Disney is actually a fairly well known supporter of gay rights. They've been doing "gay days" at their parks for at least 20 years or so, and the Southern Baptist Convention even organized a large (fairly ineffective) boycott against Disney in 1997 that lasted eight years because Disney extended health benefits to gay partners of employees. Earlier this year, Tokyo Disney decided to allow same-sex marriages (or, at least, a commitment ceremony, since gay marriage is illegal in japan) in the park.

 

Disney is no threat at all to the inclusion of gay romances in TOR.

 

This makes me very happy, had no idea that they are so forward

It's all a matter of perspective. For people who care more about the class stories than the endgame, this is a big deal, whether they're LGBT or not. My smuggler and warrior are still camping at level 1, where they've been for a year now, because I don't want to screw myself out of content that I've been told is coming and that I've planned into those characters' stories.

The point I was making is that all romances end with your class story. Unlike PvP and Ops, there's no real replay value in them (even if you specifically would reroll over and over to replay romances I can guarantee you're in the minority). So say they were to implement them tomorrow... people would burn through the cutscenes in a day and we'd be back where we started with an anemic end game and no campaign progress. I'm looking at the bigger picture.

 

To be blunt, the storylines and character development in this game pale in comparison to Bioware's single player outings. It's understandable considering the sheer volume of content for all the different classes, but still.

 

If that's your primary concern, Dragon Age, Mass Effect or even the original KOTOR games are so much more fulfilling, and already have plenty of SGR options.

 

It just seems weird to me for people to get hung up on such a small part of this game. I've played 3 classes to 50 and the hetero romances have been almost entirely forgettable, especially for my main (male SI). Would a couple of ship cutscenes and a fade to black really make or break the game for you? In light of everything else that needs attention?

It seems the Senator doesn't understand that there is a section of the fanbase that adore the story in this game, any more replay value added on top is huge, regardless of what it is, replay value = story value, that's the point.

The point I was making is that all romances end with your class story. Unlike PvP and Ops, there's no real replay value in them (even if you specifically would reroll over and over to replay romances I can guarantee you're in the minority). So say they were to implement them tomorrow... people would burn through the cutscenes in a day and we'd be back where we started with an anemic end game and no campaign progress. I'm looking at the bigger picture.

 

To be blunt, the storylines and character development in this game pale in comparison to Bioware's single player outings. It's understandable considering the sheer volume of content for all the different classes, but still.

 

If that's your primary concern, Dragon Age, Mass Effect or even the original KOTOR games are so much more fulfilling, and already have plenty of SGR options.

 

It just seems weird to me for people to get hung up on such a small part of this game. I've played 3 classes to 50 and the hetero romances have been almost entirely forgettable, especially for my main (male SI). Would a couple of ship cutscenes and a fade to black really make or break the game for you? In light of everything else that needs attention?

 

Well, if it's so bare then clearly they should work on it some more.

The point I was making is that all romances end with your class story. Unlike PvP and Ops, there's no real replay value in them (even if you specifically would reroll over and over to replay romances I can guarantee you're in the minority). So say they were to implement them tomorrow... people would burn through the cutscenes in a day and we'd be back where we started with an anemic end game and no campaign progress. I'm looking at the bigger picture.

 

Very late comer to the thread, but eh... I haven't really touched TOR in a while to begin with (while keeping my subscription up and supporting the devs in the hopes that I'd actually get to see the content we were promised).... still holding out hope on SGR. Anyways, to answer your comment. Okay, let's agree that we (the people that want to replay the game for the romance options) are the minority. Are you telling me that BW/EA should discriminate against the minority? On that note, people that are interested in SGR are also a minority, no? Should they be discriminated against as well? Heck, one could even go as far as to argue that PvE/PvP (Whichever is more popular in TOR, makes no difference to me) players are a minority as well. Should we go and have the Devs remove the content that said minority is interested in? Put new content for said minority on the back-burner altogether?

 

To be blunt, the storylines and character development in this game pale in comparison to Bioware's single player outings. It's understandable considering the sheer volume of content for all the different classes, but still.

 

If that's your primary concern, Dragon Age, Mass Effect or even the original KOTOR games are so much more fulfilling, and already have plenty of SGR options.

