Issue 1: Vanguard or Commando Hammer Shot hits a target with 7 separate attacks. Powertech Rapid Shots hits a target with 5 separate attacks and Merc Rapid Shots hits a target with 10 separate attacks. I don't want to break out the math, but this gives Powertech's easily the lowest chance of any Pyro class to trigger CGC, and it gives PT tanks about a 10% lower chance to trigger IGC (lowering Heat Blast's CD) than Vanguard tanks. I would like to ask if they could set the cylinders up in a way that results in all of the final probabilities coming out the same.

While you're not breaking out the math remember that mercenaries have double hits on most ability attacks due to offhand e.g. railshot hits twice

That's relevant because commandos have just the one hit on railshot, power shot, only 3 hits on unload vs 6. In best rotation you don't use default attack at all or extremely rarely.

So in best damage rotations default attack is effectively irrelevant and mercenaries are getting the best deal for chances on CGC procs.

From KeyboardNinja's gearing thread:

 

HM DF Build: {2800,{defense->707,shield->1233,absorb->861}}

HM Average: {2800,{defense->517,shield->1333,absorb->950}}

HM DP Build: {2800,{defense->452,shield->1367,absorb->981}}

 

That's 17.2% defense for HM DP and 20.1% defense for HM DF. (18% defense chance averaging between the ops)

Personally, I think the numbers you give are quite a lot. In practice, this reduces the expected amount of shielded attacks by almost 1/5. I didn't bother to do a precise calculation now, but a rough estimate makes me guess that this influences the average cooldown of Heat Blast by about a second.

If you go over the length of a Boss fight or the combat time during a Warzone/Arena this starts making a difference (especially the additional Absorption you would gain from Heat Blast).

Edit: Nevermind, I found your original post now. I was in a hurry when I wrote this. But I still don't like the idea that defense can actually hurt the mechanics of a tanking tree.

I spent some time thinking about the AoE-mez people are discussing and here's what I think.

This is probably the first time I ever hear someone complain about the lack of cc in SWTORs PvP. It is unlikely that we get another cc option without losing something which would probably be Carbonize.

While I haven't done much PvP since about 2.3 (read: No Arena-experience), I still remember that I was glad to have an AoE-stun and not an AoE-mez on frequent occasions. Especially since we actually have access to an AoE-mez thanks to grenades. While grenades can't be used as frequently as other classes AoE-abilities, I would be somewhat surprised if you would need an AoE-mez almost every time it is available.

In short: With the nerfs to CCs in the past and in 2.7, I doubt that we will get an additional CC-ability without losing one and we have a very good setup right now. An AoE-stun and an AoE-mez seems better to me than two AoE-mezzes, because flexibility is very useful in PvP.

I am not sure what this rambling is about. You say you play tank, which has both HO and JC. You do not mention anything regarding dps, which JC request that a lot some posters have is coming from. Then you say we need to be "open minded." I assume that you want JC base line for PTs. No, and here is why.

Thing is, I play Tank PT and VG because of the leap, That and it's decent fun. I would play Pyro over tank if it had a leap.

I have a level 32 Powertech Tank, and a level 55 Vanguard Tank, i almost exclusively play my Vanguard tank in PvP, and sweep house with things, rarely die, though dont kill things too often but am a general nuisance because of my damage reducers and Taunts. I also play a level 43 Guardian in Vigilance, and once played a 55 Carnage Marauder till i got really bored with it and deleted it for a Sorc, i also have a level 21 Juggernaut in Vengance, I also Main a 55 Operative in Concealment and regularly PvP with it. So I know my PvP and PvE. Though i will say i am on the Harbinger server so PvP isnt my main focus.

 

Also, you forget something, you can Grapple the sniper while he is Rolling... So, Argument Invalid. Just grapple the sniper, Cryo him, and run away. I dont face snipers as my VG tank because i know i havent the tools yet to take one on yet. I rarely ever think of Hydraulic Overrides/Hold The Line because as a Merc in leveling, and as my Vanguard during leveling, i never had them! I didnt level as Tactics or Arsenal, i leveled as Tank, and Healer for my Merc. So, as a result im not conditioned to use them! I typically just use Kolto Overload or Grapple them to me if i can and beat the snot out of them.

