By the way, and this is for eveyone: your Influencers are there to speak for you, the community. Reach out to us, let us know what your concerns are and how you want to see the game developed.

Hi Keith,

 

you guys put quite some emphasis on the influencers. Guess as many other and certainly less vocal players, I would really be interested in having the full list of influencers so we can truly get how we are represented.

 

Thanks.

Deewe;9338904]I certainly don't think the game is in good hands with you. I don't mean to personally attack you but the statement that KoTFE and KoTET are good. They aren't.

I won't waste your time explaining why as some others did lengthy posts on the subject.

 

I am going to have to disagree with you. I know people who actually enjoy KoTFE and KoTET so that is a matter of opinion. Now let's not get into how long who has been around the longest as that solves nothing considering both of us have probably been here since before launch.

 

The story for KoTFE and KoTET may not have appealed to some people but it did for others so putting a person down because they happened to like the story is strange considering each person has different tastes unless you are going to demand that everyone has to like everything you do and we both know that is wrong thinking.

 

Did some not like it, yea but did some like it yea they did so neither side is wrong on that matter.

 

As far as the community no one can claim they know the community 100%. I know my influence is limited to those I actually play with and interact with. I don't play with everyone, no one does. Everyone has some sort of influence and making a production out of who has more influence is not going to help. It only alienates people and that is something no one wants as everyone has a different way of playing and each person has that right to play the way she wants.

Edited June 22, 2017 by casirabit

I am going to have to disagree with you. I know people who actually enjoy KoTFE and KoTET so that is a matter of opinion. Now let's not get into how long who has been around the longest as that solves nothing considering both of us have probably been here since before launch.

 

The story for KoTFE and KoTET may not have appealed to some people but it did for others so putting a person down because they happened to like the story is strange considering each person has different tastes unless you are going to demand that everyone has to like everything you do and we both know that is wrong thinking.

 

Did some not like it, yea but did some like it yea they did so neither side is wrong on that matter.

 

 

Meh. The chapters sucked. Some people liked it. Some people didn't. There a far less players since they implemented it. If it was good then where are all the people who enjoyed it?

Meh. The chapters sucked. Some people liked it. Some people didn't. There a far less players since they implemented it. If it was good then where are all the people who enjoyed it?

 

Well considering my guild is still here how about them for starters and of course to you they don't count. To me they do as they are the ones I listen and play with.

Hey everyone!

 

Thanks for all the great feedback and thoughts in this thread! I believe Keith is working on his post to put up later this evening, after which I'll see how much thunder he's stolen before I make my own

 

If he and Eric have got the "how" of feedback pretty well covered, I may just dive into some of the more specific questions I'm seeing here in the thread. Sound good?

 

Sounds good, but you being the story guy, I'd be curious how you are taking the negative feedback on the KOTFE and KOTET/Ikorath storylines, and the desire to get the game back to the war between the Sith and the Republic, as well as return the game to a more "Star Wars" feel?

Hi Keith,

 

you guys put quite some emphasis on the influencers. Guess as many other and certainly less vocal players, I would really be interested in having the full list of influencers so we can truly get how we are represented.

 

Thanks.

 

I know you were asking Keith specifically, but in case they don't answer, here's a list of influencers who have acknowledged they are in the program

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I6LJIwTIFdFP11PzeoSI_jU4Gws25fjUUsln_T8L92I/edit?usp=drivesdk

I am going to have to disagree with you. I know people who actually enjoy KoTFE and KoTET so that is a matter of opinion. Now let's not get into how long who has been around the longest as that solves nothing considering both of us have probably been here since before launch.

 

The story for KoTFE and KoTET may not have appealed to some people but it did for others so putting a person down because they happened to like the story is strange considering each person has different tastes unless you are going to demand that everyone has to like everything you do and we both know that is wrong thinking.

 

Did some not like it, yea but did some like it yea they did so neither side is wrong on that matter.

 

As far as the community no one can claim they know the community 100%. I know my influence is limited to those I actually play with and interact with. I don't play with everyone, no one does. Everyone has some sort of influence and making a production out of who has more influence is not going to help. It only alienates people and that is something no one wants as everyone has a different way of playing and each person has that right to play the way she wants.

