He should have been honest from the start. Then, I think, maybe people weremore willing in actually helping him. Getting something special for someone's birthday isn't that easy these days.

(Because everyone wants something special these days ...)

Thus the <A special snowflake> legacy title is the most fitting title in this game

Just had a vet BH with a DPS who clicked every single kolto station in the Jos and Valk fight.

Start of the fight, click-click-click-click. All four on cooldown. As soon as they came off cooldown, he was off again; click-click-click-click. Didn't matter if we needed them or not, it seemed they were not allowed to be available. He stopped when we got the four beasts, but as soon as both Jos and Valk were back down, he was off again - click-click-click-click.

How the hell he never got booted off the edge, I will never know.

Just had a vet BH with a DPS who clicked every single kolto station in the Jos and Valk fight.

 

Start of the fight, click-click-click-click. All four on cooldown. As soon as they came off cooldown, he was off again; click-click-click-click. Didn't matter if we needed them or not, it seemed they were not allowed to be available. He stopped when we got the four beasts, but as soon as both Jos and Valk were back down, he was off again - click-click-click-click.

 

How the hell he never got booted off the edge, I will never know.

Well... guess he was erring on the side of caution, at least? As long as you made it out of the fight with minimum repair bills everything ended well. Knowing how quickly that fight can go sour this sort of weird is just a funny kind of weird. Though lack of lava death makes me incredibly curious - what class were they playing?

Though lack of lava death makes me incredibly curious - what class were they playing?

Marauder.

Just had a vet BH with a DPS who clicked every single kolto station in the Jos and Valk fight.

 

Start of the fight, click-click-click-click. All four on cooldown. As soon as they came off cooldown, he was off again; click-click-click-click. Didn't matter if we needed them or not, it seemed they were not allowed to be available. He stopped when we got the four beasts, but as soon as both Jos and Valk were back down, he was off again - click-click-click-click.

 

How the hell he never got booted off the edge, I will never know.

I saw someone with this "strategy" in the Legacy of Rakata. They were a melee class that just ran to the koltos back and forth on cooldown, never engaging, and clicking it the moment the fight engaged. They said this was the correct strategy. They would not be moved to do anything else even after a couple wipes (turns out wasting the stations in the beginning of the fight is pretty ******* stupid when no one has taken damage yet, but did he notice or care? No). I did not stick around after the second wipe.

I saw someone with this "strategy" in the Legacy of Rakata. They were a melee class that just ran to the koltos back and forth on cooldown, never engaging, and clicking it the moment the fight engaged. They said this was the correct strategy. They would not be moved to do anything else even after a couple wipes (turns out wasting the stations in the beginning of the fight is pretty ******* stupid when no one has taken damage yet, but did he notice or care? No). I did not stick around after the second wipe.

I would have vote kicked him after the first wipe when he claimed that was the correct strategy.

I'm starting to notice a trend with concealment ops. Over the last 2 weeks, I've been in a few VET GF's that have had concealment ops in them. They don't stealth and they stay ranged and just default "pew pew pew." Then wonder why they're being kicked from the group.

Even had a op healer (queued as dps) in a FP the other day that did very, very little in the way of healing. All they did was spam their default "pew pew pew", grenade, and their poison cloud - all from 20m+. I guess they were keeping their probes on themselves for the tactical advantage.

I'm starting to notice a trend of bad players who brag about their nim clears in gf/hm ops

It's getting really cringe and I'm starting to suspect a bunch of account selling/buyer going on or something

Met a healer who insisted we use starparse for a HM ops, then couldn't even get over 5k heals on any pull. Then gets into an argument and instantly starts whipping out the NIM achievements. Like how relevant does a human being think they need to be until they realise it never mattered.

The worse part is they linked DF Nim clears during a TFB run, relevant much?

I've been seeing this WAY too much recently, and I wonder if they're all the same player/attitude or if somebody just bought their account and they're trying to make a point to win an argument

Battle of Illum Veteran yesterday. Totally random group, one just run ahead, avoiding as much as possible and waits at the Rakata and Khaleesh boss. We kill them, then run. Same person just avoids the 2 robots, 1 follows, me pulling, the one who followed turns back and we kill them. Run towards, avoiding everything, some accidental pulls from the 4th person, no biggie, I help out as well as the other person. We catch up the runner at the tunnels before the bonus boss. Gamorrean boss I think, the really annoying one. Runner types in chat: just run. Triggers me, hell no I write back, that I wan't to play not run and pull, runner runs, 3 of us kills the boss, catch up with runner at the boss where we all need to click and proceed towards final boss.

