So folks, what do you think? Was the Rebel Alliance really ill-equipped to take on the Empire? Thinking it over hard, looking at the movies closely and at other sources I have come to my own conclusion that they were not. Yes I know they were on the run, but even so I don't think they were such a ragtag force like most people make them out to be. With that I will give some insight on my thoughts, and quotes from the movies so lets start.

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"In the past, we'd secretly enjoyed putting down a local insurrection or two, they kept the troops sharp and the Empire feared; but these Rebels were different. They were organized, they were growing, and they were everywhere."

"Until this battle station is fully operational, we are vulnerable. The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped… They're more dangerous than you realize."- Cassio Tagge

Now these quotes really were the ones that started me thinking about the Rebels, and after looking over everything they are right. A ragtag force does not have an organized structure(at least in terms of how the Rebels have it), nor would they be any threat to a superior force which from Cassio a high general is stating the Rebels are too well equipped and are dangerous.

Now throughout the Rebels have Yavin Base, and Echo base(on Yavin IV and Hoth respectively.) Looking at the layout of both, they are pretty big in size and have a number of resources within(moreso Echo base). On Hoth, the Rebels had a theater shield which protected them from any bombardment and a V-150 orbital ion cannon. Last I checked ragtag forces, would not have access to such things of high quality not to mention they had plenty of defenses and turrets around the base.

Another thing is the Rebel Alliance had its own special forces, or specforce now here is where it really got to me that the Rebels were not ragtag. Somehow they are able to train, Rebel Soldiers into being elite and undertaking operations that cripple the Empire not to mention there were multiple sections of Rebel specforce not just one.

So I don't wanna flood everyone with text, so i'll stop here(should note, I didn't even put half the stuff I wanted to say). So folks what do you think? Were the Rebels really that ill-equipped to take on the Empire?

So folks, what do you think? Was the Rebel Alliance really ill-equipped to take on the Empire? Thinking it over hard, looking at the movies closely and at other sources I have come to my own conclusion that they were not. Yes I know they were on the run, but even so I don't think they were such a ragtag force like most people make them out to be. With that I will give some insight on my thoughts, and quotes from the movies so lets start.

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"In the past, we'd secretly enjoyed putting down a local insurrection or two, they kept the troops sharp and the Empire feared; but these Rebels were different. They were organized, they were growing, and they were everywhere."

 

"Until this battle station is fully operational, we are vulnerable. The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped… They're more dangerous than you realize."- Cassio Tagge

 

Now these quotes really were the ones that started me thinking about the Rebels, and after looking over everything they are right. A ragtag force does not have an organized structure, nor would they be any threat to a superior force which from Cassio a high general is stating the Rebels are too well equipped and are dangerous.

 

Now throughout the Rebels have Yavin Base, and Echo base(on Yavin IV and Hoth respectively.) Looking at the layout of both, they are pretty big in size and have a number of resources within(moreso Echo base). On Hoth, the Rebels had a theater shield which protected them from any bombardment and a V-150 orbital ion cannon. Last I checked ragtag forces, would not have access to such things of high quality not to mention they had plenty of defenses and turrets around the base.

 

Another thing is the Rebel Alliance had its own special forces, or specforce now here is where it really got to me that the Rebels were not ragtag. Somehow they are able to train, Rebel Soldiers into being elite and undertaking operations that cripple the Empire not to mention there were multiple sections of Rebel specforce not just one.

 

So I don't wanna flood everyone with text, so i'll stop here(should note, I didn't even put half the stuff I wanted to say). So folks what do you think? Were the Rebels really that ill-equipped to take on the Empire?

They were 'rag-tag' in that they had no 'formal' base of operations. They were basicaly a gurilla force funded by places like Alderan (in the early years of the rebellion) and senaters on the councle of Curascant. Also the term 'rag-tag' was applied to them possibly due to the fact that anyone could join up. Outside of a possible security check and background check, you didnt have to go threw 3 years of 'formal' military school befor you were tossed into combat, and most Rebel fighters were able to leave at any time if they chose (not durring a mission of course, but afterwards).

As for the equipment they used. Most of it was Imperial stuff they got off the black-market (they basicaly used the imp's own weapons against them, just like modern time rebels/terrorist use Stingers, AK-47's and such they purchase off the black market to fight their own wars/rebellions.) or schematics for weapons they stole from the Empire. The X-wing for an example, it was origionaly designed for the Empire, but the plans were leaked to the Rebels istead (if i remember my lore correctly).

