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The Operative, Just feels, not right.


TalonVII

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I've been rolling an Operative and don't get me wrong, so far story is awesome, and i like the heals. Where I have a problem is that you are reliant on the blaster rifle equipped to do things like heal. This is slowly ruining the fun with combat with my operative.

 

Honestly I want to feel a tad more like james bond with the operative, able to go hand to hand when i need to, but still able to grab my blaster and fire. Don't get me wrong, i love the shive attacks and the stealth, but once those are gone, you're just like 'well shoot what the hell do i do next?!"

 

I have a few possible ideas to change this to make the Operative feel more fluid and organic.

 

1. When you become an operative, you lose all the take cover skills and instead get un-armed combat, so snipe and the grenade go bye bye. Instead you get a quick spool down [like 2-3 second] lower damage shiv attack, or unarmed attack much like the legacy punching attacks. Except they can be upgraded by levels with appropriate damage. So in this set up, instead of ducking for cover you, put away your rifle and go into hand to hand combat much like bond.

 

2. Allow operatives to have more shiv attacks, or another attack that again does low damage but you can have a spam shiv attack instead of just your rifle one. Just to make it when you are in close combat make it again feel more fluid and organic. I mean lets face it, if you have a shiv[knife] in close combat and a rifle, what the hell are you going to use, the KNIFE!

 

I am sorta out of ideas at this point but again, just something to make the operative feel a bit more like a well trained operative would really fight.

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Not a bad idea at all. Nevertheless, I rolled as a sniper so enjoy your healing abilities if anything!

 

:wea_09:

 

Oh i am. don't get me wrong, kinda nice to back off sometimes heal myself and just sit there letting my companion tank while i keep them alive. Just wish i had some better hand to hand combat stuff instead of just a few awesome shiv attacks then just stuck with a rifle feeling like a quasi trooper.

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I went sniper because tbh i despise operative, Hack op in pvp (easy mode), 100% usless in raids, Too many ppl play them as heals in PvE and ahve no idea how to heal properly therefore ive only seen ONE op healer taht can keep up with a merc and sorc. Sniper ftw in my view. Edited by Kiaxn
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I went sniper because tbh i despise operative, Hack op in pvp (easy mode), 100% usless in raids, Too many ppl play them as heals in PvE and ahve no idea how to heal properly therefore ive only seen ONE op healer taht can keep up with a merc and sorc. Sniper ftw in my view.

 

Wow, I have no idea where you play but this is so opposite of the truth I've experienced, and I have an operative, merc, and sniper. Don't blame people's lack of being able to play their class on the class itself.

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I went sniper because tbh i despise operative, Hack op in pvp (easy mode), 100% usless in raids, Too many ppl play them as heals in PvE and ahve no idea how to heal properly therefore ive only seen ONE op healer taht can keep up with a merc and sorc. Sniper ftw in my view.

 

Only reason i chose an Operative cause i already have a gunslinger, so i went the opposite on the Imperial side.

 

Honestly i see more snipers than i do Operatives on Ebon Hawk server.

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Cover is one of the few mechanics that dps operatives can use to mitigate their extreme disadvantage in huttball since it prevents juggs/marauders from leaping to you.

 

Shiv, backstab, lacerate, debilitate, and sever tendon aren't enough knife attacks for you? Explosive prove, flashbang, corrosive dart are also rather secret-agenty skills imo.

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Cover is one of the few mechanics that dps operatives can use to mitigate their extreme disadvantage in huttball since it prevents juggs/marauders from leaping to you.

 

Shiv, backstab, lacerate, debilitate, and sever tendon aren't enough knife attacks for you? Explosive prove, flashbang, corrosive dart are also rather secret-agenty skills imo.

 

yeah i guess, i just wish they had a quick low damage fast refresh shiv attack instead of i burn through all that and all i got is that rifle...

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Yeah I agree, I have skills at my trainer for sniping and cover that I just never use so havn't upgraded to them. It's like 'oh yeah these sniper skills are usless to you as a concealment operative but it's all we can be bothered to give you, oh and once you go past 34 there's no skills worth upgrading to until you hit 46+ too... sorry"
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I always though operatives were very clunky early on, especially before L20. I'd alway been turned off by this when I tried leveling in beta and earlier on. Now I'm working on passing through the awkward stage.

 

You don't have enough knife attacks to be a real melee character, so you need to alternate blaster & knife attacks. You can even use cover attacks b/c you don't have anything else worth using. It feels weird to mix all these from a thematic standpoint.

 

You also can't generate TA as a healer all that easily, so you have only 2 practical heals.

 

This does seem to change as you level though, with L20 as the point things start to gel.