Sorry, but I'm playing to have fun, not for running in an insta to have an effective cxp/hour ratio.

Battle of Illum Veteran yesterday. Totally random group, one just run ahead, avoiding as much as possible and waits at the Rakata and Khaleesh boss. We kill them, then run. Same person just avoids the 2 robots, 1 follows, me pulling, the one who followed turns back and we kill them. Run towards, avoiding everything, some accidental pulls from the 4th person, no biggie, I help out as well as the other person. We catch up the runner at the tunnels before the bonus boss. Gamorrean boss I think, the really annoying one. Runner types in chat: just run. Triggers me, hell no I write back, that I wan't to play not run and pull, runner runs, 3 of us kills the boss, catch up with runner at the boss where we all need to click and proceed towards final boss.

 

Sorry, but I'm playing to have fun, not for running in an insta to have an effective cxp/hour ratio.

Not to seem too nit-picky, but if you're going to tell a story, have the facts right.

First boss fight: Gark the Indomitable - Gammorean.

Second boss fight: Velasu Graege - Khaleesh & Drinda-Zel - Ongree.

Third boss fight: Krel Thak - Weequay.

Fourth boss fight: Commander Folek - Chiss I believe.

Final boss fight - Darth Serevan - Sith Pureblood & Talsa-ko - Voss.

Bonus boss: Guid Patriarch.

I can totally understand people wanting to speed run flashpoints for CXP, or whatever other reasons. A lot are long and tedious. And a lot of people have already done them many, many, many times. Weak mobs only give like 7 cxp, elites 20ish cxp, some bosses only give 150ish cxp as well.

Skipping trash fights is fine in my book. Even skipping Gark - he has no loot worth mentioning. Also the 2 droids at the end of the caverns. Neither of these encounters require stealth to get past.

I'm starting to notice a trend of bad players who brag about their nim clears in gf/hm ops

It's getting really cringe and I'm starting to suspect a bunch of account selling/buyer going on or something

 

Met a healer who insisted we use starparse for a HM ops, then couldn't even get over 5k heals on any pull. Then gets into an argument and instantly starts whipping out the NIM achievements. Like how relevant does a human being think they need to be until they realise it never mattered.

The worse part is they linked DF Nim clears during a TFB run, relevant much?

I've been seeing this WAY too much recently, and I wonder if they're all the same player/attitude or if somebody just bought their account and they're trying to make a point to win an argument

Eh, I'll never insist on starparse for a HM run, but if we wipe, or take 6 minutes to kill Nefra, and there isn't one, then "my guild needs me, g2g". If there is one, and it's a group that is progressing or w/e, I'm happy to stick around and help out.

It is probably not account selling per se, it is probably people buying DF NiM runs (it's the most popular since the Wings are an awesome mount). So they may have been dead the whole time during that run.

Or, they did it back when everyone was 5 levels over in 3.0. I know some folks who did it then too.

Or they have a legitimate gripe (I doubt it, most NiM raiders I know don't feel the need to pull out achievements unless someone is trash talking them), but what was the problem? Were folks dying due to lack of heals, and he still yelled, or did the group hit enrage, and the healer do 5k heals and 2k dps. I'd get the frustration in that case. Not necessarily how it was handled, but I'd get the frustration.

Battle of Illum Veteran yesterday. Totally random group, one just run ahead, avoiding as much as possible and waits at the Rakata and Khaleesh boss. We kill them, then run. Same person just avoids the 2 robots, 1 follows, me pulling, the one who followed turns back and we kill them. Run towards, avoiding everything, some accidental pulls from the 4th person, no biggie, I help out as well as the other person. We catch up the runner at the tunnels before the bonus boss. Gamorrean boss I think, the really annoying one. Runner types in chat: just run. Triggers me, hell no I write back, that I wan't to play not run and pull, runner runs, 3 of us kills the boss, catch up with runner at the boss where we all need to click and proceed towards final boss.

 

Sorry, but I'm playing to have fun, not for running in an insta to have an effective cxp/hour ratio.

Yeah, that's fair. They, however, are also playing for fun, and grinding individual kills for somebody else is probably not their definition of fun.

