I wouldn't mind a server only LFG tool, but I strongly oppose cross-server grouping. Note that prior to LFG in WoW it had a tool very similar to the SWTOR one. It was never used and people just advertised in the Looking for Group channel or in Trade chat.

I'm a longtime WoW player, and when LFD came out in 3.2 it was great because you'd get instantly grouped with players that had a sense of ethics from server only runs. It seemed like such a great idea. BUT . . . .

Fast forward 2-3 years, and LFG has completely eroded any sense of community ethics and fair play. People ninja stuff constantly just to DE/vendor it from others who actually need the gear, the nerdraging is intolerable, and the server community has suffered as people become viewed as NPCs rather than as actual human beings. People are now walled off into their guilds and it's horrid.

Trust me, you don't want cross-server LFG. It seems like a good idea, but in the end it kills all the fun. It's kinda like crack in that way.

Besides, most people are still barely 20-ish, just hang out until we all get higher level. And level a healer, if you want to get runs quickly.

I have to ask : what rep ?

 

Apparentely there are about 1 million subs at the moment, and about 100 server (simplified). So 10000 player per server. You think you can keep track of who's who in such environment ? Not even counting alt? I am pretty sure I could not.

Trust me, if this stays server only, you'll get a rep. People will recognize you, and you'll get into the habit of having a friends list and organizing runs through them and your guild.

And if you act like a jerk, it will get around. That's how it used to be in WoW before crosserver grouping, even with the large server sizes.

So to all the little nerdraging WoW trolls who crave their protective blanket of anonymity, BEWARE.

I spent more than two hours spamming the Fleet General Channel and whisping various players to find some people to explore the Foundry.

I've been doing this for several days, and there's no way to find anyone anywhere.

It's NOT FUN. Period.

It's not fun not being able to explore a flashpoint, it's not fun being stuck on the Imperial Fleet to find someone to play with.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but even if a LFG tool is not fine by you, it's sometimes necessary to have something to find people to play with.

I spent more than two hours spamming the Fleet General Channel and whisping various players to find some people to explore the Foundry.

I've been doing this for several days, and there's no way to find anyone anywhere.

 

It's NOT FUN. Period.

 

It's not fun not being able to explore a flashpoint, it's not fun being stuck on the Imperial Fleet to find someone to play with.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but even if a LFG tool is not fine by you, it's sometimes necessary to have something to find people to play with.

I'm sorry but you've leveled too fast at launch. It's like getting to the stadium 3 hours before kickoff - it's very empty. But then right before kickoff, there's suddenly 60,000 screaming fans.

Give people some time to catch up, honestly you'll be ok.

I'm sorry but you've leveled too fast at launch. It's like getting to the stadium 3 hours before kickoff - it's very empty. But then right before kickoff, there's suddenly 60,000 screaming fans.

 

Give people some time to catch up, honestly you'll be ok.

To be honest, i believe you're right. But an LFG CHANNEL -and a real one, a real global one- (not tool) would be ideal nonetheless.

To be honest, i believe you're right. But an LFG CHANNEL -and a real one, a real global one- (not tool) would be ideal nonetheless.

maybe your server has a custom lfg-channel, at least that's the way we handled stuff like that in lotro.

ask in the zones where people with the level are questing, most of the time they quest but won't mind a quick instance run.

So I played WOW for several years from the original WOW through cataclysm. I also quit WOW several times because of the Community before they ever had an LFG tool. It definitely wasn't the LFG tool that destroyed the WOW community.

For both my wife and I, the LFG tools openned up a whole lot of content that we never saw or had access to because of the royal pain it was to find groups and then the royal pain it was to travel to that instance - it was a whole day affair.

When WOW implemented the LFG tool I don't remember a whole lot of complaints. Frankly it worked great in WOTLK. Most all the groups I went with were friendly I rarely had problems. And would say I had huge problems with the community and the people on our server before that. All the problems of ninja looting etc. were there without the LFG tool.

