http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/08/swtor-will-change-endgame-pvp-balance/

"Instead of Expertise being a stat that you're chasing as you're getting better and better PvP gear, all the PvP gear no matter what tier it is will have the same Expertise level. It's just the normal stats that will be getting better as you getting higher in PvP gear."

From http://torwars.com/2012/12/07/torwars-podcast-120-exclusive-interview-with-senior-systems-designer-rob-hinkle/

Not bad, but rolling with 15000 hp against 20000 hp is still not very fun.

That's because people are too cheap or lazy to augment BM gear. That is their own fault.

This is a great change though, and one that I've been asking for since forever.

So....Expertise will do nothing besides give + x% healing to fight trauma?

Not sure if I see the point in keeping it around, then. Unless they make it reduce stun durations, or something....

So....Expertise will do nothing besides give + x% healing to fight trauma?

 

 

Not sure if I see the point in keeping it around, then. Unless they make it reduce stun durations, or something....

That's not how I understand it, unless I misunderstand your question. You will still want PvP gear - with expertise - for PvP. But the different ranks of PvP gear will all have the same amount of expertise on them. The other stats are what will differ.

You still won't want to walk into level 50 pvp with 0 expertise.

That's not how I understand it, unless I misunderstand your question. You will still want PvP gear - with expertise - for PvP. But the different ranks of PvP gear will all have the same amount of expertise on them. The other stats are what will differ.

 

You still won't want to walk into level 50 pvp with 0 expertise.

Only a fool would enter a 50 pvp with 0 Expertise.

After 1.6 goes live, full WH can have the same max Expertise (1390) as full EWH (1390).

So....Expertise will do nothing besides give + x% healing to fight trauma?

 

 

Not sure if I see the point in keeping it around, then. Unless they make it reduce stun durations, or something....

I don't think you know how expertise really works.

And then?

AND THEN?!

i think this is a good change imo. closing the gear gap is never a bad thing, and this is a step toward horizontal progression which imo should be the way PvP progression works

So....Expertise will do nothing besides give + x% healing to fight trauma?

 

 

Not sure if I see the point in keeping it around, then. Unless they make it reduce stun durations, or something....

No- it keeps people from wearing pve gear in pvp and vice versa.

AKA- it prevents you from being able to do operations then run into pvp and smash people to bits with superior stats- while also preventing you from gearing up in pvp gear and being able to skip all the pve progression.

Even with this change. People will still complain about how gear > skill. The complainers will always complain until all gear of all tiers are the same. Then they will complain about game mechanics.

Depends- if gear still gives new players 15k health and 1k dps while a full aug EWH has 22k health and 1.5k dps- then yes, gear will still be making a large difference.

But- apparantly the stats on EWH are marginally better than WH- and WH is quite reasonable to obtain so that is a good step- right now, WH takes a very long time to get and gives about a 15-20% increase in viability- too much over BM.

EWH is supposed to be around 2-3%, which is very reasonable indeed.

We need something to grind for. It's a thing in a MMO. The need to improve your character. if you cannot do it you lose interest.

There must be a gear gap. If everyone was running with the same stats no one would play this game.

The gear gap should be bigger with 1.6 but it won't. I hope they fix it soon.

We need something to grind for. It's a thing in a MMO. The need to improve your character. if you cannot do it you lose interest.

 

There must be a gear gap. If everyone was running with the same stats no one would play this game.

Can you name any multi player online games centered on pvp that have over a million players other than WoW (which is pve centric anyway) that use the gear>skill system?

I can name plenty that don't.

Battlefield, CoD franchise, Halo, League, DOTA, Starcraft, etc...

These games keep their players hooked with maps, balance, fun and variety- not gear. Even WoW's pvp is on a sharp decline.

I'd be willing to bet outside of WoW- the top pvp community is GW2, and they didn't even do many things right in pvp other than the lack of gear.

If you don't like pvp for fun- you won't stay long anyway, you'll leave once you get your gear. It's the people who enjoy pvp who will be your long term players. Regardless- there's so many things to grind other than stat bonuses that are proven that people grind for- pets, mounts, titles, cosmetic gear, etc...

The idea that gear treadmills make games last longer may have held up five years ago- but right now the evidence is showing that's absolutely not the case.

In fact- right now casual games are on the rise, hence why puzzle games and mobile phone games are some of the hottest products right now. Ease of play- you pick up, you play, no hassle involved. BW shot themselves in the foot by making a game to compete with mmos of last decade rather than trying to match current gaming trends.

We need something to grind for. It's a thing in a MMO. The need to improve your character. if you cannot do it you lose interest.

 

There must be a gear gap. If everyone was running with the same stats no one would play this game.