 

Edit: If you arent even open to the suggestion you cant even see the results, Maybe if you were more open minded to the idea, it could work! But since your so closed minded, you cant see what could work. If it doesnt work, then you can always just go back to Square one, and re look the ideas.

I am 99.99% certain you cannot pull a Sniper/Slinger while they are rolling. They are immune to all damage/physics while rolling...hence why when I'm on mine, I'll save my roll when going against a PT Pyro for when they use TD so I can resist it.

Thing is, I play Tank PT and VG because of the leap, That and it's decent fun. I would play Pyro over tank if it had a leap.

Pyro doesn't need a GAP closer. Instead it has a snare on sweltering heat that hampers the mobility of a target considerably. You also have six seconds of immunity to roots and slows every 30 seconds. The sweltering heat slow can be re applied pretty much constantly, making any target permanently slower than you because it doesn't affect resolve.

AP runs 20% faster than anyone else with pneumatic boots, it also has a huge slow attached to retractable blade and prototype flame thrower. It also has 9-10 seconds of HO every 30 seconds. AP is the most mobile PT spec. It doesn't need a gap closer.

Tank needs a GAP closer to jump to an enemy that's threatening a healer. That's your job as a tank, to taunt that guy and absorb 50% of his DPS off of that healer. Tank gets six seconds of HO. It doesn't have pneumatic boots, retractable blade, or sweltering heat to control enemies.

Kooziejr isn't the most polite or eloquent guy sometimes, but this is exactly what he means by 'learn to play'. Learn to use the existing tools at your disposal to close gaps as a DPS. The tools are already ridiculously good. Use them!

I am 99.99% certain you cannot pull a Sniper/Slinger while they are rolling. They are immune to all damage/physics while rolling...hence why when I'm on mine, I'll save my roll when going against a PT Pyro for when they use TD so I can resist it.

Ive used Harpoon on a Sniper and an Operative using their rolls, you are Immune to Damage, but not physics or knockback. This also allows for the Jump scatter bombs glitch. you have to time it just right, and pull them as they roll otherwise they pull their cover screen up, and nothing happens. I have been knocked around several times while using Covered Escape/Hightail It and pulled atleast once

Also, you forget something, you can Grapple the sniper while he is Rolling... So, Argument Invalid. Just grapple the sniper, Cryo him, and run away.

Ive used Harpoon on a Sniper and an Operative using their rolls, you are Immune to Damage, but not physics or knockback.

A tooltip from the game says "While rolling, your chance to dodge attacks is increased by 100%." All things affecting physics/knockbacks are attacks! You cannot grapple a sniper WHILE THEY ARE IN THEIR ROLL - it is possible to grapple them when the animation happens but this is due to grapple hitting before the animation started by animation lag. You are IMMUNE to grapple during roll! Don't bother arguing this point with me unless you provide footage of you actually pulling them mid roll.

i almost exclusively play my Vanguard tank in PvP

Thing is, I play Tank PT and VG because of the leap, That and it's decent fun. I would play Pyro over tank if it had a leap.

I rarely ever think of Hydraulic Overrides/Hold The Line because as a Merc in leveling, and as my Vanguard during leveling, i never had them! I didnt level as Tactics or Arsenal, i leveled as Tank, and Healer for my Merc. So, as a result im not conditioned to use them! I typically just use Kolto Overload or Grapple them to me

Yes I get it. You don't play PT DPS but you think you know what is best.......and you don't use Hydraulic override so you want it changed for jet charge because you think "it is fun"... Yes...Okay...........this makes no sense.

But since your so closed minded, you cant see what could work. If it doesnt work, then you can always just go back to Square one

Im not closed minded I just understand and know more about the game than you do. Not necessary to implement a terrible suggestion to see it will not work.

I am not sure what this rambling is about.

No one does. This is so stupid. Sad thing is someone else will say it and get really defensive over later in the thread. This will be the last time I explain it hopefully they will refer to your link so they understand the game and class a little better (highly doubtful they will).

Kooziejr isn't the most polite or eloquent guy sometimes, but this is exactly what he means by 'learn to play'. Learn to use the existing tools at your disposal to close gaps as a DPS. The tools are already ridiculously good. Use them!