With Cataclysm the tool broke - but I don't think it was the tool. There was a big difference with the way people used the tool in WOTLK and Cataclysm. The tool was implemented when most WOTLK content was older and the instances were fast as were the queue time so if you got a bad group - you weren't there long and it was easy to complete an instance even with some poorly geared people. However, they made the instances SOOO Long in Cataclysm and queue times were an hour or more. So when you finally got into an instance many people were not willing to work with people new to the instance etc. You can go over and read the WOW forums. People post about how if you are going to enter an instance, you first had to have studied the videos of how others completed it. Then there were always several people complaining about this person's gearscore or this person not doing enough dps on their damage meter etc.

Frankly gearscore and damage meters did far far more to destroy community than the LFG tool ever did. I pray Bioware does not allow those into the game. I was in so many group where we were knocking off bosses just fine but some jerk had to keep harassing someone about what showed on his DPS meter or they should quit the group because they didn't have a gearscore that he approved of.

The problem with not having an LFG tool is that many people who have a group already never go and help those who don't. And those that have already gone through content won't go back to help others. Even though I played WOW for years I still never was able to go through many of the original instances. I also was never able see many of the instances in their first expansion. However, once they had an LFG tool I was able to play all the WOTLK instance and I was even able to gear up to do several Raids because of that tool.

I can kind of understand not making cross-server or only having it go cross server if there are not enough players on your own server - and even then staying within a server group of 3-4 servers.

It definitely wasn't the LFG tool that destroyed the WOW community.

 

For both my wife and I, the LFG tools openned up a whole lot of content that we never saw or had access to because of the royal pain it was to find groups and then the royal pain it was to travel to that instance - it was a whole day affair.

 

When WOW implemented the LFG tool I don't remember a whole lot of complaints. Frankly it worked great in WOTLK. Most all the groups I went with were friendly I rarely had problems. And would say I had huge problems with the community and the people on our server before that. All the problems of ninja looting etc. were there without the LFG tool.

 

With Cataclysm the tool broke - but I don't think it was the tool. There was a big difference with the way people used the tool in WOTLK and Cataclysm.

 

The problem with not having an LFG tool is that many people who have a group already never go and help those who don't. And those that have already gone through content won't go back to help others. Even though I played WOW for years I still never was able to go through many of the original instances. I also was never able see many of the instances in their first expansion. However, once they had an LFG tool I was able to play all the WOTLK instance and I was even able to gear up to do several Raids because of that tool.

sorry, but you compare apples with oranges. no one said there weren't idiots before the tool. without a tool however, they were kept in line (at least more than with the total anonymity of a x-shard DF). and the effect of a DF is not visible over night. it's not like there's a switch that's turned on and suddenly the community is crap. people WILL act more like jerks because they KNOW they can get away with it. it's human nature.

if anything, it's an argument against DF because of the changes you described.

as for the apples and oranges: the instances in LK were waaaaay easier than everything that came with cata (HOM would be an exception). the whole LK gameplay was an aoe-fest, which did not work in cata - all of a sudden people had to play properly instead of spamming their aoe, mobs had to be CC'd and healers had to relearn the green bar game, and the margin for error was a lot smaller.

which meant there was lot more pressure on the group, and at least in the beginning you couldn't get carried through like it was possible in LK, so people were a lot more cranky (rightfully so). random groups with challenging content simply doesn't work.

regarding queuetimes, I pretty much stopped doing randoms in cata and only went with my guild - as did several others I know, especially tanks. wasn't uncommon for a DD to look in the trade chat (sound familiar?) for a tank/heal you group with to get in the instance faster.

the cata instances would have been fine if the majority of the playerbase had not been trained differently in 2 years LK.

as for the rest, try to find a casual guild or put some likeminded people on your friendslist, and you don't really need a DF. that's how it works in other games as well. a little bit incentive and you'll be doing instances just fine.

i dont want a dungeon finder, it is a lazy tool for lazy people go out there and and find a group, this isnt wow, you want wow then go back, we dont want here ruining our game.

You dont want a dungeon finder dont use it. I dont want not being able to find a group at 3am to ruin my fun.

Of the games I have played the current LFG system we got now in game is like the one Final Fantasy XI had, a flag system with comments with an icon after your name. Back in Everquest, all you had is the flag and have a <LFG> tag in front of your name when you look that person on search.

