I just really don't like people who slack off and waste other people's time. I'm not saying that my group should blast through stuff, but I hate people who don't participate in fights (they propably sit on /whisper all the time, looking up stuff on google), I just don't understand people like that. And when you kick them from the group, they get so mad, tell all their friend in the guild and they all proceed to bully the **** out of you lol.

The other ppl I hate are noobs in GSF that just afk to get command points or whatever... and I get even more frustrated when people don't kick them. Or when they purposely fly into asteroids to kill themselves to let the other team win in the deathmatch. I think the kick system needs to be revamped, they afk through the 1/2 of the match, they get the warning they go fly and do 200 damage max, and afk through another half of the match. It's so fkn stupid....

I disagree with your takeaway, though I do agree with part of what you say. I HATE Veteran FPs (or "Tactical" as they used to be called) when it's 4 DPS because people go in stupid and the whole party wipes because there's no tank and no healer just a bunch of DPS thinking they can tank. Bioware didn't change the mechanics of the flashpoints, they just added the healing stations at bosses. That doesn't get rid of the need for a healer to fix stupid.

 

So, a tank and healer is still VERY MUCH NEEDED in Veterans... because 4 dps players, 9/10 times in my experience will be dumb and get themselves killed.

lmao, no need for a meatshield or heals if everything is dead, NEEDED? no, it they happen to pop with both a tank AND healer (very rare in vet FPs as most people run dps to level) cool, but honestly i perfer 4 dps to sub70 tanks or healers in them, cause they dont have all their skills/perks yet and are mostly useless as besides bosses most things die faster than its usefull anyways unless you **** up a pull and grab too many at which point the tank goes down, then the healer and the 2 dps get screwed over and it wastes more time anyways... as i said tho queing as a dps and waiting for a party with a tank and healer in vets is agonizing, as there are farm more dps out there than tanks or healers. now if im queing with my tank, ill usually save myself the headache if i can and bring a healer along so i KNOW ill have a healer and not be slowing the run down or getting matched with ****** dps that cant kill things fast enough and cause me to die.

if 9/10 you get matched with 3 amazingly ****** noobs and die soo much, I would suggest maybe sticking to heroics to level, or roll a tank or healer lol... cause 10/10 when i get 4 DPS, even if they are subpar, we clear the **** with very little death (at least on my end) but maybe thats because im able to self heal and have CC abilities as a Sorc, so very few pulls are actually any harder than heroics or class mission based ones...

was actually in a 4dps vet foundry run the other night where i was basically just carrying the three lowbies thru it, wasnt giving em much time to even really need to be there haha... and when they all wiped on the first boss, i finished it solo from 35% or by just using my shields and the koltos timed right haha was pretty funn

Did a master mode maelstrom prison yesterday.

Me on 70 sent, with another 70 sent, a 68 scounndrel healer and a70 shadow tank.

All went fine till the first boss. We ended up wiping because the other dps accidentally pulled a side group.

(Healer died first, then both dps, tank stealthed out)

Healer retreated, if figured id best stay dead until the healer comes back to revive, less chance of me pilling any skipped trash by mistake (we skipped a lot). Other sent prolly figured the same as he didnt release either.

Now the tank went absolutely MENTAL over this. He started spamming chat with messages as: what you you waiting for?

Press button

Release

Run back

Press

The

F*cking

Button

Etc etc

By now the healer is already halfway back so releasing at this point just wastes everyones time, plus I refuse to be intimidated by a dick player anyway, so Im staying put. The other sent loses his nerve though and does release.

The tank then says: congratulations you are not the one getting kicked.

And indeed he promptly initiates a vote kick on me. Tbh Im not surprised by that, however I am surprised it actually goes through...

I hope the other two that were with me see this, because I want to share this message with them: next time, please dont let yourself be bullied or intimidated into agreeing to kick someone simply because the tank initiated the vote kick!

Having a blue shield behind your name is NOT an excuse to act like a dick! Nor does it make you group overlord. When a tank acts like a dick, kick him and finish the flashpoint with a companion tank - because most MM flashpoints can be finished like that anyway.

As long as there are players who reward tanks that act like jerks, we will be queued with tanks that act like jerks. Break that cycle now!!!

They started accusing me of cheating ( ???) because i survived in 208 gear..

Its not about the gear, its about cleanses after boss does beam on whoever he's targetting. Beam leaves debuff that needs to be cleansed. Sins can cleanse it with Force Shroud if specced, juggs not sure, probably can't at all. But you and sorc should have cleansed whoever had it.

Its not about the gear, its about cleanses after boss does beam on whoever he's targetting. Beam leaves debuff that needs to be cleansed. Sins can cleanse it with Force Shroud if specced, juggs not sure, probably can't at all. But you and sorc should have cleansed whoever had it.

Nah, it's about realizing you need to hit a Kolto if the debuff keeps stacking. While I do cleanse if I can not every group will have someone who's capable of doing so. They'd be screwed if that'd be the only way to survive.