 

 

Snipers on the other hand are much more coherent in their rotations/theme from the start. You know immediately what the class is all about. It's all ranged attacks from cover with some anti-melee crowd controls.

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I always though operatives were very clunky early on, especially before L20. I'd alway been turned off by this when I tried leveling in beta and earlier on. Now I'm working on passing through the awkward stage.

 

You don't have enough knife attacks to be a real melee character, so you need to alternate blaster & knife attacks. You can even use cover attacks b/c you don't have anything else worth using. It feels weird to mix all these from a thematic standpoint.

 

You also can't generate TA as a healer all that easily, so you have only 2 practical heals.

 

This does seem to change as you level though, with L20 as the point things start to gel.

 

 

Snipers on the other hand are much more coherent in their rotations/theme from the start. You know immediately what the class is all about. It's all ranged attacks from cover with some anti-melee crowd controls.

 

I guess i hadn't gotten far enough, i'm only up to level 24 and ^ this nailed it right on the head. You kinda get stuck with Rush in, hit with 3 knife attacks, then use your 2 heals for a while waiting for your strong knife attacks to cycle through.

 

I guess once you hit higher levels you start getting a good chain going, just once you become an operative, taking cover for me, becomes almost worthless. why i was asking for instead of taking cover, you go into a something of a martial arts stance and you have access to things that replace sticky bomb and snipe, make the operative feel more fluid.

 

I personally think that's what missing for the operative at levels say 10-about 25 or so, that fluid feeling.

 

I mean look at the vanguard and Commando, their skills mesh, as does most other classes, but the smuggler and agent their two classes, only one class benefits from take cover, the scoundrel and agent kinda get left in the breeze.

 

I guess that's why i lean towards if you pick agent or scoundrel, you lose take cover and you get something else that makes up for it. I mean look how agents really attack. Or atleast I do. I go in stealth i hit the defib attack first to stun and go into my knife array of attacks, but once the chain is done...it's like..ok now what?

 

I can drop back and heal, or i can go into my gun attacks i guess but again doesn't seem fluid. If you are already up close and personal with the shiv attacks you don't back off to use your gun, you keep up close and personal and keep attacking, and that is what is missing for the operative.

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I guess the operative just isn't the class for you. No offense, but it happens. Can't expect to love every class.

 

Personally, I love my operative. He's lethality, so I get melee, ranged, and healing. Do NOT remove my snipe. It's my best friend.

 

Of course, if you're looking for pure melee, try knight/warrior?

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I like the Operative, I have played every spec thoroughly, but still, they could do a lot to make the class feel more solid in its role. They're mostly solid as healers, but if you were to put a group together from scratch, I can't think of any reason to be like, "we really need a dps Operative!". I'd probably say the same of a dps Powertech as well, though.
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I guess the operative just isn't the class for you. No offense, but it happens. Can't expect to love every class.

 

Personally, I love my operative. He's lethality, so I get melee, ranged, and healing. Do NOT remove my snipe. It's my best friend.

 

Of course, if you're looking for pure melee, try knight/warrior?

 

naa, what i am more driving at maybe not melee combat, but i don't think IMO that take cover really helps the operative. I mean i guess you can take cover and throw out heals, but i like being mobile in my operative, and i think you just need more skills so the operative can STAY mobile better. Just feels like the operative should always be on the move and snipe and the sticky grenade just feels like it has no use for me as an operative.

 

Who knows maybe the choice of having snipe or have it replaced with something else. Don't get me wrong not hate the operative or don't like playing it, it just feels to me half done, like there could be so much more done with it.

 

I mean the operative could open up open handed martial arts which is one combat style i feel missing out of the SW universe. I mean in KOTOR II the jedi could have equipment to help unarmed damage and his unarmed fighiting damage did go up, but it felt undone.

 

Hell with the operative you could open up a whole chain of attacks that could be done unarmed. Give them echani unarmed fighting style and instead of taking cover, you put your rifle away and you can launch into shiv or unarmed attacks that could put the operative more into it's own.

 

just trying to find more of a niche for it to where you can heal, or be the super secrete agent, hit with a few shiv attacks then launch into a bunch of punches and kicks that could do some real damage. I mean if you look you do get some legacy unarmed attacks, but you can't use 2/3 of your skills when you are unarmed. I just want something a little more like those unarmed attacks but if i choose to i can still use my healing skills and shiv attacks.

 

Just me and my ideas i guess.