Prior to the Dungeon Finder WoW also had another tool which was the LFG tool that was before patch 3.3 which introduced the LFD tool which we know now. I guess many people would like the LFG tool wow had before the LFD tool which was not a 100% automated group maker. Looked something like this:

http://www.wowpedia.org/File:Patch_3.1.0_LFG.png?c=1

1. Contains a role check.

2. You can put comments.

3. You can insert what you are looking for with a pull down menu.

4. Obviously it was only for your server.

If I remember correctly you can do a Looking for More option and do a search based on what you are looking for. You still had to travel to the dungeon.

i dont want a dungeon finder, it is a lazy tool for lazy people go out there and and find a group, this isnt wow, you want wow then go back, we dont want here ruining our game.

And us people who don't have all day to play a game? There's nothing worse then logging on in the spare time I have to play and then having to spam general chat with 'LFG ******'. It's just pointless; and I really don't see how this 'builds up the community'. I do agree that it should not be cross server however, as the ninja looting would get out of control.

I see alot of trolling going on in /1 chat so LOL for oldschool method. It may work for the flash points since they are all grouped together somewhat.

In open world for heroic quests its okay but I would like to see a LFG feature.

I actually prefer Aion's way of doing it. It's a message board type thing where you post exactly what you want and you can apply to it, it shows the amount of members and you can put exactly what you're looking for. If anything I'd prefer that but this game tbh doesn't need anything.

The current LFG tool works just fine.

There are a lot of things from wow I dont want(gear score and damage meters). A dungeon finder is one thing i would KILL for at this point. After spending 40 minutes doing nothing except staring at the chat box trying to get into a group for a FP, I really would kill for one. Having to find a group does not, I repeat does not increase socializing. It just increase chat spam.

We dont need a group finder, just a FP group finder. I rarly have problems for heroics. But finding a group for a FP, esp as DPS, is a nightmare. I started as a tank, but my guild doesnt need any more, so i went to DPS. But at this point, I may say screw it and finish leveling as a tank just to make it a little easier. But its always the healer that is hard to find.

At least with a dungeon finder, I could go do some stuff while a group was being formed. Even if we still had to go back to the fleet to start it. No sweat. I could live with that. But I HATE sitting on the fleet.

I joined a guild whos avg level is a bit above me, so until I catch up, I have to pug. So please dont tell me to find a guild.

I am not apposed to a group finder provided it is not cross server, but honestly I have no trouble finding a group. It may be different at level 50 since a majority of the population is still not there yet.

My opposition to a cross sever group finder is that it does hurt the community and removes accountability and responsibility for your actions because chances are you will never see that person again.

Same server group finder however I am all for. It makes things easier sure. I believe they could easily add it. They do have the LFG flagging already and making that server wide rather then zone wide could potentially make things easier.

but, athiss is also a lvl20 instance, so you want people around lvl20 - where are these people? taris. so just type /who, put "taris" in the search terms and voila: you see who's in taris and who's flagged. and even people who are not flagged are probably ok with doing an instance, but don't want to sit around on the fleet. so hop in your space ship, go to taris, ask in chat - if it's not 5 am in the morning you'll probably get enough answers to fill 2 groups. then you take the shuttle back which brings right to the instance and there you go.

 

does it require a bit more incentive to get a group? definitely. but that's a minor issue compared to the advantages (and even that issue can be improved by a more powerful lfg-tool - the way it works in other games).

I've been sitting around doing exactly what you just described, trying to either get some of my remaining Hoth heroic missions done or get a group for Colicoid War Games. There are current 5 people, including me, on Hoth and a whole 3 people on Belsavis. I've whispered them all, spammed my share of General on fleet AND the planets in question, and after two hours I have not progressed one bit.

This is NOT a user-friendly system. In fact, it isn't a system at all. Basically it is just a way to list people in different zones of the game. That's it. The notion that it is fine and dandy to make people keep endless lists of people, make dozens of whispers and waste hours of time to just do one flashpoint is simply beyond me. It is absolutely ridiculous and there is no justification for it.

What is even more ludicrous is that people insist that it "supports and builds the in-game community."

What a load of crap. We had the exact same thing in WoW for years and it didn't build a darn thing. All it did was force people to essentially maintain pages and pages of "friends" that they mostly didn't even know, spam their whispers and run around in cities, inspecting and begging people to go run instances with them. I remember it really well, you honestly couldn't sit still more than 5 minutes without someone whispering and asking you to an instance.

