the lowbie bracket is the most innately imbalanced form of PvP i have ever seen.

 

skill based PvP in lowbies, lol

Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

 

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..

 

I agree totally. You get tossed into pvp with recruit gear and are expected to compete with people in WH or higher gear right from the start. Total BS. I am a casual player, I don't get to sit on my pc for hours and earn coms for gear. Bio needs to separate the WZ's somehow. I love PVP I hate getting gang banged by some shadow with 24k in hit points over and over again not doing any damage to him getting my 2 mercy coms and starting over again. I guess if these ego elites get there kicks by killing new PvP 50's over and over, they have bigger issues they need to deal with. Make it a challenge ffs and go up against players of equal gear and rank.

Lower level 49 is awesome fun, people just getting in there and having a go, ive levelled 3 toons through class quests and pvp only and absolutely love it..........UNTIL you hit level 50 and decided to get full war hero and its pug pug pug vs team team team with everybody bored to death of massacre one way or the other.

 

GET THE TEAMS out of pugs please and stick them in ranked.....and bring the fun back into 50 pvp for all our sakes.............50 pvp is a massive chore and BORING................pvp is brilliant but landslides either way do nobody any good at all.

Not sure what server you play on, but on mine I never have to wait more that 2 minutes for a solo queue. If premades are bothering you that much, join a pvp guild.

the lowbie bracket is the most innately imbalanced form of PvP i have ever seen.

 

skill based PvP in lowbies, lol

 

This ^

 

10-49 pvp is ridiculously unbalanced, and seriously people complaining about how hard it is to get War Hero gear? You can do the dailies for a few weeks and have enough to get most of a set.

Ya, I feel lowbie pvp is balanced. When I used completed quests inside a wz and put on all legacy augmented near min/maxed wh gear on my jug some of the players I smashed still had some health left. So it was obviously very balanced .

I agree totally. You get tossed into pvp with recruit gear and are expected to compete with people in WH or higher gear right from the start. Total BS. I am a casual player, I don't get to sit on my pc for hours and earn coms for gear. Bio needs to separate the WZ's somehow. I love PVP I hate getting gang banged by some shadow with 24k in hit points over and over again not doing any damage to him getting my 2 mercy coms and starting over again. I guess if these ego elites get there kicks by killing new PvP 50's over and over, they have bigger issues they need to deal with. Make it a challenge ffs and go up against players of equal gear and rank.

While I agree that it's not completely fair that people from different gear tiers have to compete against eachother I also feel that the gear "issue" is the player's responsibility. There's really no justification for entering the 50-bracket in full recruit. If PvP is in your interest you've probably played warzones pre-50 too and had time to save up comms. Saying that you don't have hours to play every day is not an excuse. It can take a person 6 months to ding 50 but what's important is what he/she is doing with the time he/she has at his/her disposal. If you want to level through PvE it's your choice but you also have the choice to do it through warzones. As I see it end-game PvE doesnt start until you ding 50, end-game PvP starts much sooner.

 

You don't see PvP'ers posting that it's unfair that they can't take on EC NiM because they chose to spend their time in warzones instead of gearing up through other operations.

 

Another thing is that people seem to think that they will be able to raise hell from the get-go. Lower your expecations and play the roles you can play instead of trying to solo 3 people in recruit gear. It's the same as in lowbie, some AC'es have to adjust at the lower levels on behalf of not having all of their abilties. And regardless of whether or you play 1h or 100h per week it's going to take more or less the same amount of games to gear up ("more or less" because of the weekly), it's not like people with a lot of time on their hands simply are given the gear.

Edited March 28, 2013 by MidichIorian

Go to The Progenitor EU (RP server) and play 50wz.

We don't have any ranked match, so there is no "we premades just wait for rwz, so why not destroy some pugs?" excuse.