 

Original KOTOR games? Really? One companion in KOTOR2, one minor mention in KOTOR1 that never goes beyond mild flirting? It's lovely that you have an opinion on the matter, but really, do a little bit of research before pointing out places where the people in this thread can get their 'fix' of pixelated SGR with F2B. It's not really about the novelty of it anymore. It's not about having more choices to get the SGR content we're looking for. It's gotten to the point of being about a promise that was made and never realized. Not to mention getting shoved in a corner every time someone decides to open a new thread.

 

It just seems weird to me for people to get hung up on such a small part of this game. I've played 3 classes to 50 and the hetero romances have been almost entirely forgettable, especially for my main (male SI). Would a couple of ship cutscenes and a fade to black really make or break the game for you? In light of everything else that needs attention?

 

What's weird to you is normal to others. The fact that you don't understand why we're here doesn't mean that we don't have the right to be here. For you - sure, they were forgettable. For me... well, I still have fond memories of Vector (The only male companion I'd romance in TOR) even though I haven't played TOR since... March, I think. Some of us enjoy that more than running around a 100x200 meter field with traps and throwing a glowing ball at people in an attempt to run it past an imaginary line and 'score'. Some of us enjoy the story more than going into a raid and performing all sorts of aerial acrobatics in an attempt to not get one-shot by the fifteen different ways to die during boss fights.

 

I only worked one character up to fifty - my female IA. Any other characters I've made since then are likely going to get deleted and remade so that I can experience the entire story arc with the possibility of a same-gender romance. That is my choice, I paid my money to get this game and have been paying a subscription the same as you. I even splurged a bit extra to get the full CE after the beta. It all comes down to this... I pay the same money that you do for this game, so who are you to tell me the way I should play it... or what features I should try and request of the game that I paid for? You don't see me trying to tell Devs to stop putting in PvP or PvE content, do you? Do extend us the same courtesy.

The point I was making is that all romances end with your class story. Unlike PvP and Ops, there's no real replay value in them (even if you specifically would reroll over and over to replay romances I can guarantee you're in the minority).

 

That's subjective. Some people feel that PvP and Ops have no replay value b/c fighting the same big monster boss dude every week with the same mechanics is boring as heck.

 

Also, it's not necessarily about re-rolling to 'replay romance' but to replay the class story in general in which romance is a part of that. This part is lacking right now for some.

 

The 'minority' argument won't fly as there are lots of minorities of people who want stuff in the game that most others don't care about. Justify to me why BW shouldn't try to do things for them, whether they want SGRA's, hood toggles, better open-world PvP, etc. All these little 'minority' groups add up to a lot of players.

 

Players that express feedback/criticism on the forums are a minority to begin with, as most people don't bother.

 

It just seems weird to me for people to get hung up on such a small part of this game. I've played 3 classes to 50 and the hetero romances have been almost entirely forgettable, especially for my main (male SI).

 

Funny enough, you still felt the need to complete them.

Edited November 6, 2012 by stuffystuffs

Very late comer to the thread, but eh... I haven't really touched TOR in a while to begin with (while keeping my subscription up and supporting the devs in the hopes that I'd actually get to see the content we were promised).... still holding out hope on SGR. Anyways, to answer your comment. Okay, let's agree that we (the people that want to replay the game for the romance options) are the minority. Are you telling me that BW/EA should discriminate against the minority? On that note, people that are interested in SGR are also a minority, no? Should they be discriminated against as well?

Discriminated against? Lets not be sensationalistic here. I'm talking about prioritizing.

 

I'm not against SGRs on principle, I just disagree with the level of their importance to the overall success of the game (which I assume is something we all want). If it comes with the level cap increase and new campaign content, it's all good. An entire patch cycle dedicated to this alone would be a complete waste however.

 

Heck, one could even go as far as to argue that PvE/PvP (Whichever is more popular in TOR, makes no difference to me) players are a minority as well. Should we go and have the Devs remove the content that said minority is interested in? Put new content for said minority on the back-burner altogether?

Umm, the devs already do this. End game PvE is an entire tier ahead of PvP at the moment. New PvP content is coming after 1.5, but exactly when is anybody's guess. We still don't have cross server warzones, and we're still in the rated wz pre-season...