Most people I knew admitted they had no idea who the people on their lists actually were. If they ran a dungeon with someone, they just added them. Other than that, it was simply a cycle of nameless nobodies that they whispered through every time they wanted to run a dungeon or put together a raid, and even with endless people on your lists it could take hours to get a group together. Not to mention the fun when people got bored of waiting and left, or the further fun when people excused themselves during the dungeon itself and you had to go back to the cities to spam some more channels.

It isn't a realistic system and it builds absolutely nothing, other than blood pressure and crankiness.

Not having a dungeon finder system in-game is a mistake; I could understand if the developers wanted the playerbase to explore and find these instances, but the entrances are all (with the exception of the two on Ilum) located in the Fleet.

Spamming general chat is archaic, time consuming, and most of all, not fun. Especially when you try to fill up a group for over 30 minutes.

I've been sitting around doing exactly what you just described, trying to either get some of my remaining Hoth heroic missions done or get a group for Colicoid War Games. There are current 5 people, including me, on Hoth and a whole 3 people on Belsavis. I've whispered them all, spammed my share of General on fleet AND the planets in question, and after two hours I have not progressed one bit.

 

This is NOT a user-friendly system. In fact, it isn't a system at all. Basically it is just a way to list people in different zones of the game. That's it. The notion that it is fine and dandy to make people keep endless lists of people, make dozens of whispers and waste hours of time to just do one flashpoint is simply beyond me. It is absolutely ridiculous and there is no justification for it.

 

What is even more ludicrous is that people insist that it "supports and builds the in-game community."

 

What a load of crap. We had the exact same thing in WoW for years and it didn't build a darn thing. All it did was force people to essentially maintain pages and pages of "friends" that they mostly didn't even know, spam their whispers and run around in cities, inspecting and begging people to go run instances with them. I remember it really well, you honestly couldn't sit still more than 5 minutes without someone whispering and asking you to an instance.

 

Most people I knew admitted they had no idea who the people on their lists actually were. If they ran a dungeon with someone, they just added them. Other than that, it was simply a cycle of nameless nobodies that they whispered through every time they wanted to run a dungeon or put together a raid, and even with endless people on your lists it could take hours to get a group together. Not to mention the fun when people got bored of waiting and left, or the further fun when people excused themselves during the dungeon itself and you had to go back to the cities to spam some more channels.

 

It isn't a realistic system and it builds absolutely nothing, other than blood pressure and crankiness.

Very well said.

Ultimately, the pro-Dungeon Finder group will win on this point, simply because of demographics. Unless Bioware can conjure a steady flow of new subscribers -- or folks rolling multiple alts -- to keep the pyramid-like level distribution of the launch, eventually you're going to have the torrent of warm bodies that allow the current "system" to operate cut off. When finding groups for Esseles/Black Talon, Hammer Station, and Athiss becomes half the chore it is to find them for Maelstrom Prison and Colicoid War Game, tunes will change with amazing speed.

But I can certainly wait until then. Bioware's got a full plate at the moment and, so long as the new subscriber torrent continues, the facade of functionality in the group-finding system can vainly persist. But an automated, cross-server flashpoint grouping system is inevitable, and peace should be made with that fact sooner rather than later.

What is your basis for opposing a group-searching system in SWTOR?

Don't have one. Of course, I'd prefer a chat-based LFG system (like CoX) with some great filters and comments rather than WoW's fairly mindless random matching.

No one ever discusses alternatives to Blizzard Approved though.

I spent more than two hours spamming the Fleet General Channel and whisping various players to find some people to explore the Foundry.

I've been doing this for several days, and there's no way to find anyone anywhere.

 

It's NOT FUN. Period.

 

It's not fun not being able to explore a flashpoint, it's not fun being stuck on the Imperial Fleet to find someone to play with.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but even if a LFG tool is not fine by you, it's sometimes necessary to have something to find people to play with.

Those of us playing on early access servers mostly have no issues finding groups. Just give your launch server time for people to level up. Last night everyone and their mother was forming groups for Boarding Party and Foundry on my server.

Boarding Party is LEGIT fyi. Toughest FP yet!