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I play a concealment operative and I can tell you right now that it gets way smoother with your knife attacks as you get to higher levels. I remember it being very frustrating at early levels you are right about that. You have to learn to work your tactical advantages to your favor to keep knife attacks rolling in. When you say sticky grenade I assume you're talking about the explosive probe, it does nothing until the next attack hits that target everytime you use a flash bang you should be using that explosive probe, or in pvp when someone is running away I find it handy. As for removing the rifle that can't work without getting some form of gap closer. A no energy 30m ranged attack is the only thing that keeps me in the fight sometimes when people are running away using force jumps and what nots.
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I play a concealment operative and I can tell you right now that it gets way smoother with your knife attacks as you get to higher levels. I remember it being very frustrating at early levels you are right about that. You have to learn to work your tactical advantages to your favor to keep knife attacks rolling in. When you say sticky grenade I assume you're talking about the explosive probe, it does nothing until the next attack hits that target everytime you use a flash bang you should be using that explosive probe, or in pvp when someone is running away I find it handy. As for removing the rifle that can't work without getting some form of gap closer. A no energy 30m ranged attack is the only thing that keeps me in the fight sometimes when people are running away using force jumps and what nots.

 

I guess for pvping what you are saying is true, but what i was talking about is know how you have that different bar when you "Take cover" My idea was to take out take cover for the operative, since for me it kills the mobility of the class anyways, and have it to be a martial arts stance you can turn on and off at will like take cover.

 

That way if you get into an up closer and personal, you have different choices for fighting at range or up close.

I hope that cleared it up some.

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I love my lethality spec op, and calling me useless..?? well if pulling 1400-1500 dps in a boss fight is useless in not even fully augmentet and optimized gear, then fair enough and the ability to quickly use cover and use the explosive probe, then move on is awesome. But then again thats just my opinion
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Personally, I think the Operative should get a pistol as a weapon for blaster attacks. Gives a more Secret Agent-like feeling. I'm a stealth fighter, so why the heck am I lugging around a giant blaster rifle!? :p

 

^THIS. I could never understand that either, especially since the IA uses a blaster pistol exclusively in the cutscenes >.>

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^THIS. I could never understand that either, especially since the IA uses a blaster pistol exclusively in the cutscenes >.>

 

Me as well, never did get why the bounty hunter doesn't have the blaster rifle and the IA has a blaster pistol.

 

then when the bounty hunter goes to merc give them access to blaster pistols so they can duel weild.

 

just my two credits.

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Every class has some idiosyncricies. IA is no different - but I love my Operative. I hit 50, did the PvP grind to War Hero and loved it....very different from my BH and you end up approaching the game completely differently. Sure, it's not perfect, but when well played, the class is fun and incredibly deadly.
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Every class has some idiosyncricies. IA is no different - but I love my Operative. I hit 50, did the PvP grind to War Hero and loved it....very different from my BH and you end up approaching the game completely differently. Sure, it's not perfect, but when well played, the class is fun and incredibly deadly.

 

Oh don't get me wrong! I love my IA Operative, it just doesn't feel quite correct. I mean do you think a secret agent is going to lug a blaster rifle around. I mean now that i've hit around 25, my knife attacks are picking up and in close combat i don't feel like such a waste, but there are just things they could of done to open up different syles of play with the IA.

 

Take my unarmed combat. Most agents whether you believe it or not would be trained in some form of hand to hand combat. Sometimes best way to take down a target depending on if you have time and such is a quick hit to the temple or such.

 

Again, just feels half done. It feels like the IA was geared more to go into the sniper role and the Operative was tossed in as an afterthought. I got the same kind of feeling with the scoundrel. to me take cover is all of worthless and detracts from the class more than helps it, with stealth and such, this class should to me always be on the move and mobile.

 

again the astetic and feel just are off to me. but i still love my operative.

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Oh don't get me wrong! I love my IA Operative, it just doesn't feel quite correct. I mean do you think a secret agent is going to lug a blaster rifle around. I mean now that i've hit around 25, my knife attacks are picking up and in close combat i don't feel like such a waste, but there are just things they could of done to open up different syles of play with the IA.

 

True - the one area where IA seems off is the choice of weapons. The knife makes some sense due to the stealthy nature of the class....but the monster assault blaster we haul around seems...REALLY incongruous. But it's a great class - minor tweaking will keep it near the top of the SW:TOR fun charts.

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A low damage spammable 4m range melee move with same damage as rifle shot (aka our current auto attack), but help us regen energy like diagnostic scan does for medicine).

 

So it makes a lot of sense IMO, we get our melee auto attack same damage as our ranged auto attack, sacrificing the 30m range for a small energy regen. But I doubt anything useful would happen tho. BW is too busy making F2Per limitation and buffing warriors, knights and shadowsins.

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