I agree with you. I do not think that the Alliance was poorly equipped. For one thing, think about the starfighters the rebels had access to. The X-Wing and A-Wing seem to be a bit more advanced and sturdy than the TIEs used by the Empire. If I remember correctly, the X-Wing designers defected to the Rebel alliance and gave the X-Wing designs to the rebels.

There actualy was a reason for the design aspects of the Tie's. The no-shields were designed into it to give it added manuverablitly (less kenetic force in manuvers with less weight), + feed the indoctorination of invulnerability of the pilots. The no life-support and no hyperdrive was designed into it to feed the indoctorination of loyalty and relying on your commanders. A pilot who can 'jump' away might leave the moment a fight gets ugly.. someone who MUST protect his mothership in order to get home will have no choice but to fight to the death.

They were 'rag-tag' in that they had no 'formal' base of operations. They were basicaly a gurilla force funded by places like Alderan (in the early years of the rebellion) and senaters on the councle of Curascant. Also the term 'rag-tag' was applied to them possibly due to the fact that anyone could join up. Outside of a possible security check and background check, you didnt have to go threw 3 years of 'formal' military school befor you were tossed into combat, and most Rebel fighters were able to leave at any time if they chose (not durring a mission of course, but afterwards).

 

As for the equipment they used. Most of it was Imperial stuff they got off the black-market (they basicaly used the imp's own weapons against them, just like modern time rebels/terrorist use Stingers, AK-47's and such they purchase off the black market to fight their own wars/rebellions.) or schematics for weapons they stole from the Empire. The X-wing for an example, it was origionaly designed for the Empire, but the plans were leaked to the Rebels istead (if i remember my lore correctly).

I realize that, but they were not ragtag in the sense they couldn't take on the Empire like most people think. Is what my post is really about. They also did have background checks when recruiting for Rebel specforce.

I realize that, but they were not ragtag in the sense they couldn't take on the Empire like most people think. Is what my post is really about. They also did have background checks when recruiting for Rebel specforce.

True, but they also didnt have the numbers of the Empire forces. I think the battle of Endor comprised of nearly 90% of the Rebel space fleet. Were the Empire had only whatever forces were set to defend the DeathStar while the rest of the massive fleet was out doing what it did.

They were still rag-tag, even while decently equiped and trained, As they were still a 'collection' of people rather than a 'standing army'. They were more 'militia' than 'regulars' to use a few Colonial War terms =).

True, but they also didnt have the numbers of the Empire forces. I think the battle of Endor comprised of nearly 90% of the Rebel space fleet. Were the Empire had only whatever forces were set to defend the DeathStar while the rest of the massive fleet was out doing what it did.

 

They were still rag-tag, even while decently equiped and trained, As they were still a 'collection' of people rather than a 'standing army'. They were more 'militia' than 'regulars' to use a few Colonial War terms =).

Last I checked though, ragtag means that they didn't have uniforms and they had to use whatever weapons they could find which they did have uniforms and were supplied with weapons. Looking at the Alliance Military, they seem to be more like the South and North combined during the US civil war then the Continental army during the Revolution.

Don't forget Echo base was formerly some colonist/smuggler facility they happened to come across (Not to mention that it fell in 1 day of fighting), and yavin was pretty much one big make shift hangar placed inside some ruins. Their fleet was constantly on the run, and the majority of their ships could not go head to head with a star destroyer with the exception of the Mon Cal class war ships. They lacked a professional army, and what few they had were well trained was a major loss if they were killed or captured. Quite a few of their officers were former Imperial officers themselves that had defected. Think many of the Imperial military thinkers knew that the Alliance was a problem that needed to be eliminated fast or else it would snowball into something they would not be able to control any more.

The Alliance was under equipped as in, they did not have the numbers or logistics to commit to a all out standing fight like you seen in the clone wars, so they relied heavily on hit and run or sabotage for the most part. Many of the rebels worked out of cells, many of which had little to no contact with the main fleet.

They had some planets supporting them secretly, that in itself is a lot of support and military hardware.

They just didn't have thousands of Star Destroyers.

Ill-equipped to conduct a harassing hit & run campaign against the empire, no.

Ill-equipped to engage the Imperial Army & Navy in conventional warfare, yes.

It's why I feel one of the best thing the EU did was have the empire still hanging on years after the death of the Sidious & the destruction of the death star. With Sidious, Vader, & Grand Moff Tarkin just to name a few all dead by the end of Return of the Jedi, there was no highest echelon of command as it were.