 

The gear gap should be bigger with 1.6 but it won't. I hope they fix it soon.

i agree, and this is what drives the PvE progression in just about any MMO. however, PvP is a horse of a different color.

PvP should be about horizontal progression. Unlocking new armor appearances, ability to customize armor, new weapon skins, color crystals, titles, vehicles, etc. something that says "yeah ive been PvP for a long time" without saying "MY POWER LEVEL IS OVER 9000 AND YOURS ISNT!!!!"

vertical progression in PvP makes the situation way more complicated that it needs to be.

No need to panic yet. Its another one of Biowares 'coming soon' announcements.

The pvp mechanic is just as outdated as the game engine in SWTOR. They need to adopt the approach like in Guild Wars 2, were the grind for better gear has been removed. PvP should be about skill.

With a flux of returning players, this was Biowares opportunity to educate them about the differences between pvp 10-49 and lvl 50 and explain why Expertise is important. Yet again, they haven't and more players who were over powered when they dinged lvl 49 became blunt knives in lvl 50 and are clueless why.

To make matters worse, Bioware introduced a 4th tier of gear, but thankfully with the removal of recruit/battlemaster gears and just have War Hero and Elite War hero, some of the 1on1s should be a lot closer and enjoyable.

In fact- right now casual games are on the rise, hence why puzzle games and mobile phone games are some of the hottest products right now. Ease of play- you pick up, you play, no hassle involved. BW shot themselves in the foot by making a game to compete with mmos of last decade rather than trying to match current gaming trends.

Words with Star Wars: The Old Republic

Angry Star Wars: The Old Republic

Cut the Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic of Goo

Fruit Star Wars: The Old Republic

None of those sound fun.

Can you name any multi player online games centered on pvp that have over a million players other than WoW (which is pve centric anyway) that use the gear>skill system?

 

I can name plenty that don't.

 

Battlefield, CoD franchise, Halo, League, DOTA, Starcraft, etc...

 

These games keep their players hooked with maps, balance, fun and variety- not gear. Even WoW's pvp is on a sharp decline.

 

I'd be willing to bet outside of WoW- the top pvp community is GW2, and they didn't even do many things right in pvp other than the lack of gear.

 

 

If you don't like pvp for fun- you won't stay long anyway, you'll leave once you get your gear. It's the people who enjoy pvp who will be your long term players. Regardless- there's so many things to grind other than stat bonuses that are proven that people grind for- pets, mounts, titles, cosmetic gear, etc...

 

The idea that gear treadmills make games last longer may have held up five years ago- but right now the evidence is showing that's absolutely not the case.

 

In fact- right now casual games are on the rise, hence why puzzle games and mobile phone games are some of the hottest products right now. Ease of play- you pick up, you play, no hassle involved. BW shot themselves in the foot by making a game to compete with mmos of last decade rather than trying to match current gaming trends.

I wouldn't call those games you mentioned (except WoW and GW2) mmo's.

Many people i've known left for GW2 and came back. Not everyone likes the pvp there.

I do not agree on the horizontal progression in pvp. I think it's at the same level as pve. I don't pve at all (well i do dailies). I personally don't care about the "looks", mounts, pets (i delete this bs), color crystals. The titles are ok but i don't display any. But that's just me.

I wouldn't call those games you mentioned (except WoW and GW2) mmo's.

 

Many people i've known left for GW2 and came back. Not everyone likes the pvp there.

.

People didn't leave GW2 because of the lack of gear grind, they left because pvp (not WvW) simply sucked. Either way, Bioware need to address the gear gap. Having custom armour from the cartel store(for example is the way to go) but lets just have 2 tiers of pvp gear instead of the current set up.

So basically just a static PvP multiplier to differentiate PvP from PvE. That's how it should have been from start.

To make things fair they should have had one for PvE too to make sure that avid PvP'ers can't use their BiS PvP gear outside PvP. I don't give a crap about the latter but for the sake of consistency. Seems a bit weird to exclude PvE'ers from PvP but not the other way around.

So basically just a static PvP multiplier to differentiate PvP from PvE. That's how it should have been from start.

 

To make things fair they should have had one for PvE too to make sure that avid PvP'ers can't use their BiS PvP gear outside PvP. I don't give a crap about the latter but for the sake of consistency. Seems a bit weird to exclude PvE'ers from PvP but not the other way around.

PvP gear, except the relics i think, are not BiS for PvE activities.

exclusive PvPers are just as excluded from PvE as PvEers are from PvP. you need to get Campaign gear to compete in PvE. I think I have 3 pieces of Campaign gear, b/c i havent put in the time/effort to get it.

bioware is doing the right thing, finally