Hi, I am a long time SWTOR player whose main area of interest within the game has been around the eight class stories, as I really enjoy star wars and the lore that came with KOTOR and also what they have now created with SWTOR.

 

Usually when I play I do so solo however this time I have come back predominantly because a friend has got into SWTOR so I am doing an Operative, and he is doing a Sith Assassin. What I have noticed however both from the previous times I’ve been back after the level sync is how easy the game has become.

 

Now I am very much a fan of the streamlined level experience and that characters can progress through a story by just doing the planet story arc and personal story arc, and I also really like the fact that players no matter the level can be rewarded no matter whether they are lvl 70 doing Korriban heroics or even just level 45 starting Nar Shadaa in their story.

 

I think the choice of how to approach the game has been really improved by level sync. One problem however is the game has become so easy it feels like I am playing on god mode and cannot die. As someone who has played more or less from the beginning it still feels strange to me when I solo the Heroics without really breaking a sweat, I remember when I used to have to hang around shouting “LFM 1H 1DPS Heroic 4” so that I could do them.

 

The reason I want to see what others think however and the reason I am concerned that the game has become too easy is because myself and my friend have been doing the flashpoints in their now veteran mode duo with only dying once on the last boss of Hammer Station.

 

I’m fairly certain veteran mode is meant for four players but my friend and myself while following our story have done The Black Talon, Hammer Station and Athiss just the two of us with our companions in heal mode, and I think there must be something wrong with that? I mean to be honest the speed and ease with which we have done the flashpoints together makes them easier than the old Heroic 2’s.

Consider pulling more mobs than you ordinarily would. I used to do one cluster of mobs, move to the next, etc.

Just pull the whole freakin room.

Enjoy.

Dumbed down gameplay has created a dumbed down community of dumbed down players. It's fine if you are playing the solo parts of the game, but when you do anything with a group (get in a queue for anything group finder, PvP, or operations) you notice the devastating effect that making this game too easy has had on the player base.

 

But it's too late to put the cat in the bag now. And it's a crying shame for this game and it's future.

 

That's how I feel about it.

The only time it bothers me is when I'm playing the final fights of the SW/SI Story lines. Otherwise I enjoy the game a lot more now than I did 5yrs ago.

 

Why don't you and ya homie try running with 1 companion on heal instead of both. You might find that challenge you're looking for.

TOR has always been easy. Level sync's done nothing to make things easier, quite the opposite, though it still hasn't made the game hard. Saying that heroics weren't easier when you could outlevel them is odd. They definitely have been made easier regardless, they didn't just simplify the former heroic 4s when they nerfed those, they nerfed all the heroics. Why they're still called Heroics and not just Dailies is curious. Companions have also become a lot stronger ever since they were given an affection cap of 10 billion (or whatever it is) and the couple of thousand Presence you end up with after maxing a couple of characters gives them a huge boost too.

Whenever gamers say "dumbed down" my mind automatically translates their statement to "streamlined." I will always prefer streamlined gameplay. This game was never super challenging, but it sure could be tedious. The old major boss battles were pretty sweet, but still not very hard.

 

Personally, I only ever find pvp to be the real challenge in mmo's. Nothing else has the right spice so I very much prefer the QoL changes and making heroics more accessible.

Honestly... I'm fine with it.

 

Why?

 

Because it makes for a faster and simpler onramp for newer players. When older MMOs (this one is more then 6 years old now) keep steep "on-ramps" to their MMO... they discourage any influx of new players... particularly those that are not traditionally MMO players to begin with.

 

Plus.. any competent veteran can easily figure out how to achieve more challenge in their game play if that is what they desire. It's not that hard to do, except during a bonus XP cycle.. but even then ---> White Acute Module. The OP is comparing leveling curve at launch with leveling curve years later..... when in fact they still have the ability to play content in a more challenging way, even with level sync in play. Veterans seem to forget (or simply do not care) that what is too easy for them may very well be just about right for many other players (note: we routinely get threads in the forum complaining about how something is too hard to play in solo play, even today).