However, you still have massive amounts of military hardware floating around the galaxy. So as stated in some of the earlier EU books you have a bit of an Imperial civil war, while the various warlords, governors, moffs, & admirals try to sort out who is top dog. Meanwhile the New Republic rolls in consolidates, makes treaties, aquires members, etcetera.

Simply put, if Thrawn or cloned Sidious was quicker on the ball of getting people in line after the battle of Endor. The empire could have still taken the alliance in an open military engagement.

Im tired and by no means an expert, but I love topics like this so heres my 2 cents. xD

Dantooine was basicly temporary prefab structures that allowed them to pick up and leave at a moments notice and Yavin 4's base was built in the ancient massassi temples from the time of Exar K'un. Hoth if I remember correctly that had more time to work on with construction and ice melting equipment, but in the end it was mostly add ons to caves and a previous base. The golan turrets (the white turrets at Hoth) were also 20+ year old technology by the battle of Hoth and not prohibitively expensive, and the older models like the ones on Hoth were known to be aquired by pirates and smugglers for their bases of operation as well. The planetary shield, generator and planetary grade ion cannon were expensive, no doubt, but by the time that Hoth rolled around the Rebellions main funding and source of equipment had begun to move away from "Steal it from the Empire".

"In the past, we'd secretly enjoyed putting down a local insurrection or two, they kept the troops sharp and the Empire feared; but these Rebels were different. They were organized, they were growing, and they were everywhere."

This statement would be a rather fair one considering. A local rebellion is not even in the same league as what became the Rebel Alliance. Where the insurrections would be most likely spontaneous in respose to a show of oppression on a planet or two, the Rebel Alliance promoted an ideal, and the ideal is what drew the creatures from the worlds to join them and bolster their ranks. Defectors with intel, technitians with expertise and experience, soldiers and willing volunteers join together and finally the ideas could be connected between different groups of disidents to form a force that could begin being more then a simple uprising; it could be come a movement with a face, normal people standing up to the empire and even better: making gains.

"Until this battle station is fully operational, we are vulnerable. The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped… They're more dangerous than you realize."- Cassio Tagge

That statement made to high command is not really too suprising, considering the sheer scope of the Empire at that time. With the rebels main source of supplies BBY being stolen Imperial technology from random systems and pooled together, Cassio would most likely bringing this to the moffs because their attention would be just be far above it. Just looking at the amount of manpower, resources and credits it would take to build a victory class star destroyer, not even mentioning a super star destroyer and eventually 2 death stars, why would low end parts and outdated ships be worth their notice? (Hell, Tarkin embezzed enough credits from the death star project, the pride of the Empire mind you, to fund the Maw Installation in complete secrecy for God's sake. =P) Be it arrogance or pride, the notion to the higher ups in the Empire that the billions of credits being dumped into Star destroyers, current R and D projects and the most powerful battlestation ever created were being seriously challenged by stolen hand me down and in some cases obsolete equipment would be laughable. It would be like us considering a group of kids in Missouri who stole their fathers old hand me down bb guns and military gear are a legitimate military force and a threat to our national security. (until one of them shot my eye out with a lucky shot. lol)

TL : DR, Yes, they had high technology and good gear by our standards, but even when you just consider each of those star destroyers above Hoth during the battle held maybe 1-3,000 personnell and cost more to build then the entire Hoth base many times over, they were rather ragtag. <_<

Interesting points guys, but by the Battle of Endor would you say the Alliance was still ill-equipped? Mind you before pre-battle of yavin and pre-battle of hoth, they were still a sizable threatening force to the Empire. However by the Battle of Endor, they seem better equipped and have more resources at their disposal then before getting access to Mon Calamari starships, starfighters and others and having more trained pilots and the like.

They were out gunned, but they did manage to out maneuver them. Destroying the death star II was a demoralizing factor, along with the destruction of the Super Star Destroyer the Executor. From what I read apparently the entire chain of command turned upside down with the Executors destruction. So it seems like it was a lot of luck and a lot of well placed attacks that turned the tide dramatically for the Alliance to succeed on Endor.

The Mon-Cal's were their most modern starships they had due to the fact that Mon-Calimary was one of the few planets to openly support them, and had their own shipyards. Even then, they only had a few of those ships. The rest were retrofitted Transports or Freighters.