 

And I am going to have to disagree with you. It's nice that you have a guild who liked the story.

 

However, I have been a player for 5 years, then took a year off, and am now just back because of the new direction with the new producer.

 

And in that time, I can tell you that there were 2 times there were a mass exodus of players, and both times were over story.

 

The first time was when it was finally announced that the team would not be continuing the 8 separate class stories. That was due to the team turnover, lack of revenue (Cartel Market was not yet implemented), and a smaller operating budget for the new team. However, people left in droves after that, many dropping a line here or on the reddit.

 

The other time was after KotFE launch - people were pretty upset with the story, and still are, and many left again.

 

The thing is, Everything NON-story was pretty solid imho in the KotFE and KotET updates - really good Quality of Life stuff there. But the story, just based on the outrage and posts, drove a ton of people away. And when I say posts, I don't mean a couple of very noisy people making multiple posts - I mean many different, unique posts all wanting to express their discontent before they leave, and all saying it was because the game was not living up to the story it proposed at launch, or lived up to in the original 8 class stories.

 

The game was sold on story being a main pillar of the game. And when it comes to a story, the last thing a writer should ever do is betray the expectations of the reader - you don't build up a story, only to betray all of it because of a change in policy.

 

That being said, if they ever decide to refocus on what people loved about the original story, I think they'd have a real shot at courting back the people who left - there's a dearth of Star Wars games out there, and the MMO scene is pretty dry too. That leaves an opportunity to get back some of the people who left, who I guarantee would be likely as blown away by the QoL changes as I was after a year off.

 

The only question is, is the dev team willing to do that? Or will they ride a sinking story nobody asked for to the bottom?

The playerbase doesn't want another 3-6 months of PvP Mercenary overpopulation.

 

Wow you are on a one track mind with this. I think most forum readers have gotten the what and the why by now. I believe that these changes will affect the merc overpopulation. To summarize why since pve and pvp gearing are intertwined ArsGunn dominance in pve won't bleed into pvp as much. Also as gearing has become more alt friendly people are more able to switch.

 

The playerbase doesn't want half assed class changes.

Why? Because there is only one way you can do balance right. And that is by taking everything into account.

Both DPS/HPS/DTPS as well as the cooldowns and abilities that they are intertwined with.

 

Why are these half-assed? Why do you think your way of balance is better then another? Often in multivariable problems you try to isolate one variable to find its affects. Balance in swtor is a multivariate problem. PVE balance has been out of whack far longer than PVP balance. I feel it is appropriate that they focus on a few variables and then reassess. Btw please take this to another on topic forum.

 

I

Your SWTOR account number reads #4,556,867 whereas mine is #126. Guess I also pretty well know the community. Top of that I've been aware of SWTOR development before it was even announced and have quite some knowledge of behind the scene decisions and issues.

 

Ad hominems are boring. Argue the content not the poster. See above.

 

Great. Now can we get some guidelines on how to make our feedback more helpful/understandable to the team?

 

One thing that I find that annoys me, and must annoy the team is often times forum discussions get really repetitive without offering any additional insight other then some sense of scale. How does this play into the feedback process? If something is pointed out by one person with good reasoning is that any different then many people offering good reasoning, no reasoning, or wrong reasoning. This problem is partially solved on reddit through the up/down vote process, but not completely. Often people will repeat things because they feel like they are not being heard. Is there a way to address this?

Just want to stick out that story focus does not mean that the story presented was a perfect fit for everyone. Reasons for discontent are much more complex than: people don't like that much story. Some didn't like the story, some didn't like the format it came in, some didn't like what was omitted, some didn't like the amount that was given like with so many new companions, and on. It's a really complex problem.

Most players got the idea behind it and it made sense.

 

What game were you playing? Certainly wasn't this one.

 

GC was (and to a degree still is) a shambles until 5.2 got it to the point that players could effectively gear up ignoring it completely again.

And I am going to have to disagree with you. It's nice that you have a guild who liked the story.

