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It's no fun to be constantly controlled


StrikePrice

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Because the immunity is so short, and rotational, you're going to waste CC into it. But you're not going to do that willingly.

 

So what this becomes is just a contest between players/teams of who wastes less CC to determine a winner.

You might as well just roll a dice.

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Because the immunity is so short, and rotational, you're going to waste CC into it. But you're not going to do that willingly.

 

So what this becomes is just a contest between players/teams of who wastes less CC to determine a winner.

You might as well just roll a dice.

 

 

It removes dice rolling actually. It provides full counter play to CC but it depends on the player thinking about when and what to dodge. They can dodge a powerful attack or dodge a part of the set up to the attack and if they choose wisely they will escape getting downed in a CC chain focus attempt.

 

There is an entirely larger discussion that would need to happen around which abilities to attach the I-frame to and what type of CD would be "Balanced". BW would need to tighten the immunity length (maybe less than 1 sec) to require decent timing to actually dodge the attack you intend to dodge.

 

If you would rather not bother and stick to what we have that is freedom of choice at its best...it makes sense for you to do so if you main a CC heavy stealth class.

 

I main a Shadow and still would prefer a faster paced combat with more counter play options.

Edited by Soljin
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I play all classes, and I don't think there is any lack of counterplay at all.

 

If you get ganged up on whilst stunned and nobody helps you, you're meant to die of it.

 

In your opinion...they are meant to die when ganged up on..funny as it is that doesnt always happen now. What Bioware's approach to design at the start is not what they think now and likely will change even further before the game closes.

 

It's an interesting idea to use I-frames its not a new concept and is used in other MMO(s) already.

 

You don't like the idea of I-frames I get it...Enough said.

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In all fairness, the only classes that avoid the gank do so by design.

 

Ops and Assassins are meant to be slippery opportunists, for example. While I won't debate their potency, I do think that every class is legit viable in the scenarios they were built to be.

Edited by TitusOfTides
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In all fairness, the only classes that avoid the gank do so by design.

 

Ops and Assassins are meant to be slippery opportunists, for example. While I won't debate their potency, I do think that every class is legit viable in the scenarios they were built to be.

 

Mercenary and Jugg are not on target for their original design by any means. Jugg can't stay in a fight under pressure as a supposedly aggressive melee dps and Merc can face tank as a supposed high utility ranged DPS...

 

That aside short I-frames added to existing abilities wouldn't change class design philosophy.

Edited by Soljin
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Mercenary and Jugg are not on target for their original design by any means. Jugg can't stay in a fight under pressure as a supposedly aggressive melee dps and Merc can face tank as a supposed high utility ranged DPS...

 

That aside short I-frames added to existing abilities wouldn't change class design philosophy.

 

Those are good points. I personally am a fan of i-frame abilities in other games and would be interested to see how they could positively affect the state of the game.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable for each class to have some sort of ability in the vein of Op roll, but if we start adding them for the sake if adding them we could be in store for a major disaster. I think 1 ability per class is more than fair, you just have to find the right flavor for each class. For example, make Blade Blitz/Mad Dash give 1.5s immunity on Maras/Sents. Rocket Out on Mercs, etc. If every class has a stun breaker and a brief 1.5s immunity ability to use strategically, I dont think you'd see a lot of the complaints you do now.

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Those are good points. I personally am a fan of i-frame abilities in other games and would be interested to see how they could positively affect the state of the game.

 

I don't think it's unreasonable for each class to have some sort of ability in the vein of Op roll, but if we start adding them for the sake if adding them we could be in store for a major disaster. I think 1 ability per class is more than fair, you just have to find the right flavor for each class. For example, make Blade Blitz/Mad Dash give 1.5s immunity on Maras/Sents. Rocket Out on Mercs, etc. If every class has a stun breaker and a brief 1.5s immunity ability to use strategically, I dont think you'd see a lot of the complaints you do now.

 

I agree with what you have posted.

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I play all classes, and I don't think there is any lack of counterplay at all.

 

If you get ganged up on whilst stunned and nobody helps you, you're meant to die of it.

 

You play a sage and tell me that you have enough CC breakers to stay alive!

 

I think you must be the smartest person out the ...so how about enlightening me with your extensive knowledge on how to counterplay, when stunned all the time.

 

Sorry That is bull!! (i dont see your words as helping anyone)

Edited by darkofblue
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You play a sage and tell me that you have enough CC breakers to stay alive!

 

I think you must be the smartest person out the ...so how about enlightening me with your extensive knowledge on how to counterplay, when stunned all the time.

 

Sorry That is bull!! (i dont see your words as helping anyone)

Try placing your phasewalk out of sight when you first enter the match. nothing gets you out of an ***whoopin faster than just teleporting somewhere else. It's pvp so you'll have to suck it up when you die in WZs, thats whats supposed to happen when you're out played.