 

That said, I would wager the end game PvPers and PvErs make up a much, much larger percentage of the player base than the people specifically clamoring for SGRs.

 

Original KOTOR games? Really? One companion in KOTOR2, one minor mention in KOTOR1 that never goes beyond mild flirting? It's lovely that you have an opinion on the matter, but really, do a little bit of research before pointing out places where the people in this thread can get their 'fix' of pixelated SGR with F2B. It's not really about the novelty of it anymore. It's not about having more choices to get the SGR content we're looking for.

These games aren't dating sims... I really don't know what you guys are expecting here.

 

It's gotten to the point of being about a promise that was made and never realized. Not to mention getting shoved in a corner every time someone decides to open a new thread.

Well there's one thing we can agree on. BW has made a lot of promises about this game and failed to deliver. But this one doesn't stand out as anything special.

 

What's weird to you is normal to others. The fact that you don't understand why we're here doesn't mean that we don't have the right to be here. For you - sure, they were forgettable. For me... well, I still have fond memories of Vector (The only male companion I'd romance in TOR) even though I haven't played TOR since... March, I think. Some of us enjoy that more than running around a 100x200 meter field with traps and throwing a glowing ball at people in an attempt to run it past an imaginary line and 'score'. Some of us enjoy the story more than going into a raid and performing all sorts of aerial acrobatics in an attempt to not get one-shot by the fifteen different ways to die during boss fights.

Fair enough, but then why play an MMO at all? Bioware's single player games are all about story without any of that icky PvP or PvE to get in the way.

 

SWToR's leveling and story were great (for an MMO) but their shallow endgame is the reason they bled off 1mil+ subs. That needs to be improved before anything else. Some extra space sex isn't going to turn things around.

 

I pay the same money that you do for this game, so who are you to tell me the way I should play it... or what features I should try and request of the game that I paid for? You don't see me trying to tell Devs to stop putting in PvP or PvE content, do you? Do extend us the same courtesy.

I haven't told anyone how to play the game, and I haven't said "omg never put in SGRs!!!" I am saying there are much more important things the developers should be working on getting live first, however.

 

Have some perspective.

Umm, the devs already do this. End game PvE is an entire tier ahead of PvP at the moment. New PvP content is coming after 1.5, but exactly when is anybody's guess. We still don't have cross server warzones, and we're still in the rated wz pre-season...

 

It's 1.6 and should be in December.*

 

We're also hoping that 1.6 will be Makeb and come with SGRA's - meaning that same-sex content won't be limited to a patch all to itself, but rather be bundled with story content as Mr. Erickson said it would be back during the Guild Summit.

 

 

*Ms. Berryman, here. A PvP warzone would be a significant content patch, earning its own number, the only patch for November is 1.5 and the last month of the year is December.

Discriminated against? Lets not be sensationalistic here. I'm talking about prioritizing.

 

I'm not against SGRs on principle, I just disagree with the level of their importance to the overall success of the game (which I assume is something we all want). If it comes with the level cap increase and new campaign content, it's all good. An entire patch cycle dedicated to this alone would be a complete waste however.

 

And when will there be enough PvP/PvE content so that prioritizing will work to put in SGRs? I don't know about you, but it takes me exactly one go at a raid and it's boring to me. On that note, I'm a bit of an altoholic. I enjoy leveling characters a lot more than farming the same raid over and over and over again. I'm sure I'm not alone. What I'm trying to say here is... if I was to push for PvE content, it'd come slower and less often than I get bored with it, and then things that are "low-priority" for you like SGRs end up being implemented... never. Fact is, you're asking for more content for the PvP and the PvE crowd. All nice and dandy, I don't object to that... I won't bother with it a whole lot, but I won't oppose it either. What we're doing is asking for more content as well, nothing else. While it may not be game-breaking or game-making, I doubt it will hurt to have it either. And really, if content is low-priority, then what is? In my opinion, it's bug fixes that need addressing first and foremost. Anything beyond that really falls under the same category.

