I know Deception and Infiltration got a buff, but it still lacks what it needs to be competitive in Hard Mode EC and TFB. The DPS simply is not there.

 

You can take a Training Dummy and Mox and test your DPS out, and it's extremely lacking. You can compare your DPS stats to any other DPS in Mox after a boss fight, and be tailing waaaaay behind. Simply put...it's not viable...still.

 

I have some ideas to make it viable, but this thread is not about that right now. What I want to know is, from any of you...any of you at all...has any of you had any luck with your Deception/Infiltration Spec Assassins/Shadows with HM EC or TFB?

 

If so, how are you specced (Pleae, no Hybrids here, I know what Hybrids are capable of, I want to know Deception and Infiltration only here) and what are you ranking in your MOX?

 

Please...be honest here.

Why in the hell was this removed? This was about classes and specs and how they relate to Operations...not something to just stick in another thread...

Haven't managed to get in a raid as inf spec since 1.4, but during 1.3 I was already viable for a DPS spot so I imagine things have already gotten better. Whilst other classes can certainly do more DPS than a shadow or assassin, we can easily beat the minimum DPS required for any HM boss enrage timer.

 

The main issue with EC HM and shadows was the squishiness, especially on Toth and Zorn, but that hasn't changed much tbh.

OP, pls include your stat makeup from gear, as well as ability priority for maximum force regen.

 

Melée bns: 702

Force: 982

Crit: 33.5%

surge: 78%

 

When you parse data from a boss, be sure to factor your total dmg done in the fight against the bosses full HP. I've found infils dps reading to be spiky. (some really beautiful moments with armor debuffs at 1900 dps, and other moments where you have to slow dps by moving around 1400).

 

Regardless, infiltration, when geared appropriately, and also managing force gain through blackout and force cloak, has more than the needed dps for your role in beating the enrage timer. Also factor infiltration is 100% single target damage.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Andar

I'll have to report back later on that.

 

 

(Updated)

 

 

I never run out of Force...ever since the last patch, force has been a non issue. Thing is, especially on TFB, seems my spec is extremely under par. Have another guild mate with the same issue. Hitting Enrage timers at 25% Health or above. One reported at 35% health.

 

Just seems the other classes can go with the set issued gear without min maxing and do fine, where as a Deception Assassin, we have to really crunch those numbers to be viable.

 

Anyway, being asked to spec as Madness, and am looking for a way out here. Madness is boooooring and would rather not.

 

 

Melee: 517

Force: 729

Crit: 37.7%

Surge: 69.7%

 

This is without stims.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Wraiven

Deception has always been very gear heavy.

 

Its been quite some time since I played as dps(Guild wanted tank) so I cannot say how it fares in TFB

 

Also, I believe deception is more of a PVP spec, specially now with increased damage red.

 

From what I am led to believe, in pvp you can maul outta stealth, reckless+ shock and then assassinate all hitting in the 6k-7k category.

 

If that is not burst I don't know what is

Your stats seem really out of whack?

 

What are you running for gear?

 

Take a look at this, I'm not saying that this is the absolute best stat itemization for an Infiltration shadow, but I do believe it will put you more on track.

 

If you haven't cleared EC SM yet and are still not in full Rakata, TFB is going to be a bit harder in SM.

 

If you are talking HM that's a whole other story

 

Here are the stat priorities without any buffs.

 

Willpower >= Accuracy (110%) > Crit (30%) = Surge (75%) > Power/Force Power

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0460d7d6-10f9-421c-8854-8536509f73a6

Edited October 11, 2012 by Crionos

Your stats seem really out of whack?

 

What are you running for gear?

 

Take a look at this, I'm not saying that this is the absolute best stat itemization for an Infiltration shadow, but I do believe it will put you more on track.

 

If you haven't cleared EC SM yet and are still not in full Rakata, TFB is going to be a bit harder in SM.

 

If you are talking HM that's a whole other story

 

Here are the stat priorities without any buffs.

 

Willpower >= Accuracy (110%) > Crit (30%) = Surge (75%) > Power/Force Power

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0460d7d6-10f9-421c-8854-8536509f73a6

 

I am in all Black Hole/Campaign gear with the exception of my main Hand which is Rakata and my implants/Ears which is also Rakata.

 

Every single last peice of gear I have is fully augmented with Heavy Willpower Low Endurance.

 

So what in the hell am I doing wrong here?

You're not doing anything wrong, you just have the stock gear, it seems. Take a look at the Black Hole Striker boots, and start farming those mods and enhancements to put in other pieces. Just seems like you're missing a bit of power and surge you could definitely benefit from.

 

Also try to get the battlemaster or war hero relics with +113 power on those (just a personal preference of mine, some prefer other relics). Yes, they're PvP pieces, but considered by many to be BiS for PvE as well

 

Personally, i only use 171 accuracy, and kinda go over the surge DR a little bit. around 78.5%

Edited October 11, 2012 by Andar

You're not doing anything wrong, you just have the stock gear, it seems. Take a look at the Black Hole Striker boots, and start farming those mods and enhancements to put in other pieces. Just seems like you're missing a bit of power and surge you could definitely benefit from.

