence network. Darth Vader has his probe droids, his skills as a fighter pilot, etc. For the sake of clarity, perhaps Vader should be assessed at the arguable peak of his power, sometime around the time of Empire Strikes Back. Edited March 10, 2013 by Ventessel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) Not to mention that Vader and Obi-Wan are almost identical as personal combatants on top of that. What about Darth Caedus? His flagship, the Anakin Solo would make a good matchup for the Executor. Other elements from the Galactic Alliance Navy could make up the rest of Caedus' fleet (they're MC80 cruisers, Endurance fleet carriers, and Nebula-class Star Destroyers for the most part). Throw in Garen Malek as Vader's apprentice and Ben Skywalker as Caedus' and this could get interesting. Caedus also has the Galactic Alliance Guard, his personal secret police and intelligence network. Darth Vader has his probe droids, his skills as a fighter pilot, etc. For the sake of clarity, perhaps Vader should be assessed at the arguable peak of his power, sometime around the time of Empire Strikes Back. Well the peak of Vader's power is ROTJ. Edited March 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 What about Darth Caedus? His flagship, the Anakin Solo would make a good matchup for the Executor. Other elements from the Galactic Alliance Navy could make up the rest of Caedus' fleet (they're MC80 cruisers, Endurance fleet carriers, and Nebula-class Star Destroyers for the most part). Throw in Garen Malek as Vader's apprentice and Ben Skywalker as Caedus' and this could get interesting. Caedus also has the Galactic Alliance Guard, his personal secret police and intelligence network. Darth Vader has his probe droids, his skills as a fighter pilot, etc.Perhaps, but Caedus doesn't have a definitive ground force and his fleets possess some similarities to Vader's... Another option would be Darth Malgus, he has appeared in the prievous Kaggath but not in a 'battleground' format. He's go fleets, a space station, powerful Sith allies, a large ground force and a battlefield - Ilum. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 We've seen far too much of Malgus on these forums. I'd rather hash out the details of Caedus' forces for a battlefield consideration, since they exist and there's a wealth of information available on the weapons of the time period. Furthermore, Caedus' forces are differentiated from Vader's in many interesting ways. Compare the composition of their fighter corps, etc. as a starting point. Caedus is basically like Rebel Alliance enhanced. I think that if the composition of their forces was set to be roughly equal, not accounting for differences in armament and vehicle choice, that you would have two technologically comparable forces led by capable Sith Lords who both have demonstrated a sound grasp of strategy and are accomplished duelists themselves. Also, they're both new to Kaggath, so it would be a refreshing break from the Traya, Revan, Malgus, Vitiate, Palpatine types who've been hashed out time and time again here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) We've seen far too much of Malgus on these forums. I'd rather hash out the details of Caedus' forces for a battlefield consideration, since they exist and there's a wealth of information available on the weapons of the time period. Furthermore, Caedus' forces are differentiated from Vader's in many interesting ways. Compare the composition of their fighter corps, etc. as a starting point. Caedus is basically like Rebel Alliance enhanced. I think that if the composition of their forces was set to be roughly equal, not accounting for differences in armament and vehicle choice, that you would have two technologically comparable forces led by capable Sith Lords who both have demonstrated a sound grasp of strategy and are accomplished duelists themselves. Also, they're both new to Kaggath, so it would be a refreshing break from the Traya, Revan, Malgus, Vitiate, Palpatine types who've been hashed out time and time again here.Hmmm, but it eliminates the possibility of a ground battle, and a Caedus' fleet is at somewhat a disadvantage compared to Vader's given the lack of a powerful capital ship. (While Malgus could have the Ascendant Spear.) But it is a possibility. P.S. Still need a matchup for the Ohnaka Gang, Nightsisters are no longer an option. Edited March 10, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird_of_Thunder Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Death Watch under Pre Vizla vs. Ohnaka Gang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hmmm, but it eliminates the possibility of a ground battle, and a Caedus' fleet is at somewhat a disadvantage compared to Vader's given the lack of a powerful capital ship. (While Malgus could have the Ascendant Spear.) But it is a possibility. P.S. Still need a matchup for the Ohnaka Gang, Nightsisters are no longer an option. Caedus had the Imperial Remnant's Megador Super Star Destroyer as well as the Anakin Solo, if you want to take his fleet at full size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Death Watch under Pre Vizla vs. Ohnaka Gang'fraid Death Watch already has a match. And I think the Death Watch would win that battle. They're just better fighters, tacticians etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Hmmm, but it eliminates the possibility of a ground battle, and a Caedus' fleet is at somewhat a disadvantage compared to Vader's given the lack of a powerful capital ship. (While Malgus could have the Ascendant Spear.) But it is a possibility. P.S. Still need a matchup for the Ohnaka Gang, Nightsisters are no longer an option. Caedus will have Galactic Alliance troops as his ground forces, and there's plenty of technical specs on the vehicles and air support they use. And I mentioned the Anakin Solo in my first post about Caedus, it's more than adequate for a powerful flagship. And the Endurance class fleet carriers give him a massive edge over Vader in starfighter deployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird_of_Thunder Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 i got one! Darth Maul's Shadow Collective. its like a crime empire ruled by Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 i got one! Darth Maul's Shadow Collective. its like a crime empire ruled by Sith.Too tough for the Ohnaka Gang, but definitely a group I'd like to include... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Not to mention that Vader and Obi-Wan are almost identical as personal combatants on top of that. What about Darth Caedus? His flagship, the Anakin Solo would make a good matchup for the Executor. Other elements from the Galactic Alliance Navy could make up the rest of Caedus' fleet (they're MC80 cruisers, Endurance fleet carriers, and Nebula-class Star Destroyers for the most part). Throw in Garen Malek as Vader's apprentice and Ben Skywalker as Caedus' and this could get interesting. Caedus also has the Galactic Alliance Guard, his personal secret police and intelligence network. Darth Vader has his probe droids, his skills as a fighter pilot, etc. For the sake of clarity, perhaps Vader should be assessed at the arguable peak of his power, sometime around the time of Empire Strikes Back. You'd have to throw Tahri into this as Caedus' apprentice, remember Ben Skywalker quit being loyal to Jacen at the same instant that Jacen killed Mara Jade Skywalker and became Caedus. Ben was never really Caedus' apprentice, and only seemed that would happen in 1 book (Inferno) and if it wasn't for a complete fluke Ben actually would have ran the fledgling sith lord through the back with his lightsaber... Plus you'd have to throw in the factors of Luke Skywalker and such, because Ben and Jacen were both grandchildren of Darth Vader... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 You'd have to throw Tahri into this as Caedus' apprentice, remember Ben Skywalker quit being loyal to Jacen at the same instant that Jacen killed Mara Jade Skywalker and became Caedus. Ben was never really Caedus' apprentice, and only seemed that would happen in 1 book (Inferno) and if it wasn't for a complete fluke Ben actually would have ran the fledgling sith lord through the back with his lightsaber... Plus you'd have to throw in the factors of Luke Skywalker and such, because Ben and Jacen were both grandchildren of Darth Vader... Ben Skywalker and Galen Marek would make a better match up, though. Tahiri is a loser, so that would be boring. If we're counting her as Jacen's apprentice, then just drop both of them, in accordance with the "no outside powers" concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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