 

But anyway... Nobody's asking that everything else be tossed away or stopped. All we're asking for is some storyline for people that prefer SGR. I'm not playing TOR. I don't want to play it to begin with, not until I have something to tickle my fancy. Why? Because if I get everything to lvl 50 and see all the storylines, then SGR gets implemented... well, I'll be replaying the same thing and skipping everything except the new content? It might be 5%, it might be less, but it's still part of the story... and experiencing it out of context and out of order kind of breaks the entertainment value... at least for me. SGR coming with a game expansion rather than a game patch kind of makes it worse. We have to pay for the right to be of a different sexuality now?

 

Umm, the devs already do this. End game PvE is an entire tier ahead of PvP at the moment. New PvP content is coming after 1.5, but exactly when is anybody's guess. We still don't have cross server warzones, and we're still in the rated wz pre-season...

 

That said, I would wager the end game PvPers and PvErs make up a much, much larger percentage of the player base than the people specifically clamoring for SGRs.

 

Here we go again with majority versus minority. You're saying that I shouldn't go yelling discrimination when you keep going with "We have more of X than Y, so X needs to get more content than Y." That, in and of itself, is discrimination. I know you can't make all players happy. It's simply impossible to get a group of say... one million people together and make sure that everyone is happy while being put in the same situation, even if the situation is to give them each a million dollars a piece. There will always be someone that will find something to complain about. What they do at that point is try their best to make the highest percentage of people playing the game happy. And that, sometimes, includes making changes that affect minorities.

 

These games aren't dating sims... I really don't know what you guys are expecting here.

 

Well there's one thing we can agree on. BW has made a lot of promises about this game and failed to deliver. But this one doesn't stand out as anything special.

 

We're expecting to be given the same thing that any hetero-sexual person gets out of their storyline. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Priorities again... really? The promise was.... "You can expect SGR sometime this year." Well, guess what, this year is almost over... and we're not getting even a hint of it being near completion. I might be wrong here, it could come next patch, but honestly... not even a peep when PvE content gets previews practically two patches ahead?

 

Fair enough, but then why play an MMO at all? Bioware's single player games are all about story without any of that icky PvP or PvE to get in the way.

 

SWToR's leveling and story were great (for an MMO) but their shallow endgame is the reason they bled off 1mil+ subs. That needs to be improved before anything else. Some extra space sex isn't going to turn things around.

 

I haven't told anyone how to play the game, and I haven't said "omg never put in SGRs!!!" I am saying there are much more important things the developers should be working on getting live first, however.

 

Have some perspective.

 

I play an MMO because I enjoy interacting with others while playing. Sometimes those interactions suck like when someone decides to go ahead and be a jerk by trying to interfere with your questing or whatever, and sometimes it's good interactions when you get help for a quest from an unlikely source and chat a bit with others.

 

Endgame being shallow will change... when? How much endgame is "enough"? 10 raids? 50? 500? And yes, you're pretty much saying... "Put SGRs in after you've sated all of us with PvE." But... let's say a year from now, there comes an expansion, raising the level cap, then you'd need new endgame content, more raids, etc, etc... so when does the cycle stop? Does it ever? If SGRs are being postponed until "endgame is better", it'll likely end up being implemented when there's no-one left to appreciate it.

 

To recap:

You keep throwing the same argument out over and over and over again while trying to dress it with different words. From what I understood of your post, it comes down to "Raids and WZs important, SGR - not because there's more PvP-ers and PvE-ers than people with different sexuality. Give the majority more content." I'd honestly recommend looking up the meaning of discrimination before posting.

Although it is being written after the rest, don't think of the pending romantic content as just a few on ship scenes and a cutscene. See it for what it is – a part of the entire story for that companion, unlocked bit by bit through play, told over the course of levelling. The romance is one possible outcome but, if that is the direction in which one progresses the story, it is a necessary element of that story.

 

Plenty of people do find the current companion romances enjoyable, and there have been threads on these boards that say so. In which, while plenty of other people would disagree about specific companion stories or particular companions, no one was coming in and saying "how can you enjoy this with everything else that is wrong?"

 

So, whether it is of any concern to you or not (and, if not, why do you keep coming in here to discuss it?) this really is the single most broken part of the game for me right now. It bothers me more than having my 30-yard stuns remade into 10-yard abilities, which is the only game mechanic I can think of lately that I dislike. Overall, the game runs just fine for me, I don't have the objections others seem to have.

