this afternoon i was tryin alacrity just for test. I don't know if the following parse is due (at x%) to this alacrity but i share this to you. (shame on me 95% crit on blade storm ;p)

parse

stuff

192 (4pc + 2pc 186) + 2aug alacrity/1enhanc alac + 2augsurge

My two cents on Torque, whom I killed last night as the only melee in grp & top dps, with a top spec TK sage on the field as well.

Double fire spawns, but it's on a timer that is easy to tell. I got used to it,avoiding all but a few first ticks.

Shoots Lasers is completely my responsibility, and as it usually spawns near boss, constant stream of DoTs on boss is applied onto it, the turrets nearby ( as tanks prefer one side to avoid the stupid bug with the Fix4U) and Dangerous Fire Devices. Sheer amount of AOE damage aside, the DoT spread of Vİgilant Thrust / Vengeful Slam in that fight is NUMERO UNO. Ours is instant application, no waiting or explosion needed, possibly the BEST and most probably the only choice as a melee dps in that fight.

In instants where I was boxed in by fires and devices, GUardian Leap to healers or our sage worked like a charm.

While killing Shoots Lasers, turrets would lock on and whittle away my HP en masse. Reflect should be KEPT for that instant. It ALSO reflects the Lasers' big laser hit onto itself, effectively killing it most of the time.

Pretty much spam the Challenging call. Damage reduced from that, according to one of my healers, was in the range of 100k total, which allowed them some breathing room as tanks were pummeled by Torque.

Pair up with a TK sage if you can. AOE damage increase applied on an AOE skill ( TK wave) make them superb choices for the fight and they augment your direct AOE as well. Vigilant Thrust is one of the strongest instant AOEs in the game, and it shows.

And learn to dance. I had an epic music track running in the background, coz hell, I danced like Fred Astaire in the goddamn kill run.

My two cents on Torque, whom I killed last night as the only melee in grp & top dps, with a top spec TK sage on the field as well

lol the most unnecessary thing of your entire post. Cool story.

Vesev, I do still owe you a talk ops wise, if you're free today or sometime randomly in the next few days we can have an erp session. your group comp is actually very strong for that fight.

lol the most unnecessary thing of your entire post. Cool story.

 

Vesev, I do still owe you a talk ops wise, if you're free today or sometime randomly in the next few days we can have an erp session. your group comp is actually very strong for that fight.

Why unnecessary? I gotta say, with all the AOEs, some tries he was pulling 5k numbers, he didn't get it on kill, but a TK sage is a fearsome weapon in that fight.

Torque is a hilarious fight on HM if you're the only Jugg/Guardian in the group. Same group comp as I listed earlier (PT tank/Sin tank if I forgot to mention that), here's my log from our kill.

http://torparse.com/view.php?tid=538691d2999c11e4a3ed002590d9d1b8

Highest % of damage: Saber Reflect

Also I can 100% confirm it does reflect the damage from the floor vents (it shows up in the logs as being reflected back towards Torque). I think if you are the only Jugg/Guardian in this fight, its a really nice fight for us, as Saber Reflect has about the same cooldown as the tamper deterrent devices, and a shoots lasers (along with floor vents) also spawns at that time, with proper positioning you can be reflecting all the tamper devices, shoots lasers, and floor vents for 5 seconds. With added melee though, and others that can Saber Reflect, our usefulness on that fight diminishes.

Oh I do want to add, another thought, if you have a tank Jugg that is holding reflect for the tamper devices, you can instead hold yours for floor vents when you get trapped and want to move somewhere (take no damage), or for picking up shoots lasers in between tamper devices and reflecting their damage. So yeah, it would still be a great ability with a Jugg tank in your group, you just wouldn't get to pad your numbers as much.

Torque is a hilarious fight on HM if you're the only Jugg/Guardian in the group. Same group comp as I listed earlier (PT tank/Sin tank if I forgot to mention that), here's my log from our kill.

 

http://torparse.com/view.php?tid=538691d2999c11e4a3ed002590d9d1b8

 

Highest % of damage: Saber Reflect

 

Also I can 100% confirm it does reflect the damage from the floor vents (it shows up in the logs as being reflected back towards Torque). I think if you are the only Jugg/Guardian in this fight, its a really nice fight for us, as Saber Reflect has about the same cooldown as the tamper deterrent devices, and a shoots lasers (along with floor vents) also spawns at that time, with proper positioning you can be reflecting all the tamper devices, shoots lasers, and floor vents for 5 seconds. With added melee though, and others that can Saber Reflect, our usefulness on that fight diminishes.