 

However, I have been a player for 5 years, then took a year off, and am now just back because of the new direction with the new producer.

 

And in that time, I can tell you that there were 2 times there were a mass exodus of players, and both times were over story.

 

The first time was when it was finally announced that the team would not be continuing the 8 separate class stories. That was due to the team turnover, lack of revenue (Cartel Market was not yet implemented), and a smaller operating budget for the new team. However, people left in droves after that, many dropping a line here or on the reddit.

 

The other time was after KotFE launch - people were pretty upset with the story, and still are, and many left again.

 

The thing is, Everything NON-story was pretty solid imho in the KotFE and KotET updates - really good Quality of Life stuff there. But the story, just based on the outrage and posts, drove a ton of people away. And when I say posts, I don't mean a couple of very noisy people making multiple posts - I mean many different, unique posts all wanting to express their discontent before they leave, and all saying it was because the game was not living up to the story it proposed at launch, or lived up to in the original 8 class stories.

 

The game was sold on story being a main pillar of the game. And when it comes to a story, the last thing a writer should ever do is betray the expectations of the reader - you don't build up a story, only to betray all of it because of a change in policy.

 

That being said, if they ever decide to refocus on what people loved about the original story, I think they'd have a real shot at courting back the people who left - there's a dearth of Star Wars games out there, and the MMO scene is pretty dry too. That leaves an opportunity to get back some of the people who left, who I guarantee would be likely as blown away by the QoL changes as I was after a year off.

 

The only question is, is the dev team willing to do that? Or will they ride a sinking story nobody asked for to the bottom?

 

My point was you don't run down another person's view point because you disagree with it. People can have different opinions but informing someone that just because they liked something they were doing it all wrong is not the way to go. Accept the fact everyone has different view and different ways of playing is how you should go about it. We don't need to run off a player or a group of players because they see things differently and that is something I been watching people do just because they have a different opinion and that is something that is sad to see. If someone likes it good, if someone does that is good too but putting another player down because they see something different only hurts the game in the long run. I have seen this attitude since launch and that is what actually hurts the game. I don't understand how it is so hard to accept another players view point even if it differs from yours. Is that really so hard to do?

I am going to have to disagree with you. I know people who actually enjoy KoTFE and KoTET so that is a matter of opinion. Now let's not get into how long who has been around the longest as that solves nothing considering both of us have probably been here since before launch.

 

The story for KoTFE and KoTET may not have appealed to some people but it did for others so putting a person down because they happened to like the story is strange considering each person has different tastes unless you are going to demand that everyone has to like everything you do and we both know that is wrong thinking.

 

Did some not like it, yea but did some like it yea they did so neither side is wrong on that matter.

 

As far as the community no one can claim they know the community 100%. I know my influence is limited to those I actually play with and interact with. I don't play with everyone, no one does. Everyone has some sort of influence and making a production out of who has more influence is not going to help. It only alienates people and that is something no one wants as everyone has a different way of playing and each person has that right to play the way she wants.

Seems you missed the part where I was answering sam-marc not you.

 

Also (s)he was the one to bring the longevity into the discussion.

 

You are right the story pleased some players. Don't have the data whether it was the majority, though from a writing and story-line standpoint is wasn't that good. Again no blame on the writers.

 

Finally your influence might be limited but it's not how he presented it and somehow Erice message wasn't in that vein either vs the forums.

Great question! The most important thing you can ever put in feedback is why. Saying that you do or don't like something is helpful, telling us why is invaluable. This way when I am passing feedback on to the team I can highlight not only just sentiment (positive or negative) but also give supporting context for that feeling.

 

-eric

 

Hi Eric, Thanks for the info, it's appreciated.

 

Will Keith will be answering the part in my post about changing direction based on feedback.

 

But if you guys are already on the path, do you ever stop and say, "wow, look, the overwhelming feedback says we are going in the wrong direction, should we turn around or just ignore it?".

Where along the journey is the point of no return. Is it before the bus starts moving, before the bus approaches the corner, before the cliff, as you drive go off the cliff or when you crash?

