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Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

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Its still early. Give it time. If they can monetize it, it'll be in there.

 

My opinion of these two companies can't get much lower, I'm turning all bitter and grumpy. :(

 

Well, if you don't care about the community you supposedly support, offending them isn't much of a bother.

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I used to support the community, point people at the Dev Tracker posts which most recently addressed their questions. A lot of information gets shared, but never on this topic. So I am feeling grumpy and unhelpful.

 

Now, if they'd actually talk to us, I have a lot to contribute to the community. But it's all snark and sarcasm, all the time until the Comm Team addresses this.

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I used to support the community, point people at the Dev Tracker posts which most recently addressed their questions. A lot of information gets shared, but never on this topic. So I am feeling grumpy and unhelpful.

 

Now, if they'd actually talk to us, I have a lot to contribute to the community. But it's all snark and sarcasm, all the time until the Comm Team addresses this.

 

I was talking about Bioware supporting the LGBT (and allies) portion of their player base, rather than Baptes being mean to anyone.

 

I agree it's hard to be positive when Bioware can't even demonstrate that they remember that this is an issue. It's like as soon as you mention anything same-sex related they have a massive brain fart and lose thirty minutes of conversation and the entire idea just tumbles out of their collective mind into a giant pile of stuff, and whenever you bring the subject back up, they look at you as if you started speaking backwards in Sanskrit.

 

I... think I need a nap now.

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I used to support the community, point people at the Dev Tracker posts which most recently addressed their questions. A lot of information gets shared, but never on this topic. So I am feeling grumpy and unhelpful.

 

Now, if they'd actually talk to us, I have a lot to contribute to the community. But it's all snark and sarcasm, all the time until the Comm Team addresses this.

 

We'd have to be amongst the community first. Feels a lot more like we're stuck outside the proverbial town limits, looking at the lights from our little collection of ghetto tents.

 

(Thanks to playing DA:O again, got a new Word O' The Day for this: "insouciance" - thanks, Aldous. I looked it up later, like you suggested.)

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We'd have to be amongst the community first. Feels a lot more like we're stuck outside the proverbial town limits, looking at the lights from our little collection of ghetto tents.

 

(Thanks to playing DA:O again, got a new Word O' The Day for this: "insouciance" - thanks, Aldous. I looked it up later, like you suggested.)

Yep welcome to Hooverville. You gonna eat those canned beans? :p

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Hey all!

 

I've been really excited about SGRA's ever since it was first announced and I've been keeping an eye on this thread for months now, but just haven't been able to post since I cancelled my sub in September when I didn't have enough time to play. I kinda promised myself that I wouldn't be coming back to the game until SGRA's are released so just like all of you I'm hoping it will happen sometime soon. :)

 

However, I just wanted to pop in and share this Twitter reply I got from Joveth today after asking about SGRA:

 

Of course I'm disappointed to hear they don't have any news about it but I'm definitely happy that it finally got some sort of an answer, and based on that reply it still seems to be in development and not abandoned like some people had already hinted in this thread.

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Hey all!

 

I've been really excited about SGRA's ever since it was first announced and I've been keeping an eye on this thread for months now, but just haven't been able to post since I cancelled my sub in September when I didn't have enough time to play. I kinda promised myself that I wouldn't be coming back to the game until SGRA's are released so just like all of you I'm hoping it will happen sometime soon. :)

 

However, I just wanted to pop in and share this Twitter reply I got from Joveth today after asking about SGRA:

 

Of course I'm disappointed to hear they don't have any news about it but I'm definitely happy that it finally got some sort of an answer, and based on that reply it still seems to be in development and not abandoned like some people had already hinted in this thread.

 

Thanks for sharing that, but it pretty much repeats what Joveth has already said in this thread.

 

The reason I won't be satisfied with that sort of reply is that we do know the developer team really does have information we have been asking about, in some cases for over a year now, which could be shared. We can infer something is in the way of that, but aren't being told what (and yes, we have asked). We are not even being told whether old information is still current.