 

Of course the reasons I site for being OK with it are also reasons some people get really worked up over it..... they don't want players entering and leveling through the game and not being good at group content in the process. These are typically players who PuG regularly and also come to the forums to complain about others in their random group not playing the way they want them to.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Andryah

Now I am very much a fan of the streamlined level experience and that characters can progress through a story by just doing the planet story arc and personal story arc, and I also really like the fact that players no matter the level can be rewarded no matter whether they are lvl 70 doing Korriban heroics or even just level 45 starting Nar Shadaa in their story.

 

The faster leveling and "streamlined gameplay" is mostly to blame for the so called "dumbed down" content. Characters are many times more powerful at the same level as they were at game launch. In addition, they now have access to abilities on planets that were never designed for those abilities. No matter how much level sync is done, access to those abilities completely unbalances play (not to mention people in gear that is many times the planet level resulting in maxed out stats). The other thing that "easy" leveling has caused is a much wider disparity in player ability. There is a huge difference between a first time character with an empty legacy and a 6-year pro with a full legacy (datacrons, class buffs, companion buffs, etc). We are here mostly because over the years people asked for the content to be easier so they could level faster. It was no one specific playstyle that was responsible but an overall desire by the people who wanted to get their alts to max level as fast as possible.

 

Edit: on the Nar Shadaa statement. A level 45 character on Nar Shadda is about 20 levels overleveled for the planet, gear and ability wise (even with level sync which is just a cap on Mastery, Power, and Endurance). If you were 20 levels over content at launch, it was extremely easy then as well.

Edited February 9, 2018 by DWho

The streamlined content and level sync are basically a plus for any solo player, such as myself. Flashpoints (most of them) have solo modes, and all heroics and missions can be soloed. I can do things at my own pace, carefully pay attention to the dialogues, or stop to admire the details in a forest, swamp, suburb or desert. I truly enjoy that.

 

However, even with level sync, i had played all the side missions so many times i got tired of it, so they made the perfect addition: the Master's Datacron and Equipment. You dont have to level up at all, and you get a full set of endgame gear, and all the abilities, as it should be. This way you just enjoy each of the vanilla stories (the best part of the game) and crush underfoot anyone who crosses your path. You're supposed to be a powerhouse after all.

 

Now, i totally get why group players dont like this. I used to pvp quite a long time ago, and i imagine all the newbies, even level 70s, going into pvp having no idea what to do. That is surely infuriating. Also, when they go into group fps or ops, they dont know rotations or how to use interrupts, etc.

 

However, it's those group players the ones who actually NEED other players to play. So, take your time and try explaining the noobs what to do, instead of raging at them. Otherwise you get what you deserve, which is that the group content simply dies as a consequence of the arrogance and elitism often displayed by group players.

Edited February 9, 2018 by DeVanagloris

I think the choice of how to approach the game has been really improved by level sync. One problem however is the game has become so easy it feels like I am playing on god mode and cannot die.

Unlike before level sync, you actually CAN die now. Prior to level sync, nothing could even hit you if it were 5 levels or more below you. Leveling has always been easy, especially with another player. Level sync just made it so that you could actually play with someone else without being in god mode.

Removing all the rpg elements (dumbing the three attributes down to Mastery, level sync, instant quick travel to everywhere, no need to do side [planetary] missions to level up for the next planet or ever, nerfing unique companions and dumbing down companions in general, taking away skill trees/ hybrids, base classes, the ability to gear yourself 'incorrectly' [even buy gear from other vendors or even for a different spec], taking away unique gear drops from planets, missions, fps, ops and less relate-able to the rest but still annoying- letting matrix cubes go and not adding datacrons (or any reason to explore) to new planets.) is the worst series of decisions Ive ever seen from a team of game developers, and is directly responsible for the poor state of the game and it's population today.