Do you ever swerve, turn or put the brakes on?

.....if all our feedback does is "nudge" the steering a little, you'll still drive off the cliff and there was really no point in us giving it.

I've also been wondering why you don't make use of surveys to your subscribers. Ones that you could place on the login screen for "subscribers" only to answer.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Icykill_

The other time was after KotFE launch - people were pretty upset with the story, and still are, and many left again.

 

The thing is, Everything NON-story was pretty solid imho in the KotFE and KotET updates - really good Quality of Life stuff there.

 

You have the timing right but the cause wrong. Lack of group content was the real killer (the refocusing on group content for this year shows that) plus the decision to give everything up to the most recent chapter to new subs which meant story players could stop their sub, resub in 6 months, and get all 16 chapters at once. story brings people to the game, but the other content (that BW ignored for 2 years) keeps them here.

Great question! The most important thing you can ever put in feedback is why. Saying that you do or don't like something is helpful, telling us why is invaluable. This way when I am passing feedback on to the team I can highlight not only just sentiment (positive or negative) but also give supporting context for that feeling.

 

-eric

 

As the forums cover only a "narrow" bandwidth of the player base, are there better formats to communicate our feedback that will lend more weight to it other than twitter.

I personally don't use twitter or Facebook and as you pointed out, Reddit is lumped in with these official forums. I would assume not everyone uses twitter to post about swtor. So it seems weird that you would lend so much weight to twitter posts that can be made by anyone, even people who don't play the game or at worst, wish to do it harm.

It kind of seems a bit backwards because as you pointed out, the official forum posts are only from your subscribers. Considering the subscribers are your "paying customers", shouldnt the forum subscribers feedback lend more weight to your decision making than random social media posts made by anyone with a twitter account.

Hi Keith,

 

you guys put quite some emphasis on the influencers. Guess as many other and certainly less vocal players, I would really be interested in having the full list of influencers so we can truly get how we are represented.

 

Thanks.

 

I too would like to know this.

How many influences are there and who influences them?

Is it possible for us to influence them into representing us more and not just themselves?

 

 

You get the idea...truth be told, I don't have time to read everything, but I also get messages from a variety of people using social media, email, LinkedIn, forums, and PMs. With the exception of PMs I try to to personally respond back to every one of them in a timely matter (sometimes right away). PMs - honestly, I have so many I can't possibly answer them. What I've decided to do with those is simply read and pass them along to someone on my team to review and decide how to handle. You won't get direct response, but the details will be communicated to the team, and hopefully, you'll notice something you've suggested has been implemented.

 

Keith

I have to take exception to this part.

I was told by your Customer Service when I called to contact one of you via the forums.

No one responded.

 

You can't have your CS use this as a legitimate answer if there is no response at your end.

Wellll...I was just going to sit back and read all the discourse, but both Eric and Charles committed me to posting tonight about feedback, so with it getting late here in Texas, I figured OK, stop reading and start typing.

 

Since Eric already explained where we get feedback and essentially how we use it, let me provide some perspective about what I look for and what's important to me.

 

• Specific ideas about gameplay improvements

• Ideas on how we can enhance existing game features

• Conversations about Gearing, Class Balance

• Details about likes and dislikes about an area or type of content

• How we can improve communication and provide better insight

• Kudos for the team when we do something right

• Constructive criticism when we don't do things right. Note I tend to read everything, while disregarding rants or dumping on the dev team as I don't find it helpful

• Virtually all of the comments in our discussion threads

 

You get the idea...truth be told, I don't have time to read everything, but I also get messages from a variety of people using social media, email, LinkedIn, forums, and PMs. With the exception of PMs I try to to personally respond back to every one of them in a timely matter (sometimes right away). PMs - honestly, I have so many I can't possibly answer them. What I've decided to do with those is simply read and pass them along to someone on my team to review and decide how to handle. You won't get direct response, but the details will be communicated to the team, and hopefully, you'll notice something you've suggested has been implemented.

 

I like how Xo-Lara put it about minor changes can get added in quickly, but major changes need to be worked into our pipeline. Yep, that's exactly right!

