It is absolutely fits the overall concept of the EA/BW management...

Yup, such a game with such a bugs must not be permitted to have other PvP than we have now..

 

Like when one geared Operative can easily outheal 2 people ganking him..

 

Like when i (as full aug WH minmaxed ShadowTank) go for mid in Alderaan with geared healer and we managed to outlive the 5(!) attackers, killing 3 of them and would easily kill all of them by ourselves if some Sentinel wont spoil the «fun», joining the party and killing the rest of them..

 

Like when my fresh 50lvl Gunslinger cant bring down almost any WH geared foe.. To suffer from 5k+ hits having 15K health is another fun story..

 

Yes. This is all about gear.

But the strange thing is a mentality.. While ganking the 20-30lvl people on Tatoine by your 50lvl toon is considered as a bad taste, ganking the Recruits in WZ by your full minmaxed WH toon is ok..

lol..

 

So it is a big problem in 50 lvl PvP.

 

- Being fresh 50lvl you are have absolutely no fun in WZ due to the fact that you are a real burden to your team. You cant do anything usefull and only reason for you to be in WZ is to be cannon fodder (easy target) for opposing team.

 

- Being full geared 50Lvl you are have absolutely no fun in wz due to the fact that you are one-shotting all the Recruits..

 

Without one more bracket for 50lvl, PvP will degrade more and more...

Edited October 8, 2012 by Missandei

Hey if you guys need some alone time, the PM system is great here on the forums. I heard it holds an extra 5gigs of rage storage.

Hey if you guys need some alone time, the PM system is great here on the forums. I heard it holds an extra 5gigs of rage storage.

 

Isn't it how all romances start? And they have in common that they are multilingual .

Mara PTs rage Juggs Sins are all very satisfied with pvp indeed.

Also my rwz groups ops heal tankasin duo has tanked and held off 7 people at grass while our main group travelled from snow, by the time we got there the tankasin has taken out 3 while the 4 others still trying to beat down the healer and fail.

 

you have no idea what we can do. grins

Edited October 8, 2012 by warultima

Hey if you guys need some alone time, the PM system is great here on the forums. I heard it holds an extra 5gigs of rage storage.

niiiiiiice.

 

come at me bros!

 

edit: and while i agree with some of the content and idea behind OPs post, it does come off as passive aggressive whinge.

 

The games got a gear wall issue. we know.

Edited October 8, 2012 by SlimsPicken

Missandei has very valid points and picking on his language skills says a lot about how serious some people on this board are. More and more people are quitting the game and this should be a warning to those who think nothing is wrong. Keep telling people to 'rage, l2p, go away, can i have your stuff etc,' while you notice the population on your servers going down. Ignoring current problems will not bode well for anyone. Having said that, keep insulting people who actually want the game to succeed. Reroll your FOTM and move on while the game dies.

 

 

 

PS: regarding recruit gear, my scoundrel has it. While it is campaign/ bh for months I took it for a spin in pvp yesterday. last time i played with my scoundrel was end of august. It was actually quite fun to gank people do 6k dmg while getting smashed for 7k. No worries, you dust off, respawn and go back with the flechette round . This toon will never have wh gear unless i decide to farm with my shadow.

Hey if you guys need some alone time, the PM system is great here on the forums. I heard it holds an extra 5gigs of rage storage.

 

Pfft 5 gigs isnt big enough for my rage. I play an arsenal merc.

Learn to stun the operative? Interrupt big heals?

It is absolutely fits the overall concept of the EA/BW management...

Yup, such a game with such a bugs must not be permitted to have other PvP than we have now..

 

Like when one geared Operative can easily outheal 2 people ganking him..

 

Well those two people are terrible then

 

Like when i (as full aug WH minmaxed ShadowTank) go for mid in Alderaan with geared healer and we managed to outlive the 5(!) attackers, killing 3 of them and would easily kill all of them by ourselves if some Sentinel wont spoil the «fun», joining the party and killing the rest of them..