 

I don't know how but, making players run across maps and fly their own ship from planet to planet and fleet really kept the morons from getting to endgame. RIP 2.0

Edited February 9, 2018 by Monumenta

I don't know how but, making players run across maps and fly their own ship from planet to planet and fleet really kept the morons from getting to endgame. RIP 2.0

The advances in quick travel are the best things to happen to this game (besides the cosmetic tabs). Loading screen after loading screen after loading screen was not "RP" worthy for the ridiculousness of the time it wasted...in static space stations that all looked exactly the same. Quick travel and summoning groups has been a saving grace to this game that allows far more people to do far more things.

The advances in quick travel are the best things to happen to this game (besides the cosmetic tabs). Loading screen after loading screen after loading screen was not "RP" worthy for the ridiculousness of the time it wasted...in static space stations that all looked exactly the same. Quick travel and summoning groups has been a saving grace to this game that allows far more people to do far more things.

 

That's great that you think so but my point that there were far superior players in endgame back in those days stands, I hope you're having fun with the much more toxic general community and wadding through the sea of inexperienced rubes that have flooded endgame in the last 3 years but some of us miss the days when there were attention span deterrents from getting there.

Edit: on the Nar Shadaa statement. A level 45 character on Nar Shadda is about 20 levels overleveled for the planet, gear and ability wise (even with level sync which is just a cap on Mastery, Power, and Endurance). If you were 20 levels over content at launch, it was extremely easy then as well.

A recent experiment resulted in me discovering that a level 70 character on Coruscant will have the same Mastery, Endurance, and Health no matter what gear he is using, even if he's using NO GEAR AT ALL. You have 4010 Health on Coruscant even if you take off all your armour, weapons, relics, implants, and your earpiece, and then dismiss your companion. You *still* have 4010 health. (The numbers for Mastery and Endurance are less memorable, but they didn't change either.)

That's great that you think so but my point that there were far superior players in endgame back in those days stands, I hope you're having fun with the much more toxic general community and wadding through the sea of inexperienced rubes that have flooded endgame in the last 3 years but some of us miss the days when there were attention span deterrents from getting there.

There were 1 million freaking players dude...to compare that to what we have now is silly.

 

I actually enjoy helping new players out...it's healthier than mocking them and we're damn lucky they started playing this game...without them, you'd have no one to gasp in awe at how awesome of a player you are.

Dumbed down gameplay has created a dumbed down community of dumbed down players. It's fine if you are playing the solo parts of the game, but when you do anything with a group (get in a queue for anything group finder, PvP, or operations) you notice the devastating effect that making this game too easy has had on the player base.

 

But it's too late to put the cat in the bag now. And it's a crying shame for this game and it's future.

 

That's how I feel about it.

 

Have to agree with this. So my response to the question:

What do people think of the dumbed down gameplay?

The advances in quick travel are the best things to happen to this game (besides the cosmetic tabs). Loading screen after loading screen after loading screen was not "RP" worthy for the ridiculousness of the time it wasted...in static space stations that all looked exactly the same. Quick travel and summoning groups has been a saving grace to this game that allows far more people to do far more things.

 

It's convenient, but it really makes the game feel smaller than it is. Things like instant travel to heroics and skipping space stations are great to make the grind faster, but no cooldown quick travel and automatically unlocked speeder/travel points essentially make most of the map irrelevant to players. Part of the reason people play MMOs is to be in a world filled with other players (whether they choose to interact with them or not). There really is no incentive to travel anywhere on foot or speeder anymore outside of the direct line from the closest travel point to where your next class mission starts.

 

I'd question if some of these conveniences were actually good for the game. If leveling was still a multi-day activity, then I'd say yes. As it already only takes a couple hours to hit max level, why are we in such a rush to get somewhere? If anything, all activities feel more like a grind because you're never not grinding. Finished one activity? Time to immediately quick travel to the next grindy activity. Sure, you can choose to go on foot everywhere, but the game is now balanced around the idea that you can do every heroic on a character in a few hours, so getting enough crates if you're grinding that or credits for the GTN if you're grinding for that will be much harder.

I don't like it. It would have been ok if level sync was regional instead of planet wide and if they had provided difficulty levels so players could choose if they want to be over-leveled for content or not. Oh, and if they set the level sync for instanced areas at the original level intended for the instance rather than the planet level. My impression is that most of the people who like the current iteration of level sync were always vastly over-leveled for the content and simply can't understand that other players stayed on-level or below and liked it that way.