 

Now, you will not see me going into their threads and saying "how can you care about this when I don't have what I want." I am not saying those things shouldn't be addressed. And PvP & PvE have been getting developmental priority already. Bugs are already being fixed long before SGRs are being addressed. Things take time, and some people want different things, and time will be spent on those things you don't want, too.

 

I don't know where you grew up, but where I did we learned taking turns and sharing in kindergarten.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Uluain

When do we expect the answers to be? I want to know when I should buy comfort food.

 

Should be Thursday, ish. I just got bothered and checked. Mr/Ms. Sky's Blog (the last Developer Blog) was on the 9th of October (although it reads 10th September ) and the Q&A responses came out on the 16th, seven days later.

 

So... yay. Think I have an Op that day, not sure.

Well, you know they are perfectly well capable of dodging a question they do not want to address, even if it is holding steadily above 25% of those asked. I look forward to Hall's Q&A replies, too. But I don't think we will see anything at all even acknowleging that the status of SGRs is a concern. We'll see.

Well, you know they are perfectly well capable of dodging a question they do not want to address, even if it is holding steadily above 25% of those asked. I look forward to Hall's Q&A replies, too. But I don't think we will see anything at all even acknowleging that the status of SGRs is a concern. We'll see.

 

If they do that, I'll be asking Ms. Berrryman and Mr. Gonzalez why they felt they need to ignore the most asked question in the thread (it's one question that makes up over a quarter of all the questions - the rest are on different subjects). Perhaps I'll even try tweeting Mr. Hood to see if he even got the full list?

 

It's an unfortunate thing that it's likely something that they'd do - they haven't exactly shown much care for the opinions of the community.

Discriminated against? Lets not be sensationalistic here. I'm talking about prioritizing.

 

I'm not against SGRs on principle, I just disagree with the level of their importance to the overall success of the game (which I assume is something we all want). If it comes with the level cap increase and new campaign content, it's all good. An entire patch cycle dedicated to this alone would be a complete waste however.

 

Umm, the devs already do this. End game PvE is an entire tier ahead of PvP at the moment. New PvP content is coming after 1.5, but exactly when is anybody's guess. We still don't have cross server warzones, and we're still in the rated wz pre-season...

 

That said, I would wager the end game PvPers and PvErs make up a much, much larger percentage of the player base than the people specifically clamoring for SGRs.

 

These games aren't dating sims... I really don't know what you guys are expecting here.

 

Well there's one thing we can agree on. BW has made a lot of promises about this game and failed to deliver. But this one doesn't stand out as anything special.

 

Fair enough, but then why play an MMO at all? Bioware's single player games are all about story without any of that icky PvP or PvE to get in the way.

 

SWToR's leveling and story were great (for an MMO) but their shallow endgame is the reason they bled off 1mil+ subs. That needs to be improved before anything else. Some extra space sex isn't going to turn things around.

 

I haven't told anyone how to play the game, and I haven't said "omg never put in SGRs!!!" I am saying there are much more important things the developers should be working on getting live first, however.

 

Have some perspective.

 

If you know about BioWare, which it seems you do, then you know that since Jade Empire, it's been expected of BioWare to put SGRs in their games in one form or another. You seem to be in the "against" category for SGRs, yet you also seem to have bought Dragon Age and Mass Effect in spite of SGRs being in there. Those games included the SGRs from launch. When TOR came out, quite a few people outside the LGBT community were also surprised that SGRs weren't in there yet. I was one of them. I'm just a mildly perverted straight guy that likes watching two ladies kiss each other, but I also support the rights of everyone.

 

You say that you want the developers to work on other stuff first.... like what? Makeb is coming out soon. Other endgame content is already out, with more on the way. All the gamebreaking bugs are fixed. Why not put in SGRs as soon as possible?

If you know about BioWare, which it seems you do, then you know that since Jade Empire, it's been expected of BioWare to put SGRs in their games in one form or another. You seem to be in the "against" category for SGRs...

 

Actually he's stated he's not in the "anti" crowd, but he does seem to be confusing our want for information on this subject and the expectation that Bioware keeps its promises regarding the content being out this year, with wanting to hog all the development resources.