 

What? Out strating baddies is op'ed? I guess guard+taunt+self heals+healer that can stay mobile+HOT's+ defensive cd's= op'ed huh? People don't know how to split their dps or just CC the tank down and pull the healer out of guard range is op'ed huh?

 

Like when my fresh 50lvl Gunslinger cant bring down almost any WH geared foe.. To suffer from 5k+ hits having 15K health is another fun story..

 

Oh noes I didn't put as much time in and I want carebear gear gime gimme gimme.

 

Yes. This is all about gear.

But the strange thing is a mentality.. While ganking the 20-30lvl people on Tatoine by your 50lvl toon is considered as a bad taste, ganking the Recruits in WZ by your full minmaxed WH toon is ok..

lol..

 

Oh noes! WWAAHHH

 

So it is a big problem in 50 lvl PvP.

 

It took me a weekend to full war BM gear my assassin... Stop complaining.

 

- Being fresh 50lvl you are have absolutely no fun in WZ due to the fact that you are a real burden to your team. You cant do anything usefull and only reason for you to be in WZ is to be cannon fodder (easy target) for opposing team.

 

- Being full geared 50Lvl you are have absolutely no fun in wz due to the fact that you are one-shotting all the Recruits..

 

Without one more bracket for 50lvl, PvP will degrade more and more...

 

No you degrade more and more!

Learn to stun the operative? Interrupt big heals?

 

Stun OK, interrupt no. Good operatives do not rely on big heals to stay up.

 

Even if you stun the hell outta him, if you do it early he will roflchopper at your face when he gets outa stun with 30% hp and proceed to spam his thing. If you want to keep your stun until he reaches 30%, well good luck taking a good operative to 30% without stunning him. Its a catch-22.

 

PS: Xerain is the most clueless players ive ever saw, and once i got into a WZ with him i loled even more because he cant touch me, imagine a good geared healing OP. Clueless FOTM wannabe PvP hero is clueless.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Laforet

Stun OK, interrupt no. Good operatives do not rely on big heals to stay up.

 

lol, no. Good operatives casts fast heals (kolto infusion) in hopes for them to be interrupted so that we can throw our big heals (kolto injection) uninterrupted.

 

Kolto infusion costs a lot of energy AND Tactical Advantage, and it doesn't heal for that much more than Surgical probe which is instant and only costs TA. Kolto Injection heals for a lot and grants TA.

 

Kolto infusion is really just a kind form of fake casting.

 

On topic;

Adding an extra bracket won't do this game any good. We have our super servers but there are still servers that struggles to get pvp going. Adding RWZs to this game was a mistake. Or, at least adding them in 1.3 was. If they had come with 1.2 like they were scheduled, then maybe they could have worked out. Right now there are servers that cannot play RWZs. My server, The Progenitor, has to organize groups in order to get them going. There's no competition about it, it's simply to gear people up. Because gearing in this game takes f****** ages.

 

What they should have done is to stay true to their word and add them when they have a cross-server function in the game. Now, if you were to check some of my older posts you'd think I'm a hypocrit, since I've opposed cross-server pvp for a very long time. I still do, I firmly believe in what bioware said before the game was launched;

 

We believe that fostering rivalries and memorable encounters with recognizable players are important in building a good PvP community on a server. We suspect cross-server queuing compromises these key tenets.

 

That said, on a lot of servers there aren't enough people to even get RWZs off the ground. The requirements for RWZs are set extremely high as well. Just look at how they implemented this, and how they shot themselves in the foot by doing so;

 

First of all, since there's ranking involved there is a much more serious nature in RWZs compared to normal WZs. People will want to get the highest rating possible in order to flex their e-peen or what have you.

