If you're talking about the philosophy of the Sith Code vs. the Jedi Code, then here's my take on them:

The Jedi Code, when misinterpreted by the Jedi Councils throughout Galactic History, seems to point to ALL Jedi being able to suppress their emotions. Unfortunately, that is an unnatural state in humans. We need our emotions to survive. We need our emotions to pull us through in tough times. Life is not all sunshine and flowers. The Jedi are afraid of emotions, it seems. Even positive ones.

The Sith Code, meanwhile, is far more realistic in how the Universe actually works. Life is struggle. You must constantly persevere and prove yourself. To overcome your enemies. To overcome your own weaknesses. To use your emotions instead of locking them away as the Jedi would. The ultimate goal is Freedom.

The Jedi spend all their lives in a futile struggle to suppress their emotions. The Jedi Code is worded in such a way that it's an Absolute. The Original Code was worded in a way that would allow for relationships and love. But even romantic love is forbidden to the Jedi. As stupid as that sounds, they severely restrict or even ban marriage between Jedi.

The Sith use and master their emotions without suppressing them. The really powerful are the ones who have mastered themselves completely, and are truly free in the Force.

the way i see it, if the sith code is a real world philosophy, its probably from some long dead culture, like roman or spartan maybe. in todays society we do not kill off the weak, we protect them. and we don't kill our boss for their job. we set up organizations to keep the peace and have charity's set up to help with worls plites, none of this would happen under the sith code

no, if there was a culture like the siths then they are long dead, and there is probably a very good reason for this

as for the jedi, i think its wrong to say they shut off their emotions. they still have emotions, they just learn to control them. even for us in the real world, its better to make a rational, informed decision, rather than a knee jerked emotional response. that doesn't mean we should be come emotion-less droids, just that we should use our head when we need to think about something.

being able to control your emotion is not the same thing as abandoning it, in fact to abandon your emotion would show you have no control over it. and i think ppl have taken this way off to the extreme, a jedi should just be master of emotion, knowing how to do something while ieeping their emotions in check. completely different to startrek idea of a volcan.

I don't think there really is a right or wrong side.

Ditto.

It's more about perspectives. IMO

The philosophy of the Sith Code is truely and utterly wrong.

Okay, that's an exaggeration. But here's my in depth analysis.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Throughout history, there have been times of peace and times of war. It is probably not possible to avoid war completely, but temporary peace is possible. And more than that it is possible to life in peace inside your country. True, sometimes it is peace because of superior firepower. But peace nontheless.

Maybe this refers to inner peace. I'm truely sorry for everyone who has never experienced inner peace. A situation where you are just happy/content with life as it is. There is more to life than passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Everyone who has gained strenght in any field knows that passion is only a small part of it. Discipline and practice are far more importent. Let's say you want to gain strenght in the most physical sense, because your passion drives you to this. So you go to the gym. After some time, your passion will wear off, but if you still want to gain strength, you have to keep training.

I'd say to "gain strength" in whatever area, 20% is talent, 20% is passion and 60% is training.

Through strength, I gain power.

You normally gain power through manipulation. No matter if you have to manipulate voters or the nobles who should serve you in theory.

Yes, in some situations strength (=competence) will bring you power and in others bloodlines will. But if you are on a quest for power like a Sith, manipulation is the way you should go.

Through power, I gain victory.

In a military sense this is kind of true. Military might will bring you victory if you use it wisely. In politics it's also true sometimes. But no matter what, you have to be smart. An idiot may have a lot of power, but it won't secure his victory if his opponent is a genius.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

This is kinda true. You know, for independence wars and stuff.

But if you win an election, you are normally less free afterwards. You have responsibilities and people will have expectations for you.

And if you win a war, in most cases it doesn't break your chains, but only puts chains on your enemy.

The Force will set me free.

That's a religious statement. Transferring ot to the real world would be difficult, since I don't believe in the Force. Translating it as "God will set me free" seems to change it's meaning completely. (And it won't be allowed to discuss this here.) So I'll just keep it out of this.