 

From all the messages I have received and reading many posts here on the forums, it's quite apparent the change in communication has been greatly appreciated. Internally, there's also an increased willingness to provide you with better insight about how and why we made a decision and to ask your opinions. Personally, I like seeing this happen and look forward to fostering even more communication.

 

So, what does any of that have to do with "How does our feedback work"? Everything. Specifically, I leverage all the feedback you provide, I personalize it by blending it into how I play the game, then I communicate it to the Dev Team, and I follow up to see how best to respond, determine the priority of the request, add it to the backlog, or adjust the schedule to incorporate the change into the game. But, we all know talk is cheap and until there's action behind our words, skepticism remains. I'm OK with that!

 

--Keith-

 

Hi Keith,

 

I know it's late and I appreciate you posting outside of work hours. But no one has yet answered the questions I posed in my original post.

 

But if you guys are already on the path, do you ever stop and say, "wow, look, the overwhelming feedback says we are going in the wrong direction, should we turn around or just ignore it?".

 

Where along the journey is the point of no return. Is it before the bus starts moving, before the bus approaches the corner, before the cliff, as you drive go off the cliff or when you crash?

 

Do you ever swerve, turn or put the brakes on?

 

.....if all our feedback does is "nudge" the steering a little, you'll still drive off the cliff and there was really no point in us giving it.

Wellll...I was just going to sit back and read all the discourse, but both Eric and Charles committed me to posting tonight about feedback, so with it getting late here in Texas, I figured OK, stop reading and start typing.

 

Since Eric already explained where we get feedback and essentially how we use it, let me provide some perspective about what I look for and what's important to me.

 

• Specific ideas about gameplay improvements

• Ideas on how we can enhance existing game features

• Conversations about Gearing, Class Balance

• Details about likes and dislikes about an area or type of content

• How we can improve communication and provide better insight

• Kudos for the team when we do something right

• Constructive criticism when we don't do things right. Note I tend to read everything, while disregarding rants or dumping on the dev team as I don't find it helpful

• Virtually all of the comments in our discussion threads

 

You get the idea...truth be told, I don't have time to read everything, but I also get messages from a variety of people using social media, email, LinkedIn, forums, and PMs. With the exception of PMs I try to to personally respond back to every one of them in a timely matter (sometimes right away). PMs - honestly, I have so many I can't possibly answer them. What I've decided to do with those is simply read and pass them along to someone on my team to review and decide how to handle. You won't get direct response, but the details will be communicated to the team, and hopefully, you'll notice something you've suggested has been implemented.

 

I like how Xo-Lara put it about minor changes can get added in quickly, but major changes need to be worked into our pipeline. Yep, that's exactly right!

 

From all the messages I have received and reading many posts here on the forums, it's quite apparent the change in communication has been greatly appreciated. Internally, there's also an increased willingness to provide you with better insight about how and why we made a decision and to ask your opinions. Personally, I like seeing this happen and look forward to fostering even more communication.

 

So, what does any of that have to do with "How does our feedback work"? Everything. Specifically, I leverage all the feedback you provide, I personalize it by blending it into how I play the game, then I communicate it to the Dev Team, and I follow up to see how best to respond, determine the priority of the request, add it to the backlog, or adjust the schedule to incorporate the change into the game. But, we all know talk is cheap and until there's action behind our words, skepticism remains. I'm OK with that!

 

--Keith-

 

Good post, thanks for the insight.

 

As a thought on future communication though - you should all look into making your presence more seen on reddit as you have done on these forums.

Reason being is there are lot of non subs there that you are have a shot at attracting back into paying customers if they see this same level of increased communication there as well - imo anyway.

 

Engaging the non paying player base has the benefit of attracting them to more specifically post on what is deterring them from paying (aside from "poor" or "I think it should all be free!") which can help give you decent insights into directions to take to increase the paying player base.

I generally believe anything you do to please that aspect into paying is going to be well received by those already paying (and well if you are communicating correctly you would have already quizzed your paying player base on these changes ahead of time to be sure).