 

In order to do that they'll want the best players they can get. The best players are not running around in recruit or battlemaster gear, they are running around in full War Hero, fully augmented. How do people get full War Hero? The fastest way is, ironically, through rated Warzones. So Bioware encourages undergeared people to go and get pummeled by serious guilds in serious equipment just so that they might stand a better chance at some point in the future.

 

But I don't think that is the reality of things. I think that people gear up in normal Warzones, and that is one very slow and very painful grind that people has to endure.

 

The second thing that comes into play is class composition. A very serious guild will no doubt want people playing the specs that are best for their classes. You're going with 8 and if you want to win you'll have to play it optimally.

 

So, needless to say, getting 8 fully geared people with the right classes is an insane challenge on a lot of servers. And then there isn't even a competition to speak of because there simply isn't any opposition. That's why I believe that for RWZs, cross-servers are a necessity. But I doubt they'll implement cross-server pvp for RWZs only, should they choose to do it. No, I believe they'll do it for normal WZs as well which then ruins the PvP community on the server. Give and take, I suppose. One of the unique things about SWTOR is that there are no cross-server functions at all. I for one love that. I hate what WoW has become and it is mostly due to all the cross-server services.

 

If I were to advice Bioware, I'd advice them to stop trying to copy WoW. They can't make vertical scaling, they've failed at it ever since day 1, and over the time they've only made things much worse. I don't think they have the manpower to pump out enough content to keep this kind of model going. So I would opt for them to remake the entire end game and apply horizontal scaling. Rewards would be mostly cosmetic, I would imagine. But at least there wouldn't be any gear wars bulls*** in our warzones and we could actually have a chance to see some real competitive pvp.

 

I really don't understand the urge to get more stats on ones gear. I mean, think about it for just one second. If the model was working properly, new gear wouldn't change ****. Not if it is maintained balance they were striving for.

 

And if any of you are following Taugrim's blog, then yes, I am aware that I pretty much say what he's saying, because I agree with him.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Majspuffen

 

PS: Xerain is the most clueless players ive ever saw, and once i got into a WZ with him i loled even more because he cant touch me, imagine a good geared healing OP. Clueless FOTM wannabe PvP hero is clueless.

 

Lol I am? Who are you anyways? And ops are hard to take out but you're not untouchable! C'mon now.

It took me a weekend to full war BM gear my assassin... Stop complaining.

 

Awesome!

Full BM gear is cost 12475 commendation.

Average WZ will grant you 85 commendation (50% win-lose ratio)

12475/85 = 147 matches.

one match = ~12min + 2-3 min for Que to pop.. = 15min.

 

4 matches per hour.

Presumably you need sleep for at least 7 hours.

17*4 = 68 matches per day.

136 matches for 2 days without brakes for piss or eat..

 

You are a really devoted player.. lol..

But there is a lot of just normal people playing this game..

Sorc hybrid healer here. It took me about 3-4 days to get full BM. I had maxed out my RWZ and WZ comms pre-50 (something everyone should be doing), so i bought my War Hero implants x2 and War Hero earpiece immediately after hitting 50. Relics I bought/kept at champion level since the difference between champ/BM power relics are negligible. That means I only had to buy bracer, MH, OH, boots, legs, waist, chest, head to get full BM. That's 8 pieces. Augmented everything shortly after, transferred some 61 enhancements from my other toon, and I'm super competitive less than a week after hitting 50 Edited October 9, 2012 by revcrisis

Awesome!

Full BM gear is cost 12475 commendation.

Average WZ will grant you 85 commendation (50% win-lose ratio)

12475/85 = 147 matches.

one match = ~12min + 2-3 min for Que to pop.. = 15min.

 

4 matches per hour.

Presumably you need sleep for at least 7 hours.

17*4 = 68 matches per day.

136 matches for 2 days without brakes for piss or eat..

 

You are a really devoted player.. lol..

But there is a lot of just normal people playing this game..

 

Keep in mind this is the same guy (one your replying to) that calls others "bads" based not on ability but gear score (call it what it is) in a earlier post.