Did you ask at the beginning to clear some of the groups and bosses, to see if it was okay? In general, if you want to try to get people to clear things they don't normally have to clear, it's a good idea to ask them first. You're the one who wants them to do extra stuff they wouldn't normally have to do, so it's incumbent on you to ask.

TBH, I do understand some trash skipping in longer flashpoints like the Foundry or False Emperor, but skipping too much means also skipping CXP and XP for those below level 70. There's also achievements and conquest objectives you'll miss out on.

Too many people treat the game like a job these days. Kinda sad.

TBH, I do understand some trash skipping in longer flashpoints like the Foundry or False Emperor, but skipping too much means also skipping CXP and XP for those below level 70. There's also achievements and conquest objectives you'll miss out on.

 

Too many people treat the game like a job these days. Kinda sad.

XP from kills is almost never worth it compared to being able to finish the FP faster (and thus fit in more FPs), like the first person alluded to with the "effective CXP/hour ratio" comment. Doing the bonus boss mitigates that to some extent, but it's usually more efficient to just clear the FP as quickly as is reasonable.

Battle of Ilum is kind of an odd FP as far as cheevos go; there are cheevos for killing:

Gark (the Gamorrean early on that doesn't drop CXP packs and who almost everyone skips),

Drinda-Zel and Velasu Graege (unskippable afaik),

Krel Thak (the Kaleesh that many people skip and whose cover shield reflect mechanic kills about 40% of all melee that do the fight), and

Darth Serevin (final boss).

There is no cheevo for killing Folex (who also doesn't drop a CXP pack and isn't really much of a boss, but is unskippable) and no cheevo for doing the Guid bonus boss. So going for cheevos alone disincentivizes running the bonus, and going for CXP strongly disincentivizes killing most enemies in the FP (since so many of them are easy to skip; in BI's case, the difference between doing the bonus and not doing it can be as many as twenty minutes, which is effectively a whole other run of the FP). Asking to kill Gark and Krel Thak while skipping most of the enemies in the FP is actually still somewhat CXP-efficient because they're worth more than most enemies, and of course cheevos are cheevos. When I ran BI before I got the x25 cheevos, I generally asked to do those two bosses in addition to skipping basically everything else.

However, there are codex entries for doing the bonus boss and for destroying the requisite number of turrets for the other bonus. Those are worthwhile grabs for completionists (once per character).

Any way you slice it, though, if you're going for cheevos or Codex entries or what have you, I believe the proper etiquette is still to ask.

Not to seem too nit-picky, but if you're going to tell a story, have the facts right.

 

First boss fight: Gark the Indomitable - Gammorean.

Second boss fight: Velasu Graege - Khaleesh & Drinda-Zel - Ongree.

Third boss fight: Krel Thak - Weequay.

Fourth boss fight: Commander Folek - Chiss I believe.

Final boss fight - Darth Serevan - Sith Pureblood & Talsa-ko - Voss.

Bonus boss: Guid Patriarch.

Thanks for straightening up, I've got them mixed.

Skipping trash fights is fine in my book. Even skipping Gark - he has no loot worth mentioning. Also the 2 droids at the end of the caverns. Neither of these encounters require stealth to get past.

I'm fine with skipping, don't get me wrong, but to skipp the whole FP. Hell I even get that some champs don't drp cxp pack, so not worth killing, but still, I wan't to play and by play pushing buttons other then 'W'.

Yeah, that's fair. They, however, are also playing for fun, and grinding individual kills for somebody else is probably not their definition of fun.

 

Did you ask at the beginning to clear some of the groups and bosses, to see if it was okay? In general, if you want to try to get people to clear things they don't normally have to clear, it's a good idea to ask them first. You're the one who wants them to do extra stuff they wouldn't normally have to do, so it's incumbent on you to ask.

Besides 'hello' at the begining there wasn't any discussion. 2 of them seemed OK to me killing some stuff, when I get bored running.

Whatever, for me to put more effort into skipping than to kill some stuff seems odd. Also this cxp grind endlessly.... Can't really wrap my head around it.

Any way you slice it, though, if you're going for cheevos or Codex entries or what have you, I believe the proper etiquette is still to ask.

That goes both ways though. I usually don't mind either way, but people rushing ahead without a word can be annoying, especially if one or two others have trouble catching up. Communication is key, as usual.

Just did veteran boarding party with a level 70 merc healer in min/maxed 228/230 gear. A cakewalk with everyone constantly above 80%. When we got to the bridge, the healer asked about the purpose of the clickable door, and when I told him that it's probably just a prop for the Foundry, he had no idea what I was talking about.