Its not about the gear, its about cleanses after boss does beam on whoever he's targetting. Beam leaves debuff that needs to be cleansed. Sins can cleanse it with Force Shroud if specced, juggs not sure, probably can't at all. But you and sorc should have cleansed whoever had it.

Juggs can and should spec into the Consuming Rage utility, which gives Endure Pain a self-cleanse that should be up for every other laser, or thereabouts. When their cleanse is not up, they can burn a reflect on the last five stacks of the debuff to increase damage dealt, which is always rad. Unless you're reflecting, it's still great when group members cleanse that debuff (at five stacks) to keep uptime on the boss high and avoid the "tank" needing to use a kolto station. But, that said...

Nah, it's about realizing you need to hit a Kolto if the debuff keeps stacking. While I do cleanse if I can not every group will have someone who's capable of doing so. They'd be screwed if that'd be the only way to survive.

Yes. There is zero reason to wipe on this fight, even if you are a lowbie, undergeared, and/or do not know your class. Boss damage output is not high unless people are standing in stupid. Save the kolto stations for the mining droid's laser, have the "tank" pop them then, and keep rolling. If somebody dies on this fight in Vet mode, they only have themselves to blame, and it's pathetic to see the kind of blame game described in the original post.

If someone missed it - gunslinger and snipers can clean the beam with their roll ability. They can clean every laser, because the cooldown it's just fine =) And i mean clean, not just the damage resist while rolling.

At least in veteran mode.

Its not about the gear, its about cleanses after boss does beam on whoever he's targetting. Beam leaves debuff that needs to be cleansed. Sins can cleanse it with Force Shroud if specced, juggs not sure, probably can't at all. But you and sorc should have cleansed whoever had it.

I tried helping the jugg, but he died anyway, because he was too busy arguing with the sin instead of fighting. Imagine a dude in 248 full gear DYING at Tunneler.. this reminds me of my guild leader, she is also a 248 full gear jugg and didn't died in master mode Hammer Station.. some can, some cannot? (Sorry i haven't played jugg tank yet)

Had an... unpleasant experience today.

Queued for HFPs with a couple of guildmates (in what I call "sleight of hand mode" where I take something off to bring my average gear rating below 242). I was on my Sage healer, they were both dps (one Sentinel, one Guardian).

We got the pop, and it was HM Red Reaper. Neither of my friends had done it in HM before, I don't think I'd ever healed it in HM before, but we were just glad it wasn't Blood Hunt or Depths of Manaan

So, bit of a slow load for me, and for my Sentinel friend. When I materialised (Sentinel friend still hadn't), the tank had decided to aggro half the room. Couldn't put my missing gear back in because we were in combat, someone (possibly him, but possibly the allied NPCs) broke my CC, and we wiped.

Tank did not take kindly to that, and quit the instant he respawned, blaming me for not healing him when it was his own stupid fault for biting off more than we could chew before the whole team was even inside the instance, let alone actually ready for combat.

Juggs can and should spec into the Consuming Rage utility, which gives Endure Pain a self-cleanse that should be up for every other laser, or thereabouts. When their cleanse is not up, they can burn a reflect on the last five stacks of the debuff to increase damage dealt, which is always rad. Unless you're reflecting, it's still great when group members cleanse that debuff (at five stacks) to keep uptime on the boss high and avoid the "tank" needing to use a kolto station. But, that said...

Speccing into the Consuming Rage utility for this fight is pointless, and a waste of a utility slot imo. Juggs can Saber Reflect it and deal massive damage, with CD allowing for nearly every other beam to be reflected. If you pop this about 3 ticks into the beam cast, then you take negligible damage. Another way to reset stacks and take little damage is to Mad Dash at around 4 or 5 stacks, then hit a kolto station (in Veteran mode) or pop a medpac (in Master mode). Furthermore, any DCDs in the Immortal discipline will make damage taken from the beam relatively negligible as well (in particular Saber Ward). Even in the Master version of this FP, very rarely do I - as a Jugg tank - need heals to cleanse the beam stacks off of me. If DPS is pushing the boss fast, the healer can even join in with the DPS to help kill it faster!

Speccing into the Consuming Rage utility for this fight is pointless, and a waste of a utility slot imo. Juggs can Saber Reflect it and deal massive damage, with CD allowing for nearly every other beam to be reflected. If you pop this about 3 ticks into the beam cast, then you take negligible damage. Another way to reset stacks and take little damage is to Mad Dash at around 4 or 5 stacks, then hit a kolto station (in Veteran mode) or pop a medpac (in Master mode). Furthermore, any DCDs in the Immortal discipline will make damage taken from the beam relatively negligible as well (in particular Saber Ward). Even in the Master version of this FP, very rarely do I - as a Jugg tank - need heals to cleanse the beam stacks off of me. If DPS is pushing the boss fast, the healer can even join in with the DPS to help kill it faster!

I don't play Immortal, so I don't know if that utility slot is at a premium for them or not, but for Vengeance it's often a good idea.