 

Just another WOW player sharing his vast knowledge base!

Sorc hybrid healer here. It took me about 3-4 days to get full BM. I had maxed out my RWZ and WZ comms pre-50 (something everyone should be doing), so i bought my War Hero implants x2 and War Hero earpiece immediately after hitting 50. Relics I bought/kept at champion level since the difference between champ/BM power relics are negligible. That means I only had to buy bracer, MH, OH, boots, legs, waist, chest, head to get full BM. That's 8 pieces. Augmented everything shortly after, transferred some 61 mods from my other toon, and I'm super competitive less than a week after hitting 50

 

Yeah but think about the casual players...

Please tell me, how do you gank in warzones? Sounds awkward to me, it is called WARZONE for a reason.

Yeah... If you have that much of a hard time killing an OP healer you need to L2P.

 

-WH Rage Jugg smashes you for 7200

 

 

This games PVP is all about knowing when to use your abilities. If you don't know when to stun or interrupt you will lose.

 

Play other toons and learn them. Learn the moves (at the least read up on them), know what the cast times are and don't break out of cc until your resolve is full.

 

 

 

 

Why in the world is this so complicated?

Awesome!

Full BM gear is cost 12475 commendation.

Average WZ will grant you 85 commendation (50% win-lose ratio)

12475/85 = 147 matches.

one match = ~12min + 2-3 min for Que to pop.. = 15min.

 

4 matches per hour.

Presumably you need sleep for at least 7 hours.

17*4 = 68 matches per day.

136 matches for 2 days without brakes for piss or eat..

 

You are a really devoted player.. lol..

But there is a lot of just normal people playing this game..

 

Not saying he's right about full BM on a casual weekend but...

 

- Don't forget about the 2000 coms your should have in your bank once you hit 50 unless you don't PVP.

- Bonus coms but dailies + weeklies

- and finally some people might skip BH implants, not everyone tho..

Not saying he's right about full BM on a casual weekend but...

 

- Don't forget about the 2000 coms your should have in your bank once you hit 50 unless you don't PVP.

- Bonus coms but dailies + weeklies

- and finally some people might skip BH implants, not everyone tho..

 

What you say is true.

And yes i can imagine that there is people who play the game for 5-6 hours a day..

But.

The point is that such a «maniacs» are minority. And swtor to be successful have to have a lot of casual players.

The «hardcore maniacs» subscriptions will not cover the expenses to run such a MMO game..

 

And what do we have with current PvP system? That being a usual casual player who can spend on game no more than 4-5 hrs a WEEK you are forced to suffer for over a month of misery as a fresh 50lvl player. So people are leaving this game. Read the statistics:

December, 2011 - 2,2mln subscribers

February, 2012 - 1.9mln

April, 2012 - 1.6mln

June, 2012 - 1.2mln

August, 2012 - 1.0mln

September, 2012 - 0.9mln

October 2012 - 0.64mln

What you say is true.

And yes i can imagine that there is people who play the game for 5-6 hours a day..

But.

The point is that such a «maniacs» are minority. And swtor to be successful have to have a lot of casual players.

The «hardcore maniacs» subscriptions will not cover the expenses to run such a MMO game..

 

And what do we have with current PvP system? That being a usual casual player who can spend on game no more than 4-5 hrs a WEEK you are forced to suffer for over a month of misery as a fresh 50lvl player. So people are leaving this game. Read the statistics:

December, 2011 - 2,2mln subscribers

February, 2012 - 1.9mln

April, 2012 - 1.6mln

June, 2012 - 1.2mln

August, 2012 - 1.0mln

September, 2012 - 0.9mln

October 2012 - 0.64mln

 

How does someone get so confused... if you don't know something you can't just make it up and state it as fact.