They (premades) just destroy random pugs all time, i don't know what satisfaction they get from this :/

 

My opinion:

1. BW must create some cross server wz's and separate pugs from groups of premades.

2. OP specs (now: sweap/smash, pyro's and bubblestun) totally ruining fun of playing what you like, because it almost force you to play OP spec (because your opponents play it), so balance is veeeeery important thing to do.

Edited March 28, 2013 by hellspawnpl

the lowbie bracket is the most innately imbalanced form of PvP i have ever seen.

 

skill based PvP in lowbies, lol

Yes and no. Both lowbie and 50 lack balance is a bunch of areas but assuming that everyone was set to level 49 in lowbie and bolstered we'd have the best PvP this game possibly could get, for the simple reason that there's less difference between certain AC'es when they're equally geared at lvl 49 than there will ever be at 50. 50 allows some serious abuse of power stacking, something that benefits some AC'es while others not so much.

Yes and no. Both lowbie and 50 lack balance is a bunch of areas but assuming that everyone was set to level 49 in lowbie and bolstered we'd have the best PvP this game possibly could get, for the simple reason that there's less difference between certain AC'es when they're equally geared at lvl 49 than there will ever be at 50. 50 allows some serious abuse of power stacking, something that benefits some AC'es while others not so much.

 

the imbalance of lowbie PvP has nothing to do with gearing.

 

you are matching players with different amounts of character progression, incomplete skill trees, and incomplete ability complements. class balance is designed around performance at 50; how can you even begin to compare even two classes of the same level when they are below 50? the short answer is, you cannot.

 

as far as what you can an imbalance in 50 PvP, every player has the ability to min/max their gear. ignoring the advantages/disadvantages certain classes innately have, 50 PvP is "balanced", with the only real variable being player skill. which, because their is such a wide range of player skill, does often result in very imbalanced warzones. but that is out of anyones control but the individual players.

.....ignoring the advantages/disadvantages certain classes innately have, 50 PvP is "balanced".....

That's one hell of a contradiction.

 

Personally I'd say that there's less difference between a lvl 21 sorc and a lvl 49 mara, in terms of output (burst), than there will ever be between said AC'es at 50. Same applies to commando contra every other class in the game. The only AC that can be somewhat OP in lowbie is sniper, with their 6K hits. I've never been smashed for more than 4,7 K in lowbie in gear where I'm able to probably put out somewhere in the 4K on my sage. Compare that to taking 7K hits in 1396 expertise but not being able to deal more than 3,5 on an equally geared opponent. Hence, i will always maintain that lowbie between lvl 45 and lvl 49, and preferably 49, would be more balanced. Add stricter diminishing returns on power at 50 and it will be the same thing, better PvP.

 

And yes, I'm aware that I'm talking about a dream scenario where everyone in the game has give or take the same level and decent gear but apply the same dream scenario to lvl 50, everyone in min/maxed ewh, and you'd have much greater differences between classes.

Edited March 28, 2013 by MidichIorian

That's one hell of a contradiction.

 

Personally I'd say that there's less difference between a lvl 21 sorc and a lvl 49 mara, in terms of output (burst), than there will ever be between said AC'es at 50. Same applies to commando contra every other class in the game. The only AC that can be somewhat OP in lowbie is sniper, with their 6K hits. I've never been smashed for more than 4,7 K in lowbie in gear where I'm able to probably put out somewhere in the 4K on my sage. Compare that to taking 7K hits in 1396 expertise but not being able to deal more than 3,5 on an equally geared opponent. Hence, i will always maintain that lowbie between lvl 45 and lvl 49, and preferably 49, would be more balanced. Add stricter diminishing returns on power at 50 and it will be the same thing, better PvP.

 

And yes, I'm aware that I'm talking about a dream scenario where everyone in the game has give or take the same level and decent gear but apply the same dream scenario to lvl 50, everyone in min/maxed ewh, and you'd have much greater differences between classes.