I gave up on Mr. nice guy with people who insist on stupid things and waste space in this thread when we could be formulating good questions. So instead I'll just be a jerk to people who make insanely stupid suggestions.

A tooltip from the game says "While rolling, your chance to dodge attacks is increased by 100%." All things affecting physics/knockbacks are attacks! You cannot grapple a sniper WHILE THEY ARE IN THEIR ROLL - it is possible to grapple them when the animation happens but this is due to grapple hitting before the animation started by animation lag. You are IMMUNE to grapple during roll! Don't bother arguing this point with me unless you provide footage of you actually pulling them mid roll.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes I get it. You don't play PT DPS but you think you know what is best.......and you don't use Hydraulic override so you want it changed for jet charge because you think "it is fun"... Yes...Okay...........this makes no sense.

 

 

 

Im not closed minded I just understand and know more about the game than you do. Not necessary to implement a terrible suggestion to see it will not work.

 

 

No one does. This is so stupid. Sad thing is someone else will say it and get really defensive over later in the thread. This will be the last time I explain it hopefully they will refer to your link so they understand the game and class a little better (highly doubtful they will).

 

 

 

I gave up on Mr. nice guy with people who insist on stupid things and waste space in this thread when we could be formulating good questions. So instead I'll just be a jerk to people who make insanely stupid suggestions.

Duran'del here:

Seriously? I understand you know a lot about this game, but you are an ELITIST. You're a great player, but you can't expect for everyone else to be great at this game, too. And I've said this multiple times: PTs are a go-for-the-face style class. Its hard to go for the face when you can't grab it.

Also, we've seen the Fetts, the ORIGINAL bounty Hunters, use their jetpack multiple times, but as a DPS PT, you use it for o w or two skills. And that's it. I don't feel like a BA bounty hunter in this game. I feel like a bumbling idiot who isn't smart enough to realize he has a jetpack.

Duran'del here:

 

Seriously? I understand you know a lot about this game, but you are an ELITIST. You're a great player, but you can't expect for everyone else to be great at this game, too. And I've said this multiple times: PTs are a go-for-the-face style class. Its hard to go for the face when you can't grab it.

 

Also, we've seen the Fetts, the ORIGINAL bounty Hunters, use their jetpack multiple times, but as a DPS PT, you use it for o w or two skills. And that's it. I don't feel like a BA bounty hunter in this game. I feel like a bumbling idiot who isn't smart enough to realize he has a jetpack.

It sounds elitist, but when you balance a class for bad players to excel (smash Mara, assassin). The people who are really good at it are insane and unstoppable, making the class ridiculously overpowered.

Adding jet charge to pyro PT would do that, it would be like the ridiculous number of stuns assassins have, or the knockdown opener for DPS operatives that does 9K damage.

If you want jet charge so bad, stay ion cell. Seriously. I already explained the slow mechanics that DPS PT's have, on top of the PULL, which is twice as good as jet charge. If you refuse to listen, you're as bad as Koozie thinks you are. (A BC pub too, likely not a part of Infamous, I'm hitting close to the mark here)

Example: last night. 1-1 huttball match. 30 seconds left. Frog dogs passed the ball forward Hail Mary style to keep it for the win. I pulled the guy back AWAY from his pet tank and healer, and into a crowd of five DPS allies. We won with seconds left on the clock. The pull is full of win. Jet charge is fail.

I don't feel like a BA bounty hunter in this game. I feel like a bumbling idiot who isn't smart enough to realize he has a jetpack.

That's actually pretty funny. +1 for making me laugh

but you are an ELITIST

That's not true. I happily ask other players how they play their class and what I should do as well as try and teach others AND very rarely do I put people down apart from when they harp on about jet charge. As far as I am concerned, put it in the questions... I feel like enough people in the community actually want it...which is fine. Let's put it in the questions and waste one. And even if they do put it in and exchange it for HO so that I would feel like a "bumbling idiot" playing it against anyone decent I have 2 - 3 other classes I love to play too.

Hot tip for you. Gain jet charge and lose HO against a Carnage mara or Veng jugg. you won't even get 50% of their health off them! Good luck.