 

Serious players are the majority in this game right now. You may not think they are in your mind... and I am not sure what can be done for this. Haven't all subscription mmo's started to shed casual subs at an alarming rate in recent times, so much that the market strategy is shifting to free to play? Ring a bell?

 

Which brings me to my second point. This game is going Free 2 play, where by definition the hardcore maniac players tend to pay for everyone else... and if bioware could get the serious players w/ out the freeloaders in this model, they definitely would..

 

Also i know everyone has stated this a million times in other threads, there is another reason you are getting beat though if you only play once a week. Its skill, this game may not have quite as high a cap as some, it is still substantial though.. Think about games that are completely balanced (no gear) say halo, or a typical fps or fighter, or guild wars, someone who plays daily will absolutely beat someone who plays casually. Am just saying people tend to blame gear in this game for some reason, logically speaking though if they removed geared new players will still get obliterated. I speak from experience here, i play guild wars fair gear pvp casually and regularly get obliterated by serious players.

 

Also look at the bright side, when f2p comes you'll have a second chance to gear up your 50 painlessly.

Also look at the bright side, when f2p comes you'll have a second chance to gear up your 50 painlessly.

 

...that is doubtful because F2p-eers will be allowed to do only one WZ per day..

 

Im not complaining about my experience.

I have full custom minmaxed WH augmented Shadow, Full BM aug maxed Jugg and half BM geared Gunslinger..

(I also have «chapter 3» vanguard, but i dont like the playstyle so he is left in mid 40`s.. )

 

What i say is that i can understand people who are become frustrated in 50lvl PvP...

The simple solution, that dont break any of the mechanics is to make WZ grouping PREFERABLY by Valor level.

So if it is alot of people queuing, make the groups the roughly same Valor tier..

If there is not enough ppl to make High Valor level group, only then groups have to be made as it now..

It is simple..

The Valor tiers should be:

1. 50-60 lvl

2. 60-100lvl.

 

upon reaching 60lvl you definitely will have the enough WZ coms to be full BM geared even if you lose all the matches...

 

Once again - my main argument is: If it is shameful to kill the 20-30lvl people on Tatoine with your 50lvl toon, why is it legit to kill Recruit geared people with your WH augmented one?

Edited October 9, 2012 by Missandei

Once again - my main argument is: If it is shameful to kill the 20-30lvl people on Tatoine with your 50lvl toon, why is it legit to kill Recruit geared people with your WH augmented one?

 

LvL 30s can't even hit a lvl 50 (Miss -- Miss -- Dodge -- Miss)

 

I can still do some good damage with my Gunslinger in Recruit. It is, however, a lot easier to PVP post 49 with a ranged DPS as I'm not in the mix getting focused and destroyed.

Currently the gear gap is not that bad from what I hear. Recruit MK-2 (someone correct me if I am wrong) gives as much hp as a BM set would, if not more, and it also has 1000 expertise. Considering this is free to any fresh 50, the gear gap is quite insignificant. Any less gap, and they may remove gear completely. Notice, the word "remove gear" instead of making it free for everyone.

 

I don't agree gear makes that much of a difference now. It has its effect, but not something to waste anytime worrying about it as far as I am concerned. I like the current system as long as gear is what we are discussing.

Stun OK, interrupt no. Good operatives do not rely on big heals to stay up.

 

Even if you stun the hell outta him, if you do it early he will roflchopper at your face when he gets outa stun with 30% hp and proceed to spam his thing. If you want to keep your stun until he reaches 30%, well good luck taking a good operative to 30% without stunning him. Its a catch-22.

 

PS: Xerain is the most clueless players ive ever saw, and once i got into a WZ with him i loled even more because he cant touch me, imagine a good geared healing OP. Clueless FOTM wannabe PvP hero is clueless.

 

Smash places alot of pressure on guard. Root and snare the tank and pull the healer. Sin tanks closing is not as good as leap. Roots and snares and interrupts. Don't fill the resolve. Something helpful.