 

Oh I do want to add, another thought, if you have a tank Jugg that is holding reflect for the tamper devices, you can instead hold yours for floor vents when you get trapped and want to move somewhere (take no damage), or for picking up shoots lasers in between tamper devices and reflecting their damage. So yeah, it would still be a great ability with a Jugg tank in your group, you just wouldn't get to pad your numbers as much.

Yeah, the floor vents seemed to be a bigger issue for the tanks than myself. I only died to it the first pull, but after seeing it double spawn I was fine. So for them to be able to Reflect will make the fight far easier because that is what seemed to be killing us. However, five pulls isnt enough to really say one way or another. I'll be curious to see what the DPS looks like once we kill it. I would imagine 4.5k can be rather consistent if the tanks are positioning the boss well. If not, 4k would still be likely if you retain decent up time on Torque. Either way, nicely done and grats on the kill.

@darth_psychose nice parse man. I think Alacrity, combined with a solid crit rate, could possibly net some of the best parses. However, I dont think Alacrity, from a sustained perspective, can be used to replace main stat or power (which augs you are using). Replacing Surge for Alacrity is still a possibility, but we wont know til we have more free slots for Surge/Alacrity available. I would think that overall you'll see a lower average using Alacrity, but a higher top end. I think I tried alacrity upto the 200-400 range while testing, but found little to no consistency in my numbers which is what I am shooting for in my gear.

@Kal ERP Session? When am I not game lol. But yeah, I am game anytime. I am raiding tonight with my Imp group, so I wont be available til around 8:30 tonight. But whenever your free hit me up and I will make it work.

And learn to dance. I had an epic music track running in the background, coz hell, I danced like Fred Astaire in the gosh darn kill run.

ok patrick swayze

Why unnecessary? I gotta say, with all the AOEs, some tries he was pulling 5k numbers, he didn't get it on kill, but a TK sage is a fearsome weapon in that fight.

Lol. Either you're oblivious or deflecting, either way i enjoy you, make me laugh.

@Ves might have to raid twice tonight so may not get to it but i'll try.

 

Also I can 100% confirm it does reflect the damage from the floor vents (it shows up in the logs as being reflected back towards Torque).

Didnt know it, i used to keep my saber reflet for the shoots lasers actually thx for the tip.

Lol. Either you're oblivious or deflecting, either way i enjoy you, make me laugh.

 

@Ves might have to raid twice tonight so may not get to it but i'll try.

I honestly don't know what you are referring to. Elaborate so we might have an intelligent discussion.

--> I did not expressly know that Reflect worked on vent fire on Torque. I suspected a bit, because a few times it coincided with my reflect usage, I have seen a lot more reflects than there should be. Nice to have a confirmation on the issue.

Now I'M thinking of speccing into longer saber reflect and just stand in fire for 5 seconds each minute.

Now I'M thinking of speccing into longer saber reflect and just stand in fire for 5 seconds each minute.

As a tank I do this all the time. You see your dps go through the roof this way(1,3k dps before fire, ~3,5k after )

Although I'm thinking of using reflect and masstaunt on the turrets in HM?

Although I'm thinking of using reflect and masstaunt on the turrets in HM?

you just have to be the nearest one (~alone) to have the aggro without taunt. But if there is some dps with you have to taunt.

you just have to be the nearest one (~alone) to have the aggro without taunt. But if there is some dps with you have to taunt.

Thanks for the info. BW really hates us melees, don't they?

Thanks for the info. BW really hates us melees, don't they?

While i agree most of the new content is not melee friendly, since i started hm progression for this tier on my jugg i am highest parse 95% of the time. Though i have not seen anything past torque (3.8-4.2) or walkers (~3.8). Even Bulo is a hard fight to keep your numbers up, but the rdps i have in my main group struggle to sustain 3.2 or higher, while i am usually 3.8+. when dummy parsing i am unhappy with my numbers in my current gear, though i know that in a raid situation i will be the highest sustained. my group killed bulo the other night with 3 jugg dps plus 2 jugg tanks with ease, did a few troll pulls on torque with the same group and actually had decent success (65% if you call that decent . it comes down to a comfort factor, id still prefer me behind the wheel of a juggernaut than any other class

EDIT: While alot of the mechanics in these new raids are not melee friendly, with the amazing defensive cd's us juggs have, and the many different utilities we have to our advantage ( endure pain movemenet speed increase, 2 sec longer saber reflect, etc..) i find our surviveability much better compared to pre 3.0

EDIT: While alot of the mechanics in these new raids are not melee friendly, with the amazing defensive cd's us juggs have, and the many different utilities we have to our advantage ( endure pain movemenet speed increase, 2 sec longer saber reflect, etc..) i find our surviveability much better compared to pre 3.0

True that. Also, these utilities and cooldowns also allow us for to do higher DPS in certain instances. I feel more useful than ever before, we were just good offtanks before, now we have more.