Question 3) Some players in the community feel jet charge should be implemented due to lack of mobility of powertechs and inability to engage the enemy such as other melee classes (juggs/maras). Tanks don't have a real use for jet charge so perhaps putting it as a baseline skill where everyone can access it would be wise because its not very fun to play tank but it is much more fun to play as a DPS with jet charge. Also, we feel that a bounter hunter should have jet charge because it doesn't feel like a bounter hunter without it.

These were seriously the arguments I have got form everyone who has every asked for jet charge so far so forgive my sarcasm. Trust me, bioware devs will die laughing reading that...so unless you guys can come up with a very very good explanation as to why it should be added (e.g., parsing will increase 8% and it shouldn't affect PvP balance - but actually make PvP more balanced) than I really think you need to let it go.

On a sidenote, I would definitely use Jet charge if it got added. Not to engage the enemy like I think 95% of people would do but to leap at them when they were trying to retreat and then HO away after I killed them (this would be so insanely OP).

That's actually pretty funny. +1 for making me laugh

 

 

 

That's not true. I happily ask other players how they play their class and what I should do as well as try and teach others AND very rarely do I put people down apart from when they harp on about jet charge. As far as I am concerned, put it in the questions... I feel like enough people in the community actually want it...which is fine. Let's put it in the questions and waste one. And even if they do put it in and exchange it for HO so that I would feel like a "bumbling idiot" playing it against anyone decent I have 2 - 3 other classes I love to play too.

 

Hot tip for you. Gain jet charge and lose HO against a Carnage mara or Veng jugg. you won't even get 50% of their health off them! Good luck.

 

Question 3) Some players in the community feel jet charge should be implemented due to lack of mobility of powertechs and inability to engage the enemy such as other melee classes (juggs/maras). Tanks don't have a real use for jet charge so perhaps putting it as a baseline skill where everyone can access it would be wise because its not very fun to play tank but it is much more fun to play as a DPS with jet charge. Also, we feel that a bounter hunter should have jet charge because it doesn't feel like a bounter hunter without it.

 

These were seriously the arguments I have got form everyone who has every asked for jet charge so far so forgive my sarcasm. Trust me, bioware devs will die laughing reading that...so unless you guys can come up with a very very good explanation as to why it should be added (e.g., parsing will increase 8% and it shouldn't affect PvP balance - but actually make PvP more balanced) than I really think you need to let it go.

 

On a sidenote, I would definitely use Jet charge if it got added. Not to engage the enemy like I think 95% of people would do but to leap at them when they were trying to retreat and then HO away after I killed them (this would be so insanely OP).

I do agree with you about the Hydraulic Overrides Vs Jet Charge, and how amazing HO is for 1v1s. Its an excellent tool, and I've found that its kinda fun to charge a group and activate HO as a "try to stop me now" contingency.

Sorry for calling you an elitist. My brain doesn't work very well at night.

That's actually pretty funny. +1 for making me laugh

 

 

 

That's not true. I happily ask other players how they play their class and what I should do as well as try and teach others AND very rarely do I put people down apart from when they harp on about jet charge. As far as I am concerned, put it in the questions... I feel like enough people in the community actually want it...which is fine. Let's put it in the questions and waste one. And even if they do put it in and exchange it for HO so that I would feel like a "bumbling idiot" playing it against anyone decent I have 2 - 3 other classes I love to play too.

 

Hot tip for you. Gain jet charge and lose HO against a Carnage mara or Veng jugg. you won't even get 50% of their health off them! Good luck.

 

Question 3) Some players in the community feel jet charge should be implemented due to lack of mobility of powertechs and inability to engage the enemy such as other melee classes (juggs/maras). Tanks don't have a real use for jet charge so perhaps putting it as a baseline skill where everyone can access it would be wise because its not very fun to play tank but it is much more fun to play as a DPS with jet charge. Also, we feel that a bounter hunter should have jet charge because it doesn't feel like a bounter hunter without it.

 

These were seriously the arguments I have got form everyone who has every asked for jet charge so far so forgive my sarcasm. Trust me, bioware devs will die laughing reading that...so unless you guys can come up with a very very good explanation as to why it should be added (e.g., parsing will increase 8% and it shouldn't affect PvP balance - but actually make PvP more balanced) than I really think you need to let it go.