 

Also try to get the battlemaster or war hero relics with +113 power on those (just a personal preference of mine, some prefer other relics). Yes, they're PvP pieces, but considered by many to be BiS for PvE as well

 

Personally, i only use 171 accuracy, and kinda go over the surge DR a little bit. around 78.5%

 

I'll do that. Thanks for the tips. Deception just seems to me to be one of the most difficult specs to put together, and it's a ton of work and time to do so. Hopefully the spec sees some more love in future patches.

 

Appreciate the help, guys...really. Very grateful here.

I would basically drop your crit, increase surge and put any spare points in willpower / power.

 

The percentages I aim for with my DPS gear:

 

Crit: 30-35% fully buffed

Surge: 75-77% fully buffed

Accuracy: 95-98%

 

Crit is less useful for inf/deception due to a number of things: Force Potency, Set Bonus and Force Synergy talent. These three things all increase our crit chance in various places which means raw crit chance on your stat sheet is less important. However, just have a play and see what you prefer.

 

Accuracy also less important: force skills cannot be defended so project and force breach cannot miss. Thats two of your main skills that will automatically hit the target. So, dropping your accuracy 2-5% isn't going to make much difference in terms of DPS, but the spare points can be nice for optimising gear.

I would basically drop your crit, increase surge and put any spare points in willpower / power.

 

The percentages I aim for with my DPS gear:

 

Crit: 30-35% fully buffed

Surge: 75-77% fully buffed

Accuracy: 95-98%

 

Crit is less useful for inf/deception due to a number of things: Force Potency, Set Bonus and Force Synergy talent. These three things all increase our crit chance in various places which means raw crit chance on your stat sheet is less important. However, just have a play and see what you prefer.

 

Accuracy also less important: force skills cannot be defended so project and force breach cannot miss. Thats two of your main skills that will automatically hit the target. So, dropping your accuracy 2-5% isn't going to make much difference in terms of DPS, but the spare points can be nice for optimising gear.

 

I don't know about the acc part. I know Bosses have a 10% chance to dodge when you have 100% Accuracy. SO getting that Acc up to by 10% guarantees you hit every time with your saber attacks. As a Deception, I use my Saber quite often. Is it just really not that important?

I was just trying to work this out - other trees (for instances, my marauder) I can spec into more accuracy if I so desire to, so I can focus more on power / surge. The deception tree has no talent - so keeping 110 special and 100 melee acc means loosing a lot of potential power / surge....

 

Maul and VS are both white damage - and both are 2 of your main attacks, aside from Discharge and shock.

 

So, teh hell to do?

We have an infiltration shadow in our progression group and he does perfectly fine, he even leads our burst team for killing anomalies in second phase of TFB herself. TFB is a tailored excellently for burst specs (anomalies, jealous males, data cores, 10 second burn phases on kephess, etc). He still complains of course but personally I think that's just his way of making us tell him we love him.

If Bioware decides to buff this class again, I think it can be fixed by adjusting the talent "resoursefullness."

 

For starters, reducing the force cost of Lacerate is completley pointless in PvE. I don't PvP, but if it's usefull there, make it a stand alone skill. So many skill were consolidated so there is room for another stand alone skill or just add it to one of the PvP talents.

 

In exchange, either further reduce the cooldown on Over Charge Saber or increase the durration by a few GCDs.

 

That change alone should be enough to bring deception/infilitration within 5% or so of the higher DPS classes

If Bioware decides to buff this class again, I think it can be fixed by adjusting the talent "resoursefullness."

 

For starters, reducing the force cost of Lacerate is completley pointless in PvE. I don't PvP, but if it's usefull there, make it a stand alone skill. So many skill were consolidated so there is room for another stand alone skill or just add it to one of the PvP talents.

 

In exchange, either further reduce the cooldown on Over Charge Saber or increase the durration by a few GCDs.

 

That change alone should be enough to bring deception/infilitration within 5% or so of the higher DPS classes

 

It's not useful in pvp either. IMO change this talent to provide a crit buff based on surging charge stacks, something small like 1- 3% per stack. Thus optimal gear would even more clearly be all power/surge because of the built in crit from skills/recklessness. The extra crit would help dps a lot in between recklessness cooldowns.

I'll have to report back later on that.

 

 

(Updated)

 

 

Melee: 517

Force: 729

Crit: 37.7%

Surge: 69.7%

 

This is without stims.

 

Its pretty simple, You ahve bugger all surge, too much crit and not enough power.

My stats

Melee-693

Force-980

Crit- 31.30%

Surge-78.56%

 

The way I see it is simple.

we get 10% melee crit off the low level balance talent

we get 15% extra on our CS.

 

Power affects 100% of your damage and is well worth stacking out the buggery. I could use another WH relic over the internal damage proc relic but my motivation to play more than barely required is at an all time low.

Well, I managed to play as infiltration spec all last week (normally I tank) and managed to get some decent numbers.

 

I'm now parsing 1530dps on the dummy fully buffed (link) and can get closish to applying that DPS to an actual environment

 

16 Man EC Story Mode (I'm anstalt)

 

8man Karagga's Palace SM

 

I still can't hit the high numbers of guardians and sentinels but I'm more than holding my own. My gear still needs tweaking (need campaign hilt and lower my crit a bit more) and I'm also the raid leader which we've observed as lowering DPS by 50-100dps per fight (all raid leaders in guild have noticed it, as soon as we dont raid it shoots up).