Quick question to those who have tried it, did anyone try out a certain skill in Master&BLaster HM to be useful? I've been thinking of reflecting the Ion Cutter of Master, but I didn't get to have a long enough instance to try to see if it worked.

I started to play a Vigilance Guardian with 3.0 and I have to say it is so much fun to play him.

My main is a Sage, who is fun as well and very useful for the current HM content (we are at 4/5 ToS and 3/5 Ravagers).

I'm playing this Sage since the very beginning of SWTOR and now I find myself enjoying the Guardian more than the Sage.

The best thing in comparison is the sustained DPS. As long as you don't screw up your rotation, you can ALWAYS get high and consistent numbers in any fight. While the Sage is very bursty for short periods and has quite a lot of downtimes, I enjoy the consistency of the Guardian, because there are no real downtimes and the class is not as RNG-dependant as the Sage.

I'm really digging into this class and I'm looking forward to play him in 198 gear.

While i agree most of the new content is not melee friendly, since i started hm progression for this tier on my jugg i am highest parse 95% of the time. Though i have not seen anything past torque (3.8-4.2) or walkers (~3.8). Even Bulo is a hard fight to keep your numbers up, but the rdps i have in my main group struggle to sustain 3.2 or higher, while i am usually 3.8+. when dummy parsing i am unhappy with my numbers in my current gear, though i know that in a raid situation i will be the highest sustained. my group killed bulo the other night with 3 jugg dps plus 2 jugg tanks with ease, did a few troll pulls on torque with the same group and actually had decent success (65% if you call that decent . it comes down to a comfort factor, id still prefer me behind the wheel of a juggernaut than any other class

Nice numbers. I've only managed ~3,9k on the 1 mil dummy, but on the other hand, I'm a tank mainly and my dps gear isn't all too great ^^

But this and other guides helped me alot

This is really nothing against you, but your rdps just suck or are way lower geared than you, if they can't sustain more dps than a melee on the most fights, tbh. They need more practice.

Our Mando for example pulls a consistent 4-4.2k dps on the walkers. Of course it depends what you do(if you have to get the bomb for example, your dps will suck )

While i agree most of the new content is not melee friendly, since i started hm progression for this tier on my jugg i am highest parse 95% of the time. Though i have not seen anything past torque (3.8-4.2) or walkers (~3.8). Even Bulo is a hard fight to keep your numbers up, but the rdps i have in my main group struggle to sustain 3.2 or higher, while i am usually 3.8+. when dummy parsing i am unhappy with my numbers in my current gear, though i know that in a raid situation i will be the highest sustained. my group killed bulo the other night with 3 jugg dps plus 2 jugg tanks with ease, did a few troll pulls on torque with the same group and actually had decent success (65% if you call that decent . it comes down to a comfort factor, id still prefer me behind the wheel of a juggernaut than any other class

 

EDIT: While alot of the mechanics in these new raids are not melee friendly, with the amazing defensive cd's us juggs have, and the many different utilities we have to our advantage ( endure pain movemenet speed increase, 2 sec longer saber reflect, etc..) i find our surviveability much better compared to pre 3.0

Yeah, I agree that we are in a far better place. I am to typically top DPS in my group. Now, should the Rdps I run with be keeping up? Absolutely, but I guess as long as they are putting up the numbers to get kills than cannot complain to much. I know on my Sniper, which I play for my Imp group, I can sustain roughly 3.7k+ on the few bosses we've killed on HM (1/5 ToS, 2/5 Rav).

I wouldnt say survivability is that much better in Veng/Vig than pre 3.0, but the few enhancements its seen have made it far better. This on top of our DPS being in a much better place has made us a viable option for raiding, but sadly we are still nothing compared to solid Rdps. I've ran Bulo and had sub 100 DTPS; whereas it's fairly standard to run between 400-500 DTPS on my Guardian. This is of course attributed to how well the tanks position, **** that 120 degree cleave, and if your paying attention to distance from carts.

I started to play a Vigilance Guardian with 3.0 and I have to say it is so much fun to play him.

My main is a Sage, who is fun as well and very useful for the current HM content (we are at 4/5 ToS and 3/5 Ravagers).

I'm playing this Sage since the very beginning of SWTOR and now I find myself enjoying the Guardian more than the Sage.

 

The best thing in comparison is the sustained DPS. As long as you don't screw up your rotation, you can ALWAYS get high and consistent numbers in any fight. While the Sage is very bursty for short periods and has quite a lot of downtimes, I enjoy the consistency of the Guardian, because there are no real downtimes and the class is not as RNG-dependant as the Sage.