As for the more experianced pilots. That could be due to the fact that more Rebel pilots 'survived' takeing hits durring combat than Emperial pilots (shields tend to allow for combat experiance heh). The only 'experianced' pilots the Empire had were those that simply never got hit. The Rebel experianced pilots were those that got hit once or twice and learned not to do that again.. then shared that knowledge.

Interesting points guys, but by the Battle of Endor would you say the Alliance was still ill-equipped? Mind you before pre-battle of yavin and pre-battle of hoth, they were still a sizable threatening force to the Empire. However by the Battle of Endor, they seem better equipped and have more resources at their disposal then before getting access to Mon Calamari starships, starfighters and others and having more trained pilots and the like.

Past the battle of Hoth they began getting sufficient support from liberated worlds, most notably (at least movie wise ) from mon calamari. Both the mon cals and quarren were enslaved by the empire for years, ackbar being tarkins slave until his rescue prior to the battle of yavin, so when their world was freed they were more then happy to supply what technology they had and became one of the most open supporters of the Rebel Alliance in the galaxy. That said, for every world that openly declared itself a supporter, there were 10 others funding with intel and credits.

That said, still comparatively they were still vastly under powered, and their entire offensive strategy for the battle of yavin was to attack an undefended, un shielded inoperational battlestation. It was due to the incredible quality of their pilots and sheer luck and sacrifice (ewoks assisting, rogue squadron and wedge being certified ******es in every meaning of the word, and the a-wing pilot who sacrificed his life to kill my favorite movie character T.T sadly I cant remember his name right now, but he did own a SSD <_< ) that they were able to achieve their objective. It was a desperate strike, with their entire efforts on the line, but it payed off in the end. /shrug

/end random tangent xD lol

Past the battle of Hoth they began getting sufficient support from liberated worlds, most notably (at least movie wise ) from mon calamari. Both the mon cals and quarren were enslaved by the empire for years, ackbar being tarkins slave until his rescue prior to the battle of yavin, so when their world was freed they were more then happy to supply what technology they had and became one of the most open supporters of the Rebel Alliance in the galaxy. That said, for every world that openly declared itself a supporter, there were 10 others funding with intel and credits.

 

That said, still comparatively they were still vastly under powered, and their entire offensive strategy for the battle of yavin was to attack an undefended, un shielded inoperational battlestation. It was due to the incredible quality of their pilots and sheer luck and sacrifice (ewoks assisting, rogue squadron and wedge being certified ******es in every meaning of the word, and the a-wing pilot who sacrificed his life to kill my favorite movie character T.T sadly I cant remember his name right now, but he did own a SSD <_< ) that they were able to achieve their objective. It was a desperate strike, with their entire efforts on the line, but it payed off in the end. /shrug

 

/end random tangent xD lol

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Arvel_Crynyd

Poor poor Crynyd. He used to be a pilot until he took a Super Star destroyer to the knee.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Arvel_Crynyd

 

Poor poor Crynyd. He used to be a pilot until he took a Super Star destroyer to the knee.

Lol ok now that was a funny Skyrimish reference right there, and yes..poor Arvel...one of the lesser known rebel pilots that was a hero, he did get a medal named after him though.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Arvel_Crynyd

 

Poor poor Crynyd. He used to be a pilot until he took a Super Star destroyer to the knee.

Hah, thank you . He still goes down in my list as a BAMF for doing that, right next to the nameless guy in the Battle of Hoth who died alerting everyone about Imperials in the base. /candlelightvigil

xD

Hah, thank you . He still goes down in my list as a BAMF for doing that, right next to the nameless guy in the Battle of Hoth who died alerting everyone about Imperials in the base. /candlelightvigil

 

xD

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jobin Now this guy is a true BAMF, he spat at Vader.

Hah, thank you . He still goes down in my list as a BAMF for doing that, right next to the nameless guy in the Battle of Hoth who died alerting everyone about Imperials in the base. /candlelightvigil

 

xD

Lol....I actually remembered that one off the top of my head, the person I think was nameless but part of the Jobin's team, Jobin being Mon Mothma's son who died fighting on Hoth. Gotta find that comic around my house some place.

Edit: wolf beat me to it <_>

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jobin Now this guy is a true BAMF, he spat at Vader.

Oh hellz yes <_< Didn't know his name, but just the act alone was heroic. Spitting on vader, that should of made it into the movies >=P lol (Vader approaches the mellenium falcon, moves to hold the ship with the force, spit slides infront of his sensors, disrupting his veiw, falcon flies away.)

Vader: Damn you Jobin.... *shake fist*