Turns out he just started playing last weekend, and his <400 achievement points confirm this.

So either it was someone trolling on an alt account, or there is still hope that this thread may be obsolete one day.

Just did veteran boarding party with a level 70 merc healer in min/maxed 228/230 gear. A cakewalk with everyone constantly above 80%. When we got to the bridge, the healer asked about the purpose of the clickable door, and when I told him that it's probably just a prop for the Foundry, he had no idea what I was talking about.

 

Turns out he just started playing last weekend, and his <400 achievement points confirm this.

So either it was someone trolling on an alt account, or there is still hope that this thread may be obsolete one day.

How about it may have been a new player that used a Master's Datacron and not necessarily a "troll on an alt account"? I learned a long time ago not to assume that just because someone's level 60+ (or a legendary player) they have half a clue.

How about it may have been a new player that used a Master's Datacron and not necessarily a "troll on an alt account"? I learned a long time ago not to assume that just because someone's level 60+ (or a legendary player) they have half a clue.

Augmented gear with mostly 228 mods and a few 230 pieces isn't what you get from a master's datacron, and usually not something you get within 4 days after starting the game.

If it was trolling it was the funny kind, because it left me scratching my head after a positive gaming experience, and if it was a genuine new player, he's the opposite of the usual candidates for this thread and also "weird" in a way.

The guy was so competent that I didn't even think about checking his gear rating, let alone his achievements, until he told us hat he started playing just 4 days ago. (Yes, it was only veteran, and maybe merc heals ARE op, but still...)

Of course being new to SWTOR doesn't necessarily mean you're new to healing in mmos, but still, I found it weird, in a positive way.

Augmented gear with mostly 228 mods and a few 230 pieces isn't what you get from a master's datacron, and usually not something you get within 4 days after starting the game.

 

If it was trolling it was the funny kind, because it left me scratching my head after a positive gaming experience, and if it was a genuine new player, he's the opposite of the usual candidates for this thread and also "weird" in a way.

The guy was so competent that I didn't even think about checking his gear rating, let alone his achievements, until he told us hat he started playing just 4 days ago. (Yes, it was only veteran, and maybe merc heals ARE op, but still...)

 

Of course being new to SWTOR doesn't necessarily mean you're new to healing in mmos, but still, I found it weird, in a positive way.

Regardless, there's no need to call someone a troll just because they asked a question and didn't get the reference to another flashpoint. And yeah, it could have been a someone playing on a parent's, sibling's or friend's account to try out the game. It also could've been a start at 60 or 65 character (I still have a free start at 65 slot) and that may have been their first flashpoint. Maybe he had a friend that helped him get his character set up. There are any number of explanations.

Regardless, there's no need to call someone a troll just because they asked a question and didn't get the reference to another flashpoint..

This is not what I wrote, this is not what I called him, neither here nor in game. If you need to know, I praised his playing and bid my farewells. I think you should read my posting again and this time look at the context instead of automatically lashing out at the use of the word trolling. There is a difference between trolling and being a troll.

What I wrote is that I just met an amazingly competent newbie playing a healer. So competent in fact (not only in his healing but also keeping up with a team using every opportunity to skip mobs) that I'm not sure if it wasn't a veteran player on an alt account having fun making others think he's a newb.

But this whole discussion you kicked off kinda ruined the keynote of my post: When these days the standard is the legendary player on his melee sorc, the competent newbie is the weird one. But well, what was I thinking, this is the internet, nobody reads beyond catchwords let alone between the lines.

This is not what I wrote, this is not what I called him, neither here nor in game. If you need to know, I praised his playing and bid my farewells. I think you should read my posting again and this time look at the context instead of automatically lashing out at the use of the word trolling. There is a difference between trolling and being a troll.

 

What I wrote is that I just met an amazingly competent newbie playing a healer. So competent in fact (not only in his healing but also keeping up with a team using every opportunity to skip mobs) that I'm not sure if it wasn't a veteran player on an alt account having fun making others think he's a newb.

 

But this whole discussion you kicked off kinda ruined the keynote of my post: When these days the standard is the legendary player on his melee sorc, the competent newbie is the weird one. But well, what was I thinking, this is the internet, nobody reads beyond catchwords let alone between the lines.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that I misunderstood what you meant by "trolling." It could've been phrased a little differently, though.