 

I'm really digging into this class and I'm looking forward to play him in 198 gear.

Glad to hear we have more Jugg/Guard DPS heading into progression. We are still a small group, but seems more and more are venturing into HM content this tier. Hopefully soon, I will be at the same progression in ToS/Rav and I can actually add a raiding tips section that isnt based more on previous tiers lol.

Yeah, I agree that we are in a far better place. I am to typically top DPS in my group. Now, should the Rdps I run with be keeping up? Absolutely, but I guess as long as they are putting up the numbers to get kills than cannot complain to much. I know on my Sniper, which I play for my Imp group, I can sustain roughly 3.7k+ on the few bosses we've killed on HM (1/5 ToS, 2/5 Rav).

 

I wouldnt say survivability is that much better in Veng/Vig than pre 3.0, but the few enhancements its seen have made it far better. This on top of our DPS being in a much better place has made us a viable option for raiding, but sadly we are still nothing compared to solid Rdps. I've ran Bulo and had sub 100 DTPS; whereas it's fairly standard to run between 400-500 DTPS on my Guardian. This is of course attributed to how well the tanks position, **** that 120 degree cleave, and if your paying attention to distance from carts.

 

 

 

Glad to hear we have more Jugg/Guard DPS heading into progression. We are still a small group, but seems more and more are venturing into HM content this tier. Hopefully soon, I will be at the same progression in ToS/Rav and I can actually add a raiding tips section that isnt based more on previous tiers lol.

Lucky, my absolutely abhorrent schedule makes it hard to do even story modes, fml.

How does a vengeance Jugg do against Master&Blaster HM? Need arguments for my raidleader or I'm stuck with my lame as sniper :/

Someone to take ion cutter from Master. Ability to take damage from intentional grenade blast if needed. Superior positioning advantage if you can grab the spot behind the boss.

Srsly, that fight is a bit grp-oriented to comment on a certain class's use. One thing I noticed, even if you take 4 ranged, 2 of them needs to roleplay a melee at any case because of the repositioning needs. So, why wouldn't you go for a nice vanguard or a guardian who can put out more dps on the move while dancing?

One slinger sniper is good enough, though two of those at the same time is simply unnecessary. If you are that lone sniper in a grp, your only way out is to convince someone else to play ranged and you also would need to prove you can do higher or equal dps in guardian.

See, that's what we mean when we say guardians require a lot of time to foster. Your grp is so alienated to the idea of using it, and you probably never had many chances to show your worth at it. You need to start small and work your way up in a powerful raid grp.

Of course, if your raid grp is an average one, it's easier. You will train like hell, and then you'll crush everyone else at Parsec and then leave a smug silence in the air, so they can feel your contempt wafting off of the teamspeak.

Let's see if they can keep up their grp comp. stacking ways then.

Humiliation is often the best tool in a raider's arsenal, along with preparation and an ability to think ahead in short time frames. ( Chess and fencing helps.)

As for the comment of RDPS must be keeping up, well, most of them should, but no fight in these new instances are a good measure really. Everyone has different roles and little jobs to do, no one has the time to look at parsec and measure their dps.

Well, red kephess ( malaphar? I think) is a bit of a measuring pole, but you can get top spot along with a TK sage there due to the excellent aoe capabilities, even that fight is not a balanced competition.

Glad to hear we have more Jugg/Guard DPS heading into progression. We are still a small group, but seems more and more are venturing into HM content this tier. Hopefully soon, I will be at the same progression in ToS/Rav and I can actually add a raiding tips section that isnt based more on previous tiers lol.

Due to the easy-to-pickup, but very tough to master nature of our adv. class, and also due to the 3 year old stigma associated with the dps numbers on a previously bottom of the barrel class, I suspect we will never be more than a small community. And I kinda prefer it that way. Widely used specs are more susceptible to dangerous nerfs. ( Gunslingers send their love with Flyby. ---- "ooh, 2k, that's a good hit." )

i love it when people still say juggs suck while i'm roaming fleet, :D

I dont think anyone is really saying "jugg/Guard sucks", but rather Mdps sucks in comparison to Rdps. The only reason for this is you have a lot more to pay attention too. And it's not necessarily that mdps suck, well outside of Underlurker, but you have to basically be more competent than the rest of the group.

I know the whole PvP guide is a bit of a WiP but if you guys want some help with rotation/priority for PvP feel free to pop on my stream channel - ZetsumaTM - and I can tell you how I werk it.

Look forward to seeing you around <3