 

On a sidenote, I would definitely use Jet charge if it got added. Not to engage the enemy like I think 95% of people would do but to leap at them when they were trying to retreat and then HO away after I killed them (this would be so insanely OP).

Not taking pvp into account as that is not my department, but I rolled PT because it is a cool class ( seems to me like a Predator-Bobba Fett hybrid ) and I knew it would not compare to my marauder's dps ( what the future holds I never know ).

Jet charge will not increase our dps that is a fact and couldn't care less if it didn't , but it will be damn fun to use!

All of this again is pve wise.

Not taking pvp into account as that is not my department, but I rolled PT because it is a cool class ( seems to me like a Predator-Bobba Fett hybrid ) and I knew it would not compare to my marauder's dps ( what the future holds I never know ).

 

Jet charge will not increase our dps that is a fact and couldn't care less if it didn't , but it will be damn fun to use!

 

All of this again is pve wise.

Hell yeah it would be fun! But so would stealth!

Hell yeah it would be fun! But so would stealth!

I agree. PT should have leap, stealth and HO. Last time I played a WZ I died, and I got pretty upset about it. I was like man, if I have vanish. I also think I should have something like hidden strike so when I come out of stealth I can drop 20-25K in 3-4 GCD. I think globaling 2 people while EF is on is fair game. Then before the third one tries to run I will JC then HO. After all, PT is supposed to bad a**.

Man I give up.

I agree. PT should have leap, stealth and HO. Last time I played a WZ I died, and I got pretty upset about it. I was like man, if I have vanish. I also think I should have something like hidden strike so when I come out of stealth I can drop 20-25K in 3-4 GCD. I think globaling 2 people while EF is on is fair game. Then before the third one tries to run I will JC then HO. After all, PT is supposed to bad a**.

 

Man I give up.

Now that would feel like a BH!

Feral pug,

Any news on when we can see what changes PT will receive?

I agree. PT should have leap, stealth and HO. Last time I played a WZ I died, and I got pretty upset about it. I was like man, if I have vanish. I also think I should have something like hidden strike so when I come out of stealth I can drop 20-25K in 3-4 GCD. I think globaling 2 people while EF is on is fair game. Then before the third one tries to run I will JC then HO. After all, PT is supposed to bad a**.

 

Man I give up.

Doood, what about coming out of stealth give us 3 stacks of PFT and also using Immolate as an opener makes the target lay down on the floor for 3s? Oh oh oh and everytime we exit combat our Explosive fuel cd resets so we can use 25% crit on every fight we enter!

Hmmm, add stealth to retractable blade and shoulder cannon and BW might just hear from the legal department of whoever holds the rights to the predator franchise:p

Still, then they might have to put in Jet Charge to defend why the BH is completely different to Preds after all:rak_03:

Doood, what about coming out of stealth give us 3 stacks of PFT and also using Immolate as an opener makes the target lay down on the floor for 3s? Oh oh oh and everytime we exit combat our Explosive fuel cd resets so we can use 25% crit on every fight we enter!

I 100% support this. I also think that all attacks should be 35 meters (including RP and RB, and don't ask how) so those pesky ranged have nothing on me . Also, since invulnerability seems to be the new DCD fade, activating chaff flare should raise our melee, ranged and tech damage by 100%. Snipers are no better than us!

I feel bad for Jerc. He is probably reading this and is like *** is this $hit.

You know...

We're missing something.

Sure, jet charge and stealth would be fun and everthing, but think of the big picture. Neither of these bring extra raid utility in PvE as well as PvP.

They should give us a heal. And not a crappy heal like Rapid Shots for mercs, but an awesome one. Something like...

Using flame burst heals all allies for 2X - where X is the damage you did with flame burst.

BAM

RAID UTILITY

FUN

WIN

Added benifit - They will now focus the PT tank, because they dont want him healing all of his team mates. Just like people focus down guardians/shadows to get rid of the annoying CC they deal out.

And if we ever happen to be losing I think we should have an ability that nukes the whole game to make it a draw instead of a loss.

Something like a miniature nuclear device in our bracer?