Since this is a discussion about the most powerful users in canon, let's describe what's canon.

According to Disney's official statement, everything below is considered canon with no superiority of one over another.

WHAT'S CANON

Star Wars Canon Timeline (IMAGE)

The Movies (Latest Blu-Ray version)

Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008, Animation)

All Star Wars materials after April 2014 except anything related to video games.

(Lucasfilm Story Group creative executive Pablo Hidalgo confirmed games are not canon because of the nature of video games. He was referring to game mechanics such as different player choices and different endings)

Official Disney Statement on What's Canon:

While Lucasfilm always strived to keep the stories created for the EU consistent with our film and television content as well as internally consistent, Lucas always made it clear that he was not beholden to the EU. He set the films he created as the canon. This includes the six Star Wars episodes, and the many hours of content he developed and produced in Star Wars: The Clone Wars. These stories are the immovable objects of Star Wars history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.

Logical Rules in Comparison:

1. Absolute statements overrule feats.

2. If there has been no need for one force user to display a greater feat, it doesn't mean s/he can't. If s/he lost a fight, an important purpose or lives of own or nearby others s/he cared about, it means there has been a "need" for a greater feat and s/he couldn't display it.

1. Darth Vader (The Chosen One, brang Son and Daughter (the Ones) to their kness, Killed Palpatine with one hand, immensely powerful in the new canon material,)

2. The Ones (Exceptionally powerful force wilders, Celestials. The Father, the Son and the Daughter. Almost living embodiments of the Force)

3. Yoda (When he was 900-years old he fought Palpatine. Palpatine tried to run away from the fight and had shown fear on his face throughout the fight. Yoda was unlucky with his position ( trying to reach above from the lower ground during the fight) and the gravity was working against him when he used TK. Because of his small size he dropped to the ground and Palpatine's guards came. So, he left. If it wasn't for the environment, the fate (refer to the prohecy) and the guards Yoda would defeat him eventually)

4. Mace Windu (Defeated Palpatine, respected and acknowledged Yoda's superiority, supports above)

5. Darth Sidious (Defeated Talzin with the help of Dooku and Grevious but Talzin had Maul's help too)

6. Mother Talzin (Was shown almost as powerful as Sidious in the canon comic)

7. Obi-Wan Kenobi (Defeated young Vader, almost killed Darth Maul, killed General Grievous)

8. Count Dooku (Defeated young Kenobi and very young Anakin Skywalker at the same time, killed by young Vader)

9. Luke Skywalker (Vader didn't show his full power against his son but Luke still bested conflicted and light-hearted Vader who was trying to lure him to the dark side. Luke also resisted the Emperor's influence )

10. Darth Maul (Killed Qui-gon Jinn, he's a survivor and he's still alive)

11. Qui-Gon Jinn (Very skilled fighter, great force knowledge, learned how to become one with the force)

12. Typical Jedi Council Member (Plo Koon, Kit Fisto etc.)

13. Kylo Ren (Had shown great force power)

14. Rey (Defeated injured Kylo-Ren, immense force potential)

15. Ahsoka (Could duel Ventress while she was a padawan with some help from another force user, quickly defeated two inquisitors as an adult)

16. Savage Opress (He could force-choke Dooku and Ventress in the same time)

17. Asajj Ventress (Was shown as a skilled fighter and assassin, dueled Kenobi and Anakin at the same time and survived a couple of times)

18. Quinlan Vos (Close to Ventress)

?. Kanan (Surely there were more powerful force users than him)

?. The Grand Inquisitor (Kanan eventually defeated him at last but he had shown decent skill with the force)

?. Ezra (Good force potential, only a child)

?. Snoke (He has great connection to the Force, is capable of sensing emotions and reading thoughts, wise and can see events from afar. Trains Kylo Ren, is the leader of the First Order)

?. Darth Bane (Created the sith rule of two and he's even known by the Jedi)

?. Darth Plagueis (According to Palpatine, he is so powerful and so wise that he could create life and save people from death. If what Palpatine says is true, then he is Godlike and no doubt takes the first spot)

For draft purposes, here's my rough list and the explanation I wrote in an another thread.