The Sith code (even in Star Wars) makes the most sense if you interpret it as a historical document. It was written by former Jedi who wanted to break free from what they experienced as oppression by the Jedi order. The Sith Code describes their struggle, plans and hopes.

The philosophy of most Sith in the TOR era seems to be not much more than: Gain power in every way possible, no matter the cost.

The Force will set me free.

 

That's a religious statement. Transferring ot to the real world would be difficult, since I don't believe in the Force. Translating it as "God will set me free" seems to change it's meaning completely. (And it won't be allowed to discuss this here.) So I'll just keep it out of this.

Yea, one of the very few things that has annoyed me in star wars is the force being like a....well lets just say the G word and how all the force users (especially jedi) believe that 'the force' guides them and all that sort of stuff. (like jeez Yoda I thought you were wise). I just had to say it

Yea, one of the very few things that has annoyed me in star wars is the force being like a....well lets just say the G word and how all the force users (especially jedi) believe that 'the force' guides them and all that sort of stuff. (like jeez Yoda I thought you were wise). I just had to say it

Well, Star Wars does leave enough room for different interpretations of the Force. It can be everything from a passive energy field that mainly reacts to life up to one (or two) intelligent beings. And there are different interpretations of the Force in the Star Wars universe. Different Force religions and philosophies.

So I say: If the Jedi say the Force guids and has a will, it is what they believe about the Force. It might be true, but it might also be false.

The philosophy of the Sith Code is truely and utterly wrong.

 

Okay, that's an exaggeration. But here's my in depth analysis.

 

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

 

Throughout history, there have been times of peace and times of war. It is probably not possible to avoid war completely, but temporary peace is possible. And more than that it is possible to life in peace inside your country. True, sometimes it is peace because of superior firepower. But peace nontheless.

 

Maybe this refers to inner peace. I'm truely sorry for everyone who has never experienced inner peace. A situation where you are just happy/content with life as it is. There is more to life than passion.

 

Through passion, I gain strength.

 

Everyone who has gained strenght in any field knows that passion is only a small part of it. Discipline and practice are far more importent. Let's say you want to gain strenght in the most physical sense, because your passion drives you to this. So you go to the gym. After some time, your passion will wear off, but if you still want to gain strength, you have to keep training.

 

I'd say to "gain strength" in whatever area, 20% is talent, 20% is passion and 60% is training.

 

Through strength, I gain power.

 

You normally gain power through manipulation. No matter if you have to manipulate voters or the nobles who should serve you in theory.

 

Yes, in some situations strength (=competence) will bring you power and in others bloodlines will. But if you are on a quest for power like a Sith, manipulation is the way you should go.

 

Through power, I gain victory.

 

In a military sense this is kind of true. Military might will bring you victory if you use it wisely. In politics it's also true sometimes. But no matter what, you have to be smart. An idiot may have a lot of power, but it won't secure his victory if his opponent is a genius.

 

Through victory, my chains are broken.

 

This is kinda true. You know, for independence wars and stuff.

 

But if you win an election, you are normally less free afterwards. You have responsibilities and people will have expectations for you.

And if you win a war, in most cases it doesn't break your chains, but only puts chains on your enemy.

 

The Force will set me free.

 

That's a religious statement. Transferring ot to the real world would be difficult, since I don't believe in the Force. Translating it as "God will set me free" seems to change it's meaning completely. (And it won't be allowed to discuss this here.) So I'll just keep it out of this.

 

 

The Sith code (even in Star Wars) makes the most sense if you interpret it as a historical document. It was written by former Jedi who wanted to break free from what they experienced as oppression by the Jedi order. The Sith Code describes their struggle, plans and hopes.