 

We have gotten exactly nothing said about this feature on these forums at all, ever. That has to be deliberate, and shame on whoever is responsible. I am sorry that Allison and Joveth are the crap-catchers for this. I can only advise them to "pay it forward" to those responsible and to press for a release of this info.

 

I have remained subscribed pretty much to maximize my cartel coin bonus. I have that now. I'll be deciding on my future with this game based on the attention given to this issue. I don't mean re-subbing but even playing, much less spending one red cent on the cartel shop... or any other BW product, ever.

 

Yes, that is how personal this has become for me. This falls short of even tepid, token inclusiveness by having disparaged the content through inconscionable delay in implementation compared to opposite-gender romantic content, and then refusing to discuss it at all. That's simply inexcusable.

Edited by Uluain
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Thanks for sharing that, but it pretty much repeats what Joveth has already said in this thread.

 

The reason I won't be satisfied with that sort of reply is that we do know the developer team really does have information we have been asking about, in some cases for over a year now, which could be shared. We can infer something is in the way of that, but aren't being told what (and yes, we have asked). We are not even being told whether old information is still current.

 

We have gotten exactly nothing said about this feature on these forums at all, ever. That has to be deliberate, and shame on whoever is responsible. I am sorry that Allison and Joveth are the crap-catchers for this. I can only advise them to "pay it forward" to those responsible and to press for a release of this info.

 

I have remained subscribed pretty much to maximize my cartel coin bonus. I have that now. I'll be deciding on my future with this game based on the attention given to this issue. I don't mean re-subbing but even playing, much less spending one red cent on the cartel shop... or any other BW product, ever.

 

Yes, that is how personal this has become for me. This falls short of even tepid, token inclusiveness by having disparaged the content through inconscionable delay in implementation compared to opposite-gender romantic content, and then refusing to discuss it at all. That's simply inexcusable.

So somewhat related to SGRAs in a "Ok, because of this the silence makes even less sense." kind of way:

 

EA given best workplace title for LGBT employees

 

So they are so inclusive and many thought EA is the big push behind the silence on SGRAs. Or maybe it was just me. It still kind of feels like an EAish bait and switch promise the moon and deliver nada thing.

 

So who exactly is pulling the puppet strings here? Who has the kind of pull to shut down devs talking to us so freaking hard? Marketing? PR? Who? Because at this point, that is the biggest mystery to me. And if/when they ever talk about SGRAs, my first question would be "What or who was keeping you from talking about this to us all along?"

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So somewhat related to SGRAs in a "Ok, because of this the silence makes even less sense." kind of way:

 

EA given best workplace title for LGBT employees

 

So they are so inclusive and many thought EA is the big push behind the silence on SGRAs. Or maybe it was just me. It still kind of feels like an EAish bait and switch promise the moon and deliver nada thing.

 

So who exactly is pulling the puppet strings here? Who has the kind of pull to shut down devs talking to us so freaking hard? Marketing? PR? Who? Because at this point, that is the biggest mystery to me. And if/when they ever talk about SGRAs, my first question would be "What or who was keeping you from talking about this to us all along?"

 

At this point, I'd suggest writing to the author of that article and let them know that, despite that little announcement, they have never come directly onto the thread and told us anything about the content that was actually promised to the LGBT gamers in TOR. That with the year almost over and the next big content patch done/almost done, they still treat us like the cousins in the attic as in the old days.

 

I'm glad they offer a friendly and safe work environment for the LGBT community. I'm truly glad that they do that. Sadly, it doesn't seem to have any bearing with how they are handling this in ToR. If anything, as you pointed out, it makes this more confusing and irritating that they are being so weird about this whole thing. I wonder if any of the LGBT employees there play ToR. I wonder how they would feel if they knew that EA/BW has really done some shady things in the very poor handling of information about the LGBT content promised in game.

 

This has gotten really to stupid levels. Methinks someone should be wearing a Dunce Cap by now. Yes, I'm trying to be a little nice.