But yes, like I mentioned, there are about a zillion ways to negate that damage. Reflect works. Other DCDs work. Even if one has no idea how to play one's own class, kolto stations work. If a player dies on Vet Tunneler, there's only one person to blame.

I don't play Immortal, so I don't know if that utility slot is at a premium for them or not, but for Vengeance it's often a good idea.

 

But yes, like I mentioned, there are about a zillion ways to negate that damage. Reflect works. Other DCDs work. Even if one has no idea how to play one's own class, kolto stations work. If a player dies on Vet Tunneler, there's only one person to blame.

Either spec I only bother with the self cleanse utility if I expect to need to self cleanse. For tumneler in vet/tactical the kolto/reflect work fine for me whether I'm tank or dps and in MM I expect the healer to know what he's doing and cleanse at some point. Since there are no other cleanses that need to go out, he should be able to handle it here.

This isn't really "weird" so much as "the depressing normal", but I had to laugh at the individual who queued as tank with bad dps gear on, ended up in MM BH, and responded to questions asking if he had tank gear by belligerently informing everybody that they were welcome to spend another forty minutes in queue if they liked.

Y'know, as if wiping a bunch of times on the first boss would be any better.

So he left on his own initiative, we got a guild tank, and cleared it easily.

I once queued with my lowbie tank (something around Level 20-30), but I never got a pop. Nowadays, I wouldn't even dare listing, because ... what if I got Blood Hunt with THAT tank of mine ? Oh, the Horror ...

You simply could tick of the more difficult FPs, if you really want to tank. The daily reward for listing for all of them isn't that great in the end. At least in my opinion as you are buried in XP anyway..

You simply could tick of the more difficult FPs, if you really want to tank. The daily reward for listing for all of them isn't that great in the end. At least in my opinion as you are buried in XP anyway..

Many doing random for conquest points.

There's just been too many people lately on Star Forge who think they can waltz into the daily raid, sign up as a tank and state 'I've never been here before'. Or worse, say nothing. I highly doubt any of them is going to read this but please, if you've never done a specific operation before, the last thing you want to do is tank it.. Just yesterday on Dread Palace I had both tanks having trouble holding aggro on just about everything, cleaving the entire raid on Tyrans, and it didn't help that my co-healer simply stood there for most of the fight, cast about 4 heals and managed to run out of mana in the process.

Don't forget about some specific very egotistical, very vocal healers in particular (so many people going on my ignore list; I think I've been traumatised out of pugs for the next month). There was one who claimed he could heal NiM Nefra with just a mainhand and totally botched it by not cleansing anything. There was another who claimed he could and had solo healed Scyva (no achievement), that he was in HM prog (might have trusted him if he said NiM), easy peasy, also botched it. Met that same healer again in Terror on an alt (should have learned my lesson), combined with one of those first-timer tanks. Said healer took the lead and gave the new tank absolutely minimal information (I mean, informing him we're going to trippy space heaven in phase 2 of the last boss would have been good, ignore all these mechanics, we can heal through it, and insisted that tanks and healers channel on Operator IX. Wipes, wipes and more wipes. There was a distinct lack of healing going on, 'I can't heal when I'm channeling!' was the response, so bloody well let the DPS channel then. Thank goodness I was not 70 and so saved on repairs.

Shoutout to the awesome chap in KP HM who let me have Karagga's pimp hat he won in a roll. I love my new aesthetic.

Not GF but I joined a 16m SM TOS group today.

The group was formed and we went in. All of a sudden, the leader switches loot to master looter so "people don't get 3 of the same item". Fair enough but ML takes a while to dish out and it's just SM so whatever (I was mainly there for the achievements). We finish the first boss and the ML asks who needed the bracers. Instead of rolling, he just gives them out to the first people that said they wanted them. That seemed to irk a couple people but the leader would not take off ML.

We continued on the second boss and wiped. One of the tanks dropped immediately and someone who made a sarcastic comment about ML was then kicked by the leader.

As it turns out, the group leader put it on ML because he wanted the final deco drop because he wanted to give it to a friend for his birthday. At this point the group fell apart.

This group leader put a 16m group together, proceeded to piss most of them off with ML, and then wasted everyone's time all over a deco that was currently selling for 1 million credits on the GTN. If he ran heroics in the time it took to put the group together and the entire time we were in the op he would have been close to 1 million to just buy it for his friend.

What's even worse is that the group leader said he took a break from the game for a while due to the "toxic atmosphere" and then the first thing he does when he gets back is put together a 16m group just to ninja loot a deco.

He should have been honest from the start. Then, I think, maybe people weremore willing in actually helping him. Getting something special for someone's birthday isn't that easy these days.

(Because everyone wants something special these days ...)

As it turns out, the group leader put it on ML because he wanted the final deco drop because he wanted to give it to a friend for his birthday. At this point the group fell apart.

That's a nasty move from his part. did you all quit the group before you got the final deco? That would have been payback

If he had just been honest from the start everybody knew what they got themselves into, and I reckon he'd still be able to assemble a group.