What I find weird is that you took the time to inspect gear (a simple mouse-over will show you their rating) and achievements. That's almost like putting someone through a shakedown.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that I misunderstood what you meant by "trolling." It could've been phrased a little differently, though.

 

What I find weird is that you took the time to inspect gear (a simple mouse-over will show you their rating) and achievements. That's almost like putting someone through a shakedown.

When someone goes through an entire story praising someone and then says "veteran trolling", it's a pretty safe assumption they mostly meant it as a compliment. Honestly, the word trolling has a bit evolved. If my nightmare group decides to have everyone swap rolls (tanks heal, heals dps, and dps heal) and do a hm we'll refer to it as a trolling sometimes, since we are screwing around and having fun at the expense of the game (obviously the game doesn't have an ego, but we are nonetheless beating "hard" content on characters we dont really know how to play)

Also, I'll be honest, I look at folks gear and achievements all the time. One wipe, one death, and I'm taking a look (remember gear rating is like a month old, so a lot of us don't remember that). Not necessarily to hate on someone, but to figure out the problem. If the tank and other dps have 99% ops achievements, and the healer has 1% overall, I'll do some offheals on my merc.

TBH, I do understand some trash skipping in longer flashpoints like the Foundry or False Emperor, but skipping too much means also skipping CXP and XP for those below level 70. There's also achievements and conquest objectives you'll miss out on.

 

Too many people treat the game like a job these days. Kinda sad.

In the voice of Dr. Frink

"If we clear 12.3 trash mobs, and skip 2 bosses, and one stealther does the clicking while the rest of the group stands around doing nothing, and the second dps uses Saber Ward during the 2nd, 5th, and 11th trash mob, and the first dps jumps onto the CC target prematurely at map coordinates (1824, 957), and every OTHER boss dies in exactly 2.36 minutes, while we all use the Meirm Frog mounts at the SECOND speed rank during the small stretch running to the bonus boss, while spacebarring every cutscene conversation and waiting no longer than 1.12 seconds to choose the conversation choice (MUST be the THIRD piece of the conversation wheel from the top, no matter what), and calculating the time it will take to vote-kick the non-spacebar moron who took 2.36 seconds to choose, we should end up with an adjusted CXP gain of 2,145 (in addition to the possible add-ons from Random Groupfinder mission, Galactic Conflicts mission, and/or the story mission from Ilum), or an adjusted XP gain of 36,728 for those sub-70's we should have kicked to save us an additional 1.82 minutes for flashpoint completion.

I've tabulated this all in my spreadsheet, and...............my fun index has decreased 5.6 megadorks and my win ratio (calculated as the amount of CXP over the fun index) equals 383.0357 hypergeeks."

*With a completely straight face, pushes glasses up on nose bridge, as if to say, "there is no fun if there are no spreadsheets"*

"But Dr. Frink, what about calculations for credit and loot gains?"

*head explodes*

Got into a pug BH MM on pub side as dps. Everybody was 70 and had at least 230s. Got to the first boss.

Tank was fairly weak. His gear wasn't the greatest (way too much defense, weird stat balance) and he didn't have his full set piece bonus, but it was all tank gear and he didn't take preposterous amounts of damage. He did lose aggro a lot (more than just on the boss's automatic aggro drops) to me and was a bit slow to taunt, but nothing too major. There wasn't a point where he just let the boss whale on me forever without ever getting him back. He was fine. I've survived worse tanks on both healer and dps characters.

Healer was worse, though. They didn't use all their GCDs (there were painful gaps where I looked over and the healer was just kinda standing there), stood in the electro nets a few times, and after the tank died they didn't brez at all. We wiped; the other dps left and we got an even better one. Same thing happened on the next pull, except even faster.

I asked "hey, what's up [healer]" (fairly innocuous, I thought) and the healer left after throwing out a boilerplate "always blame the healer". Yeah, okay, whatever, hide behind that. I heal this fight all the time. I know what to expect in it. Tank wanted to try with his level 50 comp. In my experience, comp heals are almost impossible to micromanage on that fight and they frequently don't prioritize well enough to keep everybody alive, but we tried anyway and wiped. That was it for the group.

I don't think pub side queue is necessarily worse than imp side queue; there's still the same mix of completely incompetent people, inexperienced people with a willingness to learn, passable players, and good players. But pub side queue pool is much smaller; if you get a trash can, you're probably stuck with them, whereas if you run into an idiot on imp side you can probably requeue and get a better player before the heat death of the universe.