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Try placing your phasewalk out of sight when you first enter the match. nothing gets you out of an ***whoopin faster than just teleporting somewhere else. It's pvp so you'll have to suck it up when you die in WZs, thats whats supposed to happen when you're out played.

 

When you are stunned so you cant hit any key that really doesn't mean much to use Phasewalk..lol ....as for out played, :/

 

I have seen the imps at the top of our spawn point on Odessen proving ground and held us all from getting out. AND if you did get out the whole team was there to kill us. IS that what you call... out played?

 

THIS is the stupid stuff that takes place which is killing PVP.

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When you are stunned so you cant hit any key that really doesn't mean much to use Phasewalk..lol ....as for out played, :/

 

I have seen the imps at the top of our spawn point on Odessen proving ground and held us all from getting out. AND if you did get out the whole team was there to kill us. IS that what you call... out played?

 

THIS is the stupid stuff that takes place which is killing PVP.

 

You can phasewalk while stunned.

 

You are right though, this is indeed the stupid stuff.

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You can phasewalk while stunned.

 

Sometimes I glitch when I use phasewalk when stunned. It fires off, but I go nowhere, even though the charge gets used. Only happens when I use it in a stun. Sometimes, I fire it off when stunned and I phasewalk as intended. So, I don't know what causes that, but it happens.

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Sometimes I glitch when I use phasewalk when stunned. It fires off, but I go nowhere, even though the charge gets used. Only happens when I use it in a stun. Sometimes, I fire it off when stunned and I phasewalk as intended. So, I don't know what causes that, but it happens.

 

Force push bugs out phasewalk if you try to use it while you're being pushed or directly afterwards. Or you could be slightly out of range, or you could be netted.

 

It could just be some weird bug, not discounting that either. But either way, they should really change phasewalk so that it doesn't get used when it won't actually work. It should just become unusable like other abilities do when they're not available.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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You play a sage and tell me that you have enough CC breakers to stay alive!

 

I think you must be the smartest person out the ...so how about enlightening me with your extensive knowledge on how to counterplay, when stunned all the time.

 

Sorry That is bull!! (i dont see your words as helping anyone)

If you go into the fray without a phasewalk placed somewhere, without a bubble on you to blind the attackers and without CCing people yourself you're just asking to get killed. Seen lots of sorcs/sages like this but also seen lots who'd kite your entire team until the end of the day while you are just going down. Seriously though, PvP was never balanced class-wise but being globalled is something different entirely from playing a "wrong class" who actually has plenty of counterplay potential.

 

Main issue in whole this discussion is how you make a team pvp all about you and your ability to counter something you're not supposed to. If you die because of no peel at all while being constantly CCed and your team doesn't manage to do the same or more to the enemy, well, you go down - typically as a team. If you just freecast while your teammates are getting globalled instead of CCing the attackers and go like "But I did so much damage how are we losing", well guess what.

To clarify - I cannot and will not make assumptions about your play or situation specifically but all classes have some counterplay to CC indeed, but if you're going down and feel permacontrolled and can't do anything else about it it likely means someone else on your team isn't doing something they're supposed to. Under no circumstances you're supposed to be able to completely cover your teammates shortcomings.

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You play a sage and tell me that you have enough CC breakers to stay alive!

 

I think you must be the smartest person out the ...so how about enlightening me with your extensive knowledge on how to counterplay, when stunned all the time.

 

Sorry That is bull!! (i dont see your words as helping anyone)

OMG! My sorc and sage have the most durability of almost any class lol (my lethality op is harder to kill, slightly). Let's talk just what you get out of the box:

 

Static Barrier

10% damage reduction when using my attacks (Clamoring Force)

15% damage reduction from tk burst (Tk Refuge)

2 x instant cast self heals both on short cooldowns

8 seconds of invulnerability (Enduring Bastion)

Teleport

General attack slows target

Additional slow

Front cone knockback

DR when static barrier ends

 

Now let's talk about how I can spec:

3% additional DR

AoE stun when bubble bursts

Additional 25% DR for Cloud Mind (Blockout)

Additional 15% DR on insta-self heal (Valorous Spirit)

Insta-cast 8 second mez

30% DR when you are stunned

Enduring Bastion heals you nearly to full

Force speed removes all movement imparting effects.

Can add a slow to insta-cast DoT

Static Barrier is a self-heal over time

Knockback can be specced to root

Accuracy reduction of target when my stun on them ends

 

This is just off the top of my head. And not to mention tacticals like Endless Barrier. Let me tell you, melee will leave you alone like crazy if you use Endless Barrier and spec your barrier to flash ... barrier->flash->barrier->flash->heal->barrier->flash->repeat repeat repeat

 

I am never never ever 100% without a defensive measure as a sage/sorc.