 

Plus on a whole the medium is generally more positive than the forums I've found over the past couple of years since using reddit (even though the forums had me believe it was a negative cesspool which was why I had previously avoided it) - debate is more constructive and arguments more focused instead of the more personal nature they seem to take here.

 

The whole up vote/down vote system seems to work wonders I've found for the majority of topics with the obvious trolls or people being negative for negativities sake being down voted to the point of being invisible.

 

Now none of this is an "instead of forums" point of view but an "as well as".

Wellll...I was just going to sit back and read all the discourse, but both Eric and Charles committed me to posting tonight about feedback, so with it getting late here in Texas, I figured OK, stop reading and start typing.

 

Since Eric already explained where we get feedback and essentially how we use it, let me provide some perspective about what I look for and what's important to me.

 

• Specific ideas about gameplay improvements

• Ideas on how we can enhance existing game features

• Conversations about Gearing, Class Balance

• Details about likes and dislikes about an area or type of content

• How we can improve communication and provide better insight

• Kudos for the team when we do something right

• Constructive criticism when we don't do things right. Note I tend to read everything, while disregarding rants or dumping on the dev team as I don't find it helpful

• Virtually all of the comments in our discussion threads

 

You get the idea...truth be told, I don't have time to read everything, but I also get messages from a variety of people using social media, email, LinkedIn, forums, and PMs. With the exception of PMs I try to to personally respond back to every one of them in a timely matter (sometimes right away). PMs - honestly, I have so many I can't possibly answer them. What I've decided to do with those is simply read and pass them along to someone on my team to review and decide how to handle. You won't get direct response, but the details will be communicated to the team, and hopefully, you'll notice something you've suggested has been implemented.

 

I like how Xo-Lara put it about minor changes can get added in quickly, but major changes need to be worked into our pipeline. Yep, that's exactly right!

 

From all the messages I have received and reading many posts here on the forums, it's quite apparent the change in communication has been greatly appreciated. Internally, there's also an increased willingness to provide you with better insight about how and why we made a decision and to ask your opinions. Personally, I like seeing this happen and look forward to fostering even more communication.

 

So, what does any of that have to do with "How does our feedback work"? Everything. Specifically, I leverage all the feedback you provide, I personalize it by blending it into how I play the game, then I communicate it to the Dev Team, and I follow up to see how best to respond, determine the priority of the request, add it to the backlog, or adjust the schedule to incorporate the change into the game. But, we all know talk is cheap and until there's action behind our words, skepticism remains. I'm OK with that!

 

--Keith-

 

 

One thing I noticed was absent:

 

Feedback about the current KotFE storyline.

 

So I guess you guys are committed to it, even if people hate it, feel it deviates too much from the essence of star wars, disregards the story that came before in Shadow of Revan and prior, and some even left over it?

 

Do you guys listen to any feedback at ALL regarding the creative direction of the story?

One thing I noticed was absent:

 

Feedback about the current KotFE storyline.

 

So I guess you guys are committed to it, even if people hate it, feel it deviates too much from the essence of star wars, disregards the story that came before in Shadow of Revan and prior, and some even left over it?

 

Do you guys listen to any feedback at ALL regarding the creative direction of the story?

 

Who are these "people" you are speaking for, certainly not me.

I like the story line and if they progress it a lot more down the 3rd force aspect idea then I will like it even more.

Who are these "people" you are speaking for, certainly not me.

I like the story line and if they progress it a lot more down the 3rd force aspect idea then I will like it even more.

 

I'm one of those people he speaks of. I find nothing iconic about Sith and Jedi teaming up to fight ROBOTS. It's just stupid. Kofte and Kotet were completely stupid and did a dis service to star wars as a whole. Force imbued blasters? Why didn't Han have one of those? Why didn't luke have c3p0 go all gods of the machines bad *** on the Empire?

 

I'll tell you why. Cause it's stupid!

If I could get a solid star wars MMO out of a book I'd go grab one. But you can't cause an MMO is a video game. You know what you can find in a book? Story. So why don't you grab a book and stop ruining this MMO by asking for more story.