 

that is what im talking about with "innate imbalances" between classes. nothing can be done to improve that no matter what level you are. at 50 tho you have all the tools the devs intend for you to have. until that point, you really dont (arguably at 48 or 49 you do, but that speaks to the greater imbalance in lowbie PvP than anything else)

 

as far as "stricter diminishing returns on power", there are none at the moment. but that is something i agree with you on, bonus damage needs to have a DR curve just like crit, surge, and all the other stats. TTK will never increase until that happens.

Edited March 28, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

This is still a pretty big problem.

 

Beyond just Premades vs PUGs, there's the issue of matching recruit vs Elite War Hero. I'm not really sure if this will be fixed much with the launch of 2.0 and Bolster, since that still might leave well geared PVPers well ahead of anyone coming in with stock 55 blue gear.

It's getting dull now. I picked up my weekly on monday, played about 30 wz's since then and was only able to finish it on the the 29th. Out of these 30 wz's at LEAST 20 times (I did count them) I went against a premade of either imps or pubs. How many times did I get a premade on my side? only three times and I still got roflstomped by guess what? another premade on the opposite side. So now not only do we have more premades on both sides but also some of them are AWFUL and sometimes WORSE than a common PUG.

 

I know some people will be like 'get a guild, make friends and queue group stop qqing already' and I think this is easier said than done, especially if you are part of a guild that runs premades almost throughout the entire day/afternoon/evening. Because let's be honest... Those who like to queue as a group are people who want easy wins/easy pvp because you KNOW that you will most unlikely get to fight a decent team but you are not to be blamed, the whole thing starts with allowing groups to match up against people who solo que (like me and lots of people). But once again, people make groups because they want easy wins/comms/farm people or whatever so it kinda seems like the system is being abused. And if you fight a good premade it's like fighting 4 people at the same time when you attack one of their group.

 

Apologies in advance for the wall of text.

Its a mmo so your meant to be able to group with friends. I dont think premades are the problem more noobs rocking up in greens and 200 expertise. Then those same noobs scream in ops chat that its unfair that they cant hurt the opposition...

premade is just 4 people. imho rotflolstomp starts when you have 2x4 premade (so ranked team to qued for regular warzone and got into one on same side) or 2 good premades that got into one warzone together by accident.

 

How about, making a que the way that if a premade ques in, they will be put against other premade, and if there is already premade in team, only solo que and 2 mans would be allowed in same team?

 

problem with 2x4 is not because it's hard and comptetitive.

It's 8 good players, vs statisticly (totally made up numbers - just my observations) 4 good gear good game players, 1 good game semi gear player, 1 muppet valor 10 who didnt learn how to pass the ball yet (it's just an expression, he won't get it any way, since won't know how to position, but it's a figure of speech), 1 rage quitter and 1 of random lot.

you are matching players with different amounts of character progression, incomplete skill trees, and incomplete ability complements.

 

In my opinion : This additionally to the lack of good gear.

Now everyone is talking about undergeared people but how do you expect people to get better gear if you lose all the time??

I had two matches against teams of 8 from the same guild today. Why on Earth would you let in 8 people in the same non-ranked warzone?

 

Or why not put them on opposite sides? 2x4 premade vs. 8x1 PuG is about as bad as matchmaking can get. Wouldn't it be better to have 4 people from the 8man team on both sides and fill the rest with pugs?

 

I can live with 4man premades in regulars. But come on 8 mans? How big an advantage do you want over pugs?

Those who like to queue as a group are people who want easy wins/easy pvp because you KNOW that you will most unlikely get to fight a decent team but you are not to be blamed, the whole thing starts with allowing groups to match up against people who solo que (like me and lots of people). But once again, people make groups because they want easy wins/comms/farm people or whatever so it kinda seems like the system is being abused. And if you fight a good premade it's like fighting 4 people at the same time when you attack one of their group.

 

Apologies in advance for the wall of text.

 

No. People who queue together do so because they are friends who enjoy playing together in a MULTIPLAYER game.

 

If it's so easy win mode in a group, why such opposition to doing it?