 

The philosophy of most Sith in the TOR era seems to be not much more than: Gain power in every way possible, no matter the cost.

so basically the sith code would translate as

peace is a lie, there is only passion - start a fight and get angry

through passion, i gain strength - my anger makes me strong

through strength, i gain victory - if i'm strong i can crush my enemy's

though victory my chains are broken - only when my enemy's are gone, can i stop fighting

the force will set me free - god is on my side

that's the way i read it, and it kinda contradicts itself. the first line basically says they need war, but the fourth line says when all the enemy's are dead they can stop fighting, but if this happens they will be at peace, and peace is a lie so the code is broken maybe it means when all external enemy's are gone they will finish off each other till there is only one sith left. that sounds like the sort of culture that will destroy its self so the sith code is not a very good way to live

the sith code may work for a barbaric non-civilized culture. but considering the sith are sposed to be quite an intelligent enlightened race, it does seem strange they use such an archaic system to live by. but anyway it works well with the whole good v evil thing but it really doesn't fit into modern life.

*edit* didn't really mean to quote there, i pressed quote instead of reply and didn't really notice:o nvm, your was such a great post it deserves another showing

Well, Star Wars does leave enough room for different interpretations of the Force. It can be everything from a passive energy field that mainly reacts to life up to one (or two) intelligent beings. And there are different interpretations of the Force in the Star Wars universe. Different Force religions and philosophies.

 

So I say: If the Jedi say the Force guids and has a will, it is what they believe about the Force. It might be true, but it might also be false.

GL (aka word of God) has spoken that the Jedi philosophy and code in the movies is the closest to the reality of the Force and most accurate. Its no debate, no matter how much people argue.

GL (aka word of God) has spoken that the Jedi philosophy and code in the movies is the closest to the reality of the Force and most accurate. Its no debate, no matter how much people argue.

Yes, but in-universe people don't know what GL said. So even if I know that the Jedi are right, I can very well understand why others disagree with them.

Tharan Cedrax (Jedi consular companion) is an A-Force-ist or at least very skeptical. I know that he is wrong, but I understand that from his point of view the Force isn't as obvious as it is for us. So I could argue from his perspective/explain why he doesn't believe in the Force.

the sith code my work for a barbaric on-civilized culture. but considering the sith are sposed to be quite an intelligent enlightened race, it does seem strange they use such an archaic system to live by. but anyway it works well with the whole good v evil thing but it really doesn't fit into modern life.

 

*edit* didn't really mean to quote there, i pressed quote instead of reply and didn't really notice:o nvm, your was such a great post it deserves another showing

You honor me. *bow*

As I said, the Sith Code probably makes the most sense when read from the perspective of the Dark Jedi who founded the Sith:

Peace is a lie, there is only passion. - the Jedi tell us there is peace, but we feel passion.

Through passion, I gain strength. - Let us use our passions, we can become much stronger.

Through strength, I gain power. - When we are strong enough, we can challange the Jedi.

Through power, I gain victory. - Finally we will crush the Jedi.

Through victory, my chains are broken. - After the Jedi are destroyed, we will be free.

The Force shall set me free. - The Dark Side leads to freedom.

Note that their passion was dark science. The wanted to use the dark side to twist life to their will and creaty monsters that serve them.

passion = dark science

strength = strong monsters we create

power = these monsters serve us so we are powerful

It didn't work out that well, since they lost and were exiled. But they kept that code and new sith interpreted it at their whim.

Again, this is not that different in our world. To really understand religious and philosophical literature (let's say the Bible or Plato), you should also look at it's historical context. It makes things a lot easier to understand.

The Jedi code is close to Buddhism except for the slicing off of body arts with glowing swords. They dont deny emotions, they just lets them flow through them. Emotions are reactions to fear. I find this is true most angry is caused by fear of some sort.

The sith code- I'm pretty sure he looked to the Nazis for this. They turned around a lot sayings and words. They used the word fanatical to describe a positive character trait. They created similar slogans, they murdered the weak sick and the insane.

Depends on how you look at it, for me it seems a lot like the Chinese Open hand/Closed Fist martial Arts philosophy. One side (Open Hand) fights to protect the weak and better ones self through meditation/inner peace. While the other side (Closed Fist) take power by any means required, even if it means stepping on a few weaker peoples necks.