1. Yoda

2. Mace Windu

3. Sheev Palpatine

4. Darth Vader

5. Obi-Wan Kenobi

6. Count Dooku

7. Luke Skywalker

8. Darth Maul

9. Qui-Gon Jinn

10. Savage Opress

?. Darth Plagueis

?. Darth Bane

As for Yoda, in TCW series, Yoda destroyed Palpatine in a spiritual realm. In the movie, Yoda had the upper hand imo. Sheev tried to run. Sheev tried to maintain his distance with Yoda. Sheev ran away from the lightsaber fight. Sheev was throwing pods with the gravity's enormous help while Yoda was holding, spinning and throwing a pod against the gravity's enormous resistance. Sheev's face was in agony more than a couple times.

I think Yoda and Sidious were almost equal in ROTS but if it wasn't for the short time Yoda had in the emperor's chambers, he could gain the upper hand. And there are other obvious clues about Palpatine's fear in the fight.

 

As George Lucas said Mace Windu defeated Palpatine fair and square.

 

We know Vader in ep IV is more powerful than ep III Anakin where he mentioned it in the movie and Obi-Wan barely defeated Anakin in III and Obi-Wan knew he couldn't kill Vader in IV.

 

Ep III Anakin killed Dooku quickly.

 

Luke Skywalker has just become a jedi knight in the 6th movie and all the other force users I mentioned before had shown far more greater skills.

 

Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon but killed by Obi-wan in ep I.

 

Savage Opress could force choke Dooku and Ventress at the same time and push them to wall in his rage and seemed to have the upper hand in his fights against Ventress.

1. Yoda, Mace Windu, Sheev Palpatine, Darth Vader, Mother Talzin

For draft purposes, here's my rough list and the explanation I wrote in an another thread.

 

1. Yoda

2. Mace Windu

3. Sheev Palpatine

4. Darth Vader

5. Obi-Wan Kenobi

6. Count Dooku

7. Luke Skywalker

8. Darth Maul

9. Qui-Gon Jinn

10. Savage Opress

?. Darth Plagueis

?. Darth Bane

 

 

 

 

 

Nominees for the Most Powerful Force User in the Galaxy

1. Yoda, Mace Windu, Sheev Palpatine, Darth Vader

First I would say calling the entire prior thread as fan fiction is extreme. yes there are one, maybe two, characters that should not have been considered BUT using the old Canon rules it works (aside from them)

My only issue is continuing that thread with the Holocron being gone. In essence it becomes a "who is the bigger bully thread" Because Leland Chee's final word is now lost in the ether.

That said I would actually put Luke as number 1... why? Look at his speed of advancement. He goes (accroding to the Star Wars timeline) from no knowledge of the force to being able to being able to stop Sidious force lightning from killing him (if you read the novel the reason he is in pain and not dead is NOT because Sidious is torturing him but because he is capable of preventing Sidious from killing him) in only 4 years. He beats Vader who has been one of the best duelists over he course of 20-30 years after 4 years of training. He ultimately only lack refinement...not power...else he would have been complete toast.

The Skywalkers are the most powerful, jesus folks how many times does this need to be stated "word of god"?

Well problem is that Lucas has ZERO input as of April 2014. He sold the IP, Diusney is making their own world and COMPLETELY locked him out of the process as of their new canon date. So what Lucas said in the past is not as relevant to the new Canon. You have to take his statements and then compare them to the context of the new Canon.

The Skywalkers are the most powerful, jesus folks how many times does this need to be stated "word of god"?

There's nothing about that in the canon. Can you provide your source?

First I would say calling the entire prior thread as fan fiction is extreme. yes there are one, maybe two, characters that should not have been considered BUT using the old Canon rules it works (aside from them)

 

My only issue is continuing that thread with the Holocron being gone. In essence it becomes a "who is the bigger bully thread" Because Leland Chee's final word is now lost in the ether.

 

That said I would actually put Luke as number 1... why? Look at his speed of advancement. He goes (accroding to the Star Wars timeline) from no knowledge of the force to being able to being able to stop Sidious force lightning from killing him (if you read the novel the reason he is in pain and not dead is NOT because Sidious is torturing him but because he is capable of preventing Sidious from killing him) in only 4 years. He beats Vader who has been one of the best duelists over he course of 20-30 years after 4 years of training. He ultimately only lack refinement...not power...else he would have been complete toast.

If it's not canon, then it's simply fan fiction nothing else. EU has never been canon in fact. It was just EU fanboys tried to get a few words from Lucas to believe it in their minds.