 

1 Make friends

2 Group up

3 Communicate

 

Anyone who whines about premades ruining warzones has trouble with one or more of those things. (They probably have trouble with those in real life too). It is not a game issue. It is a personal issue. Bioware cannot fix your life. There is no solution except L2P.

 

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Arlanon

No. People who queue together do so because they are friends who enjoy playing together in a MULTIPLAYER game.

 

If it's so easy win mode in a group, why such opposition to doing it?

 

1 Make friends

2 Group up

3 Communicate

 

Anyone who whines about premades ruining warzones has trouble with one or more of those things. (They probably have trouble with those in real life too). It is not a game issue. It is a personal issue. Bioware cannot fix your life. There is no solution except L2P.

 

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

 

I don't have an issue with 4 friends playing together in an MMO game. But come on, lately I have seen tons of 8man teams from the same guild on my server. The game should never put more than 4 people from the same ops group on one team in a regular game.

 

There is a line between playing with friends for fun and farming regular warzones for commendations with an 8man ranked-geared team. The latter is on the far side of the line.

Edited March 28, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

Yea right, I was in a half assed premade the other night and lost almost every match, then when I solo qued I started going on a winning streak. Sometimes pre-mades actually cause you to lose matches, especially if you got one bad player or two in the mix. I don't run with pre mades all the time to "roll pugs" , I usually do it because guildies want to go along with somebody, and me being that friendly guildie I join/invite to the group.

What will help this problem is if they just added a voip system IN game... People will sit here and say "oh you can just use vent" well I have and use vent, but what about the 4 other people in the group or 6 other people in the group that aren't in your vent...

Sick and tired of going into warzones with people that are uncoordinated, I don't have time to tell every warzone group to join my vent, and most of them wouldn't anyhow because it is a hassle for them to set it up right before a warzone.

 

Just add an in game system, this will help alot of people out with their "pre made" issues. I don't personally have an issue with them, and most of the time I would prefer one, but then while we are talking in vent there are like 4-6 other people not in our vent so they don't know what we are talking about.

No. People who queue together do so because they are friends who enjoy playing together in a MULTIPLAYER game.

 

If it's so easy win mode in a group, why such opposition to doing it?

 

1 Make friends

2 Group up

3 Communicate

 

Anyone who whines about premades ruining warzones has trouble with one or more of those things. (They probably have trouble with those in real life too). It is not a game issue. It is a personal issue. Bioware cannot fix your life. There is no solution except L2P.

 

I can't believe this thread is still going on.

 

You can tell folks to make 4 friends and stomp the normal wz queue, but why do you not make 4 more friends and join the ranked queue as an 8man premade? Isnt that what ranked was developed for? OR does having 4 IRL friends make you feel like you win at real life and anyone <4 or >4 are justReal life losers? People who use this argument, yet cannot make 4 more friends themselves and played ranked are just hypocrits. They WANT to stomp pugs. They want to laugh in vent, and use the advantages of out-of-game communication pugs don't have to stomp and laugh and get their easy comms.

 

Get 4 more folks and join ranked, or is it too hard for you? The big-bad 8-man premades touch you in naughty places and bruise your ego, stomping all over you? Kinda the same argument the pugs are making against the premades in the normal queue, isnt it? Perhaps its a l2p issue for YOU. L2P in a 8man ranked premade and be competitive rather than pug stomping in the normal queue.

 

/rant

I kinda only run in premade groups and getting kinda bored. We want to face other premade teams and really get good matches and stuff but its close to impossible. Whenever we que for ranked warzone it can literally take more then 1 hour to get a match. So in the end we just que up normal and play vs pugs. And truth be told steamrolling pugs is fun for 1 a 2 days, but after that it gets really boring and its no fun for pug either off course.

 

Solution.. put some greater rewards on ranked warzones that are REALLY worth it. In combination with cross-server pvp the que times would go down.

 

Unless something along those gets done u will probably see fewer premade groups vs pug matches. But untill then... waiting an hour for a ranked warzone to popup is not an option. So sorry