The Jedi philosophy and code are a lot like a certain book we all know about, looks a bit like this [+]. It would never work, sounds like the coding of a droid more than a code for organics.

The Sith code is taken out of context too IMO, just because it is written in a harsh tone.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion:- There is never a "peace", right now there is a war going on somewhere. The will to fight to keep loved ones safe is what drives them to fight. (Even if that loved one is themselves)

Through passion, I gain strength.:- How many times have you heard fighters say they used their pain and anger to fuel their punches? The Sith don't hide from feeling, they use them. (There are extremes of course)

Through strength, I gain power.:- Ahhh Power, how can one hold power if one has no strength? That peace up there is only there because of the power.

Through power, I gain victory:- Once the power and strength has been proven, most will fall into line. Many battles in the Middle Ages were settled just by showing the Strength, power and passion of your army...It is indeed a powerful thing.

Through victory, my chains are broken:- Good old Victory, who doesn't love winning? Someone at work pushing you around...Defeat them...Make them suffer...Now you are free from the fear they cause you... You are the master now...Feels good huh....

The Force shall free me:- The Force gives you the strength to free yourself...That makes it a tool, and tools are made to be used. Use the Force as you see fit and remake the world in your image MWHAHAHAHAHA!

This has been a public broadcast from your local Sith Lord, Darth Tyrillar.

I don't think there really is a right or wrong side.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

The Jedi code is close to Buddhism except for the slicing off of body arts with glowing swords. They dont deny emotions, they just lets them flow through them. Emotions are reactions to fear. I find this is true most angry is caused by fear of some sort.

 

The sith code- I'm pretty sure he looked to the Nazis for this. They turned around a lot sayings and words. They used the word fanatical to describe a positive character trait. They created similar slogans, they murdered the weak sick and the insane.

The Jedi certainly seem to think that emotions are reactions to fear, but they're wrong. Fear is a singular emotion, and it is quite useful. Without it, you wouldn't know not to touch a hot stove. It's the fear of consequences that makes you consider your decisions carefully.

Aside from fear, there are numerous other emotions. Amusement, anger, frustration, sorrow, happiness, love. These are emotions which run the gamut of human experience, but the Jedi make no distinction between "emotion" and "bad thing that we say leads to the Dark Side".

Anger doesn't have to be caused by fear, either. There is also righteous anger, the natural reaction to seeing people wronged or abused. When anger gets out of control, it becomes rage, which is commonly referred to as "seeing red". This is when people do reckless things, and get out of hand. However, most people can keep a good handle on their anger, and it can fuel determination to fight evil.

The Jedi would be far more effective and powerful if they used their emotions properly, instead of trying to get rid of them by seeking a "Buddhist" state of nothingness, that void of emotion which the Jedi seem to encourage (there is emotion - there is peace).

Yes, but in-universe people don't know what GL said. So even if I know that the Jedi are right, I can very well understand why others disagree with them.

 

Tharan Cedrax (Jedi consular companion) is an A-Force-ist or at least very skeptical. I know that he is wrong, but I understand that from his point of view the Force isn't as obvious as it is for us. So I could argue from his perspective/explain why he doesn't believe in the Force.

Indeed. Both philosophies prove fruitful, in-universe, in their own way. Otherwise Sith would have gone extinct a long time, and the Jedi would fade out of the greater picture, being reduced to secluded communities and wandering monks.

I kind of admit that, if I were an in-universe Force-sensitive, the Sith philosophy would hold much interest to me. In my experience, strong, negative emotion can greatly help one advance. Both within society, and in self-improvement.

The Jedi would be far more effective and powerful if they used their emotions properly, instead of trying to get rid of them by seeking a "Buddhist" state of nothingness, that void of emotion which the Jedi seem to encourage (there is emotion - there is peace).

But that would advance single-minded mindsets and personality deformation. OK for soldiers/law enforcement. Not OK for people who are in position to start and stop wars with a single word.

Those who can influence the greater picture most must see the greater picture at its fullest. Otherwise, their influence does more harm than good.