Edited by StrikePrice
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OMG! My sorc and sage have the most durability of any class lol. Let's talk just what you get out of the box:

 

Static Barrier

10% damage reduction when using my attacks (Clamoring Force)

15% damage reduction from tk burst (Tk Refuge)

2 x instant cast self heals both on short cooldowns

8 seconds of invulnerability (Enduring Bastion)

Teleport

General attack slows target

Additional slow

Front cone knockback

 

Now let's talk about how I can spec:

3% additional DR

AoE stun when bubble bursts

Additional 25% DR for Cloud Mind (Blockout)

Additional 15% DR on insta-self heal (Valorous Spirit)

Insta-cast 8 second mez

30% DR when you are stunned

Enduring Bastion heals you nearly to full

Force speed removes all movement imparting effects.

Can add a slow to insta-cast DoT

Static Barrier is a self-heal over time

Knockback can be specced to root

 

This is just off the top of my head. And not to mention tacticals like Endless Barrier. Let me tell you, melee will leave you alone like crazy if you use Endless Barrier and spec your barrier to flash.

 

I am never never ever 100% without a defensive measure as a sage/sorc.

 

This is a gross overstatement, and very misleading. You listed just about every good utility, but you can't take all of them. If you take stun bubbles and suppression, you can't take instant mez (because surging speed is a must pick). If you take emersion, stun dr and 15% dr on unnatural preservation, you can't take the enduring bastion/bubble healing, etc, etc. Also, the utility that gives enduring bastion increased healing does not even come close to healing you to full anymore.

 

All that being said, surviving as a lightning sorc is not all that difficult. I've seen plenty of bad sorcs run around the map surviving and little else. The trick is being able to survive and still do relevant damage. Very few sorcs are able to accomplish that in ranked (when they're being focused, anyone can freecast on sorc).

 

Also, sorc survivability relies on kiting. It can't facetank nearly as much damage as a merc can with just its dcds.

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This is a gross overstatement, and very misleading ...

It's true, you can't have it all. But, you can have a lot of it. All while doling out massive burst damage. There are lots of other great classes, and I'm not saying sorc/sage is OP, but I am saying sorc/sage is far from a glass cannon like a typical ranged caseter.

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OMG! My sorc and sage have the most durability of almost any class lol (my lethality op is harder to kill, slightly). Let's talk just what you get out of the box:

 

Static Barrier

10% damage reduction when using my attacks (Clamoring Force)

15% damage reduction from tk burst (Tk Refuge)

2 x instant cast self heals both on short cooldowns

8 seconds of invulnerability (Enduring Bastion)

Teleport

General attack slows target

Additional slow

Front cone knockback

DR when static barrier ends

 

Now let's talk about how I can spec:

3% additional DR

AoE stun when bubble bursts

Additional 25% DR for Cloud Mind (Blockout)

Additional 15% DR on insta-self heal (Valorous Spirit)

Insta-cast 8 second mez

30% DR when you are stunned

Enduring Bastion heals you nearly to full

Force speed removes all movement imparting effects.

Can add a slow to insta-cast DoT

Static Barrier is a self-heal over time

Knockback can be specced to root

Accuracy reduction of target when my stun on them ends

 

This is just off the top of my head. And not to mention tacticals like Endless Barrier. Let me tell you, melee will leave you alone like crazy if you use Endless Barrier and spec your barrier to flash ... barrier->flash->barrier->flash->heal->barrier->flash->repeat repeat repeat

 

I am never never ever 100% without a defensive measure as a sage/sorc.

 

If i listed all the "pros" of a class with zero context comparing it to what every other class gets, it would sound impressively powerful.

 

Just lolol when people provide a list of what a class has, then runs with the narrative that is proof it's OP'd with zero context. It means nothing. :rolleyes:

Edited by Lhancelot
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Given how underused the blind bubble utility is in regs, I am really wondering about the context for the "sorcs are squishy" notion. Is it "I have PvE utilities and don't respec for PvP and get hunted down" type of scenario or is it "I use pretty much all of my kiting arsenal and still can't withstand the pressure, going down in 2 CC chains".
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A few days ago (while my internet connection was garbage) I played PvP for the first time in literally years. I was rusty, had 298 gear and was hitting weak as you like...best hit was 40k or something like. In that series of games I did not experience undue CC. Sure, I was stunned, killed, and killed because of stun lock...but I was also able to be effective. Instead of playing for damage (as I normally do), I played objectives to counter my crap damage...and I won 60% of my games. I had fun.

 

Maybe you play on a different server or at a different time, but I did not have too much trouble. I am hooked on PvP in this game again.

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