As for Luke as number 1... The speed of advancement is a good point but we can't know if he could keep up with the pace. Besides, we know that he got an accelarated training with basics. Still, in the last movie he was nowhere near the most powerful force user.

Also, that thing about Luke trying to prevent Sidious' lightning from killing him has not been in any canon material.

Prime Yoda, Mace, Palpatine, Vader, Kenobi and Dooku are all more powerful than Luke Skywalker.

Luke barely become a jedi knight in the end of the sixth movie and he's never shown anything but lightsaber skills despite there has been a need for greater skills several times in the episode V and VI in his fights with Vader and his confrontation with Palpatine. In an all out power showdown, all the others I mentioned has shown far more greater feats.

I would participate, but you refuse to accept the novelisations as canon, which is problematic. Its problematic because, especially in regards to in-depth discussion - the novels are a vital supplement to the movie material, which is in the end inadequate in fully conveying every aspect of the scenes it depicts, by way of the visual medium it relies on.

The movies raise a lot of questions, and more often than not they fail to give answers, the visual medium remaining often vague and difficult to decipher, the audience is in many respects left to guess. The novelisations however, were a solution to that, providing answers to many of the questions raised, and clearing up various misconceptions.

These answers were endorsed and directly edited/approve by George Lucas, as supplements to the films:

By taking them out of the equation, and considering the films in their absence, we willfully embrace ignorance, and attempt to construct an absolute list from an inadequate source, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot do.

For example, we all know the only reason Windu was able to contend with Sidious is because of Vaapad, because he was able to channel Palpatine's energy and use it for his own purposes. Whereas in reality, Sidious totally eclipses Windu in ability. TCW knows that as well, and that is why Windu is depicted as nowhere near Sidious in ability.

But Vaapad isn't part of the new Canon, everyone knows Windu uses Vaapad, even Lucas, but Vaapad is never mentioned in the movies (for purely cinematic reasons) and so by ignoring Legends, it no longer exists.

This is what happens when we pretend the EU no longer exists, and is all fan fiction.

I have little doubt this will do nothing to change your opinions, but if this thread ever actually kicks off I can assure you you will run into many more problems like this, and the final list will ultimately be laughably illogical (see Windu > Sidious) because the people actually producing the content, do not regard the EU as irrelevant as you do.

Your "What's Canon" list doesn't even include everything that is a part of the new canon.

That made me laugh.

Your "What's Canon" list doesn't even include everything that is a part of the new canon.

 

That made me laugh.

For draft purposes, here's my rough list and the explanation I wrote in an another thread.

 

1. Yoda

2. Mace Windu

3. Sheev Palpatine

4. Darth Vader

5. Obi-Wan Kenobi

6. Count Dooku

7. Luke Skywalker

8. Darth Maul

9. Qui-Gon Jinn

10. Savage Opress

?. Darth Plagueis

?. Darth Bane

 

 

 

 

 

Nominees for the Most Powerful Force User in the Galaxy

1. Yoda, Mace Windu, Sheev Palpatine, Darth Vader

What about Talzin? She made a joke of count dooku and completely pushed Windu back with ease. In fact, mace, who is a "Sword" specialist completely backed off from her in a brief engagement in a "duel" in which she doesn't specialize. If Windu > Sidious in your mind wouldn't that make Talzin > All? Given how easily she bested Windu? Without the novels you can't use "vaapad" in his Sidious duel. So where does this place Talzin? He also blocked Sidious lightning but ran from Talzin's attack. In fact, he took shelter against it like one would against a blaster.

Your "What's Canon" list doesn't even include everything that is a part of the new canon.

 

That made me laugh.

Can we make a case for Talzin being number 1 in this thread?

completely pushed Windu back with ease. In fact, mace, who is a "Sword" specialist completely backed off from her in a brief engagement in a "duel" in which she doesn't specialize.

You guys say this a lot, were we watching different TCW?

https://youtu.be/y207JIwQXcw?t=45s

You guys say this a lot, were we watching different TCW?

https://youtu.be/y207JIwQXcw?t=45s

Apparently. Windu charges Talzin and engages her in combat. This is completely in character of him as he's an offensive style duelist. After a few swings what does he do? Starts backing off and even drops to a lower platform. This even gives her the higher ground advantage.