 

This content was promised and confirmed (by people they left the company), never ever spoken about on the forums officially (unlike pretty much every other topic in the game) mentioned off hand in an unrelated video, reconfirmed via twitter, Tweet was deleted and they keep telling us they can't tell us anything. Oh and they won't even tell the players directly that those comments and promises for the content still stand.

 

Seriously? This is sloppy sloppy sloppy. Cowardly, a double standard...other not so nice words. :mad::mad:

 

I'd write to massively and such, but my computer has been freezing randomly since yesterday afternoon (complete freeze to the point of needing a hard reset every time) and I'm in a bad mood. I'm just hoping CHKDISC did something to fix it. This probably isn't the best mentality for me to try to write them, but I would encourage others to do the same. Also, anyone know of any good LGBT-friendly gaming blog sites that might care about this double standard?

 

I need to back off before I add even more things here. No need for a ban.

 

<retreats from the forums, glaring at her computer and mumbling something about Office Space and fax machines>

Edited by natashina
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Nice to see that most people here finally have stopped repeating the "it will be in there later" statements. 4 months ago, when I let my subscription expire, I felt pretty much alone with my opinion that something was amiss.

 

At this moment I see two possible reasons for why SGR's have not been included by now, as opposed to what we were told (because lets face it, in that last 1 1/2 months, SGR's aren't going to magically appear in-game.

 

1. The priority for it has been lowered so much, because of all the problems the game suffers (dwindling subscriptions, FTP model etc..) that it simply isn't on the agenda anymore. Normally this would be the likeliest reason, but it doesn't really explain why neither the writers, the community managers or the pr department give out any information regarding SGR's. Is it really logical not to give people the information they want to save face, when it further disgruntles the group of players that supports SGR's?

 

2. It has to do with Lucas Arts/ Disney. Who knows how long ago the people over at George Lucas company have known that something like the deal was coming? Disney is not exactly supportive of SGR's or is it?

Yes, there are 2 examples of homosexuality in all of the Extended Star Wars Universe. And that alone has always made me wonder how canonically SGR's are in Star Wars. Think about it. The Juhani romance and her sexual orientation is mostly hinted at, very little of the actual romance remained in the game. It might very well have been an oversight on the side of Lucas Arts, same for the marriage/ partnership between two male Mandalorians. This story also could simply have been overlooked. Maybe whoever was responsible at Lucas Arts simply never realized that both of them were supposed to be male.

So, we have only two examples for SGR in the whole Star Wars universe, otherwise it is as if homosexuality didn't exist. Believe me, I know that, I read almost all EU books and tons of the Dark Horse comics. Two examples that could have been missed by Lucas Art's watchful eye and later retroactively be accepted into canon, like Lowbacca was accepted as the exception for Wookies not being able to be Jedis, after it had already been decided it wasn't possible for them.

I don't think it necessarily means that George Lucas has anything against SGR's or isn't a supporter of equality. if it really is how I think, then it probably has nothing to do with personal opinion, but more with business decisions.

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From the FAQ:

 

9) Isn't George Lucas opposed to SGR content?

 

First of all, Lucas actively supports full marriage equality for same-sex couples. His position and his personal $50,000 contribution to opposing Prop. 8, the California referendum that took away the right of same-sex couples to marry, is a matter of public record. For reference, Mr. Lucas' contribution is the sixth one from the top. With that, there is no reason to think George Lucas would object to same-gender romance in the Galaxy Far, Far Away.

 

Furthermore, if the original owner of the IP(in this case Lucas) says no to something, it stays that way. A company can not use an IP and say, "Yes, X will be there. No doubt, it's being worked on" if the original owner said it wasn’t going to happen. This simply becomes a bad business move. It's detrimental to lie about something like that. Especially to customers and even more so to investors. Not to mention that would make said company liable for a lawsuit. In short, if Lucas didn't approve, they would have never started talking about SGRs in any of the Star Wars Bioware games the first place. Besides, there is already a precedent for this content in the Star Wars Extended Universe. Which leads me to the next question...

 

 

10) Is SGR even canonically in Star Wars?