It's convenient, but it really makes the game feel smaller than it is. Things like instant travel to heroics and skipping space stations are great to make the grind faster, but no cooldown quick travel and automatically unlocked speeder/travel points essentially make most of the map irrelevant to players.

I disagree. Here's why...

 

Last night I ran 16 Xeno and the Ilum WB's multiple times. We had players drop in and drop out as they needed to go to other things, replacing them and including others was easy...and making people feel included is GOOD for the game. Allowing me to instantly include other people in group activities only solidifies their sense of 'community' and value imo. Waiting for someone to finish an Op before we summon a group allows that player to do more things than he otherwise would have been able to.

 

You're free to dislike it, but I love it because I believe it has allowed more people to do more things than anything else they've added to this game.

A recent experiment resulted in me discovering that a level 70 character on Coruscant will have the same Mastery, Endurance, and Health no matter what gear he is using, even if he's using NO GEAR AT ALL. You have 4010 Health on Coruscant even if you take off all your armour, weapons, relics, implants, and your earpiece, and then dismiss your companion. You *still* have 4010 health. (The numbers for Mastery and Endurance are less memorable, but they didn't change either.)

 

Well I just took my lvl 17 Jedi Knight from Tython (where he has not yet finished the planet) to Coruscant. He is not maxed in any ability and is wearing Tython level gear (only the gear gained from the Tython planetary missions) and he has a Health of 2097, Armor Rating of 599, Mastery of 174, Endurance of 163, power of 26, and critical of 8. It is the only character I have on Darth Malgus so it has basically 0 achievements complete in legacy (other than the ones I have come across so far on Tython). That means the difference between your character and mine is almost 2000 health. Level, Gear and Achievements make a huge difference.

I actually enjoy helping new players out...it's healthier than mocking them and we're damn lucky they started playing this game...without them, you'd have no one to gasp in awe at how awesome of a player you are.

 

If only more players thought like you. Almost every time someone asks for help in chat they are mocked rather than helped.

In general, I agree with OP.

 

I'm a story player. Used to be you'd stay relatively on-level, "challenge" would more or less match your ability. Sure, it wasn't so tough, but a DPS with a DPS comp could run into difficulties. And boss battles felt sufficiently like what they should be: something that the story has built up to.

 

And yes, lots of benefits to quick travel, and all the great QoL improvements ... but at a cost. Jumping around from place to place disrupts suspension of disbelief. Like Game of Thrones last season where characters jump from Meereen to Kings Landing to the Wall at will.

 

What I'd like:

A crapload less mobs. Like 1/3 to 1/4. Why do games pile so many useless battles on you?

Bring back planet/class story & chapter boss mechanics and challenge. Level them to you.

If only more players thought like you. Almost every time someone asks for help in chat they are mocked rather than helped.

Which is why I /whisper all I can. General chat needs to be policed...

The advances in quick travel are the best things to happen to this game (besides the cosmetic tabs). Loading screen after loading screen after loading screen was not "RP" worthy for the ridiculousness of the time it wasted...in static space stations that all looked exactly the same. Quick travel and summoning groups has been a saving grace to this game that allows far more people to do far more things.

 

Quick travel is good but in my opinion went too far. Quick travel to the quest giver and having to pick it up there and travel to the location bring the game more alive. IF you wanted a quick "gain the mission" effect, putting an option in the conversation to "skip conversation" would have been better though that would likely have needed more programming than just teleport to start.

And yes, lots of benefits to quick travel, and all the great QoL improvements ... but at a cost. Jumping around from place to place disrupts suspension of disbelief. Like Game of Thrones last season where characters jump from Meereen to Kings Landing to the Wall at will.

Then why the hell are you using it??? If it disrupts your "belief", why the hell use it? You're not forced to QT anywhere...so how on Earth can you claim it impacts you in any way when YOU elect to use it?

 

Seriously...what the hell lol?!