There's a term for this. Being pushed back. If this was Obi Wan it wouldn't mean anything as he fights completely defensively. Soresu is a canon style. Windu, on the other hand, isn't a defensive fighter. For him to fall back like that would mean he's at a disadvantage. Talzin is the one pressing the attack. Not Windu. Someone can try to make the case she caught him by surprise but this isn't accurate either. Windu engaged her first but was forced back almost immediately after locking blades.

Not once is he able to make her give even an inch.

Apparently. Windu charges Talzin and engages her in combat. This is completely in character of him as he's an offensive style duelist. After a few swings what does he do? Starts backing off and even drops to a lower platform. This even gives her the higher ground advantage.

 

There's a term for this. Being pushed back. If this was Obi Wan it wouldn't mean anything as he fights completely defensively. Soresu is a canon style. Windu, on the other hand, isn't a defensive fighter. For him to fall back like that would mean he's at a disadvantage. Talzin is the one pressing the attack. Not Windu. Someone can try to make the case she caught him by surprise but this isn't accurate either. Windu engaged her first but was forced back almost immediately after locking blades.

Windu disengaged once, not a big deal. And I actually think he was just distracting her...

Windu disengaged once, not a big deal. And I actually think he was just distracting her...

Why bother to distract someone you are capable of defeating. If you fight to distract someone it usually means you're trying to buy time. This is a perfectly valid strategy when the opponent you're facing is more powerful than yourself. He disengaged, again, right after he engaged. He gave up ground. Again, this is a big deal for someone who is offensive. Even when he charged her he couldn't draw her back one step. She was pushing forward the entire time.

Why bother to distract someone you are capable of defeating.

Why fight someone that powerful when you can defeat her with other means. He knew this ritual is all she's got.

Why fight someone that powerful when you can defeat her with other means. He knew this ritual is all she's got.

He didn't know she'd vanish after the ritual. Not to mention there's no need to disengage. If she saw Jar Jar and tried going for him he'd have the advantage of attacking her while she's distracted. If he was an even level opponent to her and if she tries to divert her attention between him and someone else that would give him an advantage to win. The problem here is that you're speculating. There's no reliable proof that he was doing it just to buy time and that he could have had the potential to defeat her otherwise if given the chance.

There is, however, plenty of evidence that he was being pushed back, giving ground, and even took shelter from her attack (we have seen Jedi draw their sabers in time to block lightning. Windu took shelter like one would against blaster bolt fire when not having the means to protect themselves from it.) This alone means nothing but it does when we see her engage and Windu falling back. There's also this fact as well..

Windu specializes himself as a swordsman. He's known for his capabilities in dueling. Talzin is noted as a Shaman with her specialty in rituals. She was able to push Windu back in an arena he's specialized in. Something no one else has managed to do. Not even Sidious had been able to push Windu like that.

The first time we see Talzin participate in saber-play or even see it mentioned is when she is showing she has the advantage against someone of Windu's caliber. I think given the rules of the original poster's thread that this allows Talzin a candidate as the strongest force user in the new Canon.

The problem here is that you're speculating. There's no reliable proof that he was doing it just to buy time and that he could have had the potential to defeat her otherwise if given the chance.

 

There is, however, plenty of evidence that he was being pushed back, giving ground, and even took shelter from her attack (we have seen Jedi draw their sabers in time to block lightning. Windu took shelter like one would against blaster bolt fire when not having the means to protect themselves from it.) This alone means nothing but it does when we see her engage and Windu falling back. There's also this fact as well..

 

Windu specializes himself as a swordsman. He's known for his capabilities in dueling. Talzin is noted as a Shaman with her specialty in rituals. She was able to push Windu back in an arena he's specialized in. Something no one else has managed to do. Not even Sidious had been able to push Windu like that.

I might be speculating (which we all do in threads like these btw), but you guys give too much weight to a 10 secod duel.

Windu hid from the lightning because that was the best thing he could do. Why do flashy things like catching it with hand or lightsaber when he can do a simple side step and avoid the whole damn thing?

Disengage =/= pushback. He could've had dozens of reasons to fall back, he was even dodging Talzin's strikes. If she was so much better she would've been faster too and hack Windu in pieces.