 

Yes! There are plenty of examples of SGRs in the Star Wars IP. In the games, it began with original Knights of the Old Republic in 2003, with the companion Juhani, who would only romance female Revans. There was also a same gender romance in the books as well, with Goran Beviin, who's husband was Medrit Vasur. Goran was first featured in the e-book Boba Fett: A Practical Man. The two of them were later fully realized in the book Sacrifice, both of which were by created by author Karen Traviss. They are officially recognized as canon by Lucasarts.

 

It's also been posted in the thread how LGBT positive Disney is, both in their employee benefits & park events. So no, that argument doesn't hold any water really.

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Daniel Erickson, who at the time was Lead Writer for SWTOR, told us last March that SGRs were coming with other new story content this year. We know that new story content is coming with the expansion bringing us the new planet, Makeb. It has been tentatively alleged by Principal Lead PvP Designer Gabe Amatangelo that SGRs will also be rolled out with Makeb, though as a Guy Who Doesn't Really Work On That, he was not certain. Current Lead Writer Hall Hood cryptically linked to that video interview with Gabe and said "Here's the official word, folks" via Twitter, but the post was later pulled without comment. We know there is one more big content patch planned for 2012, because Ancient Hypergates, the new warzone, is slated for inclusion in it. That is almost certainly Makeb.

 

So the issue isn't honestly why the content isn't in, or when it may be coming. That's stuff we are able to infer from what we've been told.

 

The issue is that none of the questions we have asked regarding how SGRs will be implemented have ever been acknowleged much less answered. Okay - maybe one was, when Erickson said they were writing unique stories for same-gender romances with companions, which nixed the "maybe they can just swap pronouns in the existing scripts" discussion that we had off and on in February.

 

But none of this was discussed by BioWare here, on these forums. It never has been, beyond repasting a stale announcement from September, 2011, at the front of this thread when it gets remade. And that statement was initially made on a pre-launch beta forum which is no longer retrievable. Any other quotes, transcripts, links and so on you may see in this thread were collected by us to help clarify where matters stand.

 

Why? Because BioWare won't.

 

And why won't they? We don't know. That's another thing they aren't talking about.

 

That's the problem.

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Back to our oh-so-enthralling game of trying to piece together what is happening with same-gender content by examining what does get said, Dulfy has posted an interview conducted with Lead Designer Damion Schubert, in which the following is said regarding the Makeb content patch, which we infer from other scraps to be our best hope for seeing SGRs delivered this year:

 

The Free to Play option and Cartel Market were built by an entirely different team, in order to ensure the Makeb team remained completely focused on their target date. We definitely have a date in mind, and there should be news about that coming soon!

 

So it looks like the Makeb patch release date is not pushed back because of the delay of a couple weeks implementing 1.5, and that we really ought to still be able to expect SGRs this year. Then again, Luke never did get those units on the south ridge repaired, much less by midday, hell to pay or not. So I am not holding my breath.

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So it looks like the Makeb patch release date is not pushed back because of the delay of a couple weeks implementing 1.5, and that we really ought to still be able to expect SGRs this year. Then again, Luke never did get those units on the south ridge repaired, much less by midday, hell to pay or not. So I am not holding my breath.

 

I love you for that reference.

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So it looks like the Makeb patch release date is not pushed back because of the delay of a couple weeks implementing 1.5, and that we really ought to still be able to expect SGRs this year. Then again, Luke never did get those units on the south ridge repaired, much less by midday, hell to pay or not. So I am not holding my breath.

 

I assumed you were a vampire of some kind, therefore making breathing irrelevant and your impending wrath on this subject just that little bit more terrifying.

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I love you for that reference.

 

Thanks. :)

 

I really am vacillating on this right now. I mean, I am optimistic about SGRs being implemented next month. On the other hand, I am disappointed that nothing could be said to help players who wanted to plan their game-play so as to be ready to enjoy this content when it does make it into game.

 

In that latter respect, however much we were encouraged to continue to raise our concerns here, this thread has been a colossal waste of time. The one point clarified was that whichever companions are involved, same-gender romance is being written as a wholly different conversational tree. Good news, as far as it went. Do we count getting the ballpark release window of "this year" as a point from this thread clarified, or was that more from the Weekly Q&A in February & March?