 

I don't know how many times I've said this, but we aren't asking for Bioware to stop producing Warzones, Operations, Flashpoints, Space Missions, Hood Toggles, Chairs, New Speeders, Cash Shop Items or whatever people are pining for currently. We're asking for the content they should have had at launch. We're asking for the same thing as has been given to opposite-sex romances. We're asking for the full companion stories.

 

We're asking for information on the subject - something that has not come for months. PvE and PvP players get updates from the developers on a far more regular schedule and far more often - even the Super Secret Space People have had nods now and then. We ask for confirmation of an "If, not sure, maybe" from the PvP Lead Developer and are demonised for it.

 

This is not about taking anything from anyone - it's about adding. Adding content, adding choice.

 

Same-sex romance is the only subject that I've ever seen people saying that choice is a bad thing, that choice shouldn't be in the game, that our choices should be dictated to us on the basis that someone we've never met thinks it's icky. Or unimportant. Or irrelevant.

 

If these individuals in the "anti" crowd thought that having same-sex romances in game was such a waste of time or was such a horrible and terrible thing, then they'd be beseeching Bioware, not yelling at us.

If they do that, I'll be asking why they felt they need to ignore the most asked question in the thread.

 

Were you here in February and March when we routinely topped 10% of questions asked in the Weekly Q&A? They never answered us then, either, nor did they even acknowlege skipping over the question.

 

While that may well have laid the groundwork to assure Daniel Erickson did address the question at the Guild Summit (although my understanding is that we were also quite prevalent amongst those submitting questions during the livestream of the event as well), we have in fact never received any kind of new information on these forums ever.

 

Nor is Stephen Reid's announcement archived in-context on this site (although the core paragraph of his statement remains company boilerplate for answering all things SGR), nor is video footage or transcript of the Guild Summit developer panel available here. Gabe Amatangelo's interview is on a foreign fansite that is no longer being updated and of course Hall Hood's confirmatory tweet no longer exists even on Twitter.

 

No, they are very good at not batting an eye at ignoring questions they choose not to answer. Some days, they have my sympathy for having to manage what must be a very frustrating job. Other days, not so much. On my bad days, I will go out of my way to be more difficult. I'll apologize for that when they do.

Unfortunately we'll just have to wait and see, like we've always done :/

 

I'll just be biting next time.

If I ever vanish completely from these boards, you may conclude that I bit too hard.

If I ever vanish completely from these boards, you may conclude that I bit too hard.

 

It's only too hard if they bleed >.>

 

I try to be... diplomatically scathing, less likely to be banned for "offensive or aggressive language" then, and it's a fun challenge.

It's only too hard if they bleed >.>

 

I try to be... diplomatically scathing, less likely to be banned for "offensive or aggressive language" then, and it's a fun challenge.

 

Depends on what she's biting... >.>

 

<.<

 

 

Depends on what she's biting... >.>

 

<.<

 

 

 

I'm sure Uluain could give you some pointers on how to bite, if you ask nicely.

I have a very long fuse but no self-restraint at all at the end of it. I recommend not posting at all from a negative place. I am not always able to follow my own advice, though, even though I know it's the wiser course.

 

But we're drifting off topic. I have ressurrected my thread on General pointing out the Meet the Developer Q&A while it is still open. Even without expecting answers, it is still a good idea to express the interest in the information.

Yes, I also posted encouraging the Anti Crowd to ask as well, let's see how that goes.

I had some thoughts on this very sensitive matter, the delays, and my opinions on what it would take to actually implement them, and then they kinda turned into something that has since been termed an 'essay'. I've seen commentary on the subject range from polite requests for information, deep frustration at the delay, to demands and diatribes, and I would like to share my opinions on this topic with the community. I hope it may be of some use to my fellow players.

 

However, due to the fact the resulting piece turned into a 6-page document in Word, I'll spare everyone and simply link the post I made in my own blog.

 

http://druidsfire.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/same-gender-romance-in-tor/

 

Thank you for reading, and I hope you all have a good day.

Druids - I'm part way through, and I though I'd just tell you that LucasArts and George Lucas are pretty LGBT-positive, having donated to marriage-equality movements in the US

 

Thus far it seems to be a call for a moderation on passionate emotions regarding a sensitive subject. Understandable, given the circumstances.