However, I do prefer the Old code to the new. "Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge." You accept and acknowledge something, yet you do not let it affect your judgement. You accept a flaw, yet seek improvement. New code reeks of absolutes. Dumbed down version of the Old code.

You know, both codes are equally as ludicrous, one tells us not to face our emotions, thus leaving someone open to getting hit like a freight train when someone receives high intensity emotions, the other code tells us to focus on all emotions and rely on it entirely when dealing with any given situation.

Hardly good advice.

You know, both codes are equally as ludicrous, one tells us not to face our emotions, thus leaving someone open to getting hit like a freight train when someone receives high intensity emotions, the other code tells us to focus on all emotions and rely on it entirely when dealing with any given situation.

 

Hardly good advice.

Actually no, it's not the ludicrous part of the Jedi code. The Jedi code does teach to face passions. It teaches not to be affected by them. At least the old code was about that. It's the new code that's atrocious. It supposedly supports the same notions, but it deals in absolutes more than SIth do and requires more explanation/interpretation than law. Why they needed to change that, I can't fathom. The fact that people like Walsh zealously swear by it speaks volumes.

As far as Sith go, it's not the Code itself, but rather the Sith religion that's ludicrous. If the Sith Code is interpreted in a more introverted fashion - to push one to overcome one's weakness, to never get caught in the feeling of peace and satisfaction, to develop strength that breaks inner barriers, etc, etc. Too bad a lot of Sith see it as a directive for oppression and conquest, seeing the "victory" in the code as a physical one over an enemy without, and not a spiritual one over a weakness within. Granted, many Sith of the Empire are more practical than zealous and don't really follow the dominant extremist interpretation of it, and that's why, in my opinion, the Empire is still standing.

Actually no, it's not the ludicrous part of the Jedi code. The Jedi code does teach to face passions. It teaches not to be affected by them. At least the old code was about that. It's the new code that's atrocious. It supposedly supports the same notions, but it deals in absolutes more than SIth do and requires more explanation/interpretation than law. Why they needed to change that, I can't fathom. The fact that people like Walsh zealously swear by it speaks volumes.

 

As far as Sith go, it's not the Code itself, but rather the Sith religion that's ludicrous. Granted, many Sith of the Empire are more practical than zealous and don't really follow the dominant extremist interpretation of it, and that's why, in my opinion, the Empire is still standing.

I was talking about the codes themselves, nothing more, both are frankly idiotic.

The code of the Sith and Odan-Urr's Jedi code, both are bad, really bad.

Also, Walsh hasn't been on these boards for months on end, as far as I know.

EDIT: Just checked, it's been nearly a year since his last post.

I was talking about the codes themselves, nothing more, both are frankly idiotic.

 

The code of the Sith and Odan-Urr's Jedi code, both are bad, really bad.

 

Also, Walsh hasn't been on these boards for months on end, as far as I know.

I suppose I can agree with that. But, in terms of the Sith Code, it's more a matter of interpretation, I believe.

I suppose I can agree with that. But, in terms of the Sith Code, it's more a matter of interpretation, I believe.

The Sith code can be interpreted many ways, but I hardly think 'beat the **** out of people with your fury' can be taken any other way.

The Sith code can be interpreted many ways, but I hardly think 'beat the **** out of people with your fury' can be taken any other way.

I'm thinking of a more introspective way to interpret it. Don't get complacent, don't lose your fire, learn to focus your passions to break your internal barriers, push yourself to improve constantly, etc, etc.

If the Jedi Code deals more with morality and general outlook, the Sith Code deals more with direction for one's action and growth. I really don't think they're as mutually exclusive as some people would believe.

Put all the homicidal craziness aside, and think about the Philosophy for a second. It's probably based off of a real philosophical teaching anyway. Does denying your emotions make you weak?

Sith Philosophy has little to do with emotions per se.Emotion's are just a way to channel/use the dark side of the force.

Sith philosophy is social darwinism,extreme individualism,ect...