 

In whatever case, none of that was ever addressed by BioWare on these forums anywhere at all, much less in this thread. So while we were told to continue to discuss this, what good ever came of it?

 

The only use I can now see for this thread, now that we are maybe about a month out from implementation of SGRs, has been to collect what fragmentary information there is in order to bring other community members up to date on what we know has been said about this, and what we can infer. That is, we wound up doing what BioWare wouldn't or couldn't and, yeah, I am kind of bitter about that.

 

My affection for this game has taken a huge blow from how this was handled, and EA Corporate has done a very thorough job of concealing those responsible for the decisions made in this regard from having to hear from the hoi-polloi. I can only hope our disaffection is in fact being conveyed to those responsible, and that they can learn how to better address such issues in the future, if they have one.

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I can only hope our disaffection is in fact being conveyed to those responsible, and that they can learn how to better address such issues in the future, if they have one.

 

That would imply that the Community Team in fact relay information of any kind relating to this topic, back up the chain and into Bioware/EA, which is something I personally highly doubt.

 

I know I should be optimistic and give them the benefit of the doubt, but right now I feel like I'm watching a car sinking in a river and hoping that the water's shallower than it looks.

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With the F2P announcement I decided to check out what the status of this was after being gone for just short of what 8 or 9 months now? And surprise surprise we are exactly where we were when I left. :rolleyes:

 

We still have no idea if or when this content will ever see the light of day. For a game that sold itself as "the" story mmo, going this long without what I would consider to be a large chunk of your baseline class story is pretty shameful. The way they've handled the whole thing and treated the community, wanting to shove the entire issue back in the closet instead of actually acknowledging the gaping hole in the game content, is even worse.

 

They did exceed one of my expectations though. I thought they would make it at least 18 months before they had to go F2P. Guess even I'm off the mark some of the time. ;)

Edited by Nozybidaj
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I'm very very tired, but I did want to say there was one really special thing that's come out of this thread.

 

Some friendships. There have been guilds that have come together through here and formed because of this thread. People changing servers to go play with friends. Email addy's exchanged. It warms this old geek's heart to see. The community that has happened on this thread due to this is one I'm very proud to be apart of. :D

 

 

Now, while this is a lovely side effect, the whole handling of SGRs has seemed filled with double standards and I know I feel like I've been shouting into the wind. I know I'm not the only one who feels like they are getting a sore throat. That's probably why I've seen Jenovan around the forums when I was randomly doing my "surf n lurk" recently, and not on this thread.

 

Eh, it sounds like it's going to happen before the end of the year. Right now too beat to give a crap, so long as it gets in and it's on par with the OGRs in the game.

 

Oh and heya Nozybidaj! Long time no see! I came back in mid September after leaving for the summer. It wasn't so much ToR, or the extremely wretched handling of SGR info by The Power That Be, I was just tired of mmos in general for a bit. Lack of any meaningful information about SGRs didn't help though.

 

With a ton of help from the various posters over the year, I helped organize a FAQ. Check out my signature if you're curious. It really hasn't done us a ton of good (as far as making any muckey-mucks say anything), but a lot of it I plan on keeping once SGRs go in. We'll get a lot of the same questions from both those genuinely politely/excitedly curious and from trolls (whose mothers should have been more liberal with the soap in their mouths.) It might help down the road, with some serious editing.

 

For now I know what classes I'm leveling and I'm taking it one at a time. Got some names locked, but I'm going to continue to save room for a couple of SGR inclined toons.

 

Have had 5 hrs of sleep in 48 hrs. Night night.

Edited by natashina
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I've stopped subbing last night. I've subbed since the game started, waiting patiently for SGRs to be implemented, even though I haven't played in months. I told them I would sub again when they finally come. :cool: Well, this year sounds good but I have a hard time believing anything they put out since the info is just nonconsistent and confusing. Still hoping for the best though...... :rolleyes: Edited by Lent_San
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