That duel was just too damn short to say it either way, you just see things in it you want to see and vice versa with others.

What about Talzin? She made a joke of count dooku and completely pushed Windu back with ease. In fact, mace, who is a "Sword" specialist completely backed off from her in a brief engagement in a "duel" in which she doesn't specialize. If Windu > Sidious in your mind wouldn't that make Talzin > All? Given how easily she bested Windu? Without the novels you can't use "vaapad" in his Sidious duel. So where does this place Talzin? He also blocked Sidious lightning but ran from Talzin's attack. In fact, he took shelter against it like one would against a blaster.

 

 

 

Can we make a case for Talzin being number 1 in this thread?

"Son of Dathomir" is a canon instalment, so yes, it would be rather easy to make an argument for Talzin as number 1 in this thread.

If it's not canon, then it's simply fan fiction nothing else. EU has never been canon in fact. It was just EU fanboys tried to get a few words from Lucas to believe it in their minds.

 

As for Luke as number 1... The speed of advancement is a good point but we can't know if he could keep up with the pace. Besides, we know that he got an accelarated training with basics. Still, in the last movie he was nowhere near the most powerful force user.

 

Also, that thing about Luke trying to prevent Sidious' lightning from killing him has not been in any canon material.

 

Prime Yoda, Mace, Palpatine, Vader, Kenobi and Dooku are all more powerful than Luke Skywalker.

 

Luke barely become a jedi knight in the end of the sixth movie and he's never shown anything but lightsaber skills despite there has been a need for greater skills several times in the episode V and VI in his fights with Vader and his confrontation with Palpatine. In an all out power showdown, all the others I mentioned has shown far more greater feats.

Here is the problem with that Lucas said it was canon. Now yes he did so because he knew the people you refer to as fanbois would not buy them, so in terms of wanting "MO MONEY, MO MONEY" he wanted a canon, but it doesn't change the fact that he said it was canon.

Now is his canon one that fits the dictionary definition of the term? No it is not. If it was you would not have needed the Canon rules or the Holocron as managed by Leland Chee. So I suppose from a point of semantics you are correct. HOWEVER Lucasarts did state that as far as they were concerned, unless stated otherwise or contradicted by other sources, that the events in the EU should be considered Canon.

Now this of course creates a MAJOR issue with the fact that people have a subjective view of what = contradiction. Rather than using the actual definition... a person, thing, or situation in which inconsistent elements are present... they go a step further...inconsistency is not enough... for them a contradiction must always be a version of "you said black and that says white." To make matters worse they apply the definition selectively. BUT this is not the readers fault... it's the fault of Lucasarts for creating a system of lore that is, by it's nature, prone to subjectivity and then slapping a term on it that is not applicable, all in the rather mercenary cause of maximizing revenue.

I might be speculating (which we all do in threads like these btw), but you guys give too much weight to a 10 secod duel.

Windu hid from the lightning because that was the best thing he could do. Why do flashy things like catching it with hand or lightsaber when he can do a simple side step and avoid the whole damn thing?

Disengage =/= pushback. He could've had dozens of reasons to fall back, he was even dodging Talzin's strikes. If she was so much better she would've been faster too and hack Windu in pieces.

 

That duel was just too damn short to say it either way, you just see things in it you want to see and vice versa with others.

He hurried to the side. It wasn't some simple side step. Also wouldn't drawing your lightsaber to protect yourself be more beneficial than hoping to effectively evade it if simply blocking it was an option? Also the bold part isn't really true. It's easier to avoid strikes while backing off and making that your focus than it is to avoid an attack after making an attack of your own, which your opponent just evaded, and is now countering you. There could be many reasons why he disengaged but those reasons are all guess work. The facts remain as follows..

Windu is an offensive style duelist. If he wanted to draw her away he could have drew his lightsaber and waited for her to approach. He could have goaded her into attacking him. He didn't do this. He instead charged her. Then she pushed on him, he pushed on her, and then she pushed back. He broke the saber lock and didn't use this time to disengage.

Watch closely. From here he, after it's broken, charges and swings at her again. She parries the attack and then nearly hits him. He dodges the blow and she uses this opportunity to keep attacking. Windu begins to lose ground and as she's getting closer to connecting leaps to a lower floor. He was clearly being pushed back. He tried charging her twice. Once with the saber lock and the second time with a blow. Both times she blocked him. Both times he couldn't push her to even move one foot back.

Why bother to distract someone you are capable of defeating. If you fight to distract someone it usually means you're trying to buy time. This is a perfectly valid strategy when the opponent you're facing is more powerful than yourself. He disengaged, again, right after he engaged. He gave up ground. Again, this is a big deal for someone who is offensive. Even when he charged her he couldn't draw her back one step. She was pushing forward the entire time.

There are a host of reasons...

Even as a warrior born killing is not on the top of his list of things too do in that instance. He is fighting her in the context of other events. Talzin definitely seems to be the type of person where once she has her mind on something you will have to kill her to stop her and she will go had long into fighting you.

So he is dropping back in order for her to be focused on him, while other people get their jobs done, stretching the fight out long enough. To just go balls to the wall against her there would have kept her there, preventing the prisoner from being freed in time and the ritual would have succeeded.

He WANTS her to come towards him because he WANTS her away from the platform with the Occular device. It's called strategy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y207JIwQXcw

Then you also have what Zoltan says. This is the first time they have fought. As such... when you have a completely different goal you re not going to risk a stand up fight where a delay will risk the mission. The MISSION is what is important, not winning the duel, so you use caution so the mission succeeds.

There are a host of reasons...

 

Even as a warrior born killing is not on the top of his list of things too do in that instance. He is fighting her in the context of other events. Talzin definitely seems to be the type of person where once she has her mind on something you will have to kill her to stop her and she will go had long into fighting you.

 

So he is dropping back in order for her to be focused on him, while other people get their jobs done, stretching the fight out long enough. To just go balls to the wall against her there would have kept her there, preventing the prisoner from being freed in time and the ritual would have succeeded.

 

He WANTS her to come towards him because he WANTS her away from the platform with the Occular device. It's called strategy.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y207JIwQXcw

 

Then you also have what Zoltan says. This is the first time they have fought. As such... when you have a completely different goal you re not going to risk a stand up fight where a delay will risk the mission. The MISSION is what is important, not winning the duel, so you use caution so the mission succeeds.

That's speculation. There's many possible speculations one could make. You could also argue that Talzin wasn't taking Windu seriously. How so? Talzin never fought him before. She had no reason to take him seriously. She also didn't bother engaging him in a manner that she specializes in. That would actually be based on fact. Truth is we have seen Windu try to end fights as quickly as possible. She was going to engage regardless. She made that clear by phasing in a blade. After Windu broke the first saber lock he could have backed off there. He didn't. He tried to attack her again which once more didn't even make her move back a step.

These are the facts with zero speculation.

1) Windu is an offensive fighter who has proven in the past that he aims to end fights as quickly as possible.

2) Windu prefers to press the advantage. He's very offensive oriented. So are his students and contemporaries.

3) Windu tried to press the advantage not once but twice.

4) Windu was the first and only one to end up falling back.

5) Windu is a saber specialist who has defeated Sidious

6) Talzin does not specialize in using a sword. It is not her strongest skill-set.

7) Windu took shelter from her attack

There is no reason we should believe that Windu is a match for Talzin. In none of the above facts does Windu display an advantage. You can come up with speculation for this or that but in the end the fact is Windu did not have any edge over Talzin. You can't reasonably make the argument that Windu is more powerful than her or could have taken her in a straight fight. There's no evidence that can lead one to this conclusion logically.

Doesn't anyone remember that Talzin was stomped by Sidious on Dathomir of all places, which is the center of her power? Because that would definitely prove that Palpatine>Windu, as well as Sidious throwing the fight with Mace. In fact, Sidious himself stated that Talzin possesses none of Dooku's skill, someone who is supposed to be on par with Windu in swordsmanship.

As for wether the novelizations of the movies are canon or not, I think this will end the discussion:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/127594/4446194-rg.png

So, in canon, and disregarding the notion that Sidious threw the fight, Mace still won because he was amped, and because he exploited a fear that wasn't Palpatine's to begin with.

Firstly, Sidious did not "stomp" her.

She was weakened from the ritual that returned her to life, and it took both him and Dooku working together to actually overpower her.

What's more, the supposed skill that she lacked was witnessed by Sidious while she possessed someone elses body, and was using a curved hilt that she had never before fought with, hardly an indication of her actual ability.